felixomor:



Another set of claims without evidence @ bolded

It continues piling up.

What is deism, pantheism and theism?

dalaman:


I repeat, saying that the universe has only one creator remains your own assumption. You do not know you are only assuming.

You claim you know and communicate with the creators of the universe but you can not communicate with this creator and ask it anything about how he created the universe. Are you truly communicating with the entity that created the universe or are you only imagining your self to be communicating with the entity?

The universe as it is has no signature of any God anywhere. The Apple INC has its signature all over the Iphone which clearly indicates that the company is its manufacturer.

Where on this earth is Yahweh's signature as opposed to Allah and Brahma for example?

You can not use your God alone to explain anything as regards to the creation of the universe. You can only use your God to make wild assumptions. How do you jump from the universe having a creator to saying that this creator came into planet earth as a human being in a tiny country in the middle east and died for the sins of humanity 2000 years ago and left no trace or evidence besides stories that sone people decoded to write about 40 years after the alleged event? Do you know what the universe is?

Again, I want you to communicate with your God and ask him why he created the earth's inner core with liquid iron and nickle and how that helps the earth's magnetic field in repelling solar flares and it's radiation. If you can use God alone and explain most things about the earth then we will agree that you know what you are talking about since your Gods signature can not be found in any art of the earth or universe.

The argument is for a created universe ; if the universe was created by a single entity or more than entities it does not change the fact that it was created .

God obviously does not resemble humans in form and in mind so I'm not sure why you want a signature

I've always used this analogy and you seem to flounder with it : if we should discover an artificial complex system in another planet , the only explanation for the existence of this artificial system is that it was intelligently designed . Simple . We can create speculations that it was done by a single alien or many aliens . Then with the level of complexity we can deduce how intelligent the designer(designers) of this artificial system is . We can also deduce other properties or attributes of the designer(designers) of the discovered artificial system.

And that is how the deists made their conclusion that God exists with the use of logic , science*the study of nature) and observation .

Then in the case of theism :

Scientists on planet earth could claim that these aliens contacted us and made some remarkable revelations about itself or themselves to us . And if you look closely so many deductions that were made by another group of scientists who simply described the designer by studying the design which is artificial complex system would correlate with the revelations gotten through the contact made with the alien or aliens .


You can see similarities with deism and theism : God is eternal , immutable , changeless , omnipotent , omniscient , necessarily existing and so many other correlations about the attributes of God .

In short , the only logical explanation for the universe is God aka transcendent conscious creator . The universe cannot be eternal without the coexistence with its creator which ensures continual intervention with the affairs of the universe . The universe does not have what it takes to be eternal on its own because of what is called usable energy . The universe could also collapse if it continues for a really long time . Everything sine qua non for the existence of life can only come from an intelligent designer . We can make speculations about the attributes of this designer but it does not stop Him from existing .

Oya time to pretend like you don't understand so we can argue till either of us gets tired of the argument .

dalaman:


What is deism, pantheism and theism?

You made claims, instead of backup with evidence
At the same time, u r asking me questions.

Typical.

felixomor:


You made claims, instead of backup with evidence
At the same time, u r asking me questions.

Typical.

Let's just take one of them and have a look at it.

Deism is a man made concept.

From wikipedia:

Deism (/ˈdiː.ɪzəm/ dee-iz-əm [1][2] or /ˈdeɪ.ɪzəm/ day-iz-əm) (derived from Latin "deus" meaning "god" is a philosophical position which posits that a god does not interfere directly with the world. [/b]It also rejects revelation as a source of religious knowledge with the conclusion that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a single creator of the universe.[3][4][5][6][7] [8]
[b]
Deism gained prominence among intellectuals during the Age of Enlightenment, especially in Britain, France, Germany, and the United States. Typically, these had been raised as Christians and believed in one God, but they had became disenchanted with organized religion and orthodox teachings such as the Trinity, Biblical inerrancy, and the supernatural interpretation of events, such as miracles.[9] Included in those influenced by its ideas were leaders of the American and French Revolutions.[10]


From the above entry we can see that deism is a philosophical position created by men during the age of enlightenment who rejected organized religion and created their own philosophy out of it.

IF YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO SHOW THAT IT ID NOT A MAN MADE INVENTION THEN BRING IT FORWARD.

KingEbukasBlog:



The argument is for a created universe ; if the universe was created by a single entity or more than entities it does not change the fact that it was created .

God obviously does not resemble humans in form and in mind so I'm not sure why you want a signature

But according to you guys, God wants people to know that he created the universe. The best way for people to know that is to have his signature available so that people will know for sure that it was created by him and not some other Gods or phenomena.

I've always used this analogy and you seem to flounder with it : if we should discover an artificial complex system in another planet , the only explanation for the existence of this artificial system is that it was intelligently designed . Simple . We can create speculations that it was done by a single alien or many aliens . Then with the level of complexity we can deduce how intelligent the designer(designers) of this artificial system is . We can also deduce other properties or attributes of the designer(designers) of the discovered artificial system.

Its simple. Do the aliens want humans to know about them and their created artificial system? If they do they will leave indicators.

And that is how the deists made their conclusion that God exists with the use of logic , science*the study of nature) and observation .

Then in the case of theism :

Scientists on planet earth could claim that these aliens contacted us and made some remarkable revelations about itself or themselves to us . And if you look closely so many deductions that were made by another group of scientists who simply described the designer by studying the design which is artificial complex system would correlate with the revelations gotten through the contact made with the alien or aliens .


You can see similarities with deism and theism : God is eternal , immutable , changeless , omnipotent , omniscient , necessarily existing and so many other correlations about the attributes of God .

In short , the only logical explanation for the universe is God aka transcendent conscious creator . The universe cannot be eternal without the coexistence with its creator which ensures continual intervention with the affairs of the universe . The universe does not have what it takes to be eternal on its own because of what is called usable energy . The universe could also collapse if it continues for a really long time . Everything sine qua non for the existence of life can only come from an intelligent designer . We can make speculations about the attributes of this designer but it does not stop Him from existing

There is no scientific consensus on the status of the universe being eternal or not. The universe is energy and energy can neither be created or destroyed. Where then did you get your hypothesis of the universe collapsing? Will it ceases to exist afree collapsing or will it transform into something else?

Oya time to pretend like you don't understand so we can argue till either of us gets tired of the argument .

You aren't making any convincing arguments.

dalaman:

But according to you guys, God wants people to know that he created the universe. The best way for people to know that is to have his signature available so that people will know for sure that it was created by him and not some other Gods or phenomena.

Signature or no signature ; God choosing to reveal Himself or not , it does mean the universe is not created . With your logic , a paper plane made by a toddler isn't actually created because the toddler didn't sign his signature ? Oga D , you are better than this na

dalaman:
Its simple. Do the aliens want humans to know about them and their created artificial system? If they do they will leave indicators.

This is called the anthrocentric fallacy : you surmise or presuppose that aliens would behave like humans and indite their signatures on their creations as a way of showing ownership of properties .

There is no scientific consensus on the status of the universe being eternal or not. The universe is energy and energy can neither be created or destroyed. Where then did you get your hypothesis of the universe collapsing? Will it ceases to exist afree collapsing or will it transform into something else?

The Law of Conversation of Energy was violated at the beginning of the universe( I thought you knew this) . All of space , matter , energy began to exist during Big Bang. If the universe completely expends its usable energy it would become defunct .

Continuous transformation of the universe ad infinitum obviously betokens infinite regress ( from infinity to infinity) and infinite regress is totally illogical . That's why the First Cause/God which is immutable (changeless) , beginless is clearly logical .

You aren't making any convincing arguments.

Oga D , I'm clearly having fun with your tenuous rebuttals .

dalaman:


Let's just take one of them and have a look at it.

Deism is a man made concept.

From wikipedia:

Deism (/ˈdiː.ɪzəm/ dee-iz-əm [1][2] or /ˈdeɪ.ɪzəm/ day-iz-əm) (derived from Latin "deus" meaning "god" is a philosophical position which posits that a god does not interfere directly with the world. [/b]It also rejects revelation as a source of religious knowledge with the conclusion that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a single creator of the universe.[3][4][5][6][7] [8]
[b]
Deism gained prominence among intellectuals during the Age of Enlightenment, especially in Britain, France, Germany, and the United States. Typically, these had been raised as Christians and believed in one God, but they had became disenchanted with organized religion and orthodox teachings such as the Trinity, Biblical inerrancy, and the supernatural interpretation of events, such as miracles.[9] Included in those influenced by its ideas were leaders of the American and French Revolutions.[10]


From the above entry we can see that deism is a philosophical position created by men during the age of enlightenment who rejected organized religion and created their own philosophy out of it.

IF YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO SHOW THAT IT ID NOT A MAN MADE INVENTION THEN BRING IT FORWARD.

You posted an excerpt of an article that clearly stated that deism gained prominence during the Age of Enlightenment ,yet you went ahead and said that it was created during that same period ? Haba na !

Deism (Classical Deism ) was developed around the 5th and 6th century BC but gained prominence during the Age of Enlightenment . I'm not sure why you are intransigent about your view that deism is a man made invention , of course it is ; It is a created concept of God , but how does this stop God from existing ?

Anytime you have problems understanding what concepts of God are , always remember the artificial-complex-system-on-another-planet analogy .

KingEbukasBlog:


Signature or no signature ; God choosing to reveal Himself or not , it does mean the universe is not created . With your logic , a paper plane made by a toddler isn't actually created because the toddler didn't sign his signature ? Oga D , you are better than this na

I repeat, according to you guys God wants people to know that he created the universe. Why isn't there any signature of ownership anywhere? Even among the God believers every body is claiming that his or her own version of God alone created the universe. The deist are saying it's there's, pantheist and the various versions of theist. I am not saying that the universe has no creator or creators. What am saying is that nobody knows. If you do then show us the incontrovertible evidence. Did Yahweh create the earth? Tell us how he did it. You claimyou communicate with him. Talk to him and tell us how exactly he created the earth. Use Yahweh alone an explain all the thingswe don't know about the earth's creation. Like how the earth's core is still in a molten state.

This is called the anthrocentric fallacy : you surmise or presuppose that aliens would behave like humans and indite their signatures on their creations as a way of showing ownership of properties .

Why wouldn't they? Being intelligent already shows that the posses some human attributes.

The Law of Conversation of Energy was violated at the beginning of the universe( I thought you knew this) . All of space , matter , energy began to exist during Big Bang. If the universe completely expends its usable energy it would become defunct .

Continuous transformation of the universe ad infinitum obviously betokens infinite regress ( from infinity to infinity) and infinite regress is totally illogical . That's why the First Cause/God which is immutable (changeless) , beginless is clearly logical .



Oga D , I'm clearly having fun with your tenuous rebuttals .

Firstly the big bang is only a scientific assumption. It is not a fact. Secondly the universe can not become defunct. It can no cease to exist and become empty or nothing. It hasn't been theorized. Are you saying that the universe will someday cease to exist?

KingEbukasBlog:


You posted an excerpt of an article that clearly stated that deism gained prominence during the Age of Enlightenment ,yet you went ahead and said that it was created during that same period ? Haba na !

Deism (Classical Deism ) was developed around the 5th and 6th century BC but gained prominence during the Age of Enlightenment . I'm not sure why you are intransigent about your view that deism is a man made invention , of course it is ; It is a created concept of God , but how does this stop God from existing ?

Anytime you have problems understanding what concepts of God are , always remember the artificial-complex-system-on-another-planet analogy .

Just wanted to show felixomor that deism is a man made created concept.

I like your honesty and clarity when it comes to accepting issues.

dalaman:


Let's just take one of them and have a look at it.

Deism is a man made concept.

From wikipedia:

Deism (/ˈdiː.ɪzəm/ dee-iz-əm [1][2] or /ˈdeɪ.ɪzəm/ day-iz-əm) (derived from Latin "deus" meaning "god" is a philosophical position which posits that a god does not interfere directly with the world. [/b]It also rejects revelation as a source of religious knowledge with the conclusion that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a single creator of the universe.[3][4][5][6][7] [8]
[b]
Deism gained prominence among intellectuals during the Age of Enlightenment, especially in Britain, France, Germany, and the United States. Typically, these had been raised as Christians and believed in one God, but they had became disenchanted with organized religion and orthodox teachings such as the Trinity, Biblical inerrancy, and the supernatural interpretation of events, such as miracles.[9] Included in those influenced by its ideas were leaders of the American and French Revolutions.[10]


From the above entry we can see that deism is a philosophical position created by men during the age of enlightenment who rejected organized religion and created their own philosophy out of it.

IF YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO SHOW THAT IT ID NOT A MAN MADE INVENTION THEN BRING IT FORWARD.

Good
So now that you have shown that deism is man made.
And even highlighted the history of its origin. Good

Please, also kindly show how theism is man made.
And also tell us the history of the man who made theism.

felixomor:

Good
So now that you have shown that deism is man made.
And even highlighted the history of its origin. Good

Please, also kindly show how theism is man made.
And also tell us the history of the man who made theism.

You are blockheaded. How can you as me to tell you the history of the man that made theism.

Theism is just a belief system. There are different types of theism. There is the monotheism and the polytheism . I will ask you a simple question. Would started Islam? What about scientology another form of theism? Who started these two theistic religions?

dalaman:


You are blockheaded. How can you as me to tell you the history of the man that made theism.

Theism is just a belief system. There are different types of theism. There is the monotheism and the polytheism . I will ask you a simple question. Would started Islam? What about scientology another form of theism? Who started these two theistic religions?

dalaman:


................................

Are you a pantheist? Can the pantheist explain to us how this God created life with objective evidence? You keep supporting my osition that God is a man made idea and concept. So far you have touched on 3 different man made God ideas which are deism, theism and pantheism. All these concepts and ideas are man made.

Men created deism, theism and pantheism , all to help them explain away the universe they found them selves inside.

@ bolded above.
Cant u see that your the only blockhead who cant even remember what you earlier said?

You never cease to behave drunk.

felixomor:





@ bolded above.
Cant u see that your the only blockhead who cant even remember what you earlier said?

You never cease to behave drunk.

I said men created these philosophies. I gave you an example with deism. Now you are asking me to give you the history of the man that started theism. What type of blockheadededness is that?

dalaman:


I said men created these philosophies. I gave you an example with deism. Now you are asking me to give you the history of the man that started theism. What type of blockheadededness is that?

Yes, just as u gave the history of the men that started deism.
You are the one being blockheaded not to understand what you wrote by yourself.

felixomor:


Yes, just as u gave the history of the men that started deism.
You are the one being blockheaded not to understand what you wrote by yourself.

So many men have started theistic religions(Polytheism and monotheism ). We don't have to go far. Prophet Mohammed and his cronies invented a theistic religion called Islam.

dalaman:


So many men have started theistic religions(Polytheism and monotheism ). We don't have to go far. Prophet Mohammed and his cronies invented a theistic religion called Islam.

Theism was already existing before Mohammed's forefathers.
Please tell us the origin of theism itself just as u did in detail for deism.

felixomor:


Theism was already existing before Mohammed's forefathers.
Please tell us the origin of theism itself just as u did in detail for deism.

Mohammed invented his own type of theism. The founders of christianity also invented their own type of theism, just like the founders of Hinduism invented their own type of theism. Long before them the ancient Egyptians, Grewks and Romans also invented their own type of theism. There are different types of theism and all are man made inventions. Just recently someone invented scientology another form of theism. If you know any form of theism that wasn't created by men, go ahead and bring it forward.

dalaman:


Mohammed invented his own type of theism. The founders of christianity also invented their own type of theism, just like the founders of Hinduism invented their own type of theism. Long before them the ancient Egyptians, Grewks and Romans also invented their own type of theism. There are different types of theism and all are man made inventions. Just recently someone invented scientology another form of theism. If you know any form of theism that wasn't created by men, go ahead and bring it forward.

Please who were the first to invent it?
And when?

felixomor:


Please who were the first to invent it?
And when?

That's why I said you are blockheaded. There are different types of theism. If you name a particular type then I can tell you who invented it. For example the early Church fathers invented christianity. They chose the books that formed the new testament, they formulated the stories, they formulated the creed, created the doctrines and passed it down.

For Islam it was Mohammed and his cronies.

Name the type of theism and you will be shown the people that invented it, created the doctrines and traditions and on and on. You will pretend not to understand what am saying and will move forward and ask me another blockheaded question.

dalaman:


That's why I said you are blockheaded .

Argumentum ad hominem.
The hope for idiots who get exposed with a simple question.
Typical.

dalaman:

There are different types of theism. If you name a particular type then I can tell you who invented it.

Nobody asked u about types
I asked who first started it
And when.
My question was based on time and not "types".
Use your dictionary.

dalaman:

For example the early Church fathers invented christianity. They chose the books that formed the new testament, they formulated the stories, they formulated the creed, created the doctrines and passed it down.

Even with google by your side you spew that type of bold ignorance @ bolded above ?^^^^

dalaman:

For Islam it was Mohammed and his cronies.

Nobody asked you about this.
My question remains, who started it first?

dalaman:

Name the type of theism and you will be shown the people that invented it,

Again, a diversion. Typical Red Herring.
My question; who started it first?

dalaman:

created the doctrines and traditions and on and on. You will pretend not to understand what am saying and will move forward and ask me another blockheaded question.

Sorry, you are the only pretender here who is pretending not to understand a simple question,
"Who started it first?"

felixomor:

Argumentum ad hominem.
The hope for idiots who get exposed with a simple question.
Typical.

Mirror, mirror on the wall.

Nobody asked u about types
I asked who first started it
And when.
My question was based on time and not "types".
Use your dictionary

Who started what type of theism? Is it Islam, Ifa, Hinduism, ancient Greek religion or what? Which theism are you talking about?

Even with google by your side you spew that type of bold ignorance @ bolded above ?^^^^

The early Church fathers invented Christianity, without them you won't have the new testament as it is. The various creeds and doctrines were all invented by them.

Nobody asked you about this.
My question remains, who started it first?

Who started what? You are asking a bock headed question. There are different typea of theism and all were started and invented at different times by different people.

Again, a diversion. Typical Red Herring.
My question; who started it first

Stop asking me blockheaded questions.

Sorry, you are the only pretender here who is pretending not to understand a simple question,
"Who started it first?"

Again stop asking who started it. It's a blockheaded question.

dalaman:


Mirror, mirror on the wall.

From ad hominem to red herrings.

dalaman:

Who started what type of theism? Is it Islam, Ifa, Hinduism, ancient Greek religion or what? Which theism are you talking about?

The question is simple.
Your pretence is failing woefully.
There are also different types of deism, but u were able to pinpoint how it started.
But when it came to "theism"
You became fixated on "types" all of a sudden.

You are only deceiving yourself.

dalaman:

The early Church fathers invented Christianity, without them you won't have the new testament as it is. The various creeds and doctrines were all invented by them.

Unfortunately, common sense failed you here.
That Christianity is based on the man, Jesus.
However, its a red herring from u.
In attempt to cover the ignorance of thw question asked u.

dalaman:

[s]Who started what? You are asking a bock headed question. There are different typea of theism and all were started and invented at different times by different people[/s] .

Ad hominems,
Typical

dalaman:

Stop asking me blockheaded questions.

Still the only way idiots can continue conversation, so as to appear intelligent.

dalaman:

Again stop asking who started it. It's a blockheaded question.

The pretense is still strong.
You told us who first started deism without getting fixated On "types"
You are only deceiving yourself throwing ad hominems because you are trying hard to defend your first ignorant statement.

All the atheist in the house, Please you should be ashamed of yourself, how can tell me every thing exists by chance. All the heavens, earth, the saline sea and fresh sea bordering eachother, one not interfering with the other. Furthermore, same rainfall gives us different crops such as white and brown beans, orange and white maize, different variety of fruits and so on. Pls meditate, think deeply about your surrounding. You will realize that their is a supreme being in charge of all this. Is not possible for all this to occur by chance.

felixomor:

From ad hominem to red herrings.

You used ad hominem as well so why are you crying?

The question is simple.
Your pretence is failing woefully.
There are also different types of deism, but u were able to pinpoint how it started.
But when it came to "theism"
You became fixated on "types" all of a sudden.

You are only deceiving yourself.

What are the types of deism? List them. Theism vary a lot. Polytheism is very different from monotheism and it matters a lot. Theism is not a single set of belief. Am suprised at your blockheadedness.

Unfortunately, common sense failed you here.
That Christianity is based on the man, Jesus.
However, its a red herring from u.
In attempt to cover the ignorance of thw question asked u.

Jesus did not invent christianity. Jesus never wrote down any story about himself. He never wrote down any book about himself. Unknoqn people many years after he died started writing down stories about him which the early Church fathers later ascribes names to, put together in a cannon through vtoes, created a creed and invented doctrines based on the stories of a character which they called Jesus. You wouldn't have known anything about Jesus if not for the unknown author of Mark that wrote down the first gospelabout 40 years after Jesus allegedly died and other authors of the gospels like.Luke and Mathew copied from him, sometimes verbatim. Which book dd Jesus write? Which doctrine did he invent like the Trinity?

Ad hominems,
Typical



Still the only way idiots can continue conversation, so as to appear intelligent.

Hypocrisy at its best.

The pretense is still strong.
You told us who first started deism without getting fixated On "types"
You are only deceiving yourself throwing ad hominems because you are trying hard to defend your first ignorant statement.

What are the types of deism?

dalaman:


You used ad hominem as well so why are you crying?

Sorry, i didnt.
You were the one who started calling yourself blockheaded because you couldnt a simple question.

dalaman:


What are the types of deism? List them. Theism vary a lot. Polytheism is very different from monotheism and it matters a lot. Theism is not a single set of belief. Am suprised at your blockheadedness.

Just google "types of deism".
Examples are gnostic deism, pandeism, pagan deism etc.
I will not continue to list them, because u will use it to escape the simple question thrown at you.
Which you are yet to answer.

dalaman:


Jesus did not invent christianity. Jesus never wrote down any story about himself.

Sorry he did.
He told people to walk in his footsteps.
You dont need to "write" to invent anything.

dalaman:


He never wrote down any book about himself.

He didnt have to.
His life and commands were the way.

dalaman:

Unknoqn people many years after he died started writing down stories about him which the early Church fathers later ascribes names to, put together in a cannon through vtoes, created a creed and invented doctrines based on the stories of a character which they called Jesus.

Please go and educate yourself.
There are more than 5 secular historians, outside the bible who wrote on the life of Jesus Christ.
Please educate yourself on that.
Jesus was a known man even in the secular world.
Dont distort history with your fabrications.

dalaman:

You wouldn't have known anything about Jesus if not for the unknown author of Mark that wrote down the first gospelabout 40 years after Jesus allegedly died and other authors of the gospels like.Luke and Mathew copied from him, sometimes verbatim. Which book dd Jesus write? Which doctrine did he invent like the Trinity?

Lies again. @ bolded.
Even secular Chroniclers wrote on Jesus Christ.

dalaman:


Hypocrisy at its best.

No communication received.

dalaman:


What are the types of deism?

I listed some above and even there are many more subtypes.
Use your google.

In summary, only a simple line question,
Has eventually turned to long stories as usual.
And u throwing back questions.
Just as I always predicted.

felixomor:

Sorry, i didnt.
You were the one who started calling yourself blockheaded because you couldnt a simple question.

You did.

felixomor:


Argumentum ad hominem.
The hope for idiots who get exposed with a simple question.
Typical.

Why are you crying?

Just google "types of deism".
Examples are gnostic deism, pandeism, pagan deism etc.
I will not continue to list them, because u will use it to escape the simple question thrown at you.
Which you are yet to answer.

Deism is a relatively new philosophy that started not too long ago. It basically states that there is a God that created the universe and doesn't interneve in it. It is very different from theism. Theism is not a single set of belief. So you can not ask me who started theism because it is not a single set of belief. You can only ask who started a particular type of theism.

Sorry he did.
He told people to walk in his footsteps.
You dont need to "write" to invent anything.

Who is Jesus without the early Church fathers? Everything, the whole story was made up by the early Church fathers. If not for them there won't be any Jesus stories anywhere. They wrote down those stories many years after Jesus allegedly died. The first gospel that was ever written was the gospel of Mark, and it was anonymously written about 40 years after Jesus died until the early church fathers decided to name it the book of Mark. They chose all the books of the new testament and named them, theybalso formed the christian theology. Without them there will be no Jesus story in the first place. You only know about the Jesus stories because of them not because of any Jesus himself, because Jesus did not write down anything and was not a known figure during his time. The first story that was written about him came decades later by unknown people.

He didnt have to.
His life and commands were the way.

His life and commands ad was told by the early Church fathers. Without them there will be no Jesus stories.

Please go and educate yourself.
There are more than 5 secular historians, outside the bible who wrote on the life of Jesus Christ.
Please educate yourself on that.
Jesus was a known man even in the secular world.
Dont distort history with your fabrications.[quote]

It is a lie. No secular historian wrote anything about the life of Jesus during his time. Only one person called Josephus was alleged to have writ tell a few sentences about the life of Jesus years after he died and it has been shown to be a frogery and an interpolation by Eusebius one of the church fathers. Apart from the fraud of Josephus who are the other secular historians that wrote about the life of Jesus and what did they write about him? List their names and what they write about his life.

Lies again. @ bolded.
Even secular Chroniclers wrote on Jesus Christ.

List their names and what they wrote about his life. Only Josephus was alleged to have written a few sentences about Jesus and that has been shown to be a forgery even by Christians.

No communication received.

It is expected after your hypocrisy has been exposed.

I listed some above and even there are many more subtypes.
Use your google.

In summary, only a simple line question,
Has eventually turned to long stories as usual.
And u throwing back questions.
Just as I always predicted.

Asking me who invented theism is a blockedheaded question. Theism isn't a single entity. It is a set of entities within a group. Asking me who invented theism is like asking me who invented food. Food isn't a single thing. State the theism and I'll tell you when it was invented. The theism you were indoctrinated with was invented about 2000 years ago by the early Church fathers who used the Jesus character to establish the new theistic religion, just as Mohammed and his cronies invented their about 1400 years ago.

dalaman:

Who is Jesus without the early Church fathers? Everything, the whole story was made up by the early Church fathers. Of not for them there won't be any Jesus stories anywhere. They wrote down those stories many years after Jesus allegedly died. The first gospel tat was ever written was the gospel of Mark and it was anonymously written about 40 years after Jesus died until the early church fathers decided to name it the book of Mark. They chose all the books of the new testament and named them. Without them there will be no Jesus story in the first place. You only know about the Jesus stories because of them not because of any Jesus Himself because Jesus did not writ down anything and was not a known figure during his time. The first storybook be written about him came decades later by unknown people.

This delusion is strong oo . Popular atheist C S Lewis after studying the evidential truth of the existence of Christ on earth renounced atheism and became a Christian . Prior to the abjuration of his atheistic beliefs he denigrated Christ because he thought Christ was a fictional Character . Same with numerous atheists over the centuries .

Historians no matter the religious affiliation agree that Christ is a historical figure , the only contentious issue is his divinity .

Currently scientists have teamed up with religious scholars to discover the DNA of Christ and then his descendants who are currently alive today (Jesus had brothers remember? ) . They also said to have discovered the bones of John the Baptist which would help them in their search since John was Christ's cousin . Experts have analyzed artifacts including Shroud of Turin - which is believed to have been used to wrap Jesus before his resurrection - and the Sudarium of Oviedo

(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4419810/Scientists-religious-scholars-hunt-DNA-JESUS.html)

Peter lived 30 years after Christ had died and wrote his own letters yet you believe some of Christ's stories were made up . Christ does not need to write stories about Himself . People rarely wrote autobiographies , its mostly others were are inspired by their works that pen down biographies .

In China , Chinese scholars compiled a series of writings called the 21 Histories , an official biography of the Han Dynasty and of each Dynasty which included stories , stats , census figures and chronicles of the wars fought . The Emperors , the warlords , the generals never wrote this biographies , the scholars did years after these events happened . But you don't have the audacity to impugn the veracity of these stories , do you ?

What about stories of Confucius who lived 500 years before Christ ? Chi Shi Huang Ti in his attempt to unify China around 210 BC destroyed so many works and written documents about Confucius yet his legacy survived . But no militant atheist against religion bats an eye or even questions the truth about the surviving stories on the life and teachings of Confucius . And Millions of Chinese people are Confucians .

But humble Christ who taught love and deplored hatred and enmity remains the most controversial figure in history .

Anyway , keep on feeding your mind with lies , reassuring yourself with false nonsense and keeping up with the hypocrisy - that's the only way you can remain mentally enslaved

KingEbukasBlog:


This delusion is strong oo . Popular atheist C S Lewis after studying the evidential truth of the existence of Christ on earth renounced atheism and became a Christian . Prior to the abjuration of his atheistic beliefs he denigrated Christ because he thought Christ was a fictional Character . Same with numerous atheists over the centuries .

Historians no matter the religious affiliation agree that Christ is a historical figure , the only contentious issue is his divinity .

Currently scientists have teamed up with religious scholars to discover the DNA of Christ and then his descendants who are currently alive today (Jesus had brothers remember? ) . They also said to have discovered the bones of John the Baptist which would help them in their search since John was Christ's cousin . Experts have analyzed artifacts including Shroud of Turin - which is believed to have been used to wrap Jesus before his resurrection - and the Sudarium of Oviedo

(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4419810/Scientists-religious-scholars-hunt-DNA-JESUS.html)

Peter lived 30 years after Christ had died and wrote his own letters yet you believe some of Christ's stories were made up . Christ does not need to write stories about Himself . People rarely wrote autobiographies , its mostly others were are inspired by their works that pen down biographies .

In China , Chinese scholars compiled a series of writings called the 21 Histories , an official biography of the Han Dynasty and of each Dynasty which included stories , stats , census figures and chronicles of the wars fought . The Emperors , the warlords , the generals never wrote this biographies , the scholars did years after these events happened . But you don't have the audacity to impugn the veracity of these stories , do you ?

What about stories of Confucius who lived 500 years before Christ ? Chi Shi Huang Ti in his attempt to unify China around 210 BC destroyed so many works and written documents about Confucius yet his legacy survived . But no militant atheist against religion bats an eye or even questions the truth about the surviving stories on the life and teachings of Confucius . And Millions of Chinese people are Confucians .

But humble Christ who taught love and deplored hatred and enmity remains the most controversial figure in history .

Anyway , keep on feeding your mind with lies , reassuring yourself with false nonsense and keeping up with the hypocrisy - that's the only way you can remain mentally enslaved

What sort of delusion is this?
I had to read the link you posted, their tests is based of bones that they somehow thought was from John the Baptist. SMH
Guess what this bones were found in Bulgaria.
Where the Bleep was John the baptist slaughtered according to the Bible.
Accoridng to livescience.com, this bones was traced to be of middleeastern descendants however, so far that's the only reason they somehow linked this to John the baptist.

How did the remains of a man slaughtered by a king get to Bulgaria.

That's not even the main issue, DNA decays rapidly overtime, so how the bloody hell, could someone think of getting the dna of jesus family.
Moreso, John the baptist was not related to jesus, Joseph and Mary were from the tribe of Judah, and Zechariah and Elizabeth were of Aaron (Levites).
I don't want to even go any further, abeg stop cracking jokes.

KingEbukasBlog:


This delusion is strong oo . Popular atheist C S Lewis after studying the evidential truth of the existence of Christ on earth renounced atheism and became a Christian . Prior to the abjuration of his atheistic beliefs he denigrated Christ because he thought Christ was a fictional Character . Same with numerous atheists over the centuries .

Historians no matter the religious affiliation agree that Christ is a historical figure , the only contentious issue is his divinity.

Of course I also believe that there was a human being behind the legend, jut as there was a human being behind the Mohammed legend and many other religious legendary and mythological tales.

Currently scientists have teamed up with religious scholars to discover the DNA of Christ and then his descendants who are currently alive today (Jesus had brothers remember? ) . They also said to have discovered the bones of John the Baptist which would help them in their search since John was Christ's cousin . Experts have analyzed artifacts including Shroud of Turin - which is believed to have been used to wrap Jesus before his resurrection - and the Sudarium of Oviedo

(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4419810/Scientists-religious-scholars-hunt-DNA-JESUS.html)

What is this nonsense? This is an excercise in futility. Discover the DNA of Jesus? Who are the members of his blood line that are alive today? Where are they located? They are just building castles in the air.This is a joke.

Peter lived 30 years after Christ had died and wrote his own letters yet you believe some of Christ's stories were made up . Christ does not need to write stories about Himself . People rarely wrote autobiographies , its mostly others were are inspired by their works that pen down biographies.

All of the Jesus stories were made up by Christians that came long after Jesus died. The first gospel was written about 40 years after he died by an unknown person until the early church father like Papias and Ireaneus ascribed a name to ot to give it legitimacy. Which perter wrote down his own letters? The authorship remains contested by scholars.

In China , Chinese scholars compiled a series of writings called the 21 Histories , an official biography of the Han Dynasty and of each Dynasty which included stories , stats , census figures and chronicles of the wars fought . The Emperors , the warlords , the generals never wrote this biographies , the scholars did years after these events happened . But you don't have the audacity to impugn the veracity of these stories , do you ?

I don't care about them. If there is any claim to these stories that need my attention I will examine them and criticize or debunk where necessary.

What about stories of Confucius who lived 500 years before Christ ? Chi Shi Huang Ti in his attempt to unify China around 210 BC destroyed so many works and written documents about Confucius yet his legacy survived . But no militant atheist against religion bats an eye or even questions the truth about the surviving stories on the life and teachings of Confucius . And Millions of Chinese people are Confucians .

What is this? Are you now crying? What are the claims made by Confuciusthat needs to be debunked by atheist?

But humble Christ who taught love and deplored hatred and enmity remains the most controversial figure in history.

Thrash, Christ thought love and hate at the same time. His love was extended only to those that believe in his message, hate, condemnation and destruction was what he taught against people that refused to accept his message and claims. Read the bible, it's filled with cruelty, death, destruction, racism, misogyny, death, love, kindness, hope, uprightness, etc. It is a mix bag and this reflects in the life of christians throughout history till date.

Anyway , keep on feeding your mind with lies , reassuring yourself with false nonsense and keeping up with the hypocrisy - that's the only way you can remain mentally enslaved

Lies? Is there any truth to be found in the religion you were indoctrinated with? You believe in stories written by mostly unknown men about some elusive character, you believe in a theology created by other men about some religion that they created to enslave people's minds and you still have the audacity to talk about mental enslavement. You are ridiculous.

dalaman:


Of course I also believe that there was a human being behind the legend, jut as there was a human being behind the Mohammed legend and many other religious legendary and mythological tales.

To be clear and concise , you simply dispute the divinity of Christ not the historical evidence of his existence . Simple .

What is this nonsense? This is an excercise in futility. Discover the DNA of Jesus? Who are the members of his blood line that are alive today? Where are they located? They are just building castles in the air.This is a joke.

If those experts know that their works would be inauspicious , they won't even bother to conduct the research in the first place . I think they realize that the research is feasible and it would be so cool to know the outcome of the research .

All of the Jesus stories were made up by Christians that came long after Jesus died. The first gospel was written about 40 years after he died by an unknown person until the early church father like Papias and Ireaneus ascribed a name to ot to give it legitimacy. Which perter wrote down his own letters? The authorship remains contested by scholars.

Going by this logic , any story that comes years after the event or period of the time is made up . Right ?

I don't care about them. If there is any claim to these stories that need my attention I will examine them and criticize or debunk where necessary.

I'm just trying to put the shame the logic behind your claim . Most of these stories about historical events and historical figures were written years and centuries after the events took place and the said persons lived . If you question the verity of these historical accounts of Christ because they came after Christ's death , then its logical to question the veracity of every historical account of historical figures and event . Right ?

What is this? Are you now crying? What are the claims made by Confucius that needs to be debunked by atheist?

You are clearly missing the point or feigning ignorance as usual .

Thrash, Christ thought love and hate at the same time. His love was extended only to those that believe in his message, hate, condemnation and destruction was what he taught against people that refused to accept his message and claims. Read the bible, it's filled with cruelty, death, destruction, racism, misogyny, death, love, kindness, hope, uprightness, etc. It is a mix bag and this reflects in the life of christians throughout history till date.

Evidence for this claim lets scrutinize it .

Lies? Is there any truth to be found in the religion you were indoctrinated with? You believe in stories written by mostly unknown men about some elusive character, you believe in a theology created by other men about some religion that they created to enslave people's minds and you still have the audacity to talk about mental enslavement. You are ridiculous.

These theological concepts are up for scrutiny they have arguments for and against them by other theologians . Every concept that I have come across is buttress by evidence , logic and reason . The stories of Christ have been supported by strong evidence . You are fighting a lost battle my dear friend .

4kings:

What sort of delusion is this?
I had to read the link you posted, their tests is based of bones that they somehow thought was from John the Baptist. SMH
Guess what this bones were found in Bulgaria.
Where the Bleep was John the baptist slaughtered according to the Bible.
Accoridng to livescience.com, this bones was traced to be of middleeastern descendants however, so far that's the only reason they somehow linked this to John the baptist.

You are just asking random questions which gives you the illusion of skepticism . Anyway , whatever the reasons why those bones were said to be those of John the Baptist by the experts must have been very strong and valid .

How did the remains of a man slaughtered by a king get to Bulgaria.

Joseph died in Egypt but he was buried in Shechem .So what exactly is your point ?

That's not even the main issue, DNA decays rapidly overtime, so how the bloody hell, could someone think of getting the dna of jesus family.

Expert 4kings can tell the scientists they have no idea about what they have chosen to embark on . I think they'll see the point you are making and stop the research immediately .

Moreso, John the baptist was not related to jesus, Joseph and Mary were from the tribe of Judah, and Zechariah and Elizabeth were of Aaron (Levites).

Its right there in the bible that Elizabeth and Mary are related . It was also mentioned in the article . I mean you are always confused and strongly deluded so I'm certain you didn't just want to accept the truth .

Luke 1:36
36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

I don't want to even go any further, abeg stop cracking jokes.

Don't worry soon you'll be talking like you were beside Eusebius while he was forging the story of Jesus

dalaman:


You did.




Why are you crying?



Deism is a relatively new philosophy that started not too long ago. It basically states that there is a God that created the universe and doesn't interneve in it. It is very different from theism. Theism is not a single set of belief. So you can not ask me who started theism because it is not a single set of belief. You can only ask who started a particular type of theism.



Who is Jesus without the early Church fathers? Everything, the whole story was made up by the early Church fathers. If not for them there won't be any Jesus stories anywhere. They wrote down those stories many years after Jesus allegedly died. The first gospel that was ever written was the gospel of Mark, and it was anonymously written about 40 years after Jesus died until the early church fathers decided to name it the book of Mark. They chose all the books of the new testament and named them, theybalso formed the christian theology. Without them there will be no Jesus story in the first place. You only know about the Jesus stories because of them not because of any Jesus himself, because Jesus did not write down anything and was not a known figure during his time. The first story that was written about him came decades later by unknown people.




His life and commands ad was told by the early Church fathers. Without them there will be no Jesus stories.

Your problem is your innate inability to admit your ignorance.
You make a statement you cant back up and you start beating around the bush just because you want to defend that ignorant statement by all means.

You escaped with deism and theism got stuck in your throat.
And you started coughing up and down.
Mscheww.