Pastafarian:


this is asking for a subjective opinion

let's keep the discussion objective, I personally don't support the death penalty but that wouldn't make me come out and say its wrong; one is subjective while the other is being objective

Sir, what makes an opinion Objective?

ilynem:

OK OK. OK . I am not a medical expert. So let me ask you as the medical practitioner that you are. Do homosexuals (gays and lesbians) stand more health risk (not psychological this time) than heterosexuals?

Yes, male homosexuals stand more health risks. Of which I've explained the reason why.
Female homosexuals do not. At least I've not seen any research to support that.

kevoh:

Point 1: Stealing is not on the same level as homosexualism and can not be compared.
Point 2: What would you do if your kids continued committing incest despite your preaching that is abnormal?
Point 3: You and other christians are the ones calling homosexualism abomination. Yet, I see christians giving testimonies when they get Visas to countries where this so-called abomination is allowed.
Point 4: Nigeria passed a law of 14 years to homosexuals. Yet Nigerian homosexuals still come out to identify themselves. Saudi Arabia has a death penalty on homosexuals, yet homosexualism is still flourishing there. These are countries that have refused to see it as normal!

What you fail to understand is you religionist people keep poke nosing into what two consenting adults decide to do in their room.

Ha! I am no way poke nosing. I am all for protecting my kids. Train up a child in the way he should grow and when he grows, he will not depart from it. I do not believe I will train my kids properly in the way of God and then they go ahead to commit incest.
Question sir, do you see incest between two consenting adults as normal?

ilynem:
Sir, what makes an opinion Objective?

devoid of bias, sentiment and some emotions

CatfishBilly:

I've already answered this question.

If your answer is "yes" then sir we are already in that future. You will also consent to your wife sleeping with son as long as they decide not to have children. Is that right?

Pastafarian:


devoid of bias, sentiment and some emotions

So how do you know when an opinion is not biased or based on sentiment, is it when the majority goes by the same opinion?

ilynem:

If your answer is "yes" then sir we are already in that future. You will also consent to your wife sleeping with son as long as they decide not to have children. Is that right?

Now, your imagination is running wild. We are talking incest, sibling, cousins, not parents.

CatfishBilly:

Now, your imagination is running wild. We are talking incest, sibling, cousins, not parents.

You call that imagination? It is happening already. I guess you didn't see the first picture I posted.

ilynem:

So how do you know when an opinion is not biased or based on sentiment, is it when the majority goes by the same opinion?

you listen to their reasons for having that opinion

eg, many people support the death penalty but much less people would be inclined to support it if someone dear to them commits capital offense

objectivity made them support it, subjectivity made them oppose it

ilynem:

Ha! I am no way poke nosing. I am all for protecting my kids. Train up a child in the way he should grow and when he grows, he will not depart from it.

We all know the above is dead on arrival. There are many instances of kids even pastors kids who are well trained and turn out bad. So what will you do if after all the training and prayers, your child still turns out a homosexual?

ilynem:

Question sir, do you see incest between two consenting adults as normal?

The answer is already in your question. They have consented to it, irrespective of my opinion on incest.

Pastafarian:


you listen to their reasons for having that opinion

eg, many people support the death penalty but much less people would be inclined to support it if someone dear to them commits capital offense

objectivity made them support it, subjectivity made them oppose it

So basically you are saying that when the majority supports a thing, it is objective? For instance, majority does not support homosexuality including me. But the day I start having feelings for my fellow man, I might start to see it as OK.

ilynem:

So basically you are saying that when the majority supports a thing, it is objective? For instance, majority does not support homosexuality including me. But the day I start having feelings for my fellow man, I might start to see it as OK.

I made it clear that you listen to their reasons for supporting/opposing it

kevoh:

We all know the above is dead on arrival. There are many instances of kids even pastors kids who are well trained and turn out bad. So what will you do if after all the training and prayers, your child still turns out a homosexual?


The answer is already in your question. They have consented to it, irrespective of my opinion on incest.

So you will support your children if they turn out to be sexually attracted to each other?

Pastafarian:


I made it clear that you listen to their reasons for supporting/opposing it

And how are you sure you the listener, your own sentiments or bias won't come to play?

ilynem:

And how are you sure you the listener, your own sentiments or bias won't come to play?

which is why we are having this kinda discussion

you came with the opinion that homosexuality should be totally illegal, I've listened to your reasons and I've found nothing objective about your objection

you gave a link to a forum which is just like someone using your posts as "proof", you gave another link of psychological problem and we've debunked that too cuz the link actually debunks itself, you talked about being at risk of STDs and Catfishbilly has given a medical explanation for such

so my conclusion so far is that you've not been able to give any objective reason for your being against homosexuality


that's how one listens without bias

I never insinuated the bolded.

Homosexuality is a grevious sin according to Christianity. But other than that, morality tells us that it is totally wrong.

It is audible to the deaf and visible to the blind that it is absolutely unnatural. Even science cannot prove that it is natural. And if you want to use the premise that it is natural since some animals exhibit such behavior then would you agree that killing of children by parents is right due to some animals also killing their offsprings?

Pastafarian:


I agree that incest is worse than homosexuality

my question to you has not been answered, why is homosexuality wrong? since you claimed the Bible wasn't the reason, you said its "not normal and unnatural" how do you judge "normalcy or naturalness"?

Pastafarian:


I agree that incest is worse than homosexuality

my question to you has not been answered, why is homosexuality wrong? since you claimed the Bible wasn't the reason, you said its "not normal and unnatural" how do you judge "normalcy or naturalness"?

Naturally a penis is meant to go inside a vagina. But if a penis meets a penis, or vj to vj. There would be confusion. Then there is anal sex among homosexuals. But its not natural. Natural in the sense that sex if for pleasure, procreation and maybe other things. But you cant procreate with another person of the same gender

kevoh:

Point 1: Stealing is not on the same level as homosexualism and can not be compared.
Point 2: What would you do if your kids continued committing incest despite your preaching that is abnormal?
Point 3: You and other christians are the ones calling homosexualism abomination. Yet, I see christians giving testimonies when they get Visas to countries where this so-called abomination is allowed.
Point 4: Nigeria passed a law of 14 years to homosexuals. Yet Nigerian homosexuals still come out to identify themselves. Saudi Arabia has a death penalty on homosexuals, yet homosexualism is still flourishing there. These are countries that have refused to see it as normal!

What you fail to understand is you religionist people keep poke nosing into what two consenting adults decide to do in their room.

Religions aside. It is not natural

Pastafarian:


which is why we are having this kinda discussion

you came with the opinion that homosexuality should be totally illegal, I've listened to your reasons and I've found nothing objective about your objection

you gave a link to a forum which is just like someone using your posts as "proof", you gave another link of psychological problem and we've debunked that too cuz the link actually debunks itself, you talked about being at risk of STDs and Catfishbilly has given a medical explanation for such

so my conclusion so far is that you've not been able to give any objective reason for your being against homosexuality


that's how one listens without bias

No no
You didn't debunk " the link". I asked you and Mr catfish if dogs give consent to mate or whenever dogs mate with each other, its rape. None of you could answer because you know if they can consent to mate with each other, why can't they consent to mate with humans (who can give them orgasms). Now I brought incest into it and asked mr Catfish why incest is wrong and he said something about deformed offsprings.
And I asked, if they decide not to have children, are we going to see incest as normal? Or fathers sleeping with daughters and mothers sleeping with sons as long as they are two consenting adults?

NigerianScholar:


Naturally a penis is meant to go inside a vagina. But if a penis meets a penis, or vj to vj. There would be confusion. Then there is anal sex among homosexuals. But its not natural. Natural in the sense that sex if for pleasure, procreation and maybe other things. But you cant procreate with another person of the same gender

I object totally

you need to speak for yourself, there's apparently no "confusion" when they're having their homosexual act, if there was they wouldn't be homo bro, I mean is it that they intentionally chose " confusion "?

I think the mistake you're making is that you're looking at this from your own perspective and making conjecture about how their sex would look like

heterosexuals can also have anal sex

I agree that they can't get pregnant and have children but if that's what they want they can always do ivf and other options

ilynem:

No no
You didn't debunk " the link". I asked you and Mr catfish if dogs give consent to mate or whenever dogs mate with each other, its rape. None of you could answer because you know if they can consent to mate with each other, why can't they consent to mate with humans (who can give them orgasms). Now I brought incest into it and asked mr Catfish why incest is wrong and he said something about deformed offsprings.
And I asked, if they decide not to have children, are we going to see incest as normal? Or fathers sleeping with daughters and mothers sleeping with sons as long as they are two consenting adults?

you asked if dogs can give consent and that's a pure No! the link you gave was a forum so that opinion still stands

and when we say "consent" we mean consent between them and humans bro after all I see chickens give consent, don't be coy

an animal cannot give consent to a human, if you have something to the contrary then let's hear it

Wrong! They got their position through behavioral studies and surveys, not through any scientific work.

CatfishBilly:
.
They got their position through scientific work, so that makes them scientists.You still haven't posted any research work or article to negate my submission or strengthen your position

Homosexuality is a mental disorder just like all other attractions to animals and in an I objects. The fact that it falls doesn't fall under those categories doesn't mean it isn't. I bet in a few years you would be asking why we can't accept people who sleep with animals after it is legalized in the USA.

Men who sleep with men are homosexuals aren't they?

Homosexuality is not a mental disorder, don't let your prejudice get the better of you.
It is not under DSM, it is not under ICD, so it's not a mental disorder.
Homosexual covers both men and women, and the only group that has been shown to have increased susceptibility to HIV is men that sleep with men. Lesbians don't have increased susceptibility, that was why I made that demarcation.

Pastafarian:


you asked if dogs can give consent and that's a pure No! the link you gave was a forum so that opinion still stands

and when we say "consent" we mean consent between them and humans bro after all I see chickens give consent, don't be coy

an animal cannot give consent to a human, if you have something to the contrary then let's hear it

So when they want to mate with each other, do they give consent?

ilynem:

Ha! I am no way poke nosing. I am all for protecting my kids. Train up a child in the way he should grow and when he grows, he will not depart from it.I do not believe I will train my kids properly in the way of God and then they go ahead to commit incest.
Question sir, do you see incest between two consenting adults as normal?

From a christian perspective. They can get tempted by satan and fall for that temptation

From a logical perspective. What you are trying to say is all thieves,rapists,killers etc that happen to be christians didnt get trained properly in the way of God

Back to the christian perspective. Peter rolled with jesus himself but denied him judas as well. Would you say they werent trained properly?

ilynem:

So when they want to mate with each other, do they give consent?

you're gonna have to ask an animal veterinarian bro but one thing I'm sure of is that an animal can NEVER consent to a human

you can drop links to where an animal consented to have sex with a human, what are those signs? and how did the human know that's a sign of consent?

we shouldn't mix the two dog to dog and human to dog

Amberon:
Wrong! They got their position through behavioral studies and surveys, not through any scientific work.

What is scientific work?
Explain the scientific process.

Homosexuality is a mental disorder just like all other attractions to animals and in an I objects. The fact that it falls doesn't fall under those categories doesn't mean it isn't. I bet in a few years you would be asking why we can't accept people who sleep with animals after it is legalized in the USA.

Men who sleep with men are homosexuals aren't they?

You still haven't told me the psychiatry textbook that says Homosexuality is a mental disorder. I think everyone can agree that psychiatry is the authority in mental disorders, not you.
Men who sleep with men are homosexuals.
Females who sleep with females are homosexuals, what's your point?

NigerianScholar:



From a christian perspective. They can get tempted by satan and fall for that temptation

From a logical perspective. What you are trying to say is all thieves,rapists,killers etc that happen to be christians didnt get trained properly in the way of God

Back to the christian perspective. Peter rolled with jesus himself but denied him judas as well. Would you say they werent trained properly?

From the christian perspective, out of 12, 1 faulted. There will always be a Judas. I am not arguing against that. I made that statement personal for reasons you will not understand so there is no need to go into that.
Now from your "logical" perspective, if I bring up my child properly, chances are, he will not end up to be a nuisance to the society. That is why parents take their time to train their children, if not, why bother?
So let me ask you sir, if your child grows up to be a thief, what will u do?

Pastafarian:


you're gonna have to ask an animal veterinarian bro but one thing I'm sure of is that an animal can NEVER consent to a human

you can drop links to where an animal consented to have sex with a human, what are those signs? and how did the human know that's a sign of consent?

we shouldn't mix the two dog to dog and human to dog

And that is based on what research?

ilynem:

And that is based on what research?

lack of evidence to the contrary

if you have anything on animals consent to humans I would be happy to review my opinion

Sarassin:
I for one do not understand all the hypocritical gut-wrenching by religionists over the matter of homosexuality. It has been with us since the dawn of civilisation, the poems and philosophy of Plato as far back as 427BCE gave us the expression of “Greek principles” used to describe male homosexuality. History tells us that the Athenian Socrates favoured young teenagers and as for female homosexuality, we have to come forward in time to around 6BCE around when Jesus of Nazareth was born and journey to the Greek island of Lesbos where the poetess Sappho lived with a group of young girls in her care and extolled her love of young women.

What consenting adults get up to on their own dime should not concern religionists but I am not condoning incest, If that story is true then the mother in that instance is simply unconscionable and the law should be enforced.

So why support homosexuality but bash incest?

Pastafarian:


lack of evidence to the contrary

if you have anything on animals consent to humans I would be happy to review my opinion

And there is also no evidence that animals can NEVER consent to sex with humans. So the answer is, we do not know. I really don't want to talk about the video I saw of a woman and a dog, but I think that's enough evidence in my eyes. Maybe you should try watching one of those videos.

ilynem
From the christian perspective, out of 12, 1 faulted. There will always be a Judas. Excellent - let us put this at about 9%

Now from your "logical" perspective, if I bring up my child properly, chances are, he will not end up to be a nuisance to the society. That is why parents take their time to train their children, if not, why bother? Chances is the keyword. Like i said above. "I am not trying to say what your child will or wont become i am just trying to use some rough statistics to back up my point" Therell always be a chance that your child will become a nuisance to the society. Like i said above. 9% there can be a 9% chance your child will be a nuisance. And that small probability may become a reality no matter how well you train the child. Remember external factors also apple friends,neighbours,media,popular culture etc


So let me ask you sir, if your child grows up to be a thief, what will u do? - GIve proper Counsel...i wont force him/her to be what he doesnt want to be. After the counsel amd if the child decides to be a thief. Ill allow it even though i wont be happy inside but the love i have for my child will still be there.

know that rebellion is the product of coercion