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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? (16448 Views)
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Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by DoctorAlien(m): 9:50pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
easymancfc: evna means pebble found in river beds and beaches. Kepha means rock or stone! Stop reading catholic forums. |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by easymancfc(m): 9:54pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
Simon Magnus is New... I used to hear about emperor Constantine but this Simon Magnus story is really cracking me up... People talk about Constantine but the Church had a Pope before Constantine came into the Picture when he stopped the persecutions and Legalized Christianity.... Constantine became Emperor in 306 AD and he legalized Christianity within that time... HERE IS A LIST OF EARLY CHRISTIAN QUOTES CONCERNING THE PAPACY 106 YEARS BEFORE CONSTANTINE CAME IN.. and ALL OF THEM CAN BE VERIFIED HISTORICALLY IF YOU VISIT ACCURATE HISTORICAL SITES Ignatius "Not as Peter and Paul did, do I command you [Romans]. They were apostles, and I am a convict" (Epistle to the Romans 4:3 [A.D. 110]). Dionysius "You [Pope Soter] have also, by your very admonition, brought together the planting that was made by Peter and Paul at Rome and at Corinth; for both of them alike planted in our Corinth and taught us; and both alike, teaching similarly in Italy, suffered martyrdom at the same time" (Epistle to Pope Soter of Rome [A.D. 166], in Eusebius, History of the Church 2:25: ![]() Irenaeus "Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church" (Against Heresies, 3:1:1 [A.D. 189]). Irenaeus "The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome], they handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus. Paul makes mention of this Linus in the epistle to Timothy [2 Tim. 4:21]" (ibid., 3:3:3). Irenaeus "But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall . . . [point] out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (ibid., 3:3:2). Clement of Alexandria "The circumstances which occasioned . . . [the writing] of Mark were these: When Peter preached the Word publicly at Rome and declared the gospel by the Spirit, many who were present requested that Mark, who had been a long time his follower and who remembered his sayings, should write down what had been proclaimed" (Sketches [A.D. 190], in a fragment from Eusebius, History of the Church, 6:14:1). Gaius "It is recorded that Paul was beheaded in Rome itself and Peter, likewise, was crucified, during the reign [of the Emperor Nero]. The account is confirmed by the names of Peter and Paul over the cemeteries there, which remain to the present time. And it is confirmed also by a stalwart man of the Church, Gaius by name, who lived in the time of Zephyrinus, bishop of Rome" (Disputation with Proclus [A.D. 198] in Eusebius, History of the Church 2:25:5). Tertullian "But if you are near Italy, you have Rome, where authority is at hand for us too. What a happy church that is, on which the apostles poured out their whole doctrine with their blood, where Peter had a passion like that of the Lord, where Paul was crowned with the death of John [the Baptist, by being beheaded]" (De Prescriptione 36 [A.D. 200]). 1 Like |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by easymancfc(m): 9:57pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: You said Petros means small stones, What Is a pebble? like I have said earlier, kepha is translated to mean rock not stone... and Mathew would have emphasized that he he meant Peter was a small stone... A rock is indeed a stone but kepha doesn't have size distinction. STOP READING ANTICATHOLIC FORUMS AND SITES 2 Likes |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:07pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
easymancfc: Petros means detachable, movable stone, as opposed to petra, which is an immovable rock. Petra is the rock which Jesus referred to when He was talking about the wise man that built on a rock. |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:12pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
easymancfc, Please browse other sites apart from your catholic forums. Kephas is translated stones. |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by easymancfc(m): 10:16pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: that argument has already been discussed... you are just going back and forth... Rock is a thing and it has a Feminine name in Greek called Petra, but while using it for a man' s name (Simon bar Jonah ), it had to be made masculine which is Petros, Jesus would not want to call Paul, Paulina or Philip, Philipa if their root word was Feminine, he or any new testament writer would have used the masculine form... in the Aramaic both Petros and Petra are both replaced with Kepha, in the Greek itself there is another word for small stone which Mathew could have used for clarity and to enforce that Peter was just a small stone... It's LITHOS 2 Likes |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by easymancfc(m): 10:19pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: I do, and they say same thing... Kepha is translated as Rock first of all before Stone, and there's no distinction in the size of the stone with Kepha, So your small stone theory doesn't follow..... |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:22pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
easymancfc: You assume Kepha is translated only "immovable rock." This is not true. Kepha means both immovable rock and stone(boulder perhaps). |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:26pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
easymancfc: The fact that kepha is translated "stone" punctures your argument about Matt. 16:18. We all know what a stone is. |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by easymancfc(m): 10:27pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: I don't assume, I know Kepha can be both, but in the context of Mathew 16 up verse 19... it does not follow that Jesus would be bringing Peter down, after praising his response to his question and Giving him the keys to the Kingdom... that logic is inconsistent, not to talk about etymology of the words.. |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:29pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
easymancfc: How is referring to Peter as a stone bringing him down? How about Jesus calls Peter Satan only a few verses after the verse you claim establishes Peter as the foundation of the church? |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by easymancfc(m): 10:33pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: Wrong again... Like I said the word index for Rock and Peter in the Aramaic is both Kepha so I don't know what you are puncturing it is literally according to Jesus in his native Aramaic you are "Kepha" and on this "Kepha" I will build my Church. it is the Greek translation that word play of petros and petra come in.... so I don't know what you are puncturing 1 Like |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:36pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
Another teaching the Roman Catholic Church puts forward is the teaching that there has been an unbroken line of Popes since Peter. But there is a problem with this teaching also. First, no Christians for FOUR CENTURIES after the time of Christ believed that Peter was the leader of the church. This teaching wasn't accepted until around A.D.445 during the reign of Pope Leo I. It was only during this time that the Catholic Church needed to find some Biblical support for Papal supremacy. The other problem with this teaching of an unbroken line is that in A.D.1045, Pope Benedict IX was ran out of office because of his unworthiness, with Silvester III taking his place. When Benedict IX returned, he sold the Papal throne to Gregory VI, but still refused to give up his own claim to the throne. So at this time, all three men claimed to be the legitimate Pope! Then in 1046, the German Emperor Henry III settled it by deposing all three Popes and appointing a fourth, Clement II. LOL. 1 Like |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by easymancfc(m): 10:36pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: Small stone ![]() Peter knew he was rebuking him because of what he said, here he is praising Peter's confession and giving him the keys.. |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by easymancfc(m): 10:45pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: Your first Premise is wrong because from my earlier post I show what the early Christians believed from 110 AD to 200 AD, from IGNATIUS TO TERTULLIAN, LOOK IT UP... YOUR SECOND PREMISE IF IT'S INFACT ACCURATE DOESN'T ALSO DO ANYTHING, THE PAPACY IS AN OFFICE AND DOESN'T BELONG TO ONE MAN.... If there indeed was a crisis at the time (which I will look into) ALL HAVE A CLAIM IF THEY ARE VALIDLY ORDAINED BISHOPS, AND IT IS THE CHURCH'S RESPONSIBILITY TO SETTLE SUCH DISAGREEMENTS, IF A CHRISTIAN GOVERNOR IS THERE, THEN FINE, IF NOT THE CHURCH AS A WHOLE WOULD SETTLE IT... |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:51pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
easymancfc: I know how good the Roman catholic church is at forging "letters from church fathers". So, I'll pass. It's funny that since after 1046 AD, Roman catholic popes have been succeeding a pope appointed by a German emperor. LOL. 1 Like |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by easymancfc(m): 11:00pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: Like I said, all are historically accurate and have been verified and attested to Also by historical sources and even top protestant scholars so I don't care about what you think, because you have no historical pedigree, so I will go with the experts Secondly like I said even if that Pope was appointed by a German king or whatever, what matters is He has been validly ordained and can trace his line of ordination back to the apostles... you didn't give any citation for that story so until I know what happened, .. provide historically accurate citations so I can look it up.. One thing you should know, the Pope doesn't fall from heaven, He is appointed from among the Bishops of the Church provided they are validly ordained... So whoever was chosen to become Pope,if he has valid ordination and the Church accepts him, thats all, he gets the authority... |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by DoctorAlien(m): 11:32pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
From wikipedia Benedict was the son of Alberic III, Count of Tusculum, and was a nephew of Pope Benedict VIII and Pope John XIX. He was also a grandnephew of Pope John XII. His father obtained the Papal chair for him by bribing the Romans. Meanwhile Benedict IX was the 145th in the line of popes. They were indeed succeeding Peter. |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by easymancfc(m): 11:44pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: Corrupt Popes or People taking the office doesn't devalue the office or makes it null, So that fact doesn't mean the papacy never existed or that Peter was never Bishop of Rome... Judas was an apostle, even though he betrayed Jesus... the Presidency of Nigeria is still the presidency of Nigeria even if it is being occupied by an Armed Robber, it is still Nigeria's Presidency.. the office is not devalued by the Person 1 Like |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by DoctorAlien(m): 11:57pm On Apr 06, 2017 |
easymancfc: Where did Peter acknowledge that he was a pope? Or are you lying against Peter? |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by DoctorAlien(m): 12:01am On Apr 07, 2017 |
In Galatians 2 we find Paul confirming that he was the apostle to take the gospel to the Gentile world, while Peter was the apostle charged with taking the gospel to the Jews. And Paul states in verse 9 that it was James, Cephas (Peter) and John who ALL "SEEMED" to be pillars of the church. Making no distinction between them whatsoever. What about the great church meeting in Acts 15? Did Peter stand out as the leader in this great meeting? No, Peter did speak, but if you read the whole of that meeting, you will see that in fact James seemed to be the presiding elder, as he was the one who gave the final decision on the question of circumcision (see Acts 15:19). 1 Like |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by easymancfc(m): 12:07am On Apr 07, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:Going around in circles again... that was the beginning of the whole discussion with you... Where in the Bible does it say Bible that Peter has to acknowledge himself as Pope for him to be Pope, The name might not have been established but Peter clearly had a primacy in the early Church... |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by DoctorAlien(m): 12:12am On Apr 07, 2017 |
easymancfc: Where does Peter acknowledge this primacy? 1 Like |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by Syncan(m): 7:33am On Apr 07, 2017 |
easymancfc: It's not easy my brother, that's how one could begin to imagine what Jesus felt like while dealing with the Jews. |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by Ubenedictus(m): 7:46am On Apr 07, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:Protestants have the worst view of theology. The fact that Jesus is rock doesn't prevent him from making another rock. Infact Jesus also say in revelation that he has the keys yet in matthew he clearly says he gives it to Peter, Jesus calls himself Good sherperd and tell peter to do the work of a sherpherd ie tend the sheep, he is the rock that is why he could make peter the rock and call him cephas. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by Ubenedictus(m): 7:47am On Apr 07, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:IN gal paul says peter was in antioch, are u aware dat isnt in acts? |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:16am On Apr 07, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:The same reason that would make him leave judea and go to antioch. 1 Like |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:38am On Apr 07, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:sorry dear Strong's Concordance Képhas: "a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter Original Word: Κηφᾶς, ᾶ, ὁ Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Transliteration: Képhas Phonetic Spelling: (kay-fas') Short Definition: Cephas Definition: Cephas (Aramaic for rock), the new name given to Simon Peter, the apostle. NAS Exhaustive Concordance Word Origin of Aramaic origin Definition "a rock," Cephas, a name given to the apostle Peter NASB Translation Cephas (9). biblehub.com/greek/2786.htm 1 Like |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:41am On Apr 07, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:see your protestant bible John 1:42 New International Version (NIV) 42 And he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter[a]) . Footnotes: a. John 1:42 Cephas (Aramaic) and Peter (Greek) both mean rock EXB Then Andrew took Simon to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas.” (“Cephas” means “Peter.”) [C Both Aramaic Cephas and Greek Petros mean “rock.”] |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by luckyCO(m): 9:55am On Apr 07, 2017 |
Syncan: Am not diverting the attention am only pointing to you the reason we are discussing, I dont discuss to argue or destroy someone, I discuss to share my line of thought. And we are gradually shifting ground the reason why we are discussing. Now let me stick to the reason why we discuss God has converted His blessings into spiritual dimension for safe keeping( Late Rev Fr Njoku Upper Room Ministry and I agree with him). Since God has done that,it is imperative to look for the things of God from spiritual/revelational point of view. Matt 16:17-18, I build my church on peter(Physical) Eph 5:23, Christ is the Head of the Church(Spiritual). Colosian 1:18 Christ is the Head of the body, the Church(spiritual). The Church here has no physical address, has no physical headquarter, no physical head but everything here is purely spiritual such that devil wont spoil it again as he did in the Garden of Eden hence Christ our Last Adam(1 Cor 15:45). If you check this with divine revelation you will understand first God does not keep his salvation in the physical temple or person since Christ came else devil would have destroyed it. More emphasis. Take for instance in Gal 2:11-12, if the church is built upon peter, devil would have accused him and destroy the church again upon what Jesus has suffered. Am not distorting your reasoning but sharing a line of thought should incase you might need it later. I believe the church of Christ is already one(spiritual not physical as in name of church and all that), we have different Gospels in the land. I believe what these Gospels are doing is sorting children of promise to that of the bond woman. However, how I know the true Gospel is; claim anything, believe anything,say anything but what you are saying,believing and claiming must lead me(the hearer) to Christ straight and help me look at his face and become more like him. |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by luckyCO(m): 11:23am On Apr 07, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: I appreciate studying the bible via greek/hebrew or other translation to get the better understanding of a verse but also Holy Spirit is the one that decodes the meaning of every scripture such that we will go closer to Christ. The main issue here is not literally rock or peter else we concentrate on shadows leaving the substance. Christ is pointing out that there is something in peter that has something to do about him( The knowledge about what He is and what has come to do and in that revelation he is building His church which is his body. The church is yet to be finished, once the church is finished he stands up and come to rule there) just as in the case of the temple. |
Re: Is Roman Catholism A False Gospel? by luckyCO(m): 11:44am On Apr 07, 2017 |
easymancfc: I sincerely hope you understand the meaning all the verses quotes you made because if you do you would not use it to defend Pope rather magnify Christ. After the Pentecost where the Holy Ghost of adoption was release unto all that believe, you will see that peter was not heading Apostle anymore since the head of the Christians is the Holy Ghost the Spirit of Christ and was going about doing the work of Apostle to the Jews which Christ has handed over to him the reason for his reward in the millennium. Apostles are called primarily then secondarily the prophets, thirdly the Evangelist, fourthly the Pastors and teachers(1 Cor 12:28 , Eph 4:11-13). Apostles, I mean all the apostles lay the foundational teaching of the spiritual church we have today and they can be found in the bible. However if studying, praising and appreciating Peter ( As catholics have everywhere) makes you to look Christ instead of taking him a brother in the Lord, then that is you but not for me. 1 Like |
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