abdulwastecx:


you can have a sizeable three bedroom flat with good space to pack 3 vehicle in front of the building.

something like this can enter the plot comfortably:
three bedroom each : 12ft x 12ft
three toilet each : 4 x 8ft
kitchen : 8ft x 8ft
dining : 8ft x 8ft
living room : 16 x 14ft
store : 4 x 4ft

total floor area = 1024square feet
plot size = 2000square feet

How many size and quantity of blocks that can be produced with one bag bag of cement?
Making your own blocks or buying already made blocks from block industries which one is cheaper?

i have seen a duplex been plastered for 900k

over all super clean and neat job.

i have seen another one been done for 480k.. over all: client has to called another plasterer to amend the numerous mistakes..

Marilo:


Skimanski, I don't think the question is about "chopping",it should be about fairness. If it's about chopping everybody and anybody can charge anything and that will be taken hook, line and sinker. How does the owner "chop" if it's about "chopping"?.

Again,why isn't there some sort of standard as to pricing. To tell you my experience,I have seen some kind of ridiculous quote that can only make me think/ask "does this guy think I am a fool?". Irrespective of professionalism involved, except there are some differences in materials to be bought, there should be some yardstick to standardise charges so that all parties are fair to one another.

Standard in costing? Well, I think every job is different, and comes with their own type of challenges. There are areas where security is an issue, and workers will be afraid to work there, there are places materials cannot get into easily, delaying the work and keeping workers on site longer. These things also affect pricing. Same as skills.

What we were trying to say is that good workers will always charge more, and if we that hire them and don't at least come up in our pricing, they will leave and those that pretend will walk in, charge low and mess up the job.

The quality of the work done (or expected to be done) should be the determinant of costs paid.

twinskenny:
i have seen a duplex been plastered for 900k

over all super clean and neat job.

i have seen another one been done for 480k.. over all: client has to called another plasterer to amend the numerous mistakes..

Just what I was saying

Marilo:


Skimanski, I don't think the question is about "chopping",it should be about fairness. If it's about chopping everybody and anybody can charge anything and that will be taken hook, line and sinker. How does the owner "chop" if it's about "chopping"?.

Again,why isn't there some sort of standard as to pricing. To tell you my experience,I have seen some kind of ridiculous quote that can only make me think/ask "does this guy think I am a fool?". Irrespective of professionalism involved, except there are some differences in materials to be bought, there should be some yardstick to standardise charges so that all parties are fair to one another.

Anyway I stick to my comment. @rabcnesbit should stick to the quality the guy can give than the figure. He should only be concerned about the quality.

Let me use one example. I'm sure you own a Car, and that car cost Money. Base on the way I take dey look you, maybe you car cost up to N10m. Lets even say you drive a Toyota car that was sold by toyota for N2m. do you know the cost of producing that toyota is probably as low 500k. But the reason why the cost of the Production and the cost of sale which is alarmingly different isn't a problem for you is that toyota has already produced the car, and it's serving its purpose to you. you have everything properly done. its working very fine. you would even rather the Toyota car of N2m than the Kia of N1.2m, even though they both have 4 legs and both will get you to your location. That aside,its not your business what it cost these guys to make the car, what is your concern is how it serves your purpose.

Bottom line, @Excuzeme shouldn't advise that guy to put cost first before requirement. requirement first, then he should know what he's requirement will cost because like Oga spyder880 can relate, you can get someone to do it for any figure you want, but is what you want that matters.

spyder880:




Just what I was saying

if you want a good job look for a competent professional who has ages in experience...

i will open a thread regarding an electrical installations we are trying to correct presently.. the previous contractor make a mess of it.. stole the customers items and all that..

now he is paying more than he budgeted for which is very painful.


i quoted for a job some last year at ibadan labour 200k. another quoted for same job labour 80k, i told the owner to make a choice... he tried to force me to accept the 80k cause he love my job.. i told him if you want a good job it come with a price.. i dont hire labourer to do a professional job i have competent staff who i paid good money to work for me..


we did job and client was happy..

skimanski:



Anyway I stick to my comment. @rabcnesbit should stick to the quality the guy can give than the figure. He should only be concerned about the quality.

Let me use one example. I'm sure you own a Car, and that car cost Money. Base on the way I take dey look you, maybe you car cost up to N10m. Lets even say you drive a Toyota car that was sold by toyota for N2m. do you know the cost of producing that toyota is probably as low 500k. But the reason why the cost of the Production and the cost of sale which is alarmingly different isn't a problem for you is that toyota has already produced the car, and it's serving its purpose to you. you have everything properly done. its working very fine. you would even rather the Toyota car of N2m than the Kia of N1.2m, even though they both have 4 legs and both will get you to your location. That aside,its not your business what it cost these guys to make the car, what is your concern is how it serves your purpose.

Bottom line, @Excuzeme shouldn't advise that guy to put cost first before requirement. requirement first, then he should know what he's requirement will cost because like Oga spyder880 can relate, you can get someone to do it for any figure you want, but is what you want that matters.

spyder880:


Standard in costing? Well, I think every job is different, and comes with their own type of challenges. There are areas where security is an issue, and workers will be afraid to work there, there are places materials cannot get into easily, delaying the work and keeping workers on site longer. These things also affect pricing. Same as skills.

What we were trying to say is that good workers will always charge more, and if we that hire them and don't at least come up in our pricing, they will leave and those that pretend will walk in, charge low and mess up the job.

The quality of the work done (or expected to be done) should be the determinant of costs paid.

I would take it that the big guns are saying the same thing about "costing" /"pricing".

I have absolutely nothing against charging a "premium" for the risks involved as well as the experience that come into the job execution. But in all fairness, how do you as professionals in your field know that you're not being over-charged for the materials that you buy if not with standardisation?
How do you know how much you pay to your artisans if all you do is throw all yardsticks in the air and pay your workers without some level of parameters to know you're paying them commensurably?

Once again,I will give you an illustration and this is real life (about me and some over-rated professionals here). I asked a guru in the building/construction industry on property section to give me a quote about a duplex and he did gave me the quote which to my mind was absolutely inflated.In fact I could almost hear the inflated prices speak! This is premium charge or risks involved aside. Rather than get upset,I asked this professional to give me another quote, this time with an understanding that I'd buy the materials myself.....If I had known I wouldn't have bothered asking, this guy was outrageously silly in the quote!. In his own quote, he mentioned he was going to buy 3 tons of iron rods at some ridiculously alarming prices when he knew I was going to buy the iron rods myself, he quoted 5 tons! What is the risk involved in inflating materials quantities?

If we are looking to develop our country, we should imbibe the principle of fairness and objectivity. I understand that people can haggle over prices and some element of risks as well as premium service charge come into play but where does that leave the clients? Paying premium charges is not the same as being ridiculously unfair. I remember asking somebody to give a quote of fencing a plot of land, after listing out the materials as well as labour, he also included 1. CONTINGENCY CHARGES and 2. ADMIN CHARGES. Aside supervision/consultancy o! Haba!

Marilo:


Skimanski, I don't think the question is about "chopping",it should be about fairness. If it's about chopping everybody and anybody can charge anything and that will be taken hook, line and sinker. How does the owner "chop" if it's about "chopping"?.

Again,why isn't there some sort of standard as to pricing. To tell you my experience,I have seen some kind of ridiculous quote that can only make me think/ask "does this guy think I am a fool?". Irrespective of professionalism involved, except there are some differences in materials to be bought, there should be some yardstick to standardise charges so that all parties are fair to one another.

There is standard, but most client wouldn't want to follow standard because it may not favour them, QS professional are the best to tell us applicable standard. But to my little knowledge if you come across good Cotonou guys (cos there are fakes now ooo) they will never accept a wholesome negotiations for you never, they prefer pay as you go. Now, for internal plastering they will count 14 blocks in a row by 12 courses of block with one window dressing as a day job. externally 12 blocks also there ways to charge for special dressings, decking is charged as 10 x 12 ft room as a day job. Also in some cases some charge per square meter and linear meter for dressing but only few do this.

just in addition, I have seen some of this mason that will refuse to do additional job on the same day, I have seen a case where I have to pleaded with the masons to please do extra after their normal day job despite I am going to pay them but they refused they just wanted to concentrate on their day job and do it perfectly well knowing fully well that at the end of the day if their portion is not done well they will not get paid. But in a case someone took a plastering as a contract without considering if the amount will deliver a good job the he would have to forced his workers to do more than a day job. In this case they won't allow the plaster to dry very well before rubbing and shiny, they won't take time to range well before rubbing, they won't take time to dress the angle properly, they won't use brush finishing, they will not set gauge, they won't sieve the plaster sand all these are the necessity to have good plastering job, but when the measure of work given to a mason per day is more than. normal he would jump most of this process because he would want to finish and get paid at the end of the day.

A venture the guru,you nailed it, also others guru some cotonu are good while some of them are worst. Bcs we praised them more than what they delivered now you will see some of there oga will went back to their country to send more non skilled labour here and claimed they are good due to the level we put them here. go to abeokuta and see well skilled men....

Plastering comes in 2 types; Range and Gauge. Most masons give you the former and the pricing varies on the type. Gauge is mostly done on the exterior walls of the structure which also depends on how well aligned your block wall is- course after course. Plastering sand varies depending on your geographical location and except your mason is familiar with the environment where maybe the sand dump site from which the plastering sand comes from is filled with mud, dirts, etc,etc, he may likely not input the cost for sieving during bargaining. Every job quoted for, given and accepted by the Engineer/Professional/Artisan should meet good and acceptable standards. The amount quoted for does not necessarily mean a job will be done well, it all boils down to diligent workmen and strict supervisory roles. Every client should be able to ask questions and get favourable response and avoid contractors "sweet talk" you into giving them jobs.

Aventures:
There is standard, but most client wouldn't want to follow standard because it may not favour them, QS professional are the best to tell us applicable standard. But to my little knowledge if you come across good Cotonou guys (cos there are fakes now ooo) they will never accept a wholesome negotiations for you never, they prefer pay as you go. Now, for internal plastering they will count 14 blocks in a row by 12 courses of block with one window dressing as a day job. externally 12 blocks also there ways to charge for special dressings, decking is charged as 10 x 12 ft room as a day job. Also in some cases some charge per square meter and linear meter for dressing but only few do this.

You just nailed it with that in bold.

I am not going to advocate for clients who choose not to follow standards to "save cost". Reality is they are not and will not save cost if after they are told what the industry standard is.

Maybe the Quantity surveyors in the house can chip in what the acceptable standards are including a premium for those who know their onion.

Marilo:


Skimanski, I don't think the question is about "chopping",it should be about fairness. If it's about chopping everybody and anybody can charge anything and that will be taken hook, line and sinker. How does the owner "chop" if it's about "chopping"?.

Again,why isn't there some sort of standard as to pricing. To tell you my experience,I have seen some kind of ridiculous quote that can only make me think/ask "does this guy think I am a fool?". Irrespective of professionalism involved, except there are some differences in materials to be bought, there should be some yardstick to standardise charges so that all parties are fair to one another.

So many responses to my post...
Let me see if l can give a 'general' response instead of addressing each post separately, for time sake.

Not surprised, in Nigeria, its always about "Who can CHOP the other BEST".
Everybody tries their best to squeeze out as much as possible from the Client.....even when such borders on criminality!

When Dollar rose late/early this year, Sllers raised Prices, citing "Dollar ni o", as their excuse.
Even when we said they should no thave raised it that much or not immediately, since it did not affect all the "Old Stock" they have inside their Store, they declined, since they too "wan_Chop"!

Then the Dollar came crashing and yet, they refused to revert back to old prices, once again telling us that they are still selling "Old Stock" bough at high rate of Dollars!

Now, many months into the crash, they still will not bring down prices simply because "Everbody wan CHOP"!

Like you pointed out, it should all be about FAIRNESS to each other but hell No!
Our Greed is what makes us go to China and ask them to produce an inferior Auto Battery (with fewer cells and less capacity), label it as the one with Original Capacity and then tell the customer: "Oga, if you want Original e go cost you more o"!
He then doubles the Price .........and still gives ubsuspecting "Oga", the adulterated one!
He has just "chop" Oga.

Our level of GREED is unprecedented.

skimanski:



Anyway I stick to my comment. @rabcnesbit should stick to the quality the guy can give than the figure. He should only be concerned about the quality.

Let me use one example. I'm sure you own a Car, and that car cost Money. Base on the way I take dey look you, maybe you car cost up to N10m. Lets even say you drive a Toyota car that was sold by toyota for N2m. do you know the cost of producing that toyota is probably as low 500k. But the reason why the cost of the Production and the cost of sale which is alarmingly different isn't a problem for you is that toyota has already produced the car, and it's serving its purpose to you. you have everything properly done. its working very fine. you would even rather the Toyota car of N2m than the Kia of N1.2m, even though they both have 4 legs and both will get you to your location. That aside,its not your business what it cost these guys to make the car, what is your concern is how it serves your purpose.

Bottom line, @Excuzeme shouldn't advise that guy to put cost first before requirement. requirement first, then he should know what he's requirement will cost because like Oga spyder880 can relate, you can get someone to do it for any figure you want, but is what you want that matters.

\

Can ANYONE on this forum, tell us if they have paid over #1,200,000, to plaster a 3-bed, FOUR FLATS building?
I am sure no-one has done so, except maybe a Contractor like Skimanski --- It is not his money!

Ofcourse, @Skimanski can say: because l am good at plastering, l think l would charge #6Million for the same job, that shows how good l am!
Then @Aventures will say, "for me, it is #12Million for the same job, because l think l am better
@Spyder can even up the ante by saying okay, its either #18Million or nothing for me....... or dont you know the quality of my work?

Question is: Where does it stop and where is the FAIRNESS to the Customer here?

@Skimanski: QUALITY is 'given'.
it is expected of any Artisan/Contractor who is worth his salt, anything other than that makes the Artisan/Contractor a QUACK.

The only thing left to haggle about is the PRICE to be paid for the 'expected' quality job.
If l call you for a job, it is because l 'believe' you are professional, know what you are doing, you are well-trained and competent thus, QUALITY is expected and should be taken for granted!
It is because we have too many, poorly educated, incompetent and unprofessional QUACKS masquerading as Professional "Big Guns" in the industry, that we then have to worry about 'quality' or bad jobs.


All of us know that GREED is inbred in our DNA, hence we look for ways to justify it.

An average Oyinbo is always upfront about his charges, .......that he will do a Good/Quality job, is GIVEN.
If he does not, his license can be withdrawn, he can be prosecuted and even banned from practising for life but all those who did a shoddy job at Lekki Gardens collapsed building are already out, ...doing more shoddy jobs!
Its not about how much you are asked to pay (even if you double the price they charged), it is no guarantee they wont do a shoddy job.

Its like in the "Legal" industry.
Lawyers are free to charge whatever they deem fit, claiming its about 'how good a service they can render".
But the Courts (made up of qualified former, senior Lawyers as well) has come out to say "There should be a FAIR PRICE for your Services" and have disciplined some Lawyers for excessive charges and deducted the excess back to the Client.
What we should all understand is that "Where one of the parties is at a disadvantage in a negotiation and has no option than to pay (because he cant do the job, and he needs the job done), the party rendering the service has a temptation to ABUSE AND TAKE ADVANTAGE of his Position.
Even when some Lawyers bungle a case that a well-informed 'lay-man' could have won, they still want to charge an arm and leg!
Just tell them to do the case "prono bono" (No win, No fee) then you will see how they quickly develop cold feet because they know their own limitations.

What l am saying is that it is WRONG to say that there is always a DIRECT and PROPORTIONAL relationship between EXCESSIVE CHARGE and quality of Job, in Nigeria.
Let us call a spade, a spade.


@twinskenny: I knew you back then in the FTA section on Nairaland when you knew nothing about wiring or electrical installation!
I remember the kind of questions you used to ask ..which shows your level of 'knowledge and competency', and the FREE answers you were given.
A few years later now, you think you have joined the "Elite Club" who can charge whatever they like or the customer can go to blazes or imply that your outrageous prices are reflection of your level of competency, professionalism or qualification?
Please, take it easy o.
The fact that there are thieves and 419ers trying to get jobs, stealing materials and running away with Customer funds, does not mean we should be at the mercy of those who dont do so!

Finally and this is BTW: I have finished exactly a building of this same size as the original person who posed this question, early this year and it cost 600K (in and out), the Bricklayer did a marvellous job that l was so happy with, l gave him an extra 50K as promised, since he was insisting on 640K and l said l will add the 40K + 10K Beer money for his boys, if l am impressed by his work, on completion (though he needs to be properly 'supervised' because some of his boys do develop 'light fingers' for things not their own, left hanging around and he takes his time to do his job.... you cant hurry him one bit! he even has a 'roster' of clients queuing and waiting for him to come and do their job).
I have seen a lot of jobs and l can tell you his compares favourably.
He the Contractor was happy, Me, the Client was happy and we both agreed it was a FAIR PRICE.
If he insisted on #1,200,000 based on the kind of job he wanted to do (and which he did), l am sure some people here will tell me it is justified since he is competent and has quality work to show for it.
But it wont be fair to me, the Client, despite him the Contractor, smiling t o the bank.

This where FAIRNESS comes-in.

Excuzeme:
\

Can ANYONE on this forum, tell us if they have paid over #1,200,000, to plaster a 3-bed, FOUR FLATS building?

I just went to check the quote (the ridiculous one I mentioned in my earlier post) again, this our super guru quoted N2.8 million for plastering! And we are here talking about N1.2million.

Now,where do I start from? How do I know I am paying for the service I am going to get? Somebody is here talking about N1.2million for plastering of building of the same magnitude and floor area and somebody is going to charge me N2.8million for the same.

The question is, is one going to use gold and the other silver?

Excuzeme:
\

Can ANYONE on this forum, tell us if they have paid over #1,200,000, to plaster a 3-bed, FOUR FLATS building?
I am sure no-one has done so, except maybe a Contractor like Skimanski --- It is not his money!

Ofcourse, @Skimanski can say: because l am good at plastering, l think l would charge #6Million for the same job, that shows how good l am!
Then @Aventures will say, "for me, it is #12Million for the same job, because l think l am better
@Spyder can even up the ante by saying okay, its either #18Million or nothing for me....... or dont you know the quality of my work?

Question is: Where does it stop and where is the FAIRNESS to the Customer here?

@Skimanski: QUALITY is 'given'.
it is expected of any Artisan/Contractor who is worth his salt, anything other than that makes the Artisan/Contractor a QUACK.

The only thing left to haggle about is the PRICE to be paid for the 'expected' quality job.
If l call you for a job, it is because l 'believe' you are professional, know what you are doing, you are well-trained and competent thus, QUALITY is expected and should be taken for granted!
It is because we have too many, poorly educated, incompetent and unprofessional QUACKS masquerading as Professional "Big Guns" in the industry, that we then have to worry about 'quality' or bad jobs.


All of us know that GREED is inbred in our DNA, hence we look for ways to justify it.

An average Oyinbo is always upfront about his charges, .......that he will do a Good/Quality job, is GIVEN.
If he does not, his license can be withdrawn, he can be prosecuted and even banned from practising for life but all those who did a shoddy job at Lekki Gardens collapsed building are already out, ...doing more shoddy jobs!
Its not about how much you are asked to pay (even if you double the price they charged), it is no guarantee they wont do a shoddy job.

Its like in the "Legal" industry.
Lawyers are free to charge whatever they deem fit, claiming its about 'how good a service they can render".
But the Courts (made up of qualified former, senior Lawyers as well) has come out to say "There should be a FAIR PRICE for your Services" and have disciplined some Lawyers for excessive charges and deducted the excess back to the Client.
What we should all understand is that "Where one of the parties is at a disadvantage in a negotiation and has no option than to pay (because he can do the job and he needs the job), the party rendering the service has a temptation to ABUSE AND TAKE ADVANTAGE of his Position.
Even when some Lawyers bungle a case that a well-informed 'lay-man' could have won, they still want to charge an arm and leg!
Just tell them to do the case "prono bono" (No win, No fee) then you will see how they quickly develop cold feet because they know their own limitations.

What l am saying is that it is WRONG to say that there is always a DIRECT and PROPORTIONAL relationship between EXCESSIVE CHARGE and quality of Job, in Nigeria.
Let us call a spade, a spade.


@twinskenny: I knew you back then in the FTA section on Nairaland when you knew nothing about wiring or electrical installation!
I remember the kind of questions you used to ask ..which shows your level of 'knowledge and competency', and the FREE answers you were given.
A few years later now, you think you have joined the "Elite Club" who can charge whatever they like or the customer can go to blazes or imply that your outrageous prices are reflection of your level of competency, professionalism or qualification?
Please, take it easy o.
The fact that there are thieves and 419ers trying to get jobs, stealing materials and running away with Customer funds, does not mean we should be at the mercy of those who dont do so!

Finally and this is BTW: I have finished exactly a building of this same size as the original person who posed this question, early this year and it cost 600K (in and out), the Bricklayer did a marvellous job that l was so happy with, l gave him an extra 50K as promised, since he was insisting on 640K and l said l will add the 40K + 10K Beer money for his boys, if l am impressed by his work, on completion (though he needs to be properly 'supervised' because some of his boys do develop 'light fingers' for things not their own, left hanging around and he takes his time to do his job.... you cant hurry him one bit! he even has a 'roster' of clients queuing and waiting for him to come and do their job).
I have seen a lot of jobs and l can tell you his compares favourably.
He the Contractor was happy, Me, the Client was happy and we both agreed it was a FAIR PRICE.
If he insisted on #1,200,000 based on the kind of job he wanted to do (and which he did), l am sure some people here will tell me it is justified since he is competent and has quality work to show for it.
But it wont be fair to me, the Client, despite him the Contractor, smiling t o the bank.

This where FAIRNESS comes-in.

I am very sorry we have all been speaking from a very sentimental point of view. I have been speaking from a Contractor who hopes to be paid well's point of view, and may be (just maybe) you have been speaking from a client who hopes to get the best deal for his money's Point of view. Let me see if I can go neutral,which I'm not sure you might agree on.

We all know we are in the business of competition. Competition for price and quality. Apparently Nigeria has more competition in the price region than in the quality region, but nevertheless there is still competition in Both. I would be stupid to bill you N1.2m for plastering I know you can get for N600k and hope you will give to me. You will be stupid to give me N1.2m when you know you can pay 600k for Plastering. If i decide to be greedy let that be my cup of tea. My own is do your check and pay what you think your request is worth. Clients should also be fair too.

You see that 4 flat building, if Julius Berger were to plaster that for you, they will charge to maybe 2million. Not because they are greedy, but because they know they can get the Job done and they know getting the Job done comes with a cost of Attention to details that will take men power, Machinery, attention to details and Other exercises that its only fair the client pays for and not the contractor.

Now I agree Nigerian's always look for a way to reap you off, but that doesn't takeaway from the fact that you want a good job and should look for a way to strike a balance in Payment for what you want and what is given around. This N1.2m is equal to 3k dollars. i'm sure if Oyinbo man talk say make you give am 4k dollars to plaster that four flat, you will pay because na Oyinbo.

Anyway, we are all entitled to our opinion. and That is mine, based on my experience is this my very few years of existence in this life.

KolaShangOne:


Oga I remember that your thread where you said

"I'm not an Engineer, I am something more"

You use style yab Engineers but this family will help regardless..

Dressing of windows after fixing burglary is tedious and won't be neat. your bricklayer is right.
Especially if your burglary is what they call (daabo) instead of "in-to-in".

If you have not done wiring yet, I think you should just wait to install your window frames.

lol. bruh if i yab engineers my apologies . anyway thanks for your contribution

So it's HIM after all no wonder the long Epistle

I am glad this is turning into a discuss of matured minds and I believe we would all be the better for it in the end.

I know of lafarge ready-mix concrete and the pricing is clear per cubic metre - Standard.
I know Julius berger will not go into construction of a private individual building that is not economically viable for both the company and the client - standard.

Julius berger will deliver standard come what may but the cardinal point (or one of the cardinal points) will be economy (viability) for both the client and the company - standard.

There is this misconception about paying "oyinbo" money which you wouldn't dare pay a Nigerian. The truth is you won't pay the same amount to a well trained pilot and a boy on playing ground who's just flying his kite practising how to be a pilot. There are standards for everything including pricing with the "oyinbo" and that's what makes the difference. The standards are not some secrets which only the "oyinbo" know about.Both the "oyinbo" and the clients know what the pricing/cost is. They also give you money-back guarantee so why won't you pay more for it?

If you ask Julius berger to give you the cost component of their pricing, it will not be difficult and it will be fair (I know this from my contract costing).It is not because they are Julius Berger it is because their costing is fair! If you ask them to justify it they'd tell you including their profit margin on the building. This is not the same with others. The bottom line is fairness! Now let us ask why is somebody charging N1.2million for what somebody charged N600k for? That doesn't make the person who charge the most Julius berger overnight.

The question is how fair is this pricing?

I am sure if we ask @Skimanski @Aventures @spyder880 @Architect B @Abdulwastecx @Podosci et al to give us the quote for building a 6 bedroom duplex with the same design, the costing will be different but the variation shouldn't be an earth-shattering difference!

skimanski:



I am very sorry we have all been speaking from a very sentimental point of view. I have been speaking from a Contractor who hopes to be paid well's point of view, and may be (just maybe) you have been speaking from a client who hopes to get the best deal for his money's Point of view. Let me see if I can go neutral,which I'm not sure you might agree on.

We all know we are in the business of competition. Competition for price and quality. Apparently Nigeria has more competition in the price region than in the quality region, but nevertheless there is still competition in Both. I would be stupid to bill you N1.2m for plastering I know you can get for N600k and hope you will give to me. You will be stupid to give me N1.2m when you know you can pay 600k for Plastering. If i decide to be greedy let that be my cup of tea. My own is do your check and pay what you think your request is worth. Clients should also be fair too.

You see that 4 flat building, if Julius Berger were to plaster that for you, they will charge to maybe 2million. Not because they are greedy, but because they know they can get the Job done and they know getting the Job done comes with a cost of Attention to details that will take men power, Machinery, attention to details and Other exercises that its only fair the client pays for and not the contractor.

Now I agree Nigerian's always look for a way to reap you off, but that doesn't takeaway from the fact that you want a good job and should look for a way to strike a balance in Payment for what you want and what is given around. This N1.2m is equal to 3k dollars. i'm sure if Oyinbo man talk say make you give am 4k dollars to plaster that four flat, you will pay because na Oyinbo.

Anyway, we are all entitled to our opinion. and That is mine, based on my experience is this my very few years of existence in this life.

I am going to paste My first comment on this topic below so that we read it again.

"Why is it so surprising that he paid N1.2m to plaster a four unit of 3 bedroom flat? Don't you think he should bother more about his Job been worth the figure than the figure been that high. Una no want make the guys Chop?"

Note The contractor is not my concern. the client is my concern. i want him to bother more on the quality. If he feels he can get thesame quality for 600k No wahala. But like I always Operate. Quality is number 1. before price. If i can get a good deal for quality, who doesn't want that? But first on my scale is Quality, then secondly price.

I no wan talk again, Dem beat Man u. so make I go sleep.

skimanski:



I am very sorry we have all been speaking from a very sentimental point of view. I have been speaking from a Contractor who hopes to be paid well's point of view, and may be (just maybe) you have been speaking from a client who hopes to get the best deal for his money's Point of view. Let me see if I can go neutral,which I'm not sure you might agree on.

We all know we are in the business of competition. Competition for price and quality. Apparently Nigeria has more competition in the price region than in the quality region, but nevertheless there is still competition in Both. I would be stupid to bill you N1.2m for plastering I know you can get for N600k and hope you will give to me. You will be stupid to give me N1.2m when you know you can pay 600k for Plastering. If i decide to be greedy let that be my cup of tea. My own is do your check and pay what you think your request is worth. Clients should also be fair too.

You see that 4 flat building, if Julius Berger were to plaster that for you, they will charge to maybe 2million. Not because they are greedy, but because they know they can get the Job done and they know getting the Job done comes with a cost of Attention to details that will take men power, Machinery, attention to details and Other exercises that its only fair the client pays for and not the contractor.

Now I agree Nigerian's always look for a way to reap you off, but that doesn't takeaway from the fact that you want a good job and should look for a way to strike a balance in Payment for what you want and what is given around. This N1.2m is equal to 3k dollars. i'm sure if Oyinbo man talk say make you give am 4k dollars to plaster that four flat, you will pay because na Oyinbo.

Anyway, we are all entitled to our opinion. and That is mine, based on my experience is this my very few years of existence in this life.

All we are saying is: Let us just be FAIR to each other, Contractor or Client.

The Oyinbo man, (even an ordinary Boiler repairer or Window installer) you are referring to, has PAID INSURANCE so that if he messes your work up, you can sue him and his INSURANCE Company will pay you good compensation. This are added cost which you dont carry, in Nigeria.
Who pays me if @Skimanski or any other Builder in Nigeria, ruins my building? Do "you" have builders Insurance? Nor lie O!

The builders in Lekki gardens who caused the death of other Artisans, against all advice, are still building today!
If that happens in Oyinbo man's land, that builder will NOT build again, his license to build will be withdrawn!
- Are you not aware that Nigerians have no 'cause to redress', as the average Oyinbo Client has?
- Do you know that many of you building Contractors are not licensed to practice building?
- Do you know that quite a large proportion of you are not accredited by the Builder Guild of Nigeria?
- Do you know that majority of you building Contractors here are just "trial and error" builders and are not professionals (save for a very few) , in the real sense of it (like An Accounting professional with FCA or Lawyer who is a Nigerian Bar Association member)?
When some Quacks have nothing to say, they result to coded insults!

There is no basis for comparison because "cost of labour" also has to do with the standard of living in a particular area!
Even that 600K l want to pay, say in Lagos, there would be Bricklayers who might even do a better job in in a village somewhere in Ekiti, Akwa Ibom, e.t.c simply because the 'cost of living' is comparatively cheaper in those places!
That is also why cost of House rent for One Year in Nigeria, is equivalent ot cost of ONE MONTH house rent in some Oyinbo land.

No Brainer!
The 'Contractors' will always side with exorbitantly high charges because it is to their advantage and will use anything to justify it.
Its not about being stupid...... Clients are negotiating from a position of weakness since they can do the job themselves.

All we are saying is: Let us be FAIR to each other.

Marilo:
I am glad this is turning into a discuss of matured minds and I believe we would all be the better for it in the end.

I know of lafarge ready-mix concrete and the pricing is clear per cubic metre - Standard.
I know Julius berger will not go into construction of a private individual building that is not economically viable for both the company and the client - standard.

Julius berger will deliver standard come what may but the cardinal point (or one of the cardinal points) will be economy (viability) for both the client and the company - standard.

There is this misconception about paying "oyinbo" money which you wouldn't dare pay a Nigerian. The truth is you won't pay the same amount to a well trained pilot and a boy on playing ground who's just flying his kite practising how to be a pilot. There are standards for everything including pricing with the "oyinbo" and that's what makes the difference. The standards are not some secrets which only the "oyinbo" know about.Both the "oyinbo" and the clients know what the pricing/cost is. They also give you money-back guarantee so why won't you pay more for it?

If you ask Julius berger to give you the cost component of their pricing, it will not be difficult and it will be fair (I know this from my contract costing).It is not because they are Julius Berger it is because their costing is fair! If you ask them to justify it they'd tell you including their profit margin on the building. This is not the same with others. The bottom line is fairness! Now let us ask why is somebody charging N1.2million for what somebody charged N600k for? That doesn't make the person who charge the most Julius berger overnight.

The question is how fair is this pricing?

I am sure if we ask @Skimanski @Aventures @spyder880 @Architect B @Abdulwastecx @Podosci et al to give us the quote for building a 6 bedroom duplex with the same design, the costing will be different but the variation shouldn't be an earth-shattering difference!

Your last paragraph is what we all need to address.
Yes, you will do a good job (we assume you are a professional so we wont argue on that) but your Price should also be reasonable and comparable to what obtains in the industry.

skimanski:
I am going to paste My first comment on this topic below so that we read it again.

"Why is it so surprising that he paid N1.2m to plaster a four unit of 3 bedroom flat? Don't you think he should bother more about his Job been worth the figure than the figure been that high. Una no want make the guys Chop?"

Note The contractor is not my concern. the client is my concern. i want him to bother more on the quality. If he feels he can get thesame quality for 600k No wahala. But like I always Operate. Quality is number 1. before price. If i can get a good deal for quality, who doesn't want that? But first on my scale is Quality, then secondly price.

I no wan talk again, Dem beat Man u. so make I go sleep.

I watched the match bro, only hope of UCL for Man U next year will be through Europa.

Excuzeme:
\

Can ANYONE on this forum, tell us if they have paid over #1,200,000, to plaster a 3-bed, FOUR FLATS building?

Is the 1,200,000 a labour cost?

Sprumbaba:


Is the 1,200,000 a labour cost?

Yes Sir!

Just labour.

rabcnesbit:


Hello, thanks for the response. It's just labour, no materials included, not even the scaffolding! I have negotiated hard and he agreed to include the exterior in the price as well, so 900k for both interior and exterior.

I noticed lately that people are getting stingy with pictures on this forum. Why is this relevant to your question? Because just one picture will tell a thousand story and facts. So if somebody said they have plastered a four flat for 1.2m labour only, let them post the pix, even if na small peek as four flat different from four flat by design and then size.

But I will try to help so see pix below. Though the project is not a four flat but it's a four flat design for six flats. This is currently on going but I did the plastering BEFORE the dollar wahahala. I did everything (labour only) for just a bit above N500k. Now you've been quoted N1.2m for labour, so mind you, by the time you factor in materials, it will be close to N3m which is way too much. I have included my spreadsheet to give you an idea of the full cost which includes scaffolding. In the breakdown notice the price of cement and compare to today's price then you will know what you are up against. The project is in Warri, but please note that Warri is not cheap. The plastering was completed for ₦ 1,094,250.00, I have figures also for four flats in Lagos and Ibadan, none was plastered for more than N600k. So about N3m to plaster a four flat means you are not on top of your build. You certainly can do better.

PLASTERING

Scaffolding labour 20,000.00 (build and transfer)
Scaffolding Planks 25,000.00
40 Bags of Cement @ 1500 -60,000.00
20 Bags of Cement @ 1950 39,000.00
20 Bags of Cement @ 1950 39,000.00
15 Bags of Cement @ 1950 29,250.00
20 Bags of Cement @ 1950 39,000.00
15 Bags of Cement @ 1950 29,250.00
5 Bags of Cement @ 1950 9,750.00
20 Bags of Cement @ 1950 39,000.00
18 Bags of Cement @ 2000 36,000.00
8 Trips of Sharp Sand @ 11,000 88,000.00
4 Trips of Plaster Sand 36,000.00
Decking Workmanship 90,000.00
Plastering of Rooms Workmanship 300,000.00
Plastering of Outside Walls Workmanship 140,000.00
Miscellaneous 75,000.00
TOTAL ₦ 1,094,250.00

diordaves:


I noticed lately that people are getting stingy with pictures on this forum. Why is this relevant to your question? Because just one picture will tell a thousand story and facts. So if somebody said they have plastered a four flat for 1.2m labour only, let them post the pix, even if na small peek as four flat different from four flat by design and then size.

But I will try to help so see pix below. Though the project is not a four flat but it's a four flat design for six flats. This is currently on going but I did the plastering BEFORE the dollar wahahala. I did everything (labour only) for just a bit above N500k. Now you've been quoted N1.2m for labour, so mind you, by the time you factor in materials, it will be close to N3m which is way too much. I have included my spreadsheet to give you an idea of the full cost which includes scaffolding. In the breakdown notice the price of cement and compare to today's price then you will know what you are up against. The project is in Warri, but please note that Warri is not cheap. The plastering was completed for ₦ 1,094,250.00, I have figures also for four flats in Lagos and Ibadan, none was plastered for more than N600k. So about N3m to plaster a four flat means you are not on top of your build. You certainly can do better.

PLASTERING

Scaffolding labour 20,000.00 (build and transfer)
Scaffolding Planks 25,000.00
40 Bags of Cement @ 1500 -60,000.00
20 Bags of Cement @ 1950 39,000.00
20 Bags of Cement @ 1950 39,000.00
15 Bags of Cement @ 1950 29,250.00
20 Bags of Cement @ 1950 39,000.00
15 Bags of Cement @ 1950 29,250.00
5 Bags of Cement @ 1950 9,750.00
20 Bags of Cement @ 1950 39,000.00
18 Bags of Cement @ 2000 36,000.00
8 Trips of Sharp Sand @ 11,000 88,000.00
4 Trips of Plaster Sand 36,000.00
Decking Workmanship 90,000.00
Plastering of Rooms Workmanship 300,000.00
Plastering of Outside Walls Workmanship 140,000.00
Miscellaneous 75,000.00
TOTAL ₦ 1,094,250.00

At the bolded:
This is exactly what we have been saying.
Even if the price charged is going to vary (to cater for 'my workmanship is from outer-space'), the variation should not be too much.

Your Scaffolding was done for #20,000, mine was done for #30,000 (l can understand the stress the guy went through though).
Total plastering (Labour) was #600K plus a #50K dash to show appreciation to the Bricklayer, so its still within the margin of error.

Now, this guy's own is running to over #1.2 Million..... for a building of about the same size (4 flats)

But l am sure that eventually, a time will come when we will have this "pricing index" (like the Tilers who generally have a fixed pricing index ( + or - say 5%) and not withstanding your claims of being the best Tiler in the worls, your price will stillfall within that range.
Bricklayers also have the same principle - a day's work ranges between #3,000 and #3,500, depending on location.

The only people that want us to believe this is impossible are the "Big Guns" Contractors.
To some of then, fairness to everyone involved is not acceptable .... they can fix any price that they like and the Client should either pay or f-off afteral, they cant get a better builder in Nigeria.

How do i justify that I got over N200k quotation for scaffolding alone! From 20k to N200k and we still believe it is because oyinbo has an invisible hand in this?

Some people are just heartless!

Excuzeme:


At the bolded:
This is exactly what we have been saying.
Even if the price charged is going to vary (to cater for 'my workmanship is from outer-space'), the variation should not be too much.

Your Scaffolding was done for #20,000, mine was done for #30,000 (l can understand the stress the guy went through though).
Total plastering (Labour) was #600K plus a #50K dash to show appreciation to the Bricklayer, so its still within the margin of error.

Now, this guy's own is running to over #1.2 Million..... for a building of about the same size (4 flats)

But l am sure that eventually, a time will come when we will have this "pricing index" (like the Tilers who generally have a fixed pricing index ( + or - say 5%) and not withstanding your claims of being the best Tiler in the worls, your price will stillfall within that range.
Bricklayers also have the same principle - a day's work ranges between #3,000 and #3,500, depending on location.

The only people that want us to believe this is impossible are the "Big Guns" Contractors.
To some of then, fairness to everyone involved is not acceptable .... they can fix any price that they like and the Client should either pay or f-off afteral, they cant get a better builder in Nigeria.

Marilo:


How do i justify that I got over N200k quotation for scaffolding alone! From 20k to N200k and we still believe it is because oyinbo has an invisible hand in this?

Some people are just heartless!

The #30K l paid ( and his own #20K) is for Labour only.

Maybe yours includes: Cost of the Bamboo, Transportation to site, cost of 4" Nails, cost of Binding wire?
Even at that!

Just asking because l dont understand how scaffolding Labour, can be 200K?
Abi na ten storey building you dey scaffold?

Excuzeme:


The #30K l paid ( and his own #20K) is for Labour only.

Maybe yours includes: Cost of the Bamboo, Transportation to site, cost of 4" Nails, cost of Binding wire?
Even at that!

Just asking because l dont understand how scaffolding Labour, can be 200K?
Abi na ten storey building you dey scaffold?

Though the over N200k include the bamboo,transportation and installation but N200k is too much nah. It's a not ten storey o.
When I get to that stage,I will contract it out to someone else and I am sure I'd get a better deal.

The man in question should focus on quality job so far the guy that will handle the plaster job is a professional. I have been to so many sites that I have to tell the clients to allow the contractor to finish the job or we start from the beginning. I have met so many clients that want to pay little amount for a complete electrical installation for 6bedrrom flat in which I decline cos there is no way I can cope with it couple with the cost of transportation and daily feeding for my workers. He later called me for the corrections of shoddy job done. He later paid more to get what he want. Quality matter most

Strange that most, (if not ALL) CONTRACTORS who get paid by the Client, are all singing from the same Hyme Book!

Each one says: The Client should NOT be concerned about Cost/Price they are charged (that is the prerogative of the Contractor), but should just focus on the Quality they get at the end of the day.

Well, since "what is good for the Geese, should also be good for the Gander", let me flip that argument and present it to our Contractors: The Contractor should NOT ALSO be concerned about the Cost/Price they would be paid (Let the Client alone decide on that), but should just focus on delivering a Quality job to the Client, at the end of the day.

I am sure l am not the only one that sees the futility of such Greedy argument!

In reality, both the Client and the Contractor focus FIRST, on the MONEY, from different sides of the stick!
The Contractor wants to maximise him income, while delivering a quality job (not in all cases they deliver though), while the Client wants to minimise his Cost, while expecting a quality job (he does not get that all the time).

Why are we pretending that it is not all about the money while using the same scare tactics in that line of argument: "The Client has to called me back to repair the damage and he even have to pay me more money, than before"?

So, the 'common sense approach' will be to meet in "the middle of the money", a point where both sides feel 'THIS IS FAIR'.
A win-win situation for both sides!
But GREED will not allow this sort of reasoning to prevail.

It is very sad, how morally depraved we have become in this country.


BTW: I noticed that a lot of Contractors have chipped-in on this issue but the Clients who are most affected, read as "GUESTS" and just stay-away from commenting! This is strange.
Could this be because, they dont want to criticise their favourite Contractor, while banking on having a discount in future engagement with any of them?
Just wondering aloud.