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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist (30192 Views)
The Failure Of Christian Deism / Deism, "-there Must Be Something" / From Christianity To Deism: My New Journey Has Just Started (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by ScepticalPyrrho: 9:39pm On Jul 11, 2017 |
I can imagine the existence of a first cause... the Deist god. I can attach any features I want to it because it's all in my head... I could succumb to emotions by claiming this "first cause" must have special feeling for me more than monkeys just to feel good... I could imagine a better place where I would spend eternity with my "first cause" after I die... afterall it's all my wish. But KingEbukasBlog/Felixomor have failed to show us how Yahweh must be that "first cause" we want so badly to exist and not Odin or Zeus. Why should a character like Yahweh be my "first cause"? I can actually do better than Yahweh in my imaginary world. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by felixomor: 9:46pm On Jul 11, 2017 |
ScepticalPyrrho: Are you a deist? |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by ScepticalPyrrho: 10:09pm On Jul 11, 2017 |
felixomor:Nope Deism is simply a postulation which has long been proposed by early philosophers. Every person is entitled to engage in the rational quest for the origin of the cosmos. But none of these claims can be submitted as fact or true. Scientific facts are the only proven reality. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by felixomor: 10:35pm On Jul 11, 2017 |
ScepticalPyrrho:So the topic u raised is an argument between the deist and theist on the nature of God because both already agree that God's existence is undisputable. And also for side note, There is nothing like "proven reality" in science. Science can change its opinion at any time. What is wrong today can be right tomorrow in science. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by Deicide: 12:57am On Jul 12, 2017 |
Is this guy actually listening to himself? Whatever being that exists must have a creator basically God is not a being Nawa o circular argument. well most deist arguments is base on ignorance 1 Like |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by Deicide: 12:59am On Jul 12, 2017 |
felixomor:Yeah like how 1 + 1 = 2 can change to = 5 tomorrow 1 Like |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by felixomor: 2:34am On Jul 12, 2017 |
Deicide:Ignoramus, You dont even know that 1+1 in base 2, can be equal to something else ........ Mscheww 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by Deicide: 2:44am On Jul 12, 2017 |
felixomor:One plus one in base 2 is still equal to two in base 10 in base two itll be 00000010 which is still 2 in base 10 it amazes me how you think sha or did you think you actually made any sense? or does 1 + 1 = 2 in base 10 equals 5? |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by Nobody: 2:46am On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Issues with this argument are mainly: why is the creator an exception to the rule? 1 Like |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 2:53am On Jul 12, 2017 |
LightandDarkness: There is no exception here . The premise only focuses on things that came into existence There is a big difference between Whatever begins to exist has cause and Everything has cause . Assuming I had said 'everything has a cause' and made the creator an exception then it becomes special pleading I gave examples of other things that are uncreated Eg abstract objects . |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by Nobody: 2:57am On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Isn't there an assumption then that said creator never began to exist but always existed, with no justification for this assumption. |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 3:00am On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Abstract things do not exist in the real world. Take numbers and lenght- these are abstract concepts that men use to count and measure. You are admitting that your God doesn't exist |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by Nobody: 3:01am On Jul 12, 2017 |
Separately this argument of existence and the nature of that which exists is interesting. I believe to assert that something exists you must describe it's nature, without a description of it's nature then it doesn't exist. To simply describe the existence of something is to state it's nature. 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 3:04am On Jul 12, 2017 |
LightandDarkness: There is no assumption here . We know that something cannot come from nothing and infinite regress is impossible . And we have things coming into being , the expected corollary is to affirm that things that came into being must have been caused by something that has always existed or never came into existence . This is a very simple argument 1. Whatever ever begins to exist must have a cause This is just focusing on things that came into being or began to exist acknowledging that there are things that have always existed or never began to exist due to the necessity of their nature . If all things have causes , then nothing will exist . There is no such as an thing as a infinite chain contingent things . |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 3:05am On Jul 12, 2017 |
LightandDarkness: Nice. This is what I have been telling Ebuka |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 3:06am On Jul 12, 2017 |
LightandDarkness: You can affirm the existence of something without describing its nature , true of false ? Existence is a state of being Nature is just a description Two different things |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by Nobody: 3:07am On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: I see, but can you justify the something that always existed is a creator being or beings or it possessed any form of consciousness or sentience. |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 3:07am On Jul 12, 2017 |
JackBizzle: I'm not here up by this time to indulge in silly arguments . You've had your chance . |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 3:09am On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Why is this one feeling special? Ogbeni, open your eyes. You are in my thread. |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 3:11am On Jul 12, 2017 |
LightandDarkness: Of course . The universe came into being . For the universe to come into being , it shows that its creator expresses freedom of will evidently showing that it is conscious . The creator is aware that it caused the universe's existence . |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by felixomor: 3:12am On Jul 12, 2017 |
Deicide: You are furthering your ignorance "000000010 " ot whatever isnt base 10 My point is made, all I needed to show you was that your "1+1 = 2" is wrong in a different context. Period. If you wrote "2 in base 2" as your answer in a maths exam, you will fail woefully And that clearly tell you that before the introduction of number bases, 1+1 anywhere was 2.... And that was the point I meant by what is right today, can be wrong tomorrow....... I guess u didnt read it before commenting. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 3:12am On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Your definitions are shallow |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by Nobody: 3:12am On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: How can you affirm the existence of something without knowledge or awareness of an aspect of it's nature. Something exists could mean everything exists and is not specific to anyone thing, to even justify the existence of a thing you must've observed something that made you think the thing exists-that would be a proposed quality, property, feature, functions-essentially something pertaining to it's nature. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 3:14am On Jul 12, 2017 |
felixomor: Which means that your belief in God could change tomorrow as things change |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by Nobody: 3:15am On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Your answer assumes knowledge of the nature of that which always existed. |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 3:16am On Jul 12, 2017 |
LightandDarkness: Kingebukasblog, these facts keep coming back to hit you, eh? This is the exact same thing I told him |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 3:16am On Jul 12, 2017 |
JackBizzle: You always argue and abuse when your argument has been shown to be specious and untenable . Prove me wrong : How does the existence of abstract object like numbers , sets etc prove that God does not exist ? If it is not a senseless cavil , then it is not JackBizzle Ogbeni, open your eyes. You are in my thread. Oya come and chase me |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 3:17am On Jul 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: We can look at this thread and see how calm I was until you and your ill started throwing insults. You are asking me to prove the illogical fallacy you spouted? You said God is like abstract concepts and I told you that abstract concepts do not exist |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 3:18am On Jul 12, 2017 |
LightandDarkness: Are existence and nature two different things , yes or no ? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by felixomor: 3:18am On Jul 12, 2017 |
JackBizzle: Hian, We are talking about science and how it operates, We are not talking about God. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by KingEbukasBlog(m): 3:20am On Jul 12, 2017 |
JackBizzle: Show me where I said God is like abstract objects . 1 Like |
Re: Deism- The Last Refuge For A Dubious Religious Apologist by JackBizzle: 3:20am On Jul 12, 2017 |
felixomor: Special pleading for God? What if science disproves God tomorrow? |
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