Atheists in the house, I truly want to know your answers to the following questions:
Without a supreme eternal being how are the following posssible:

1. How did we go from nothing existing to things existing?
2. How did things go from non-living to living?
3. How did things change from animals to man - in other words, how did man come about, being so completely different from other animals.

lalasticlala your 2 cents is needed
Seun, u r an atheist, no? Which other mods r atheists? Ishilove, mynd44 ?

ameri9ja:
Atheists in the house, I truly want to know your answers to the following questions:
Without a supreme eternal being how are the following posssible:

1. How did we go from nothing existing to things existing?
2. How did things go from non-living to living?
3. How did things change from animals to man - in other words, how did man come about, being so completely different from other animals.

Oh sorry but I doubt ud get any proper response since atheist, just like theists, hate when their beliefs are questioned beyond their mental capacity. Ironic isn't it? They're​ guilty of the exact thing they condemn all believers for- blind belief! Lol. They are very logical until they have to get illogical to support their logic. Lemme explain: standard science law of causes and affects is suddenly benched to argue that there was once a "Random" big bang out of "nowhere" that started time, space and evolution. See what I mean? Lol

To answer ur question tho, the subject of God is complexity, as only religion posits any kind of practical explanation. But we know, from history, that religions can't be trusted due to their mostly contrived ideologies. This "made up" nature of religion is what disqualifies it and it's claims, atleast for an intellectual mind. Science on the other hand tries to be as investigative as possible, until they have no more leads and resort to stalemate hypothesis disguised as theories. This is where science fails too. So both the theist and atheist end up in the same boat of knowledgeable ignorance. Wouldn't it suffice to just admit that we don't know, rather than feigning one knowledge or the other?

There's obviously an origin/source/creator but its probably not that "God" depicted by religion as an attention-seeking insecure being.

DeepEyes:


Oh sorry but I doubt ud get any proper response since atheist, just like theists, hate when their beliefs are questioned beyond their mental capacity. Ironic isn't it? They're​ guilty of the exact thing they condemn all believers for- blind belief! Lol. They are very logical until they have to get illogical to support their logic. Lemme explain: standard science law of causes and affects is suddenly benched to argue that there was once a "Random" big bang out of "nowhere" that started time, space and evolution. See what I mean? Lol

To answer ur question tho, the subject of God is complexity, as only religion posits any kind of practical explanation. But we know, from history, that religions can't be trusted due to their mostly contrived ideologies. This "made up" nature of religion is what disqualifies it and it's claims, atleast for an intellectual mind. Science on the other hand tries to be as investigative as possible, until they have no more leads and resort to stalemate hypothesis disguised as theories. This is where science fails too. So both the theist and atheist end up in the same boat of knowledgeable ignorance. Wouldn't it suffice to just admit that we don't know, rather than feigning one knowledge or the other?

There's obviously an origin/source/creator but its probably not that "God" depicted by religion as an attention-seeking insecure being.

this post is filled with strawman fallacy

you sound like a deist/pantheist

ameri9ja:
Atheists in the house, I truly want to know your answers to the following questions:
Without a supreme eternal being how are the following posssible:

1. How did we go from nothing existing to things existing?
2. How did things go from non-living to living?
3. How did things change from animals to man - in other words, how did man come about, being so completely different from other animals.

I don't know, atheism lays no claim to such things as origin of life, atheism is simply lack of belief in the existence of god(s) due to lack of good evidence for such

Science however has evolution theory which gives a fairly good explanation about how man evolved, you can read books by evolutionary biologists

hopefulLandlord:


I don't know, atheism lays no claim to such things as origin of life, atheism is simply lack of belief in the existence of god(s) due to lack of good evidence for such

Science however has evolution theory which gives a fairly good explanation about how man evolved, you can read books by evolutionary biologists

Thanks for your answer, BUT atheists claim to KNOW there is no Supreme Being. Which is why I asked atheists not agnostics.

ameri9ja:


Thanks for your answer, BUT atheists claim to KNOW there is no Supreme Being. Which is why I asked atheists not agnostics.

can you mention such atheists that straight up claim to KNOW for sure that there's no greater being?

such an atheist would most likely make that claim due to lack of evidence for such a being outside some gaps in our knowledge so far

as for your "agnostic" part, Theism/atheism speaks to what you *believe*. Gnosticism/agnosticism speaks to what you *know*. One can claim to be a gnostic theist (very common), an agnostic theist (far less common but not unusual), an agnostic atheist (virtually all atheists are this), or a gnostic atheist (these are incredibly rare, and will usually clarify their position by stating that they only take this position regards to specific god claims, as Matt Dillahunty does). Richard Dawkins, easily the most famous atheist advocate, calls himself an agnostic atheist, because he does not believe, but he does not claim to know for certain.

I myself claim to be mostly an agnostic atheist. To the specific claim of the Abrahamic god, I will go so far as to claim gnostic atheism - not because of any special knowledge on my part, but simply because I have yet to hear a description of this deity that passes so much as basic logical coherence. There may yet be a god - but if we do discover one someday, it most likely won't be the one the bible/Koran/Torah/Mormon etc talks about.

DeepEyes:


Oh sorry but I doubt ud get any proper response since atheist, just like theists, hate when their beliefs are questioned beyond their mental capacity. Ironic isn't it? They're​ guilty of the exact thing they condemn all believers for- blind belief! Lol. They are very logical until they have to get illogical to support their logic. Lemme explain: standard science law of causes and affects is suddenly benched to argue that there was once a "Random" big bang out of "nowhere" that started time, space and evolution. See what I mean? Lol

To answer ur question tho, the subject of God is complexity, as only religion posits any kind of practical explanation. But we know, from history, that religions can't be trusted due to their mostly contrived ideologies. This "made up" nature of religion is what disqualifies it and it's claims, atleast for an intellectual mind. Science on the other hand tries to be as investigative as possible, until they have no more leads and resort to stalemate hypothesis disguised as theories. This is where science fails too. So both the theist and atheist end up in the same boat of knowledgeable ignorance. Wouldn't it suffice to just admit that we don't know, rather than feigning one knowledge or the other?

There's obviously an origin/source/creator but its probably not that "God" depicted by religion as an attention-seeking insecure being.

Thanks for your very intelligent answer. Except how would you know the nature of the supreme being. He may very well be as presented by religion. Remember "God" as presented by religion came about through direct experience. It was not theoretical or made-up. I mean Moses, Muhammad, Paul had direct experience of the Supreme Being and they tried to convey him and his message as he presented himself to them.

hopefulLandlord:

this post is filled with strawman fallacy

you sound like a deist/pantheist

I actually think his post is very thoughtful. Instead of being so casually dismissive about his post why not present your own explanation or answers if you have any

hopefulLandlord:

can you mention such atheists that straight up claim to KNOW for sure that there's no greater being?

such an atheist would most likely make that claim due to lack of evidence for such a being outside some gaps in our knowledge so far

as for your "agnostic" part, Theism/atheism speaks to what you *believe*. Gnosticism/agnosticism speaks to what you *know*. One can claim to be a gnostic theist (very common), an agnostic theist (far less common but not unusual), an agnostic atheist (virtually all atheists are this), or a gnostic atheist (these are incredibly rare, and will usually clarify their position by stating that they only take this position regards to specific god claims, as Matt Dillahunty does). Richard Dawkins, easily the most famous atheist advocate, calls himself an agnostic atheist, because he does not believe, but he does not claim to know for certain.

I myself claim to be mostly an agnostic atheist. To the specific claim of the Abrahamic god, I will go so far as to claim gnostic atheism - not because of any special knowledge on my part, but simply because I have yet to hear a description of this deity that passes so much as basic logical coherence. There may yet be a god - but if we do discover one someday, it most likely won't be the one the bible/Koran/Torah/Mormon etc talks about.

The very definition of an atheist is someone who does not believe in the existence of a supreme eternal being. I don't know how someone can answer those questions presented without admitting to the existence of an intelligent controlling outside force

1). Personally, I don't know. Before that, it's some religion by the way that passively claim something came from nothing.

2). Atheism has never made such claim. And BTW as well, science is not the only thing atheism depend on but they agree for now that only science has a good and logical explanation for the events happening around us.

3). I believe evolution is there to answer this question. I myself really don't know much about this evolution stuff cos I can never know everything and don't even want to know everything.



In summary, we don't know. But because we don't know doesn't mean religion should shove the concept of GOD OF THE GAPS down our throat.
We don't know doesn't stop us from asking you that know important logical and critical questions.

If you know, can you please tell us the answers to the question

ameri9ja:


I actually think his post is very thoughtful. Instead of being so casually dismissive about his post why not present your own explanation or answers if you have any

actually I'm not being dismissive of his post, his post is full of strawman

Big Bang theory is NOT an atheistic claim! Big Bang was first proposed by a THEIST, Georges Lemaître who was a belgian physicist and ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST, and eveb the Pope at the time,The Pius XII, wanted to make it part of the Christian doctrine as "proof of god"

he's making it sound like its atheists that brought the theory

ameri9ja:


The very definition of an atheist is someone who does not believe in the existence of a supreme eternal being. I don't know how someone can answer those questions presented without admitting to the existence of an intelligent controlling outside force

you would do your post a world of good by mentioning popular atheists that claim to know for sure that there's no supreme being

Trust me, with the way you're taking this thread, you will soon back out you seem to know very well everything about God.

Anyways, let me be following you response.

ameri9ja:

The very definition of an atheist is someone who does not believe in the existence of a supreme eternal being. I don't know how someone can answer those questions presented without admitting to the existence of an intelligent controlling outside force

I will be making references to the bolded words.

You believe this universe and everything in it is intelligently designed going by your response, now my question to you as well is; how does an undersigned universe look like or how will an undersigned universe look like

Secondly, before now, it was believed malaria, sickle cell, were all punishment from a supreme being, but what do we understand now?

Thirdly, if you believed the universe was intelligently designed, can you pls point out that God that intelligenly designed the universe because every religion will tell you their own God created the universe while dismissing the creation stories of other religions.

ameri9ja:


Thanks for your very intelligent answer. Except how would you know the nature of the supreme being. He may very well be as presented by religion. Remember "God" as presented by religion came about through direct experience. It was not theoretical or made-up. I mean Moses, Muhammad, Paul had direct experience of the Supreme Being and they tried to convey him and his message as he presented himself to them.

Are you a Christian?

Let's start from there

hopefulLandlord:

can you mention such atheists that straight up claim to KNOW for sure that there's no greater being?

such an atheist would most likely make that claim due to lack of evidence for such a being outside some gaps in our knowledge so far

as for your "agnostic" part, Theism/atheism speaks to what you *believe*. Gnosticism/agnosticism speaks to what you *know*. One can claim to be a gnostic theist (very common), an agnostic theist (far less common but not unusual), an agnostic atheist (virtually all atheists are this), or a gnostic atheist (these are incredibly rare, and will usually clarify their position by stating that they only take this position regards to specific god claims, as Matt Dillahunty does). Richard Dawkins, easily the most famous atheist advocate, calls himself an agnostic atheist, because he does not believe, but he does not claim to know for certain.

I myself claim to be mostly an agnostic atheist. To the specific claim of the Abrahamic god, I will go so far as to claim gnostic atheism - not because of any special knowledge on my part, but simply because I have yet to hear a description of this deity that passes so much as basic logical coherence. There may yet be a god - but if we do discover one someday, it most likely won't be the one the bible/Koran/Torah/Mormon etc talks about.

I read your post again. Well thanks for the education. You must be really versed on this topic. Still, if you look around you and be honest with yourself, belief in God works. It produces a kind of peace and wholesomeness. Prayers get answered. People constantly testify that everything failed till they came to God, Christ. That's just everyday reality

ameri9ja:
Atheists in the house, I truly want to know your answers to the following questions:
Without a supreme eternal being how are the following posssible:

1. How did we go from nothing existing to things existing?

You can ask the same for a "supreme eternal being" if it is assumed to be existing.

2. How did things go from non-living to living?

You can also ask the same for a "supreme eternal being" if it is supposed to be existing.

3. How did things change from animals to man - in other words, how did man come about, being so completely different from other animals.

Which animal isn't unique in its own way?
What makes man so special?

hopefulLandlord:

this post is filled with strawman fallacy

you sound like a deist/pantheist

Sorry, hopefulLandlord. Forgive my prior post. I did not check who posted it b4 replying. I'm new at this

LoL


Them atheists don start dismantle the thread

In a nutshell the atheistic picture of universe can be seen the below:

ScepticalPyrrho:
You can ask the same for a "supreme eternal being" if it is assumed to be existing.
You can also ask the same for a "supreme eternal being" if it is supposed to be existing.
Which animal isn't unique in its own way?
What makes man so special?

1. That's why religion beats everything else, because it says from the onset that there is an ETERNAL, TIMELESS being who has always been there and will always be there.
2. ONLY the existence of such a being can answer those questions.
3. Common sense and instinct, if you are honest , will tell you that no amount of evolution can turn any other animal human-like

It's best to admit not knowing atimes
There are still a lot of things we don't know

adepeter26:

Are you a Christian?

Let's start from there

If you look around you and be honest with yourself, belief in God works. It produces a kind of peace and wholesomeness. Prayers get answered. People constantly testify that everything failed till they came to God, Christ. That's just everyday reality

(Modify) (Quote) (Report) (Share)

ameri9ja:

I read your post again. Well thanks for the education. You must be really versed on this topic. Still, if you look around you and be honest with yourself, belief in God works. It produces a kind of peace and wholesomeness. Prayers get answered. People constantly testify that everything failed till they came to God, Christ. That's just everyday reality

a psychiatrist was treating a patient that suffers from insanity brought about by the fact that she couldn't bear a child which led to divorce

every morning in this psychiatric home, she'll call for the doctor joyfully and point to a corner in her room and say "Doctor! I gave birth to twins last night, look at them", the doctor then pretends its true and that he can see these children she's talking about, she does this everyday and the doctor plays along each time

when asked by a journalist who was interested in this patient's predicament why he plays along despite knowing the woman is living a lie, he replied "it helps her maintain much better sanity and if I have a power to make her see reality again, I wouldn't"

what I'm trying to pass with that story is that IF belief in some supernatural, supreme, eternal, all powerful, all knowing, all loving being works for you, if it gives you peace and wholesomeness, if it helps give your life a meaning, if it helps you cope with life's challenges, if it helps you be a better person then I wouldn't take that belief away from you even if I have the power; You can wear purple robes eat cardboard and worship the almighty chia pet in your home or church and I have no problem with what you believe.

i however can't believe such with you, the best I could do is pretend to believe it. But I refuse to be that person. I'm hopeful that you'd rather deal with an honest me than a guy who simply pays lip service to popular beliefs just to get along with others......

ameri9ja:


1. That's why religion beats everything else, because it says from the onset that there is an ETERNAL, TIMELESS being who has always been there and will always be there.

You very been failing to respond to my mentions. LoL
Yet you responding with certainty that God is the answer to all.
Divine fallacy

2. ONLY the existence of such a being can answer those questions.

What was responsible for lightning & thunder in the past?
What was responsible for for malaria in the past?
What was responsible for death of infants in the past?
HIV was thought to be what in the past?

3. Common sense and instinct, if you are honest , will tell you that no amount of evolution can turn any other animal human-like

Do you agree dinasaurs once lived on the surface of this earth?
Do you agree some insects are now extinct?

ameri9ja:


If you look around you and be honest with yourself, belief in God works.

And I ask you this same question again, how does a universe without God look like?

It produces a kind of peace and wholesomeness. Prayers get answered.

This is what religion does. Anyways, I feel more comfortable now than ever

People constantly testify that everything failed till they came to God, Christ. That's just everyday reality

Mehn, I'm tired....

Yes God exist. God designed it. You have it

adepeter26:
1). Personally, I don't know. Before that, it's some religion by the way that passively claim something came from nothing.

2). Atheism has never made such claim. And BTW as well, science is not the only thing atheism depend on but they agree for now that only science has a good and logical explanation for the events happening around us.

3). I believe evolution is there to answer this question. I myself really don't know much about this evolution stuff cos I can never know everything and don't even want to know everything.



In summary, we don't know. But because we don't know doesn't mean religion should shove the concept of GOD OF THE GAPS down our throat.
We don't know doesn't stop us from asking you that know important logical and critical questions.

If you know, can you please tell us the answers to the question

Remember sincere religion came from DIRECT EXPERIENCE of the being. Religion never claimed something came from nothing. They say there is an intelligent timeless being. And, honestly that's the only thing that answer those questions.

As for evolution, let's just be honest with ourselves for a minute, point to any animal you think will evolve into man. Man was GIVEN certain attributes from the ONSET that radically separates him from other animals.
Once more, look around you and be honest with yourself, belief in God works. It produces a kind of peace and wholesomeness. Prayers get answered. People constantly testify that everything failed till they came to God, Christ. That's just everyday reality

(Modify) (Quote) (Report) (Share)

Richirich713:
In a nutshell the atheistic picture of universe can be seen the below:

Don't make fun of atheists. They seem to make sense when looking at small everyday things: malaria, 2+2=4. They only stop making sense when you consider big questions

ameri9ja:


Remember sincere religion came from DIRECT EXPERIENCE of the being. Religion never claimed something came from nothing.

Remember you said everything must have a creator and since universe is so complex, God created it.
For god to have the universe, something more complex than god must have created Him which is a Dog.

Why terminate / breakout the loop at God? I believe you know what LOOP(in programming) is

They say there is an intelligent timeless being.

And yet you disagree with bigbang? What's the difference between big bang and what you just stated above?

And, honestly that's the only thing that answer those questions.

As for evolution, let's just be honest with ourselves for a minute, point to any animal you think will evolve into man.

You wanna tell me humans 200years ago are still same humans in 2017?
Ain't we evolving technologically?
Ain't we evolving genetically and physiologically?

Oh, you think evolution is a one night event just like God magically created the universe in 6days? That isn't how evolution work.

Man was GIVEN certain attributes from the ONSET that radically separates him from other animals.
Once more, look around you and be honest with yourself, belief in God works.

Divine fallacy.

It produces a kind of peace and wholesomeness. Prayers get answered. People constantly testify that everything failed till they came to God, Christ. That's just everyday reality

If you gathered nothing better to say stop yarning this anthem joor.

hopefulLandlord:

a psychiatrist was treating a patient that suffers from insanity brought about by the fact that she couldn't bear a child which led to divorce

every morning in this psychiatric home, she'll call for the doctor joyfully and point to a corner in her room and say "Doctor! I gave birth to twins last night, look at them", the doctor then pretends its true and that he can see these children she's talking about, she does this everyday and the doctor plays along each time

when asked by a journalist who was interested in this patient's predicament why he plays along despite knowing the woman is living a lie, he replied "it helps her maintain much better sanity and if I have a power to make her see reality again, I wouldn't"

what I'm trying to pass with that story is that IF belief in some supernatural, supreme, eternal, all powerful, all knowing, all loving being works for you, if it gives you peace and wholesomeness, if it helps give your life a meaning, if it helps you cope with life's challenges, if it helps you be a better person then I wouldn't take that belief away from you even if I have the power; You can wear purple robes eat cardboard and worship the almighty chia pet in your home or church and I have no problem with what you believe.

i however can't believe such, the best I could do is pretend to believe it. But I refuse to be that person. I'm hopeful that you'd rather deal with an honest me than a guy who simply pays lip service to popular beliefs just to get along with others......

Thanks for the funny story. I will use it sometime
The problem is that sincere religion did not come from imagination. It came from direct experience of sometjing/someone supernatural.
Someone put the Koran on mohamed's lips, a total illiterate. St Paul was bent on stamping out Christianity until he encountered someone and became Christianity's biggest proponent, etc.

ameri9ja:


1. That's why religion beats everything else, because it says from the onset that there is an ETERNAL, TIMELESS being who has always been there and will always be there.

I totally disagree. It's not religion that makes posits such as an "eternal timeless being". Early philosophers engaged in proposing rational explanation for the origin of the cosmos, and they came up with these ideas. Religion presents petty gods like Yahweh, Mazda, Zeus etc.

2. ONLY the existence of such a being can answer those questions.

Is it you or the existence of such being that has come up with answers?

3. Common sense and instinct, if you are honest , will tell you that no amount of evolution can turn any other animal human-like

What is so special about humans?

ameri9ja

ameri9ja:


Don't make fun of atheists. They seem to make sense when looking at small everyday things: malaria, 2+2=4. They only stop making sense when you consider big questions

I'm not making fun of them, that's actually what most of them believe. I'm pretty sure most atheists here on nairaland will agree with ±90% of the pic.

The Loop

<?php 

for ($x = creation; $x <= universe; $x++; ) {
echo 'everything must have a creator';
if ($x == 'God') {
echo 'Loop terminated';
echo &nbsp; . 'God is excluded';
} 
break;
} 

?>

Or

The Loop

<?php 

for ($x = creation; $x <= universe; $x++; ) {
echo 'everything must have a creator';
if ($x == 'God') {
echo 'Alert Alert Alert';
continue;
} 
} 
?>