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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The Absurdities Of Free Will. (2773 Views)
God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. / Why Were We Given Free Will Which Could Still Lead Us To Hell? / Still On The Absurdities Inherent In The Bible (2) (3) (4)
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Julivas(m): 9:19am On May 02, 2017 |
An2elect2: Wow!... Brilliant submission indeed. All right sister in Christ, all being said, I know that you are a decent lady and intelligent one, but do you know that some of your mates out there are into dubious acts such as prostitution. Don't you think that as you choose to be brilliant and intelligent, some of them have with the power of free will choose to go into prostitution for instance. |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 6:55pm On May 02, 2017 |
Julivas:I am who I am by the grace of God |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by 5solas(m): 12:59pm On May 06, 2017 |
freeradical:She is saying we are saved because we we chosen, ordained , appointed to be saved.
1 Like |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by 5solas(m): 1:32pm On May 06, 2017 |
Julivas:To attempt to match your anology closer to what Christ did, let us suppose this wealthy man, for this 60% that took his offer up, provided incentives for this 60% (and them alone) that made it inevitable that they would take up his offer. 1 Like |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by 5solas(m): 1:39pm On May 06, 2017 |
CandidSeeker:You ignore the fact that God chose from eternity all those who presently are in faith. |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Julivas(m): 6:13pm On May 06, 2017 |
5solas:Assuming all if them grabbed the opportunity, they will all also enjoy the incentive. |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by 5solas(m): 10:09pm On May 06, 2017 |
Julivas:The assumption is non-existent. In this anology you will find that all who ''grab'' the opportunity are all who had the incentives. Romans 8 |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by 5solas(m): 10:18pm On May 06, 2017 |
Julivas:Unfortunately all of them are not given this incentive. So the assumption does not hold. What is clear is that all who grab the opportunity will always be of that 60%. 1 Like |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by ichuka(m): 10:47pm On May 06, 2017 |
5solas:John17:12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. 1 Like |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by 5solas(m): 5:56am On May 07, 2017 |
ichuka:Precisely my point. Those that come are those GIVEN to Him. Those GIVEN to Him are drawn to Him (the incentive ) . John6:44,65. Good to hear from you bro. Ichuka. 1 Like |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by ichuka(m): 1:42pm On May 07, 2017 |
5solas:Same here Bro.5solas Maybe it's time to Refresh some of your old thread for new believers . 1 Like |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by freeradical(m): 2:53pm On May 07, 2017 |
5solas:So God is now partial by preselecting us even before the beginning for salvation and leaving the rest of humanity doomed for destruction. See why I say you guys should look up to the teaching body of the Church to guide your interpretation of sacred Scripture. God's omniscient nature is the reason behind those passages you guys are misconstruing for predestination. When we say God is omniscient it's because he exists outside time. So he knows the end even from the beginning. In the end he has seen it all play out and this inspired the writings we hold sacred as scripture. Everything that is written exists in time. So God knows about it. This doesn't mean he directly interferes with our choices. He respects them so much that he made us masters of our own destinies. If u deceive yourself that because u think u were chosen and you fail to live justly u will suffer the loss of your soul. So let's be Wise and pray to God for the strength to follow him all the way to the end, trusting not in our own righteousness but in his bountiful, merciful and awesome saving power. God bless you all |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by 5solas(m): 3:37pm On May 07, 2017 |
ichuka:That's good! I will do that, by His grace. 1 Like |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by 5solas(m): 10:45pm On May 08, 2017 |
freeradical:I hope one day you will be so ashamed of the above, you will delete it. You are appealing to sentiments and aligning yourself to popular belief while you ignore the word of God. Did the choice of the Israelites over the other nations make God unfair? Did the choice of Jesus disciples make God unfair? The choice of Saul? The healing of the Syrian Naaman? The feeding of the widow at Zarephath? (Lk 4:26) If your answer is ''no'', then why would He be unfair to choose anyone for salvation? We read in Ephesians 1:3-5 that He chose us before the foundation of the world. It follows that any who are in faith are of that number of persons so chosen. For more on this read Acts 2:47;13:48; John 6:44,45;10:26;17:2,6,9-12,24; 2 Th 2:13 e.t.c We don't need that when we have verses so clear: Romans 8 Those called according to His purpose are foreknown, predestinated,called (in time), justified and glorified. Of course the glorification is future but certain. The delusion ''freewill'' gives its adherents is obvious from the bolded. We are chosen to be holy. Saved to show forth God's good works. This is not in contention. Focus on ''freewill''!
Lol at the bolded. You are correct here but glaringly inconsistent with the rest of your post. Why should we not trust in that which makes us ''masters of our own destinies''. I avow that it is worthy of worship! Lol. God bless you! 1 Like |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 8:31am On May 09, 2017 |
freeradical:You are "playing safe". "Playing safe" isn't a Christian thing! 1 Like
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Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by CANTICLES: 5:15pm On May 09, 2017 |
An2elect2:@ bold, Is Judas Iscariot Saved ? |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 6:14pm On May 09, 2017 |
CANTICLES:John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 1 Like |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by CANTICLES: 7:01pm On May 09, 2017 |
An2elect2: Very Good. Now lets refer back to the Op Absurdity 101 * Jesus died for everyone...but everyone is not saved [/hr] You mean Judas is not saved ? So aren't you sharing in propagating the same Thing you called Absurdity ? 1 Like |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by michaelwestern(m): 8:52pm On May 09, 2017 |
An2elect2: Then how do you explain this verses. Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men. Note that it says all men. 1 Timothy 2:4 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. The Who here is God. So if according to you, the will of God in salvation supercedes our own. Then why is it that when God wants all men to be saved, all men are not saved? 1 Like |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by michaelwestern(m): 9:14pm On May 09, 2017 |
5solas: Wow! So why then do we have to preach to people if those that are destined to be saved will be saved irrespective of our preaching to them? This is a very dangerous doctrine and surprisingly am hearing it for the first time. 1 Like |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by 5solas(m): 9:52pm On May 09, 2017 |
michaelwestern:The bolded, is your own deduction.It is faulty. Paul said the same thing and yet urged preaching. Preaching is needful firstly, because we are commanded to preach. Secondly, it is the means by which God saves those whom He has chosen (the elects). 2 Tim.2 10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. It was the teaching of the reformers. This is why they were so hated. 1 Like |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 9:25am On May 10, 2017 |
CANTICLES:Lol. If Judas wasn't saved, it means Christ didn't die for him. Simple |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by CANTICLES: 10:32am On May 10, 2017 |
An2elect2: How do you reconcile the bold with the below? " he [ Jesus] suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. " Heb 2:9 EVERYONE include Judas, does it not ? Jesus " gave himself a corresponding ransom for ALL - this is what is to be witnessed to in its own time " 1 Tim 2:6 ALL clearly include Judas, does it not ? 1 Like |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 4:40pm On May 10, 2017 |
CANTICLES:"Everyone" or "every man" means all God has given Christ not every individual to walk this earth. This is in concordance with many scriptures that show particular redemption. Let's look at the passage you quoted. From Hebrews 2:9-17 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the childrenwhich God hath given me. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. There is the full message. Your view= Everyone means every individual that has ever lived. Bible view= Everyone is all the children God gave Christ. Confirmation: Apart from the facts of particular redemption expressly stated in the Bible, Christ death is the only thing that reconciles men to God. No freewill or works is needed for it to be effective. vs14,15. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. If no "freewill" or "works" is needed to perfect Christ's suffering and death, it then means God must by the death of Christ give life to those Christ died for in time. THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS TO BE BORN AGAIN. it is after men are born that they receive Christ. John 1:12,13.
[i] You know it doesn't. If Christ's death is sufficient enough to save a man, that man must be saved. So if he died for all men who ever lived like you think all men must be saved. Because Christ took the death of all he died for and gave them his life. How can they perish still? 1timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Only God has the power to save and bring all men to the knowledge of the truth. Not only does God desire this, He has willed it. First, Christ gave himself a ransom for all. And then the life he purchased with His blood is being given to all men. Since not everyone is given this life, we know "all" does not mean all men that have existed. |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by CANTICLES: 5:37pm On May 10, 2017 |
An2elect2: Stop twisting the scripture to your own destruction, EVERYONE and ALL in those two scripture is clear . "He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours alone, but also for the sins of the whole world." - 1 John 2:2. He died for the WHOLE WORLD, Is Judas not part of the whole world ? Reply 2 Likes |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by ichuka(m): 12:43am On May 11, 2017 |
CANTICLES:Matt13:3Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9Whoever has ears, let them hear.” My Brother why would the Farmer sow on Road side,Rocky ground and Thorns knowing fully well they won't yield Fruits? Remember the Seed was scattered ALL OVER THE GROUND indicating Redemption is for the whole world(not just His children ) You know the Seed is the Word of God and the Grounds are the Hearts of Men. The Good Soil typifies the new Heart God gives to His children(EZIKEL36:26) without a new heart believing in Christ is impossible. Let's also look at Romans. Romans8:19For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it,... in hope 21thath the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God....,, Creation 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the "REDEMPTION" of our bodies. ... So apart from believers Creation(unbelievers and everything created that has been corupted) groans also to be set free from the bondage of corruption. The Redemptive work of our Lord is for the whole creation of God. Remember Creation being freed doesn't make them Sons/Daughters of God. |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 10:01am On May 11, 2017 |
CANTICLES:It's clear you don't want a Bible interpretation! |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by CANTICLES: 12:42pm On May 11, 2017 |
An2elect2: and Prove that your own statement made on May 10 at 9:25am is Biblical. "Lol. If Judas wasn't saved, it means Christ didn't die for him . Simple " - An2elect2 Based on your postulation above, it means Christ died for a selected few, But 1 john 2:2 says he died not for few But the Whole world , Now am asking you : Is Judas part of the whole World ? Reply to this, and lets confirm if your own statement is biblical. 2 Likes |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by CANTICLES: 12:52pm On May 11, 2017 |
ichuka: Thanks Sir, For the bolded references ... compare with this statement. " If Judas wasn't saved, it means Christ didn't die for him. Simple " does it Rhyme ? 2 Likes |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by ichuka(m): 4:05pm On May 11, 2017 |
CANTICLES:Lol You have to answer our question yourself WHY WOULD THE FARMER SOW ON ROAD SIDE,ROCKY GROUND AND THORNS KNOWING FULLY WELL THEY WONT YEILD FRUIT? Brother you can answer your own question Also bear in mind Mathew13:11He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13This is why I speak to them in parables: While answering |
Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Nobody: 10:16pm On Jun 27, 2017 |
It is basically useless to argue on d doctrine of predestination Wesley and Whitfield tried it it proved futile coming to no head.there is only one thing needful HOLINESS.it doesn't matter wat ide u are on what matters is the life u live .there are biblical truths DAT will b hidden from mortals till d last day. |
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