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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? (42197 Views)
Igbo Scare: Southern Cameroon Hate For The Igbo Led To Secession From Nigeria / Igbo Scare: Southern Cameroon Hate For The Igbo Led To Secession From Nigeria / Dino Melaye Flaunts His Car In Russia, Says My Passion Is My Personal Property (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by seunmsg(m): 12:40pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
thesicilian: Don't get it twisted at all, the day Biafra secedes legally, all Igbos living in any part of Nigeria will be doing so illegally. Government may round up all of them and throw them into prison or dump them at the Onitsha bridge depending on how the break up occurred. Nigeria's breakup will either be violent or on very hostile terms if violence is not involved. You people will be entitled to absolutely nothing once you succeed in breaking up the country. I will advice you all start selling your belongings now and relocate the ones that can be relocated to the east before it is too late. Igbos will not be allowed to own a pin in Nigeria once Biafra secedes. You cannot eat your cake and still have it. 92 Likes 7 Shares |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Nobody: 12:46pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
GrandGarcon: Yes, you can keep the branches and all of them. We will keep what is down here but remember you are the ones that have 90 per cent of everything here including the air. But what you non sequitur reveals that you want your banker to come and get your real estate, they don't have that kind of power, and they will rather loose you and the branches than loose Lagos. Is it clear now. 46 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by GrandGarcon: 12:55pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
Dumaknesset:You see, you don't know what you are talking about, do you know we are talking about almost all banks in present nigeria? The money that belongs to the nigerian banks will still belong to the nigerian banks even if Biafra comes. We are not usurpers like you people, but if Nigerian government does anything funny, we will nationalize those banks. 1 Like |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Nobody: 1:03pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
GrandGarcon: You see yaself again, you want to nationalize branches of Nigerian banks in Biafra, your loss go ahead. the headquarters are here in Lagos State, keep the branches while we keep the headquarters where the largest chunk of the monies are kept, but dont mix it up, banks cannot get properties for you guys, the banks are Nigerian banks not Biafran banks. The reality will be worse, just let the time come and keep living in denial. 68 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by bakynes(m): 1:09pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
This issue is very simple, the new Biafra country needs a good bilateral relationship with Nigeria, if they are to retain their properties or the Naira currency in their hands and bank,if they don't get that bilateral relationship, a single law can make Biafrans lose all the properties and money they have ever made. So that's why they need to stop this Biafra issue and think of restructuring that way it will benefit them, Biafra will level many Igbos to ground zero. Nnamdi Kanu wasn't thinking about this when he was insulting Nigeria. 76 Likes 9 Shares |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by bakynes(m): 1:12pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
Dumaknesset:Some banks like Fidelity, Diamond owned by Igbos by the declaration of Biafra will no more be Nigerian banks but the money in their hands will be useless they will only have the option to sell the Banks to Nigerians in dollars. 10 Likes |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Nobody: 1:15pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
bakynes: It shows these biafrans don't think that things through. 40 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by oyekanwahab(m): 1:16pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
GrandGarcon:on your own oo, u think it is every property that the bank would accept, am very sure the bank too would be very smart in deal with you guys cause their own na to make money, they would not want to make loss from paying fines ![]() 16 Likes |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by bakynes(m): 1:24pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
I see Igbos making a U-turn soon, they have a lot to loose if they seccessed. 90% of Igbos are making their money outside of Igbo land. Loosing everything to Nigeria means you are starting from the scratch. The only way to achieve Biafra that will not start from the Scratch is to adopt a diplomatic means with the Nigerian state, if not Biafra might be worse than South Sudan. Remember all African countries got their independence and some money to start from the Colonial masters, how will you finance your new country, remember all monies with Biafrans is the Nigerian Naira except the few dollars which I bet won't be enough. That means Biafra will have to start by Borrowing heavily from the World Bank and IMF to start their new country. 43 Likes |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by bakynes(m): 1:31pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
Dumaknesset:They didn't think it through at all, the wise ones know these things only the miscreants and illiterate ones who follow kanu blindly are the ones just shouting up and down. Igbos are deep rooted in Nigeria of 2017, if you don't seccessed from Nigeria peacefully and diplomatically, they will start from ground zero in the new Biafra. That's why we told the Igbos supporting Kanu when he was insulting Yoruba saying Yorubastard, Burukutu sipping Hausa-Fulani, insulting Buhari. If you use insults and violence to seccessed you will lose everything. 48 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Nobody: 1:32pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
bakynes: Guy free these biafrans, I think they are the smartest in the world, though it beats me that can't figure out a better deal for themselves but worst of it. Let them figure there own solutions. Don't indulge them, that is the op's intention, but they will have to consult with millions of naira or dolls before we will indulge them. Stop throwing money at them. We are their superiors upstairs they will soon find out. 17 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 2:13pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
seunmsg: under international guidelines, they are given a time frame to quit, most governments make it very short to inconvenience the secessionists. Cameroon to Nigerians in bakassi is Quintessential 31 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by emmadejust(m): 2:33pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
jpphilips: Does it not have its international stated law for duration to repatriated any personal belonging . 1 Like
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Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 2:38pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
DoTheNeedful: First of all, I hate the fact that you are trying to enlighten them, secondly, I have not heard any country got its sovereignty over the radio, biafra will not be first so we are clear. In your analysis you hinged on commerce from a market share perspective, you forgot that most igbos don't make anything hence the importation craze. Most of them hardly realize that for every LOC honored by a foreign manufacturer, the CBN paid its $$ equivalent, the right question to ask is where will Biafra get the $$ to support her imports? according to the CBN data, imports account for 75% of our forex pressure and we know who is responsible for that. Dont bother yourself with uneducated losers 59 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 2:41pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
GrandGarcon: I am not sure you understand what Mortgage means 20 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Mujtahida: 2:43pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
jpphilips:First it is wrong to say ownership of land is placed SOLELY in the hands of the State Governments. Here's the preamble to the Land Use Act 1978 cap L5 LFN 2004 which reads in part thus: An Act to Vest all Land compromised in the territory of each State (EXCEPT LAND VESTED in the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT or its AGENCIES ) solely in the Governor of the State , who would hold such Land in trust for the people.... In order words land is vested in both the Federal and State Government. Granted the preamble used the words solely but that is in respect of state land(what is state land is defined in the provisions of the State lands acquisition laws of the various States) see Osho v Foreign Finance Corporation (1991)4NWLR pt 184 or LSPDC v Foreign Finance Corp (1986)1NWLR pt 50.We know there are federal government lands throughout the federation. Second, as per your first paragraph I'd opine that it's not so straightforward nor is it cast in black and white as far as our EXTANT citizenship laws are concerned because once a person declares allegiance to Biafra it does not AUTOMATICALLY translate to such a person ceasing to be a Nigerian EXCEPT 1) such a person renounces his citizenship by way of declaration 2)our laws are changed to reflect your position. I am of this view because a citizen of Nigeria includes any person born in Nigeria after independence either of WHOSE PARENTS or GRANDPARENTS belongs or BELONGED to a community indigenous to Nigeria. And that practically covers all potential Biafrans who can stake a claim to Nigerian citizenship through their parents or grandparents (particularly those either of whose parents and grandparents are deceased) and this is even more so since our laws recognise dual citizenship. These are issues, questions and arguments that could be tested in court and judicial pronouncements made to determine their status. Third, foreigners can and do acquire property in Nigeria without resort to proxies. Acquisition of real estate in Nigeria is regulated by the provisions of the Acquisition of Lands by Aliens Act for FCT Abuja(corresponding laws exists in all the States) and under that law aliens can acquire property in Nigeria subject to certain conditions like Governor's consent etc. However in the immediate context of a situation where Biafra is declared these laws will not apply to determine the status of property ACQUIRED when they (Biafrans) were still Nigerians and before they ceased to be Nigerians. It can only apply if after the declaration of Biafra, a Biafran seeks to acquire property in Nigeria. So in sum I'd say there are legal angles to this issue which have to be sorted out by amendments of our laws and judicial pronouncements but based on our existing laws I do not think anything in relation to this matter is automatic. Perhaps there are international treaties and conventions which Nigeria is signatory to which regulates such situations I do not know. Cheers 20 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 2:45pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
GrandGarcon: maybe you just need a trip to Venezuela and Zimbabwe to understand what is left of their economies after nationalizing foreign companies, you don't pull assumptions out of your @rse, the world works differently. 26 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 2:50pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
bakynes: Do you think international lenders are charity organisations?? think again, there are guidelines that guide foreign lending one of which is a sound rating and asset backing, without that, no sane global institution will be that stvpid to lend to a penniless biafra. 15 Likes |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by GrandGarcon: 2:57pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
jpphilips:keep up your ignorance and keyboard war. 4 Likes
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Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by GrandGarcon: 2:59pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
jpphilips:I said "something like" |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by GrandGarcon: 3:00pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
oyekanwahab:that is why it is always good to make hay while the sun shines. 1 Like |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by thesicilian: 3:06pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
seunmsg:You have a very valid point. Although not all who speak in favor of Biafra are Biafrans. 3 Likes |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by GrandGarcon: 3:06pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
Dumaknesset:ignorance is a disease, do you know how much there are in the vaults of these banks? So it will be better everyone plays safe. 3 Likes
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Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by kernel505: 3:11pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
Dumaknesset: I should be asking you the school that graduated you. In the eventual, Biafra secedes, There will be lots of Job lost, high level of unemployment considering the fact that they own the commerce of Nigeria. What happened to property development during Nigeria/Biafra war in the West, lots of properties where developed because of ceased fund of the Igbos and high oil price, today poverty has ravaged them to brown roofs. Igbos are the highest property developers in Nigeria, and rent high cost property too. The IGR of your states will drop. Without the help of government, we've developed East wonderfully... The least rent for a flat is 250k ask if you want, why Ibadan is 100k. 5 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Nobody: 3:15pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
KahlDrogo: ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 3:23pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
emmadejust: This is what the UN guideline said in Article 2: Article 2 1. Nothing in this Declaration shall be interpreted as legitimizing the illegal entry into and presence in a State of any alien, nor shall any provision be interpreted as restricting the right of any State to promulgate laws and regulations concerning the entry of aliens and the terms and conditions of their stay or to establish differences between nationals and aliens. However, such laws and regulations shall not be incompatible with the international legal obligations of that State, including those in the field of human rights. This article is talking about your right as an alien which of course is what you will become in Nigeria once you choose to secede. You can see that UN recognises that Nigeria will have to decide your fate, Nigeria reserves the right to write her own laws, despite urging Nigeria to treat you fairly under the declaration on the rights of Aliens, but that will depend on the circumstances that led to your break up. If you end up being enemies with Nigeria, you sure not gonna be treated fairly, we saw it in bakassi peninsular and the Rohingya Muslims of myanmar. 24 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by pazienza(m): 3:44pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
Lol! Isn't it funny that bitter Igbophobic Nigerians have no iota of plans or means to lift their failed British colonial estate cum country out of its current failed state and embarrassment to all and sundry. But they all have Ph.D ( Pull him down) degrees on how to constitute themselves stumbling blocks to Biafran success. Tells you everything you need to know about these lots, and why the British colonial estate will remain a failure. You all can plan all you want, but you will all fail. We would always find a way. For each stumbling block you place, we would grow two wings to fly past it. Until you all are consumed by your hate and bitterness. 7 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 3:44pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
author=Mujtahida post=57318101] First it is wrong to say ownership of land is placed SOLELY in the hands of the State Governments. Here's the preamble to the Land Use Act 1978 cap L5 LFN 2004 which reads in part thus: An Act to Vest all Land compromised in the territory of each State (EXCEPT LAND VESTED in the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT or its AGENCIES ) solely in the Governor of the State , who would hold such Land in trust for the people.... I stand to be corrected!! secondly as per your first paragraph I'd opine that it's not so straightforward nor is it cast in black and white as far as our EXTANT citizenship laws are concerned because once a person declares allegiance to Biafra it does not AUTOMATICALLY translate to such a person ceasing to be a Nigerian EXCEPT Asking for biafra is denouncing Nigeria right? I am of this view because a citizen of Nigeria includes any person born in Nigeria after independence either of WHOSE PARENTS or GRANDPARENTS belongs or BELONGED to a community indigenous to Nigeria. And that practically covers all potential Biafrans who can stake a claim to Nigerian citizenship through their parents or grandparents (particularly those either of whose parents and grandparents are deceased) and this is even more so since our laws recognise dual citizenship. These are questions and arguments that could be tested in court and judicial pronouncements made to determine their status. Nigeria has every right to change her laws at will, it doesn't call for any debate, desperate times calls for desperate measures. Third, foreigners can and do acquire property in Nigeria without resort to proxies. Acquisition of real estate in Nigeria is regulated by the provisions of the Acquisition of lands by Aliens Act for Abuja(corresponding laws exists in all the States) and under that law aliens can acquire property in Nigeria subject to certain conditions like Governor's consent etc. However in the immediate context of a situation where Biafra is declared these laws will not apply to determine the status of property ACQUIRED when they (Biafrans) were still Nigerians and before they ceased to be Nigerians. It can only apply if after the declaration of Biafra a Biafran seeks to acquire property in Nigeria. Getting a Governor's consent is not a walk in the park, most foreigners I know own properties through proxies, you obviously didn't read where i said that there is no law stopping them from doing so. The condition is rather stringent, it is funny when people like you make assumptions as if Nigeria is a dvmb fellow just sitting around to bear loses, the application of whichever law is upto the Nigerian authorities, you can't decide the direction it goes, one thing I am certain is that Nigeria will make decisions in the direction of her interest. Which Law asked Niger deltans to seize Biafran properties in 1970? Don't you know that Nigeria gave them a tacit support to spite the biafrans, if not, the Abandoned property committee of the federal government, what did it achieve? So in sum I'd say there are legal angles to this issue which have to be sorted out by amendments of our laws and judicial pronouncements but based on our existing laws I do not think anything in relation to this matter is automatic. Perhaps there are international treaties and conventions which Nigeria is signatory to which regulates such situations I do not know. Cheers I have told you that in situations like that, Nigeria reserve the right to change its laws or do you have an example where a country is stopped from changing her laws? 44 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by pheesayor(m): 3:55pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
no, except it was posted on nairaland which I didn't see. Who is the person you're talking about? Kindly post link to where it is on nairaland Mujtahida: |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by intruxive(m): 4:09pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
Go and ask south sudan if they came back from the north with their property or if they were allowed to remain, ode. You want to eat ur cake and have it, u dont even know what is secession ![]() 29 Likes |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Mujtahida: 4:26pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
jpphilips:If not for the crude and even stupid way Kanu and his cohorts have gone about the agitation for Biafra, asking for Biafra does not amount to denouncing Nigeria. If he had simply said 'we want our own country based on certain socio-historical and political factors and stuck to that line', I do not think that would have amounted to denouncing Nigeria. Secessionists movements are known all over the world- the Kurds in Turkey, the Catalans in Spain, Texans and Californians in the US. Infact I didn't know that there's a Secessionist movement in Andalusia(Spain) until Sergio Ramos wrapped himself with their flag at the just concluded champions league final. Just a quick check on Wikipedia revealed that there are 32 countries in Europe with secessionists movements with some having at least three different secessionist movements (18 in Spain alone and 14 in France). Remember that the right to self determination is a universally recognised right enshrined in the United Nations Charter and the African Charter on Human and People's Rights. (I am not for or against Biafra. I am just stating facts and giving my own opinion as per my understanding. What I really desire is a restructuring of this nation, true federalism oo, federal fiscalism oo, resource control, whatever nomenclature we chose.) Your second paragraph: I did say EXCEPT we change our extant laws. My major point is that these things as it stands now are not so stark as you posit. Yes one can presume that Nigeria will act in ways that safeguards her interest and even get downright punitive and vindictive. However trust me when I tell you that even when the laws are changed there will be a lot of litigation in our courts on these issues. That much I can presume. Obtaining Governor's consent is not as hard as you make it look. I have done it for foreigners at least twice. But then maybe you speak from your own experience as these things vary. I am however aware that Lagos for example in her bid to become a global player is reforming her land laws because this are factors that go to determine the ease of doing business in a particular place. Cheers 12 Likes |
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Paretomaster(m): 4:34pm On Jun 08, 2017 |
fulanmafia: That is it, but amidst all dis hatred, they still expect to remain here, and do business. .. 20 Likes 1 Share |
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