kikuyu1:


Whenever you see Somalis ranting on the net or IRL always remember they've fought everyone at one time -and lost. Ethiopia, Kenya,UN forces and US rangers in 93 (they lost very badly,btw) and IIRC Djiboutians in the 70s who are not strictly Somalis but a Kushite group called Afars,like first cousins. Abdi , for reasons of his own regarded their land as his.

They have a very bad track record in war indeed.

kikuyu1:


Whenever you see Somalis ranting on the net or IRL always remember they've fought everyone at one time -and lost. Ethiopia, Kenya,UN forces and US rangers in 93 (they lost very badly,btw) and IIRC Djiboutians in the 70s who are not strictly Somalis but a Kushite group called Afars,like first cousins. Abdi , for reasons of his own regarded their land as his.

Stop misleading people.

SirWere:

They have a very bad track record in war indeed.

Don't listen to that fool. Somalia has never faced Kenya in battle and Somalia was defeated by the Soviet Union in the 1977/78 war. If we're talking about overall military history, no other African group has accomplished as much as Cushites and especially Somalis.

Secondly, my mother is from Djibouti where 60% of the country is Somali and the president has always been Somali, so of course we claim it, the same way we claim Ethiopia and Kenya too.

kikuyu1:


Coops were used at the grassroots level to mobilise resources. Members of all tribes formed group land buying companies issuing shares to their members. The coop idea branched out into all sectors of Kenya,agriculture,trade and business and now increasingly the finance world where coop credit unions are called SACCOS.

The vibrant and dynamic cooperative movement in Kenya – the strongest in Africa – is a key player in the economy, [/b]controlling about 43 per cent of Kenya’s gross domestic product (GDP). The Cooperative Societies in Kenya employs more than 300,000 people, besides providing opportunities for self-employment to many more. [b]Savings and credit societies (Saccos), the fastest growing sub-sector in the movement, have mobilised savings of more than Kshs 230 billio
https://softkenya.com/kenya/cooperatives-in-kenya/

Jomo pioneered the concept. Has it succeeded? HELLZ,YEAH!

He was called a tribalist. Here was his first cabinet:



http://jamhurimagazine.com/index.php/politics/3344-1974-kenyatta-government-kenya-then.html


Six are Kikuyus and their Meru and Embu first cousins. Take away both Nyagah and Angaine, 4 out of 20 or 25% are Kikuyu out of 30% share of the national population.
The Somali border thing was actually a real live shooting war! being the majority,at least 95% of neighbouring NE province they insisted on joining their cousins. Kenyatta said,"feel free to leave." They took that to mean secession fought and lost-badly!


If you know anything about Somalis IRL or from their posts here you'd know it was inevitable:colonialism told them they were superior to bantus.

Stop exaggerating the only significant military action the KDF has had. Your ignorance shows that you think Kenyatta agreed to Somalis leaving lol. Hbuyosh, come and see this nonsense.

The KDF faced ragtag civilians after the Somalis voted to leave and join Somalia. If the KDF hadn't subdued those civilians, that would have been utterly embarrassing for the Kenyan nation. But to say that Somalia actually engaged Kenya in war is just a barefaced lie. Tell it like how it is and say you faced an unorganised civilian group and obviously subdued them.

As for the other stuff about us believing to be superior to Bantus - Somalis and many other Cushitic groups possess that arrogance and view their ethnicity to be greater than all others. It's called ethnocentrism and Somalis are champions of it, but obviously you being a Bantu speaker is butt-hurt because a Somali person thinks he's superior to you pfft lol I don't see whites and Arabs complaining about it so remove that chip on your shoulder and don't worry about us.

ArtanK:


Stop exaggerating the only significant military action the KDF has had. Your ignorance shows that you think Kenyatta agreed to Somalis leaving lol. Hbuyosh, come and see this nonsense.

The KDF faced ragtag civilians after the Somalis voted to leave and join Somalia. If the KDF hadn't subdued those civilians, that would have been utterly embarrassing for the Kenyan nation. But to say that Somalia actually engaged Kenya in war is just a barefaced lie. Tell it like how it is and say you faced an unorganised civilian group and obviously subdued them.

As for the other stuff about us believing to be superior to Bantus - Somalis and many other Cushitic groups possess that arrogance and view their ethnicity to be greater than all others. It's called ethnocentrism and Somalis are champions of it, but obviously you being a Bantu speaker is butt-hurt because a Somali person thinks he's superior to you pfft lol I don't see whites and Arabs complaining about it so remove that chip on your shoulder and don't worry about us.

Whatever, nigga! Srsly,you guys do go on. How has that penchant for war helped your cause? The only war you guys ever won is the one that dismantled your 6th world nation. Your attitude is extremely amusing-if You think its a chip on my shoulder so be it.

ArtanK:


Stop exaggerating the only significant military action the KDF has had. Your ignorance shows that you think Kenyatta agreed to Somalis leaving lol. Hbuyosh, come and see this nonsense.

The KDF faced ragtag civilians after the Somalis voted to leave and join Somalia. If the KDF hadn't subdued those civilians, that would have been utterly embarrassing for the Kenyan nation. But to say that Somalia actually engaged Kenya in war is just a barefaced lie. Tell it like how it is and say you faced an unorganised civilian group and obviously subdued them.

As for the other stuff about us believing to be superior to Bantus - Somalis and many other Cushitic groups possess that arrogance and view their ethnicity to be greater than all others. It's called ethnocentrism and Somalis are champions of it, but obviously you being a Bantu speaker is butt-hurt because a Somali person thinks he's superior to you pfft lol I don't see whites and Arabs complaining about it so remove that chip on your shoulder and don't worry about us.

Wow! It's been such a long time buddy.

I agree with Kikuyu1 just to an extent.

Somalia's irredentism caused it to wage wars with nearly all its neighbors but it lost in all those wars, it didnt achieve even a single of its objectives.

Somalia has never ever engaged in an all out war with Kenya, but from the mid sixties till the late 70s, one could get the sense that a war btwn the two was brewing ( okay I wasnt around then, but this is what I gathered frm the Kenyan newspapers and magazines of the time), and that the situation would explode at the slightest spark.

But were it to flare up btwn the two countries, I honestly believe that Somalia would have had Kenya totally beat. Cos Kenya in the 70s, in comparison with its neighbors did not invest much in its military, ie interms of the military assets and personnel.

Some say it was because Pres. Kenyatta had little interest in military affairs, that he was only concerned about the economic growth etc etc...but honestly, all that is bullcr*p. Latest rumour has it that Kenyatta infact was weary of a strong military, having witnessed what happened in the other parts of Africa, the rising trend of the military deposing civilian govts. He was therefore wilfully weakening the military whilst strengthening the police unit called the GSU (they were more like the presidential guard) whom he trusted more.

Somalia never engaged in a war with Kenya, but funded the secessionist element in Kenya called the Shifta. It was the GSU rather than the Kenyan military which played the greater role in dealing with the Shifta rebels.

This may be embarassing to admit, but Kenya in the 70s still depended on the British and the Israelis, and probably even the Americans for national defence, and it was very evident that the former two were preparing to wade into the Kenya- Uganda war when Idi Amin was spoiling for a fight with Kenya.

So, Somalia advance into Kenya would have been halted by the British, Israeli and the American military in support of the only capitalist nation in this part of the world. But then again, the Russians, would have entered the war, probably. They hated the Kenyan capitalism.

However, signs of the Kenyan Somalis waning interest to join their kind in Somalia begun to show when the new govt in Somalia under Siad Barre introduced Socialism as the economic policy in that country, for the Somalis are capitalists by nature.

The repressive nature of that regime didnt help the quest, and when finally Somalia descended into the anarchy it is in currently, the Kenyan Somalis had no recourse but to eat the humble pie, and to agree to integrate with the rest of the Kenyan society.

kikuyu1:


Whatever, nigga! Srsly,you guys do go on. How has that penchant for war helped your cause? The only war you guys ever won is the one that dismantled your 6th world nation. Your attitude is extremely amusing-if You think its a chip on my shoulder so be it.

What attitude are you talking about you? You're the only one showing attitude problems and talking trash about millions of people.

And it's funny how you equate the actions of the socialist maniac Siad Barre with the wishes of all Somali nationals. Why are you ignoring the fact that it was that same maniac that caused the civil war and the 1977/78 war? Only ignorant fools talk like you do and I can't have an objective debate with a person whose source of knowledge is Wikipedia.

I stand by what I said. You should remove that chip on your shoulder, your pathetic wailing shows you have deep animosity for Somalis. The Kikuyus I know are usually proud and arrogant themselves so it must be only you.

Hbuyosh:


Wow! It's been such a long time buddy.

I agree with Kikuyu1 just to an extent.

Somalia's irredentism caused it to wage wars with nearly all its neighbors but it lost in all those wars, it didnt achieve even a single of its objectives.

Somalia has never ever engaged in an all out war with Kenya, but from the mid sixties till the late 70s, one could get the sense that a war btwn the two was brewing ( okay I wasnt around then, but this is what I gathered frm the Kenyan newspapers and magazines of the time), and that the situation would explode at the slightest spark.

But were it to flare up btwn the two countries, I honestly believe that Somalia would have had Kenya totally beat. Cos Kenya in the 70s, in comparison with its neighbors did not invest much in its military, ie interms of the military assets and personnel.

Some say it was because Pres. Kenyatta had little interest in military affairs, that he was only concerned about the economic growth etc etc...but honestly, all that is bullcr*p. Latest rumour has it that Kenyatta infact was weary of a strong military, having witnessed what happened in the other parts of Africa, the rising trend of the military deposing civilian govts. He was therefore wilfully weakening the military whilst strengthening the police unit called the GSU (they were more like the presidential guard) whom he trusted more.

Somalia never engaged in a war with Kenya, but funded the secessionist element in Kenya called the Shifta. It was the GSU rather than the Kenyan military which played the greater role in dealing with the Shifta rebels.

This may be embarassing to admit, but Kenya in the 70s still depended on the British and the Israelis, and probably even the Americans for national defence, and it was very evident that the former two were preparing to wade into the Kenya- Uganda war when Idi Amin was spoiling for a fight with Kenya.

So, Somalia advance into Kenya would have been halted by the British, Israeli and the American military in support of the only capitalist nation in this part of the world. But then again, the Russians, would have entered the war, probably. They hated the Kenyan capitalism.

However, signs of the Kenyan Somalis waning interest to join their kind in Somalia begun to show when the new govt in Somalia under Siad Barre introduced Socialism as the economic policy in that country, for the Somalis are capitalists by nature.

The repressive nature of that regime didnt help the quest, and when finally Somalia descended into the anarchy it is in currently, the Kenyan Somalis had no recourse but to eat the humble pie, and to agree to integrate with the rest of the Kenyan society.

Hey mate, everyone seems to have taken a hiatus from NL at the same time.

I agree with everything you said there. The thing that irked me is how he painted the Shifta wars as Somalia vs Kenya or that Kenya defeated Somalis when the odds were pretty much stacked against Somalis to begin with. I mean it doesn't matter if the rebels were funded by Somalia, there is no way a fully trained military will lose a fight against a ragtag militia. Unless they had multiple international backers, their endeavour was bound to fail from the beginning.

Siad Barre ruined Somalia and he will forever be a black stain on Somali history. If it wasn't for the 1977 war, Somalis in Ethiopia could have been among the ruling elite in the country. Today, Somalis must seek alliances with other major ethnicities, whilst the Tigrayans who are less in numbers have been ruling the country for over 30 years.

There is now renewed hope in the Somalia, as president Farmaajo has stated that he's committed to working with Kenya and Ethiopia to establish a safe and prosperous horn. I truly hope that he's serious about this as we are tired of being the black sheep of the horn.

ArtanK:


Hey mate, everyone seems to have taken a hiatus from NL at the same time.

I agree with everything you said there. The thing that irked me is how he painted the Shifta wars as Somalia vs Kenya or that Kenya defeated Somalis when the odds were pretty much stacked against Somalis to begin with. I mean it doesn't matter if the rebels were funded by Somalia, there is no way a fully trained military will lose a fight against a ragtag militia. Unless they had multiple international backers, their endeavour was bound to fail from the beginning.

Siad Barre ruined Somalia and he will forever be a black stain on Somali history. If it wasn't for the 1977 war, Somalis in Ethiopia could have been among the ruling elite in the country. Today, Somalis must seek alliances with other major ethnicities, whilst the Tigrayans who are less in numbers have been ruling the country for over 30 years.

There is now renewed hope in the Somalia, as president Farmaajo has stated that he's committed to working with Kenya and Ethiopia to establish a safe and prosperous horn. I truly hope that he's serious about this as we are tired of being the black sheep of the horn.

Yeah, all over sudden our friends on this forum simply disappeared, I see mostly new faces here these days discussing East African issues. Enlightenedsoul, Ajuran, Somali12, onila, sexkills....you....where did they all go?

It seems to me that Farmaajo is really committed to transforming that country, but he will need the support of the whole Somalis.
At this point, Somalis shouldnt experience the clan divisions of the past, which to a great extent contributed to the current mess Somalia is in today.

So far, he is enjoying massive support both locally and internationally, thankfully. But the only pain on his side is the Alshabaab.

ArtanK:


Stop misleading people.



Don't listen to that fool. Somalia has never faced Kenya in battle and Somalia was defeated by the Soviet Union in the 1977/78 war. If we're talking about overall military history, no other African group has accomplished as much as Cushites and especially Somalis.

Secondly, my mother is from Djibouti where 60% of the country is Somali and the president has always been Somali, so of course we claim it, the same way we claim Ethiopia and Kenya too.

I'm a bit confused here. You say Somalia never attacked Kenya while Kenyans say Somalia attacked and attempted to hold the NE province of Kenya leading to the border conflict.

As for military might, can you give me a brief rundown of Somalis successes? I'm rather curious because the only major player I know is Ethiopia and their empire.


Last, by "claim", do you mean you think you own the land or you acknowledge and are proud of the Somalis living in the respective countries??

ArtanK:


Stop misleading people.



Don't listen to that fool. Somalia has never faced Kenya in battle and Somalia was defeated by the Soviet Union in the 1977/78 war. If we're talking about overall military history, no other African group has accomplished as much as Cushites and especially Somalis.

Secondly, my mother is from Djibouti where 60% of the country is Somali and the president has always been Somali, so of course we claim it, the same way we claim Ethiopia and Kenya too.

Abdi,I'm not a fool,not by any means! My info on the Shifta war is from ex servicemen who served just after Uhuru and into the early 80s including GSU,AP,regular cops and army. It was war of mainly small units;platoons at most coys. Yes,Somalian units crossed the border to help their boys and got stalemated. A peace deal was signed in Arusha in 1967 between Jomo and Shermake.
After this they turned to irregular warfare and small scale banditry the worst of which ended in the 80s. You weren't defeated by Russians and Cubans in your Ogaden misadventure! It was Ethiopians-Gurages,Oromos and Amharas.
Let me get someone who would also know the details-hati13,come and see this:Somalia was defeated by the Soviet Union in the 1977/78 war.

Hbuyosh:
Yeah, all over sudden our friends on this forum simply disappeared, I see mostly new faces here these days discussing East African issues. Enlightenedsoul, Ajuran, Somali12, onila, sexkills....you....where did they all go?

It seems to me that Farmaajo is really committed to transforming that country, but he will need the support of the whole Somalis.
At this point, Somalis shouldnt experience the clan divisions of the past, which to a great extent contributed to the current mess Somalia is in today.

So far, he is enjoying massive support both locally and internationally, thankfully. But the only pain on his side is the Alshabaab.

I'm glad Ajuran left this place for good haha. On the other hand, I'm sad that I never got to say goodbye to Enlightenedsoul and Fulaman. They were without doubt my two favourite users. I'm being unashamedly biased with E-soul, and as much as she doesn't like being labelled queen, she was a true Somali Boqora! The others I didn't really interact with much.

I'm really optimistic about the future of Somalia and I feel this optimism is something that is shared by the majority of the Somalis, both home and abroad. Many prayers on him and his path to revive Somalia.

By the way, I'm flying to Addis Ababa tomorrow night, where I'll stay for a week for some admin work and then I'll head to Berbera in the north. I'll be staying there and Bosaso in the north east for least two years, if thing go as planned.

I guess this sort of a goodbye. Peace and blessings my brothers and sister Hati13 Hbuyosh Ednited

ArtanK:


I'm glad Ajuran left this place for good haha. On the other hand, I'm sad that I never got to say goodbye to Enlightenedsoul and Fulaman. They were without doubt my two favourite users. I'm being unashamedly biased with E-soul, and as much as she doesn't like being labelled queen, she was a true Somali Boqora! The others I didn't really interact with much.

I'm really optimistic about the future of Somalia and I feel this optimism is something that is shared by the majority of the Somalis, both home and abroad. Many prayers on him and his path to revive Somalia.

By the way, I'm flying to Addis Ababa tomorrow night, where I'll stay for a week for some admin work and then I'll head to Berbera in the north. I'll be staying there and Bosaso in the north east for least two years, if thing go as planned.

I guess this sort of a goodbye. Peace and blessings my brothers and sister Hati13 Hbuyosh Ednited

Are you leaving nairaland??

ArtanK:


I'm glad Ajuran left this place for good haha. On the other hand, I'm sad that I never got to say goodbye to Enlightenedsoul and Fulaman. They were without doubt my two favourite users. I'm being unashamedly biased with E-soul, and as much as she doesn't like being labelled queen, she was a true Somali Boqora! The others I didn't really interact with much.

I'm really optimistic about the future of Somalia and I feel this optimism is something that is shared by the majority of the Somalis, both home and abroad. Many prayers on him and his path to revive Somalia.

By the way, I'm flying to Addis Ababa tomorrow night, where I'll stay for a week for some admin work and then I'll head to Berbera in the north. I'll be staying there and Bosaso in the north east for least two years, if thing go as planned.

I guess this sort of a goodbye. Peace and blessings my brothers and sister Hati13 Hbuyosh Ednited

Walal Artank, why are you leaving NL?
Please at least rarely visit this forum. If not, then thanks for chatting with me.

Love and peace brother!

ArtanK:


I'm glad Ajuran left this place for good haha. On the other hand, I'm sad that I never got to say goodbye to Enlightenedsoul and Fulaman. They were without doubt my two favourite users. I'm being unashamedly biased with E-soul, and as much as she doesn't like being labelled queen, she was a true Somali Boqora! The others I didn't really interact with much.

I'm really optimistic about the future of Somalia and I feel this optimism is something that is shared by the majority of the Somalis, both home and abroad. Many prayers on him and his path to revive Somalia.

By the way, I'm flying to Addis Ababa tomorrow night, where I'll stay for a week for some admin work and then I'll head to Berbera in the north. I'll be staying there and Bosaso in the north east for least two years, if thing go as planned.

I guess this sort of a goodbye. Peace and blessings my brothers and sister Hati13 Hbuyosh Ednited

We wish u well in your endeavours in Somalia.

But hey, are u quitting Nl for good? We hope u will be coming over here from time to time whenever u get the time to give your perspective on issues, and most important, your experiences in Somalia!