An2elect2:
Hi. Same to you!
2Corinthians 5:15
And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

Notice: His death alone is the reason they would no longer live for themselves. It is not whether they will or will not it is that they will certainly live for him.

His death was not to make us "savable" but to save us. What then? some are not saved! Is God a liar? God forbid. If we have seen that Christ's death is enough to save a sinner without any contribution from him (be it his will or work) then it must follow that Christ did not die for everyman. So all must mean "all his elect/sheep" and not "all individuals"

[At first glance it seems this verse supports the freewiller's stance but when we weigh it in the light of the complete word of God, we see what it truly means.]

Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your bloodyou purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

Matthew 1:21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,
because he willsave his peoplefrom their sins.”
John 10:15
just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.
John 6:37-40 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Isaiah 53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.

Isaiah 53:1,12 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.

Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

2 Corinthians 5:21 He made Him (Christ) who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”


Christ became a substitute for many. In that instead of them bearing their sins he bore all for them. It was on the cross that all their sins where judged. They cannot be judged for sin again. It is finished!

"Bible reveals Jesus’ death on the cross was intentional and had a definite purpose that it succeeded in accomplishing"

FREE WILL PUTS GOD AT THE MERCY OF MEN(God is placed on trial) BUT GRACE PUTS MEN AT THE MERCY OF GOD.


I am who I am by the grace of God.

Julivas:


Wow!...
Brilliant submission indeed.
All right sister in Christ, all being said, I know that you are a decent lady and intelligent one, but do you know that some of your mates out there are into dubious acts such as prostitution.
Don't you think that as you choose to be brilliant and intelligent, some of them have with the power of free will choose to go into prostitution for instance.

freeradical:
Are you saying that we are all saved irrespective of what our life choices are simply because Christ died for us on the cross.

Is that what u understand by us being justified by Christ's sacrifice for us on the cross?

Acts 13:48 When the gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord. Meanwhile, all who had been destined to eternal life believed,


2The. 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Julivas:


Happy Sunday

Look at it this way:

A wealthy individual in a certain community went into an agreement with an institution of vocational learning to sponsor all the youths in that community to learn a trade.

An announcement was made regarding this in the community so that all will be aware and take action.

At the end of registration period, only 60% of the youth population showed interest.

Now the question is, has the wealthy man not paid for the entire population of the youth?

Yes, he has paid for all.

What made the remaining 40% not to register in the institute?

Self will.

CandidSeeker:


He gave you a Spirit-led analogy, and you will do yourself a lot of good, if you can take your time to study The Gospels all over again, paying fresh attention to The Words of Jesus Christ.

Choice has a role to play in the matter.

-Peace.

5solas:

To attempt to match your anology closer to what Christ did, let us suppose this wealthy man, for this 60% that took his offer up, provided incentives for this 60% (and them alone) that made it inevitable that they would take up his offer.

Julivas:

Assuming all if them grabbed the opportunity, they will all also enjoy the incentive.

Romans 8
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Julivas:

Assuming all if them grabbed the opportunity, they will all also enjoy the incentive.

5solas:

Unfortunately all of them are not given this incentive. So the assumption does not hold. What is clear is that all who grab the opportunity will always be of that 60%.

ichuka:

John17:12
While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

5solas:

Precisely my point. Those that come are those GIVEN to Him. Those GIVEN to Him are drawn to Him (the incentive ) .
John6:44,65.
Good to hear from you bro. Ichuka.

5solas:

She is saying we are saved because we we chosen, ordained , appointed to be saved.

ichuka:

Same here Bro.5solas
Maybe it's time to Refresh some of your old thread for new believers .

freeradical:
So God is now partial by preselecting us even before the beginning for salvation and leaving the rest of humanity doomed for destruction.

See why I say you guys should look up to the teaching body of the Church to guide your interpretation of sacred Scripture. God's omniscient nature is the reason behind those passages you guys are misconstruing for predestination. When we say God is omniscient it's because he exists outside time. So he knows the end even from the beginning. In the end he has seen it all play out and this inspired the writings we hold sacred as scripture.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Everything that is written exists in time. So God knows about it. This doesn't mean he directly interferes with our choices. He respects them so much that he made us masters of our own destinies. If u deceive yourself that because u think u were chosen and you fail to live justly u will suffer the loss of your soul.

So let's be Wise and pray to God for the strength to follow him all the way to the end, trusting not in our own righteousness but in his bountiful, merciful and awesome saving power.

God bless you all

freeradical:
So God is now partial by preselecting us even before the beginning for salvation and leaving the rest of humanity doomed for destruction.

See why I say you guys should look up to the teaching body of the Church to guide your interpretation of sacred Scripture. God's omniscient nature is the reason behind those passages you guys are misconstruing for predestination. When we say God is omniscient it's because he exists outside time. So he knows the end even from the beginning. In the end he has seen it all play out and this inspired the writings we hold sacred as scripture.

Everything that is written exists in time. So God knows about it. This doesn't mean he directly interferes with our choices. He respects them so much that he made us masters of our own destinies. If u deceive yourself that because u think u were chosen and you fail to live justly u will suffer the loss of your soul.

So let's be Wise and pray to God for the strength to follow him all the way to the end, trusting not in our own righteousness but in his bountiful, merciful and awesome saving power.

God bless you all

An2elect2:

But by implication you are saying just that.
Let's face the matter: Is Christ's death enough for the salvation of a sinner. That's what the Bible says.

Then if so, he cannot be saved by his choice but by grace.

If I ask you now. Why are you saved and the other not saved. You would say what you have been saying "I did choose to be saved while the other did not choose to be saved" You won't say this "It is Grace that saved me. I am who I am by the grace of God." But that's the difference between self-righteous and true righteousness.



[i] Check all my threads. I've become a diligent student of the Bible by God's grace. And what I'm saying is what our fathers in the faith have been saying, they are what the apostle Paul preached, they are what the first Christians knew. Test all I've been saying. Search the scriptures honestly and tell me if I've been lying

This is what I believed too when I wasn't studying the Bible but I'm now repenting from all of them because they are not scriptural

CANTICLES:

@ bold, Is Judas Iscariot Saved ?

An2elect2:
John 17:12

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

An2elect2:
I am who I am by the grace of God

5solas:

Unfortunately all of them are not given this incentive. So the assumption does not hold. What is clear is that all who grab the opportunity will always be of that 60%.

michaelwestern:


Wow! So why then do we have to preach to people if those that are destined to be saved will be saved irrespective of our preaching to them?

This is a very dangerous doctrine and surprisingly am hearing it for the first time.

CANTICLES:


Very Good.

Now lets refer back to the Op

Absurdity 101
* Jesus died for everyone...but everyone is not saved

---

[/hr]

You mean Judas is not saved ? So aren't you sharing in propagating the same Thing you called Absurdity ?

An2elect2:
Lol. If Judas wasn't saved, it means Christ didn't die for him . Simple

CANTICLES:


How do you reconcile the bold with the below?


" he [ Jesus] suffered death, so that by the grace of God he
might taste death for everyone. " Heb 2:9

EVERYONE include Judas, does it not ?

An2elect2:
"Everyone" or "every man" means all God has given Christ not every individual to walk this earth. This is in concordance with many scriptures that show particular redemption.

Let's look at the passage you quoted. From Hebrews 2:9-17

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the childrenwhich God hath given me.
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

There is the full message.

Your view= Everyone means every individual that has ever lived.
Bible view= Everyone is all the children God gave Christ.

Confirmation: Apart from the facts of particular redemption expressly stated in the Bible, Christ death is the only thing that reconciles men to God. No freewill or works is needed for it to be effective.

vs14,15. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

If no "freewill" or "works" is needed to perfect Christ's suffering and death, it then means God must by the death of Christ give life to those Christ died for in time. THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS TO BE BORN AGAIN. it is after men are born that they receive Christ. John 1:12,13.




[i] You know it doesn't. If Christ's death is sufficient enough to save a man, that man must be saved.
So if he died for all men who ever lived like you think all men must be saved. Because Christ took the death of all he died for and gave them his life. How can they perish still?

1timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Only God has the power to save and bring all men to the knowledge of the truth. Not only does God desire this, He has willed it.
First, Christ gave himself a ransom for all. And then the life he purchased with His blood is being given to all men. Since not everyone is given this life, we know "all" does not mean all men that have existed.

CANTICLES:


Stop twisting the scripture to your own destruction, EVERYONE and ALL in those two scripture is clear .


"He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins,
and not for ours alone, but also for the sins of
the whole world." - 1 John 2:2.

He died for the WHOLE WORLD, Is Judas not part of the whole world ? Reply

CANTICLES:


Stop twisting the scripture to your own destruction, EVERYONE and ALL in those two scripture is clear .


"He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins,
and not for ours alone, but also for the sins of
the whole world." - 1 John 2:2.

He died for the WHOLE WORLD, Is Judas not part of the whole world ? Reply

An2elect2:
It's clear you don't want a Bible interpretation!

ichuka:

Matt13:3Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

My Brother why would the Farmer sow on Road side,Rocky ground and Thorns knowing fully well they won't yield Fruits?
Remember the Seed was scattered ALL OVER THE GROUND indicating Redemption is for the whole world(not just His children )
You know the Seed is the Word of God and the Grounds are the Hearts of Men.
The Good Soil typifies the new Heart God gives to His children(EZIKEL36:26) without a new heart believing in Christ is impossible.
Let's also look at Romans.
Romans8:19For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it,...

in hope 21thath the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God....,,
Creation
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the "REDEMPTION" of our bodies. ...
So apart from believers Creation(unbelievers and everything created that has been corupted) groans also to be set free from the bondage of corruption.
The Redemptive work of our Lord is for the whole creation of God.
Remember Creation being freed doesn't make them Sons/Daughters of God.

CANTICLES:


Thanks Sir, For the bolded references ... compare with this statement.

" If Judas wasn't saved, it means Christ didn't die
for him. Simple "

does it Rhyme ?