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Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by italo: 9:01am On Apr 22, 2017 |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by PastorAIO: 9:17am On Apr 22, 2017 |
shadeyinka: You assume wrong. |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by Ubenedictus(m): 9:26am On Apr 22, 2017 |
MZLady39:Then who were the early xtians. |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by PastorAIO: 9:26am On Apr 22, 2017 |
shadeyinka: But canonisation of scriptures is pertinent especially as you've conferred all authority in Christian matters away from the church onto to bible. I'm also curious as to how you became familiar with Jewish fashion and roman fashions of antiquity. How do you know that priestly garb is not similar to Jewish priestly garb? |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by PastorAIO: 9:40am On Apr 22, 2017 |
Following your reasoning... Jesus didn't start Christianity. After all we know when it started. Christianity started in Antioch where the term was first coined. Mcowubaba: 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by italo: 9:48am On Apr 22, 2017 |
shadeyinka:Since you have suddenly bolted from DoctorAlien's concoction, let us wait for him to answer. shadeyinka:When was this? shadeyinka: How do you know? shadeyinka: When? |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by italo: 9:51am On Apr 22, 2017 |
PastorAIO: Shadeyinka, according to your reasoning, would you agree that Jesus didnt start Christianity? 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by Ubenedictus(m): 10:00am On Apr 22, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:2. You claim the Catholic Church changed the Bible by adding the 'Apocryphal' books in 1548. But those apocryphal books were listed in the 397AD Council of Carthage's Canon, which you claim was an identification of the canon that existed already. So which one is true. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by Ubenedictus(m): 10:02am On Apr 22, 2017 |
newbornmacho:So protestanism didnt begin in d 1500s? what is d blasphemy or is that ur favorite exclamation? |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by Ubenedictus(m): 10:08am On Apr 22, 2017 |
Mcowubaba:there was doctrine and the church had leaders with d bishop of rome as primate but no denominations, protestants began tha abberation. Jesus was not/never a Catholic..u know this because...? Catholics are on their own, same with dozens of other denomination.i guess u count urself among d few christians abi? |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by Mcowubaba: 11:04am On Apr 22, 2017 |
Ubenedictus:The Church had leaders not a Bishop in the time of the Apostles, after Jesus ascended into heaven. Jesus Christ was never a Catholic and can't be a Catholic, bring any Bible scripture that backs up ur claim.. Jesus Christ was sent by God to save and redeem the world from condemnation, I don't know when HE became a Catholic member ![]() Jesus Christ is the Savior nd not a Catholic member.. Catholic denomination is MAN MADE, not DIVINE, Jesus Christ is DIVINE, know the difference.. Don't personalise Jesus Christ to the Catholic Church, that would be blasphemy. Jesus Christ is Lord over all, and came as a MORTAL (not as a Catholic) to save ALL I don't count myself as amongst the few Christians, in fact I'm more LOGICAL than RELIGIOUS. You can carry the title of *Christian* that's your business, I'm not interested All I know is that both Catholics and many other denominations are serving themselves not GOD. PastorAIO:Oga, I never opined that Jesus Christ didn't start Christianity. What is even Christianity - the name Christianity/Christian was given to "Followers of Jesus Christ" by unbelievers, it was like a nick name.. When they (unbelievers) saw people practicing Jesus Christ's teaching, principles, ways etc they said see this people doing like Christ, that's the origin of the name Christianity. (Go and read Acts 11:25-27) observe closely what happened in Antioch. Christian simply means Christ like, follower of Christ.. Go and read the Etymology of Christianity. So it would be insane for anyone to argue that Christianity wasn't started by Jesus Christ. Just like APC followers/supporters are called Zombie, while PDP supporters are called wailers. Catholics worship Mary and pray to her. Mary is mortal.. She can't answer your prayers or request. |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by DoctorAlien(m): 11:08am On Apr 22, 2017 |
italo: The many churches in the parts of the then-known world had copies of one or more of the NT epistles, Gospels and maybe the book of Revelations. These books of the New Testament were generally held as Scripture then and were used by the churches. This was sixty years before the formation of the catholic church in 314 A.D. The catholic church simply gathered in the council of Carthage to agree that all those books were regarded as canon by concensus of use were canon. The catholic church added apocrypha the Bible in the council of Trent(1548), simply because they seem to support their unbiblical practices. |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 11:14am On Apr 22, 2017 |
italo: In the real sense, Jesus didn't start Christianity: He was the nucleus/the focus of what is called Christianity. Apart from teaching the Believers a model prayer, Jesus didn't focus on religion: He focused on men having a relationship with the Father. Christianity is the Religious aspect of the "Relationship" He paid the price for us to have. Except being a "christian" is enough to take one to heaven. Without Jesus, there would be no religion called Christianity and of cause no group of people called "little Christ's" 1 Like |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 11:17am On Apr 22, 2017 |
italo: Check historical records and jewish culture |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 11:23am On Apr 22, 2017 |
PastorAIO: Canonization of the scripture is NOT the same as authoring the scriptures. You will agree with me that the books of the new testament were in circulation among the churches and a time came (much later) to prevent heresies from creeping in the books had to be canonised. If canonisation didn't happen, maybe the New testament would have contained so much fabrications. Have you heard of the book called "the Gospel according to Barnabas"? About Fashion, check traditional Jewish dresses. The information is available..google is your friend Interestingly, l grew up with an "Art Historian": too many books with pictures to read |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by DoctorAlien(m): 11:25am On Apr 22, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: The apocryphal books were not canon before 397 A.D. going by concensus of use. And since the catholic church only gathered in the council of Carthage simply to recognize as canon those books which were already canon by concensus of use, we know then that the apocryphal books were not even thought of in that council. I know. I know. I know how the catholic church can manufacture forged documents as evidence to support their lies. So, don't even bother showing me any evidence of the council of Carthage listing the apocryphal books as canon. 1 Like |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 11:29am On Apr 22, 2017 |
PastorAIO: Forgive my assumption. You actually sound like one |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by blackbriar: 11:43am On Apr 22, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: What do you mean by "you know the church can manufacture forged documents",you guys are just anti-catholic fanatics. Have you ever worked with the church in any means( diocesan or vatican) and they gave you forged documents? Have you?Going by your argument that means the Bible is a forged document . Is it? 2 Likes |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 11:45am On Apr 22, 2017 |
italo: Intersting read: However, you always contrast Catholic vs Protestant and this prevent you from seeing that you did not invent history. Permit me to paste this from Wikipedia:
So, you can see that your historical records could be biased. Are the Orthodox Christians under the authority of the Pope? If they are not Catholics, then your dispute should be with the Orthodox Christians. |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by PastorAIO: 11:57am On Apr 22, 2017 |
Are you Shadeyinka? Oops! Na you even write the post wey I respond to. Okay, now using your own same reasoning consider this: Catholic just means universal therefore Catholic Church spread out over the earth like 'Kingdom of heaven' that Jesus described. Christian means Christ follower. Bcatholic means universal. These two words are not mutually exclusive. Mcowubaba: |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by PastorAIO: 11:59am On Apr 22, 2017 |
shadeyinka: No wahala! Sebi they are human beings too. |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 12:00pm On Apr 22, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: You needn't get upset by the statement quoted. The early Apostles never put on the kind of robes put on by the catholic priests. They wore their normal day to day dress. If Jesus didn't put on a priestly robe, His disciples did not have any reason to. It would have been illegal for Jesus to even put on the Jewish priestly robes at his time. So, what example would Peter be following. You should know that the religious ceremonies taken fore granted now were not possible in the catacombs. A Bishop was supposed to be a husband of one wife ..NOT celebrate. Mybfriend, there is a huge difference. Pls check out: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Orthodox_Church 1 Like |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by Mcowubaba: 12:06pm On Apr 22, 2017 |
PastorAIO: ![]() ![]() ![]() Oga go to my profile My moniker is over 4 years old, and I'm very active on Nairaland. If you have no other logical and sensible argument on this topic, I think you should not quote me again. Thanks EDITED... I just read some of Shadeyinka's comments on this topic, we have similar thoughts.. No wonder you got us mixed up ![]() You're FORGIVEN. 1 Like |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by PastorAIO: 12:18pm On Apr 22, 2017 |
I see no correlation of the priestly garb of the roman pagan priests and the priestly garb of the Catholic Church, There were very many books and letters in circulation amongst early Christians. Canonisation occurred to stop the spread if heresies. I agree. The criteria for selecting books was in tws of their theology/doctrine. Those text whose doctrines were not acceptable to the church were rejected. I think the matter of fabrications mattered less than the matter of doctrine. shadeyinka: |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by PastorAIO: 12:19pm On Apr 22, 2017 |
Mcowubaba: Please read my post again. It has been amended. |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by DoctorAlien(m): 12:39pm On Apr 22, 2017 |
blackbriar: Here is a true Roman Catholic who doesn't know jack about his church and what they can do. He gobbles down whatever he is fed by the priests. ![]() ![]() Bro, the Roman Catholic church has forged many documents and writings, and edited countless others, simply to lend credence to whatever lies they've decided to teach their flock. The Catholic encyclopedia even admits these forgeries! The Donation of Constantine is only one, and a good example, of such forgeries. You can read about the Donation of Constantine on Wikipedia. 1 Like |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by italo: 12:54pm On Apr 22, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: Please mention just one of these your "many Churches" that existed before 314AD and provide evidence. Also, where is your evidence of what you claimed happened at the Council of Carthage? Which books were agreed on at the council? DoctorAlien:Please provide evidence of this. Again, the books were already in the bible at the Council of Carthage. If the books were added in 1548 by the Catholic Church, how come the Orthodox Church that had a Schism with the Catholic Church in 1054 have them in their Bible? You're contradicting yourself simply because you're wrong. 5 Likes |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by italo: 1:11pm On Apr 22, 2017 |
shadeyinka:So who started Christianity, and when did it start? shadeyinka:Oh! Only a relationship with the Father and 'Our Father' prayer. So who built the Church? Who started the idea of baptism, communion? Whose idea was it that one man - Peter should feed the flock? Who chose 12 men and made them foundation for the kingdom? shadeyinka: When did this religious aspect start? |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by DoctorAlien(m): 1:41pm On Apr 22, 2017 |
italo:The church in Corinth, the church in Ephesus, the church in Galatia, etc. Also, where is your evidence of what you claimed happened at the Council of Carthage? Which books were agreed on at the council?Walter A. Elwell, "Evangelical Dictionary of Theology" (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1984), page 141. Again, the books were already in the bible at the Council of Carthage. If the books were added in 1548 by the Catholic Church, how come the Orthodox Church that had a Schism with the Catholic Church in 1054 have them in their Bible? We know that the council of Carthage met to recognize properly as canon those books that were already canon by concensus of use. Did Christians even around the time of Origen use the book of Maccabees or Sirach? The answer is NO. So, you have no point. 1 Like |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by PastorAIO: 1:42pm On Apr 22, 2017 |
italo: Please, what institution was Jesus referring to in Matthew 18:17 |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 1:42pm On Apr 22, 2017 |
PastorAIO:There were other factors used to determine if an ancient "church writing" should be canonized. Like: 1. Can they be traced to the Apostles in authorship? 2. Or were the writings in circulation during the times of the Apostles? 3. Was it written in the lifetime of the generation that saw or moved with Jesus? Of course there were some heretic teachings too of which the church must be careful not to mix with the holy writ. I believe they did a fairly good job. |
Re: Were The Early Christians Roman Catholics? by shadeyinka(m): 1:47pm On Apr 22, 2017 |
PastorAIO: Greek word is ekklésia which means the assembly. In proper context, the church as we know it started in the upper room in the book of Acts. |
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