tdayof:


Ahhh. It's better they just purchase the Tucano at high price than we getting news of missing 600M USD o. Half bread is better than none


The CAS is a very smart man. Let wait for news update to reverify the price tag.

patches689:
Henry120 is simply butthurt because, when they found their Tucano, it ended up costing about as much as a Gripen

how did you do this?

@patches how did you create that cartoon? i would like to know how to do it.

MiddleDimension:
@patches how did you create that cartoon? i would like to know how to do it.

Used an open source program called Inkscape.

The clouds are blurred out shapes and the the font is deliberately deformed as if it was written by a kid (agububu).

GOC 7 Div, Nigerian Army visits troops in the bush

Nigerian Police personnel deployed in Somalia

A-Darter SRAAM approaches it's target(Skua target drone) after some serious manoeuvring then boom!

MikeCZA:
A-Darter SRAAM approaches it's target(Skua target drone) after some serious manoeuvring then boom!

Poor Skua, she's was designed for doom

Is it recent?

Nigeria COIN

Nigerian Army 155m Bofors Howitzer

Nigerian Army D-30 122mm Howitzer

GreenandGold:


Used an open source program called Inkscape.

The clouds are blurred out shapes and the the font is deliberately deformed as if it was written by a kid (agububu).

can i download it?

Our fixation with the US is Mind boggling

GreenandGold:
I honestly wonder why Nigeria and Kenya had to suckup to the US just to buy the Air Tractor and Tucano. Couldn't you have gone East for something better like attack helis or combat trainer jets.

Why beg so much to pay so much. It's rather humiliating.

MiddleDimension:
can i download it?

Here. It's almost 60Mb

https://inkscape.org/en/download/windows/

Check if your system is 32 or 64bit then download accordingly
.

GreenandGold:
I honestly wonder why Nigeria and Kenya had to suckup to the US just to buy the Air Tractor and Tucano. Couldn't you have gone East for something better like attack helis or combat trainer jets.

Why beg so much to pay so much. It's rather humiliating.

What combat trainer jets that are already in the battlefield and converted to attack roles with mordern munition and avionics similar to the western.....
A truly dedicated gunship is much more expensive, a chinese Z-10 is $17Mil a pop, same price for russian Mi-28.......
Besides the issue of price, the light attack craft also come with the advantage of ISR capability and endurance, the aircraft could spend alot of hours high up in the sky out of visual range looking for enemy targets.. and if it finds them, it double as attack craft so no need to call other air-strike..


Besides, Most countries fighting terrorism in M.East AKA terrorism central Command eigther already have or are currently in the proces of acquiring light attack aircraft for COIN,

AFghan Airforce has orderd 20 A-29
Lebanon has ordered 6 Tucanos for $462M ..... although the deal also include 2,000 APKWS

The deal is worth an estimated $462 million, and includes the sale of 2,000 Advanced Precision Kill Weapon Systems (APKWS) – a laser-guided rocket produced by BAE Systems. Other beneficiaries would include Terma North America and L-3 Communications.

“This proposed sale serves US national, economic and security interests by providing Lebanon with airborne capabilities needed to maintain internal security, enforce United Nation’s security council resolutions 1559 and 1701, and counter terrorist threats,” the notice says.

The potential sale comes as the US government approves another potential deal with Lebanon for an undisclosed number of Lockheed Martin AGM-114 Hellfire II missiles. That sales is worth an estimated $146 million.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/us-approves-possible-462m-a-29-super-tucano-sale-to-413350/

Jordan wants to upgrade its AT-802 to archangel standards

Before the UAE ordered the Archangel, the country had been operating 24 armed Air Tractor AT-802 border patrol (BP) aircraft that had also been converted by Iomax. Despite sharing a similar appearance to the AT-802, the Archangel uses a slightly different airframe supplied by Thrush Aircraft instead.

Six of those AT-802 aircraft – the first to be converted by Iomax in Orlando, Florida – are now with Jordan, which is interested in upgrading the AT-802's weapon systems to the Archangel standard.

The Archangel aircraft has six dual-weapon hard points, three on each wing, that can carry 1,000lbs each including a variety of weapon systems and pods. At IDEX, the UAE aircraft included two Hellfire missiles, two CIRIT quad-pack launcher systems (QPLS), and two mock laser-guided GBU-58 Paveway II bombs.

An interesting addition to each wing's outboard weapon pylons was two Terma Modular Aircraft Survivability Equipment (MASE) pods, which provides 360 degree coverage against man-portable air defence (MANPAD) weapons.

Twenty-four pairs of MASE pods have been acquired by the UAE, providing an expedited self-protection capability for the Archangel. A future upgrade could see a fully-integrated self-protection suite fitted, freeing up the two outer stations for additional weapon stores.

Expanding more on how the UAE pilots use the aircraft on operations, Toole said that a favoured tactic is to fly night operations at medium altitude, where the aircraft is virtually invisible to those on the ground.

Pilots will then deploy weapon systems from altitude to strike enemy positions. The inertial-guided CIRIT – made by Turkish company Roketsan – can be fired out to targets several kilometres away and in its terminal phase is guided by a semi-active laser, similar to the Hellfire. https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/special-operations/idex-2017-uae-eyes-additional-archangels/

UAE took its last delivery of its 24th archangel last month, it had ordered them in 2015, They now plan to add 12 More.. This is in addition to 48 AT-*)@ UAE had already taken delivery of although they have given them to its allies- 6 to jordan, 12 to egypt, others were given to Lybia

After successful deployment to Yemen and other regional hotspots, the United Arab Emirates is expected to place even more orders for the US-built Iomax 'Archangel' counter-insurgency aircraft.

The penultimate aircraft from a 24-aircraft order placed two years ago was on display at this year's IDEX in Abu Dhabi, with the final aircraft expected to be delivered to the UAE next month from the company's North Carolina plant.

A total of 12 additional aircraft – based on the Thrush 710P agricultural aircraft – could be ordered soon to bolster the Archangel fleet, according to Jim Toole, Iomax's chief technology officer. https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/special-operations/idex-2017-uae-eyes-additional-archangels/

In addition to the 12 At-802 Egypt was given by UAE, egypt wants to upgrage them to archangel standards, they also plan to order 10 arcangels....

Now, Doesnt egypt have a mixture of most of the mordern fighters and attack helos, drones already?? from f-16, rafale, Mig-21s, Mig-35s,..... they also have advance trainers like Alpha jet, L-59s...to gunships such as Mi-8,Apache, Ka-52, black hawks......

Why would a military with such an enviable arsenal be looking to use cheap light attack aircrafts for its day to day COIN operations instead of its expensive firepower

Meet 38-year-old Nigerian, Lola Odujinrin. The first African to fly around the world solo. Ranking as the 115th person in the world to make this record.

https://www.google.com.ng/search?site=&source=hp&ei=QuXtWNyzHcGsUofYmcgJ&q=Nigerian+Pilot+Completes+Historic+Expedition+But+Why+Is+This+Not+On+All+Major+Outlets+Yet%3F&oq=Nigerian+Pilot+Completes+Historic+Expedition+But+Why+Is+This+Not+On+All+Major+Outlets+Yet%3F&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.12...5149.5149.0.6634.3.2.1.0.0.0.306.306.3-1.1.0....0...1c.2.64.mobile-gws-hp..1.1.40.3..35i39k1.CFd9Z9vTli0

Patented:
Our fixation with the US is Mind boggling

Maybe it's a political move on your side to align Nigeria with the US for that ever elusive one African UN Security Council permanent seat.

Henry240:
Meet 38-year-old Nigerian, Lola Odujinrin. The first African to fly around the world solo. Ranking as the 115th person in the world to make this record.

https://www.google.com.ng/search?site=&source=hp&ei=QuXtWNyzHcGsUofYmcgJ&q=Nigerian+Pilot+Completes+Historic+Expedition+But+Why+Is+This+Not+On+All+Major+Outlets+Yet%3F&oq=Nigerian+Pilot+Completes+Historic+Expedition+But+Why+Is+This+Not+On+All+Major+Outlets+Yet%3F&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.12...5149.5149.0.6634.3.2.1.0.0.0.306.306.3-1.1.0....0...1c.2.64.mobile-gws-hp..1.1.40.3..35i39k1.CFd9Z9vTli0

They mean the first "black African" to fly solo?

tdayof:
The J11 is an air superiority fighter while the j16 is a multirole.

12 of these will go for 384M USD or 420M USD at maximum.

The Flankers from China are not for sale.

....but we are also going for the JF-17 na.

tdayof:


What happened to the Chinese j11. Their flankers variaints? we're using Chinese mig 21 variants already.

The fact is people from the west are eating us up. Except NAF is expecting 25 aircrafs from US, the 600M USD is too much.
[b]Henry said the Russians flanker have high operational cost[/b]so I'll just go for the Mig35, J10, J11, SU34 and probably more jf17.

I have seen the J11 do fly by and do aerobatic moves so I'll say it's a nice aircraft.


Anyway, it's our opinion. Those guys at DHQ, NAF HQ are not thinking like us.

Abeg ooo!! Henry did not say ooo, I only quoted widely available open sources

I've always stated, as my own view that we do not have a requirement for fighter like the SU-30. There is no operational requirement for them. My preferred fighter has been the J-10, with the JF-17 as a second choice.

The choice of the Tucano is brilliant, it fills all our operational requirements and more. For an Air Force that is as active as the Nigerian Air Force, keep in mind that we have been flying CAS and ground interdiction missions for the past 23 years. We need an aircraft that is both modern and cost effective to carry out our day to day missions, while the JF-17 flies deep interdiction and air defence.

However, the A-29 at 600 million is simply outrageous. It is my opinion that we first wait and see the details of the deal that hasn't even been approved before we pass judgement.

iblawi:
This is another way of saying we are not selling. They are forcing us to say we don't need it anymore and even if we buy it they will still be grounded like the jaguars.

Let's just forget the Tucano forever. Mig 35 on my mind now.

JF-17 would perform the roles of the MIG-35.

Irrespective of your feelings,we need the Tucano, but not at the price quoted. There is a high probability of sanctions in the future, however our industry has grown to a point where we can take the beating, and still keep the planes flying through out its life cycle.

frumentius:


That's the problem with the Kenya deal. They thought they were getting the Archangel. Instead L-3 Communications was awarded a no-bid contract for a plane they don't even make, at double the price Iomax would've charged. The whole thing stinks.

Even after the Kenyan deal, Egypt almost ended up in the same situation, IOMAX had to proactively get in touch the Egypts DoD before USAF awarded the contract 'again' to L-3.... IOMAX was tired of sitting and waiting to be contacted by USAF... it seems there is network mafia in the US arms deal network, they have infiltraded state department, DoD, Congress together with the Big defence contractors, they do insider trading ans ward tenderes to themselves with kickcaks exchanging hands...... If anyone want to buy US arms, advice is first go to the manufacture, then after you are satisfied is when you get in touch with the state department DSCA or whoever, with a reference from the manufacturer so that they don't reap you off

23 February 2017
IOMAX has held high-level talks with the Egyptian Ministry of Defence (MoD) to safeguard an expected sale of armed turboprop aircraft from being poached by its Air Tractor and L3 Technologies competitors, a company official told Jane's.

The North Carolina-based IOMAX has for some months been negotiating with the Egyptian MoD to support and upgrade 12 AT-802s that have been gifted by the United Arab Emirates (UAE), at the same time as looking to sell the country 10 of its latest Archangel Block 2 Border Patrol Aircraft (BPA). However, emergency talks have been held after IOMAX discovered that L3 was trying to use the US government to have Egypt buy the AT-802L that it has developed with Air Tractor instead.

"We have found that Air Tractor and L3 have been misrepresenting their product in Egypt, but luckily we found this out before it had gone through the [Defense Security Cooperation Agency] DSCA, the State Department and the [US Air Force] USAF [approval process]. We have now corrected that narrative, and are in the final stages of discussions with the Egyptians for the sale of the Archangel," the IOMAX official told Jane's.

According to the official, Air Tractor and L3 had been looking to sell their AT-802L into Egypt on the basis that it was already fielded and in service with the UAE, whereas in fact this is the IOMAX AT-802 and its successor Archangel. "To say the Egyptians were dismayed when they realised Air Tractor and L3 had never built or much less fielded an armed AT-802, and in addition were not the ones who build the current Archangel, would not be an overstatement," he said.

Although IOMAX told Jane's that it had corrected the narrative with the Egyptians, it noted that this was not before the country's MoD had submitted a sole source letter of recommendation (LOR) request to the US government for the AT-802L based on its misunderstanding of the situation. http://www.janes.com/article/68188/iomax-moves-to-secure-egyptian-archangel-sale-from-competitor

That last statement hahahaha
"MoD had submitted a sole source letter of recommendation (LOR) request to the US government for the AT-802L based on its misunderstanding of the situation."


Misunderstanding of the situation WTF, they said something similar with the Kenyan deal.... They even used archangel pictures when they were pitching it to Kenya DoD, only later to award the deal to L-3

Henry240:


There is a high probability of sanctions in the future, however our industry has grown to a point where we can take the beating, and still keep the planes flying through out its life cycle.

You just had to mess it up so early in the day...

Even South Africa with an actual aviation industry can't manage to have any of her fleet flying without an external supply of parts.

We can manufacturer plenty of parts and airframes BUT we don't do everything. Then you claim you can do this without any aviation manufacturing capabilities. You're something Henry, you're really something.

its an age old fixation. i dont think it has to do with the UN seat

GreenandGold:



Maybe it's a political move on your side to align Nigeria with the US for that ever elusive one African UN Security Council permanent seat.

2nd last article I will post

http://www.nation.co.ke/news/secretive-unit-behind-kenya-arms-deal-congressman-says/1056-3871522-m6rggcz/
By KEVIN J. KELLEY
More by this Author
New York
Political favouritism involving a “secretive” unit within the United States Air Force known as Big Safari drove Kenya’s pending $418 million (about Sh42 billion) arms purchase from a United States (US) military contractor, Congressman Ted Budd has said.

Mr Budd, who has been fighting the proposed deal between Kenya and New York-based L3 Technologies for several weeks, launched his latest attack in a speech to the US House of Representatives on Wednesday.

The Republican lawmaker from the state of North Carolina said a powerful “political class” in Washington enriches itself through insider dealings such as the Kenya-L3 arrangement.

Mr Budd noted, without specifically naming the company, that L3 has tentatively been awarded the contract to produce “12 airplanes that are essentially armed crop dusters.”

Kenya would also acquire two training planes and related components and services as part of the $418 million purchase. The weapons are to be used in Kenya’s war in Somalia against al-Shabaab.

“There’s only one slight problem with the deal — the defence contractor chosen to fulfil the sale doesn’t make this type of planes,” Congressman Budd said. “They’ve never done it before. In fact, there’s an extra $130 million built into this deal for them to design a whole new airplane.”

Iomax USA, a firm based in his own district, is the sole manufacturer of the kind of planes Kenya is seeking to obtain, Mr Budd said.

‘SEVEN YEARS’

“They’ve been doing it for seven years,” he said in regard to Iomax. “They’ve got 50 of them in service around the Middle East. Their planes have dropped more than 4,000 bombs on Isis.”

But Iomax was not even considered for the Kenya deal, Mr Budd continued. “Nobody got a chance to bid. Nobody knew about it except the company that got it, and the bureaucrats involved.”

“You know the right people, have the right lobbyists, you get awards like this from the federal government without competition. Doesn’t matter if you don’t even make the product — they’ll give you some extra money to design it from scratch,” he said.

Mr Budd cited the Big Safari acquisition unit within the US Air Force as the key entity behind the proposed deal.

Describing Big Safari as “secretive,” the congressman said he had put 19 questions about the Kenya contract to officials in the Air Force unit but got answers to only four of them.

Excluded from this sort of cosy relationship are working-class Americans such as Iomax employees, Mr Budd added. In the Kenya case, they were up against “a $13 billion defence contractor and a $4 trillion federal government that appears to have forgotten impartiality,” he said.

Fidha254:
What combat trainer jets that are already in the battlefield and converted to attack roles with mordern munition and avionics similar to the western.....
A truly dedicated gunship is much more expensive, a chinese Z-10 is $17Mil a pop, same price for russian Mi-28.......
Besides the issue of price, the light attack craft also come with the advantage of ISR capability and endurance, the aircraft could spend alot of hours high up in the sky out of visual range looking for enemy targets.. and if it finds them, it double as attack craft so no need to call other air-strike..


Besides, Most countries fighting terrorism in M.East AKA terrorism central Command eigther already have or are currently in the proces of acquiring light attack aircraft for COIN,

AFghan Airforce has orderd 20 A-29
Lebanon has ordered 6 Tucanos for $462M ..... although the deal also include 2,000 APKWS




Jordan wants to upgrade its AT-802 to archangel standards




UAE took its last delivery of its 24th archangel last month, it had ordered them in 2015, They now plan to add 12 More.. This is in addition to 48 AT-*)@ UAE had already taken delivery of although they have given them to its allies- 6 to jordan, 12 to egypt, others were given to Lybia




In addition to the 12 At-802 Egypt was given by UAE, egypt wants to upgrage them to archangel standards, they also plan to order 10 arcangels....

Now, Doesnt egypt have a mixture of most of the mordern fighters and attack helos, drones already?? from f-16, rafale, Mig-21s, Mig-35s,..... they also have advance trainers like Alpha jet, L-59s...to gunships such as Mi-8,Apache, Ka-52, black hawks......

Why would a military with such an enviable arsenal be looking to use cheap light attack aircrafts for its day to day COIN operations instead of its expensive firepower

In addition to what you said,

From the Nigerian perspective we have bought everything. We got 12 MI-35m attack helicopters from Russia. Armed variants of the MI-17 also.

5 x UCAVs from China

20 X UAVs from the UAE, which includes the Yahbon Flash 20 and it's armed variants.

There is also 3 X JF-17 from China/Pakistan.

The choice of the A29 allows the Nigerian Air Force deploy a platform which would be relatively cheap, and performs excellently in all the roles in a LICW threat environment.

It is also possible that the price of the A29 is that high because it is unlikely that the US would sell dumb bombs to Nigeria. Very unlikely, and how much would a thousand smart bombs cost, how many are we getting?

GreenandGold:


You just had to mess it up so early in the day...

Even South Africa with an actual aviation industry can't manage to have any of her fleet flying without an external supply of parts.

We can manufacturer plenty of parts and airframes BUT we don't do everything. Then you claim you can do this without any aviation manufacturing capabilities. You're something Henry, you're really something.

I won't bash you this early in the morning.

There is the option of get parts from Embraer, we are already getting 3 units from Brazil.

Parts for the Tucano are also readily available in the open market. It is unlike a dedicated fighter jet.

Even Nigerian Air Force F-7s, we build some of the parts required to fly them right here.

I hope you now get were I am coming from, because I would not bother responding to you in the future.

Last article, It seems Kenya might be looking to buy the same from UAE at a more affordable price range, KAF officials and pilots have already visited UAE to check out the archangels, most likely we will might end up buying 2nd hand that have been used for atleast 12 Months (thats my thinking anyway)....
But I have read a comment on a US defense forum where one guy said L-3 technology is now willing to reduce the price for the same on the Kenya deal, And from the article below, the have added additional components and weapons package for the same deal (like how now? they are not even ashamed of guilt they were raping us in broad daylight!!!!n Now they are back with Vaseline )

SUNDAY APRIL 2 2017
The Kenyan government is now facing a decision on how — or whether — to proceed with its intention to buy a dozen armed crop-duster aircraft and related items from US contractors.

There is no deadline for Kenya's choice. It can accept the terms of an official offer made on Wednesday by New York-based L3 Technologies, or it can seek to negotiate better terms, or it can refuse to make any deal with L3.

The price and components of the weapons package now on offer from L3 have not been disclosed.

Neither the company nor the US government, which oversees arms deals in accordance with the Foreign Military Sales programme, has responded to Sunday Nation requests for release of that information.

The proposed Kenya-L3 deal carried a State Department-approved price tag of $418 million (Sh41bn) when it was outlined in January.
Sources say it is possible that L3 has lowered its price in response to criticisms by some members of the US Congress.
L3 may also be offering to include additional components in the package that were not included in the January outline.
Another military contractor, IOMAX USA, meanwhile indicated on Friday that it can provide Kenya with what it says is superior equipment at a total cost of $237 million (Sh23bn) — $181 million less than L3's January offer.
Congressman Ted Budd, a vocal critic of the Kenya-L3 deal, says L3 does not even manufacture the type of aircraft Kenya is interested in purchasing for use in Somalia against Al-Shabaab.

READ: Kenya, US arms deal at risk

READ: 3 Congressmen defend Kenya-US arms deal

And Mr Budd pointed out in a speech on Wednesday in the US House of Representatives that US government officials did not consider IOMAX as a potential supplier....

DELIVERY PERIOD
IOMAX, which is headquartered in Mr Budd's district in North Carolina, is the sole manufacturer of those planes, the Republican lawmaker said. Mr Budd noted that 50 IOMAX Archangel aircraft are in service in combat zones in the Middle East where they “have dropped more than 4000 bombs on ISIS”.

Kenyan officials are understood to have traveled last week to the United Arab Emirates to conduct a first-hand evaluation of the Archangel aircraft that IOMAX has sold to the UAE.

During the visit, a Kenyan Air Force commander personally flew an Archangel to test its capabilities.

Kenya has the option of buying a dozen Archangels from the UAE at what a source described as an unspecified “discount” price.

Alternately, Nairobi could purchase new Archangels directly from IOMAX.
Under either of those scenarios, Kenya would take delivery of the aircraft in six months or less, IOMAX officials say.
It would take L3 two years to fulfill its sale because the New York company has not built the planes, according to IOMAX.
Kenyan officials in Washington and Nairobi have not responded to requests for comments on the L3 and IOMAX offers.
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Govt-dithers-about-purchase-of-aircrafts-from-US-firm/1056-3874748-7egqt5z/

Anyway, I hope we will later come to learn that the L-3 deal with Kenya included alote of guided amunition, Missiles, among other tings that L-3 already makes .

Henry240:


I won't bash you this early in the morning.

There is the option of get parts from Embraer, we are already getting 3 units from Brazil.

Parts for the Tucano are also readily available in the open market. It is unlike a dedicated fighter jet.

Even Nigerian Air Force F-7s, we build some of the parts required to fly them right here.

I hope you now get were I am coming from, because I would not bother responding to you in the future.

Under US-lead sanctions you can't get supplied parts by any party especially Brazil unless you get unreliable Chinese knockoffs which is different from the "our industry" statement you just gave.


That being said, you can't fly the Tucano without external support - Phelindaba (end of story).

Talk about aviation, Denel, the CSIR and the Tuks (University of Pretoria) working on a fuel tank system.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jwQis2Tfis

.

MikeCZA:
Remember reading some "expat's" experience flying these with some middle east military it was negative.

Blo..ody flying c...offin doesn't even have ejection seats.

What experts are those, from where the countries that already have them are making new orders... They come with additional bolted amour around the cockpit, plus the bulletproof windshield....

Why would you need ejection seats anyway, at that speed and the way the windows/doors are build, you can just pull your safety belt roll over and you out of the plane, Like a gangster!!!!

besides, in our situation, Alshabaab doesn't poses much of an aerial threat, most of their AA guns they used to posses were taken out by our f-5s during the initial campaign............. look at our MD-500s, they are much slower,and they dont offer any kind of protection for the pilot, have you ever heard any of them bieng taken out by alshabaab

Fidha254:
What experts are those, from where the countries that already have them are making new orders... They come with additional bolted amour around the cockpit, plus the bulletproof windshield....

Why would you need ejection seats anyway, at that speed and the way the windows/doors are build, you can just pull your safety belt roll over and you out of the plane, Like a gangster!!!!

besides, in our situation, Alshabaab doesn't poses much of an aerial threat, most of their AA guns they used to posses were taken out by our f-5s during the initial campaign............. look at our MD-500s, they are much slower,and they dont offer any kind of protection for the pilot, have you ever heard any of them bieng taken out by alshabaab

Hence he said "expects"