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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis (17253 Views)
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Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 12:17pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
pressplay411:The whole truth of the message is that religious performance, dead works & self righteousness does not make us right with God. The only thing that make us right with God is our faith in the Finished Work of Christ on the Cross.... Its all about the Grace of God given unto us through Christ Jesus, if not, no man will make it. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by 0b100100111: 12:17pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: Re u Jesus? How did u know he was using an hyperbole? He made clear cut statement and even gave example with consequence and you saying its an hyperbole. |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by hopefulLandlord: 12:19pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
jiggaz: I'm fine bro, and I believe you are too |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 12:21pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord:Alright... yes i am good. Thank you. |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by AlwaysUltraPad: 12:25pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
Bunch of hypocrites. Christ meant everything he said literally. You won't hesitate to interpret any verse you see in the Quran , you do that without looking at it "figurative" or literal. Bunch of airheads. 4 Likes |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by AlwaysUltraPad: 12:27pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff:another confused hypocrite. |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by Odingo1: 12:33pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
AlwaysUltraPad:But you practice your own physically by stoning people and cutting peoples hand as stated in sharia,how many christian churches embark on cutting peoples hand like muslims who drive joy in doing so.It shows who interpret its own figuratively and who does not. 1 Like |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by andysnoopy(m): 12:46pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
ogologoamu: You didn't understand what you read. For the self-rightious ones Yea Jesus meant it when he said Cut your hands but for those that are broken in spirit and needs the grace of God, he's our perfect high priest who has fulfilled every law so his grace will be very sufficient. So its left for you to choose your road to heaven. .. Na personal race. But judging from your post, I think you definitely need to cut some of your fingers cos replying without understanding is one of the symptoms of over sabi in other words self-rightiousness. 1 Like |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by MuttleyLaff: 12:48pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
0b100100111:Please desist from asking me a dumb question, else the favour will be reciprocated with a dumb answer 0b100100111:It was raining cats and dogs yesterday here on Friday afternoon Tell me, do you have to know or be told, if in the above, I was using a hyperbole or literally meant it rained cats and dogs yesterday? 0b100100111:You blind guides! You strain gnats [out of your wine], but you swallow camels. - Matthew 23:24 Have you ever met anyone swallow a camel? When and /or if the emphasis in Jesus' teachings, parables etcetera are misunderstood, misinterpreted and misapplied, verses such as Matthew 5:29, Matthew 17:20 etcetera turn parochial and could cause one, some serious damage and ''spiritual blindness'' AlwaysUltraPad:Airheads who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones Did Christ, in Matthew 23:24, mean literally that a camel was swallowed too? AlwaysUltraPad:SMH. You should quietly go sit down somewhere and look the words, confused and hypocrite, up in the dictionary. |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by musicwriter(m): 12:49pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
The whole bible, especially the old testament was written in metaphor and figuratives. Example; there were no literal snake tempting Adam and Eve. Of course, there's no literal hell fire that a loving God would condemn his children forever. Heaven is a state of peace of mind, happiness, joy, everything good. Hell is a state of lack of peace of mind, unhappiness, lack of joy, everything bad. This's to mention a few. There're also multiple mistakes in the bible and the other so called holy books, either due to translation error or opinions by the writers to espouse their own view, not the view of God. Example; Isaiah: 45 vs 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. Amos: 3 vs 6 Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? These were the opinions of Isaiah and Amos for whatever goals they were promoting- just like this post is my opinion. |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by whitebeard(m): 12:53pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
At this point we can conclude that this op' use of English score was and still poor op pls biko which state are u from and which church do u attend..
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Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by galaxy2020(m): 1:18pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
[quote author=jiggaz post=51121135]“If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.” (Mt 5:29-30) I doubt there’s a Christian alive who hasn’t been troubled by this verse at some point in their lives. It’s one of those things you read that causes you to do a double-take. What?! Did Jesus really say that? Was He serious? I’d better ask the pastor. I’ll guess the odds are ten to one you came away thinking that Jesus wasn’t being serious. Afterall, Jesus is the kindest person there is. He healed people. Surely He doesn’t want us to go around maiming ourselves. Then you looked around your church and saw that no one had actually chopped off their hands and so you took comfort in the fact that everyone thought the same way as you did. There’s safety in numbers. No doubt this is an uncomfortable pair of verses. Maybe you don’t think about them that much. But your interpretation of Jesus’ words is extremely important! So let’s cut to the chase with this question: was Jesus being figurative or literal when He made this statement? If you think He was using a figure of speech, how do you know that He wasn’t speaking metaphorically all of the time? Do you just assume that anytime Jesus said something that was tough to swallow that He was speaking figuratively? Or if you think Jesus was being literal, what are you going to do about it? Have you done what He said or have you ignored Him? Hmm. It seems your choice is presumption or disobedience. This is a tricky one. Let’s look more closely at the arguments for each conclusion. Was Jesus speaking figuratively? Jesus loved metaphors, especially when describing the kingdom of heaven. “It’s like a mustard seed” and “it’s like a treasure buried in field” and “it’s like a pearl of great price.” Jesus often used word pictures to convey revelation. I guess the default view is that Jesus is making another metaphor when He tells us to gouge out our eyes and chop off our hands. “Jesus is using strong words to convey something about the seriousness of sin. He’s not really preaching self-mutilation but self-denial. What He means to say is we must be sensitive to sin and renounce it and run from it and do whatever it takes to avoid it.” Does this sound familiar to you? It should, for this has been the standard interpretation for most of church history. But there are two fatal flaws with this conclusion. First, it assumes that Jesus was exaggerating and Jesus never exaggerated. Preachers sometimes exaggerate to make a point but Jesus always meant what He said and said what He meant. He is Truth personified. It is inconceivable that He would play with words for the crude purpose of ramming home a lesson. When Jesus spoke in parables He did so to conceal truths, not to stretch them (Mt 13:13). In any case, the passage above is not part of a parable. The context is the Sermon on the Mount and Jesus has just been speaking about anger and lust. His language is plain because the issues are serious. There is nothing metaphorical about His choice of words. The second flaw with this interpretation is that it suggests we can do stuff to save ourselves from hell. Maybe we don’t have to self-amputate, but we can do things like confess, abstain, renounce and what have you. There’s nothing wrong with these things; the error comes in thinking we can save ourselves by doing them. No doubt it is better to enter eternal life handicapped than for your whole body to go to hell. But it does not follow that you can do things to earn eternal life. Was Jesus speaking literally? Most people think Jesus was speaking figuratively because they cannot conceive for a second that He meant what He said. But what if He did? Does it then follow that He actually wants us to chop off our hands? Of course not! We are sanctified by the blood of the Lamb , not our severed limbs (Heb 10:29). Self-mutilation does nothing to deal with sin for sin is conceived in the heart not the hand (Mt 5:28). Besides, if you chop one hand off you’re left with another. You can still sin! So what’s going on here? Why would Jesus tell us to do something He doesn’t really want us to do? He’s doing it so people will realize the absurdity of trying to impress God with their acts of self-righteousness. He’s preaching law on steroids not so that you will try to keep it but so that you will give up pretending you are. It is hard for some Christians to grasp the idea that Jesus could preach both grace and law without confusing the two, but He did. Jesus is the perfect physician. He knows exactly what medicine you need. If you’re broken and hurting you’ll get grace, but if you’re self-righteous and religious you’ll get law. A self-righteous person is one who thinks he can impress God with his religious performance. The only language he understands is law. He says, “all these commands I have kept from my youth, what else do I lack?” And Jesus responds, “Okay, you asked for it, here it is – receive some more law.” Why preach the law? The law is not a standard to live up to, but a mirror that reveals our faults. The law was not given to help you overcome sin, but to help sin overcome you (Rms 7:8-9). In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus was preaching to people who thought they would be judged righteous if they kept the law. But instead of being silenced by their inability to do so, they had watered it down making it easier to keep. In Matthew 23 Jesus gives some specific examples of how the Pharisees had diluted the law, but in Matthew 5 He sets about raising the standard of the law to its proper level. In other words, He was polishing the mirror. Why did Jesus do this? Why did our gracious king spend so much time preaching the law? Because some people will never appreciate the good news until they’ve heard the bad news, which is this: “Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.” (Mt 5:20) The law is holy, righteous and good, but try to live by it and it will condemn and kill you (2 Cor 3:6,9). The purpose of the law is to bring man to the end of himself and reveal his need for a Savior (Gal 3:24). If you are self-righteous, you will never appreciate Jesus until the law has done its job and plowed the pride out of your smug little heart. I’m a decent person, you say. I’ve never killed or committed adultery. Not good enough, says Jesus. God knows your heart. If you’ve entertained murderous or lustful thoughts you’ve as good as done it. You’re in danger of hell-fire. This is a serious business, says Jesus. If you persist in this pathetic course of self-reliance, you had better be prepared to go the whole way even if that means sacrificing an eye and a hand. (Paul says something similar in Galatians 5:12 .) And knowing there would be some religious wackos out there who might miss the point and actually go to such extremes, Jesus hits them with this: “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” (Mt 5:48) God expects perfection and nothing less. If you’re not perfect, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, you’re in serious trouble. Now here’s the good news: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” (Mt 5:17) Jesus fulfilled all of the requirements of the law on your behalf. You are not perfect, but thank God you have a perfect high priest! “Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, Christ was speaking figuratively not literally.... |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by mhiztaNexy(m): 1:21pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
ollah1:I am a Muslim. people that understand that statement would know what I mean and how it relates with the topic. we are one, let's learn to love each other. that's the purpose of religion. peace and love. 1 Like |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by Nobody: 1:25pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
mhiztaNexy: I don't hate anybody. But I hate bigots, hypocrites and tribalists. It's obvious how hypocritical and bigotry some lads are on the thread. 1 Like |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by ogologoamu: 1:58pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
andysnoopy: A man that uses his heart to commit sin (immoral thought), what will he cut off?,....... HIS heart abi?. A man that commits fornication and adultery, what will he cut off?....... His joystick abi? Why didn't king David cut off his joystick when he slept with Uriah's wife and today he is in Heaven?. Why didn't apostle Peter cut off his mouth for denying Jesus and today he's in Heaven?. Judas Iscarious who misunderstood this teaching went and cut off himself instead of cutting off his sinful character went to HELL. May God show the op mercy for misleading people. |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by femi4: 2:12pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
doyinbaby:ln simple terms: Show love to those that hate you |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by azaino: 2:25pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
ogologoamu: You are mistaken my dear. those that went to heaven didn't achieve that by what they did or what they didn't do. It pleases God to choose them and they believed God, they went to heaven based in their faith/believe in God. That's what the op was trying to convey. Actually many churches still teach self-righteous. I saw a preacher still preaching about wearing weavon, women wearing trousers, guys barbing certain hair style, drinking alcohol, wearing necklaces and bangles. To that preacher, there is nothing you can say to her that will make her believe that she has been preaching the wrong thing, coupled with the fact that is a member of lord chosen church. The leaders has to stop and retrace their step |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by PastorAIO: 2:39pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: Oga, since you are so familiar with the notion of hyperbole your previous post surprises me a great deal. You were so absolutely literal here: MuttleyLaff: Any way, you promised that you would be waiting for me yet you ran off and have only just resurfaced. |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by ogologoamu: 2:39pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
azaino: Just listen to yourself; "those that went to Heaven didn't achieve that by what the did or what they didn't do. ............. they went to Heaven based in their faith/believe in God". Do you mean that by putting their faith to work, they didn't do anything?. |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by Nobody: 2:43pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple Who can explain this,please? |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by PastorAIO: 2:43pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: He asked you how you knew Jesus was being hyperbolic and you failed to answer. Just supplying more examplesof what you consider hypberboles is not an answer to the question. Jesus said many things in the bible. How do you know the hyperboles from the non-hyperboles? Is it when something is is not to your taste (like cutting off your hand) that you say it is hyperbole? Or is there actually some other criteria? 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by donkaz2(m): 2:44pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
Its simple dont even try to sin.. A's simle as having handshake or hug with female who are not your blood and that u have right over.. Be warned!!!!!!!!!!. |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by azaino: 3:09pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
ogologoamu: You are still missing it. I said something about some action people take all in the name of being put right with God, the only way we are put right with God is through our faith in the finish work of Jesus Christ. Most religious performance were invented by man and wasnt the purpose of God, yet this people teach this things to their members. |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by azaino: 3:10pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
ROM 3:21-31 But now God's way of putting people right with himself has been revealed. It has nothing to do with law, even though the Law of Moses and the prophets gave their witness to it. God puts people right through their faith in Jesus Christ. God does this to all who believe in Christ, because there is no difference at all: everyone has sinned and is far away from God's saving presence. But by the free gift of God's grace all are put right with him through Christ Jesus, who sets them free. God offered him, so that by his blood he should become the means by which people's sins are forgiven through their faith in him. God did this in order to demonstrate that he is righteous. In the past he was patient and overlooked people's sins; but in the present time he deals with their sins, in order to demonstrate his righteousness. In this way God shows that he himself is righteous and that he puts right everyone who believes in Jesus. What, then, can we boast about? Nothing! And what is the reason for this? Is it that we obey the Law? No, but that we believe. For we conclude that a person is put right with God only through faith, and not by doing what the Law commands. Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not the God of the Gentiles also? Of course he is. God is one, and he will put the Jews right with himself on the basis of their faith, and will put the Gentiles right through their faith. Does this mean that by this faith we do away with the Law? No, not at all; instead, we uphold the Law. |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by azaino: 3:16pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
Tiny23: It is talking about total and complete faith in Jesus Christ. depending on him alone for the salvation of your soul. Please don't hate you family ooo |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by MuttleyLaff: 3:53pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
PastorAIO:What are you on about with ''You were so absolutely literal here'' PastorAIO:Mr Barrister Gbejọmiro, I pose same scenario to you, as I did him It was raining cats and dogs yesterday here on Friday afternoon Now tell me Counsel, do you have to know or be told, in the above, if I was using a hyperbole or literally meant it rained cats and dogs yesterday? PastorAIO:Not this flimsy ''not to your taste'' reason of yours PastorAIO:Dont let the trees prevent you from seeing the wood Here are a few authentic criteria to know hyperboles from non-hyperboles It is a hyperbole 1) When a statement is disjuncted with context, the speaker’s utterance seems at odds with the general context (e.g. swallowing a camel mentioned in Matthew 23:24; no one swallows camels) 2) When a statement is counterfactual, yet isnt taken as a lie (e.g. raining cats and dogs in my scenario above; though with a caveat it doesnt rain cats and dogs) 3) When an overstatement is made about impossible physical events literally taking place (e.g. move mountain from here to there in Matthew 17:20; no one literally moves physical mountains) |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by JFT24(m): 5:24pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: u mean jesus is being sarcastic?? |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by MuttleyLaff: 5:50pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
JFT24:Yes and no less different to other people that often make sarcastic comments used in very strong, forceful and undiplomatic ways to drive home a point |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by PastorAIO: 10:34pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: What do I mean? Surely you're not that slow. When someone talks about a 'Cyrus Cylinder Brouhaha' why must you take it literally when you are so expert in the notion of hyperbole. |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by PastorAIO: 10:54pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: Would this apply to your reading of 'cyrus cylinder brouhaha'? How is being advised to chop off your hand at odds with any general context in which we've read that passage. Don't people's hands get cut off in Jesus' day? What is the general context that leads you to say that cutting off your hands is at odds with it. Perhaps the whole notion of Hell is Hyperbole too. Yes? and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. How do we know that Jesus wasn't being hyperbolic here? Why should people roast for calling someone a fool, unless maybe it was hyperbole after all this is a saying that I'm not too comfortable with. You can bet that right now I'm reading your posts and thinking exactly that of you, and it would be very unfair if I should end up in hell just because I had the misfortune of reading your posts. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell. So let's look at the general context of the passage. If cutting off of the hands is hyperbole, yet he said that this hyperbole (exaggeration) is better than the whole body going to hell then that must mean that going to hell is an even bigger hyperbole. So therefore you must conclude that Hell is just a hyperbole that shouldn't be taken seriously. Nor be so? 3) When an overstatement is made about impossible physical events literally taking place Luke chapter 21 26Men will faint from fear and anxiety over what is coming upon the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28When these things begin to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” Is this Hyperbole, the part about the son of man coming in a cloud? Are all the miracles in the bible hyperbole in your opinion because after all the refer to 'impossible physical events literally taking place'? |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by hushpapi(m): 10:57pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
babablogger: So what now happened to the laws! They took away every law in Christianity that's why homosexual is back. |
Re: Chop Off Your Hand?! Was Jesus Serious? - Paul Ellis by mfaniyi(m): 11:08pm On Jun 04, 2017 |
This is sweet sir. I appreciate you. Jesus is the end of the law for all you believe. And the salvation we have is one that lasts forever, starting from when we receive Christ. Pls, we want more of this sir 1 Like |
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