I am a Catholic member but one thing that I don't seem to understand is why do we say "Holy Mary, mother of God pray for all sinners for now is the hour of our death, Amen" (which i dont say cos i dont believe any saint should talk to Jesus for me) and even go as far as saying all the Saints should pray and intercede on there behalf when Jesus clearly stated it in the bible that "no one comes to the father except through me". I know some people would say "we call on Mary and other saints to help us get to Jesus then Jesus will get to the father" but if that's the case then Jesus Christ shouldn't have come down on earth and show himself to humans. Please what's your take on this matter??

Mynd44
Obinoscopy
Ishilove
Lalasticlala

Check history very well.
You will realised that the devil has but one work...that's, putting confusion in the plans and works of God.

He has been achieving this through our ignorance.

Through history... and what have read so far about catholism.... It simply an Organisation.... leaving under the umbrella of Christianity....

bravesoul247

free yourself from doctrines and dogmas.

you can pray for Mary intercession if you like or you can communicate to Jesus directly.

Be free

onyenze123:
bravesoul247

free yourself from doctrines and dogmas.

you can pray for Mary intercession if you like or you can communicate to Jesus directly.

Be free

What are you saying? Did I tell you I'm in bondage?

Very soon, you will need explanation for every word in the Bible.

First it is "for now and the hour of our death"
Second we pray directly to God through Jesus
The Hail Mary and other prayers are just additional like u said asking for assistance.
But try attending the church seminar on doctrinal teachings for more explanation

bravesoul247:
I am a Catholic member but one thing that I don't seem to understand is why do we say "Holy Mary, mother of God pray for all sinners for now is the hour of our death, Amen" (which i dont say cos i dont believe any saint should talk to Jesus for me) and even go as far as saying all the Saints should pray and intercede on there behalf when Jesus clearly stated it in the bible that "no one comes to the father except through me". I know some people would say "we call on Mary and other saints to help us get to Jesus then Jesus will get to the father" but if that's the case then Jesus Christ shouldn't have come down on earth and show himself to humans. Please what's your take on this matter??

Mynd44
Obinoscopy
Ishilove
Lalasticlala

Heey. You are not a catholic. Stop lying in order to prove your point

impossible27:

Heey. You are not a catholic. Stop lying in order to prove your point

What do you think I'll gain by lying?

bravesoul247:
What do you think I'll gain by lying?

You are a catholic and u are asking all those questions?Do you attend cathcism classes? I guess not because you could have known the answer of those questions yourself.

Let say you did not go to cathcism class, and you are a catholic and you recite "I belive in God"? and you did not still know the answers??

The catholics i know knows their faith. Maybe the next thing u will say is those saying Hail mary are woshiping her or dead saints. My friend you are not a catholic. The thread you open for e-bashing wont work. It will just go down like other thread. Catholics know where to ask about their faith when they are confused not on faceless forum.

impossible27:

You are a catholic and u are asking all those questions?Do you attend cathcism classes? I guess not because you could have known the answer of those questions yourself.

Let say you did not go to cathcism class, and you are a catholic and you recite "I belive in God"? and you did not still know the answers??

The catholics i know knows their faith. Maybe the next thing u will say is those saying Hail mary are woshiping her or dead saints. My friend you are not a catholic. The thread you open for e-bashing wont work. It will just go down like other thread. Catholics know where to ask about their faith when they are confused not on faceless forum.

I need answers which is why I'm asking. The truth is that I've not received holy communion yet cos when I was in the early stages of the class I had to leave for school to write my post ume and didn't come back neither did I take it serious when I gained admission

bravesoul247:
I need answers which is why I'm asking. The truth is that I've not received holy communion yet cos when I was in the early stages of the class I had to leave for school to write my post ume and didn't come back neither did I take it serious when I gained admission

I understand your confusion. Many Catholics are very poorly catechised. The reason why Catholics pray to saints is explained in the Nicene Creed that you recite at every Mass. The part that says *i believe in the communion of Saints.* The Holy Church is composed of three types of believers, that is, the Church Militant (that's us the living), the Church Suffering (the believers in purgatorio) and the Church Triumphant (those in heaven). The Church Triumphant is in heaven in the presence of God and their prayers for their fellow believers are highly needed by us and by those in purgatory. Catholics are different from Protestants in that what we consider worship is called latria and is only done in the form of Holy Mass, Eucharistic Adoration, Benediction and if i'm not wrong in the Canonical Hours as well. Praying the rosary is not latria (worship), it is hyperdulia (praying to Mary) and praying to the rest of the Saints is dulia. I hope this helped. I'm sorry i don't have the time to give you the Biblical basis but there are lots of Biblical references...if I get the time i'll gladly oblige you.

Papist:

I understand your confusion. Many Catholics are very poorly catechised. The reason why Catholics pray to saints is explained in the Nicene Creed that you recite at every Mass. The part that says *i believe in the communion of Saints.* The Holy Church is composed of three types of believers, that is, the Church Militant (that's us the living), the Church Suffering (the believers in purgatorio) and the Church Triumphant (those in heaven). The Church Triumphant is in heaven in the presence of God and their prayers for their fellow believers are highly needed by us and by those in purgatory. Catholics are different from Protestants in that what we consider worship is called latria and is only done in the form of Holy Mass, Eucharistic Adoration, Benediction and if i'm not wrong in the Canonical Hours as well. Praying the rosary is not latria (worship), it is hyperdulia (praying to Mary) and praying to the rest of the Saints is dulia. I hope this helped. I'm sorry i don't have the time to give you the Biblical basis but there are lots of Biblical references...if I get the time i'll gladly oblige you.

Thank you jor but I'll really need those biblical reference

Overflogged issue.

An2elect2:
Only God is omnipresent...but those who pray to saints and one Mary insist there are other omnipresent beings too

Explain to us how Mary is holy?

This is how false preachers and doctrines spring up.

As Christians , you do not do what you "like" when it comes to Christianity. You do what is right in the light of God's word. Jesus Christ has stated that he is the only way to God and our only intercessor, anything else is not Christianity.

onyenze123:
bravesoul247

free yourself from doctrines and dogmas.

you can pray for Mary intercession if you like or you can communicate to Jesus directly.

Be free

Amberon11:
This is how false preachers and doctrines spring up.

As Christians , you do not do what you "like" when it comes to Christianity. You do what is right in the light of God's word. Jesus Christ has stated that he is the only way to God and our only intercessor, anything else is not Christianity.

So I can't goto God through his beloved mother?

Holy Mary Queen of Heaven pray for us

edicied:
Explain to us how Mary is holy?

LOL

Iamabod:
Through history... and what have read so far about catholism.... It simply an Organisation.... leaving under the umbrella of Christianity....

that organisation also gave you the bible in its present form and preserved christianity for 2000yrs.

Have some respect child.

Amberon11:
This is how false preachers and doctrines spring up.

As Christians , you do not do what you "like" when it comes to Christianity. You do what is right in the light of God's word. Jesus Christ has stated that he is the only way to God and our only intercessor, anything else is not Christianity.

are you sure there is only one intercessor, i can bet you are mistaken.

Iamabod:
Through history... and what have read so far about catholism.... It simply an Organisation.... leaving under the umbrella of Christianity....

My dear... every Christian Church is an organization... whichever denomination you belong to is an organization too...

Jesus intended for his Church to be an "organization" of believers... that why he told his apostles to make "disciples of all nations" (mat 28:19-end), that's why the early church is called the "community of believers" having things in common (acts 4:32).... that's why the it is called the "body of Christ" (romans 12, 1 cor 12, Ephe 4), and the "household of God" (1 tim 3:15) and its not just a spiritual, invisible body but also a physical and visible one because Jesus said in his prayer for believers in John 17:21 that his followers will be physically united for the world to see and also in mat 5:14 that we are to be a city set upon a hill that cannot be hidden......
that and all the Churches in the bible were "organizations" of people with bishops as the head...

ON THE ISSUE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH... SIMPLE HISTORY WILL TELL YOU THAT IT IS LONGEST EXISTING CHRISTIAN CHURCH... I BET IT WAS THERE BEFORE YOUR DENOMINATION WAS FOUNDED BY A MAN... NOW WHO WOULD BE HIDING UNDER CHRISTIANITY THE LONGEST EXISTING CHRISTIAN CHURCH THAT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR 2000 YEARS OR A BARELY 100 YRS OLD DENOMINATION... AS UBENEDICTUS SAID... HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR ELDERS

onyenze123:
bravesoul247

free yourself from doctrines and dogmas.

you can pray for Mary intercession if you like or you can communicate to Jesus directly.

Be free

Dear friend, there's nothing wrong with doctrines and dogma, i can understand if you don't like Catholic teachings... but doctrines and dogmas are part of the christian faith...The apostles taught doctrines.... All Churches teach doctrine so dont tell him to free himself from doctrine... because all you're doing is telling him to reject catholic doctrine for some other doctrine....

AND ON PRAYING TO MARY... TO US CATHOLICS IT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM JESUS BECAUSE WE ONLY ASK HER TO PRAY FOR US AS A MOTHER WOULD HELP HER CHILDREN NOT AS A GODDESS AND HELP US WITH HER SON... WE PRAY TO JESUS ALSO AS GOD THAT HE IS... WE END PRAYERS IN JESUS NAME TOO.. WE PRAY TO THE HOLY SPIRIT HECK EVEN THE PRAYERS TO MARY HAVE JESUS TO THEM...

SO STOP DRAWING A FALSE DICHOTOMY... ITS NOT EITHER JESUS OR MARY TO US... ITS BOTH... JESUS FIRST THEN WE CAN ASK OTHER TO PRAY FOR US TOO...

WE ARE A FAMILY OF FAITH AND WE HELP EACH OTHER..

easymancfc:


Dear friend, there's nothing wrong with doctrines and dogma, i can understand if you don't like Catholic teachings... but doctrines and dogmas are part of the christian faith...The apostles taught doctrines.... All Churches teach doctrine so dont tell him to free himself from doctrine... because all you're doing is telling him to reject catholic doctrine for some other doctrine....

AND ON PRAYING TO MARY... TO US CATHOLICS IT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM JESUS BECAUSE WE ONLY ASK HER TO PRAY FOR US AS A MOTHER WOULD HELP HER CHILDREN NOT AS A GODDESS AND HELP US WITH HER SON... WE PRAY TO JESUS ALSO AS GOD THAT HE IS... WE END PRAYERS IN JESUS NAME TOO.. WE PRAY TO THE HOLY SPIRIT HECK EVEN THE PRAYERS TO MARY HAVE JESUS TO THEM...

SO STOP DRAWING A FALSE DICHOTOMY... ITS NOT EITHER JESUS OR MARY TO US... ITS BOTH... JESUS FIRST THEN WE CAN ASK OTHER TO PRAY FOR US TOO...

WE ARE A FAMILY OF FAITH AND WE HELP EACH OTHER..

“The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual,it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity.”

onyenze123:


“The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual,it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity.”

What are you quoting and why should i agree with that mans opinion.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men , the Man Christ Jesus ,

I won't even go back and forth, that verse is clear enough.

Ubenedictus:
are you sure there is only one intercessor, i can bet you are mistaken.

Did God send you to go through Mary? Or through Jesus Christ?

onyenze123:


So I can't goto God through his beloved mother?

Holy Mary Queen of Heaven pray for us

b

Ubenedictus:
What are you quoting and why should i agree with that mans opinion.

Answer this question sincerely:

Does God interfere in the affairs of men?

Amberon11:
Did God send you to go through Mary? Or through Jesus Christ?

"Luke 1:35- And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.''


You go through Christ and you can pray to Mary to intercede for you

An2elect2:
Only God is omnipresent...but those who pray to saints and one Mary insist there are other omnipresent beings too

Actually omnipresence is not needed... It would be more like OMNISCIENCE which means knowing all things... JUST LIKE I DON'T NEED TO BE WHERE YOU ARE TO TALK TO YOU... ALL I NEED TO DO IS HEAR FROM YOU... I can call you on the phone... Write a letter.. Send a mail.. etc
So the saints and Mary don't need omnipresence... More like omniscience... AND THEY DONT EVEN NEED THAT...

Omnipresence means being everywhere and The Catholic Church teaches that only God is Omnipresent...


The Saints and Mary don't need omniscience or omnipresence because...

Firstly, statistically there are over 1 billion catholics against the world population of over 7 billion which is less than 20% of it... In that 1 billion catholics you have cultural catholics, church goers and many more who don't pray to the saints or Mary... So technically they don't every need omniscience all they need is less than 1 billion "Scient" which is not upto 20% of the world's population... Which is nothing compared to God who is "OMNIPOTENT, OMNIPRESENT AND OMNISCIENT... GOD KNOWS EVERY HUMAN BEING, NOT JUST EVERY CHRISTIAN, NOT JUST EVERY CATHOLIC.... HE KNOWS EVERY THING THAT EXISTS ON EARTH, PLANTS, ANIMALS, EVERY PLANET IN THE UNIVERSE, EVERY UNIVERSE IN ALL THE GALAXIES....

SO COMPARED TO GODS OMNISCIENCE, THE SAINTS ABILITY TO HEAR OR BE AWARE OF PRAYERS MADE TO THEM IS NOT OMNISCIENCE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE OMNIPRESENCE....

Secondly.. You assume that the those in Heaven will have the same consciousness or abilities we have... Which is wrong... According to the bible. We will not be limited by time and space as we are now...
Here's what the bible says

1 john 3: 2 Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

1 cor 15: 44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.
49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shallalso bear the image of the man of heaven.
SO WE WILL BE "LIKE GOD"...

and as Paul says in 1 cor 2: 9 But, as it is written,
“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived,
what God has prepared for those who love him,”
Jesus himself says in luke 20: 35 but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, 36 for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection...
SO IT IS CLEAR THAT WE WONT REMAIN THE SAME... WE WILL BE TRANSFORMED... WE WOULD BE LIKE "ANGELS" MEANING EARTHLY RULES WILL NO LONGER APPLY...


THERE IS ALSO BIBLICAL EVIDENCE FOR PEOPLE IN HEAVEN BEING AWARE OF THINGS ON EARTH WITHOUT NEEDING OMNISCIENCE OR OMNIPRESENCE
Heb 12:1 says we have so great a "cloud of witnesses" who cheer us on as we run the race... THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SEE US TO "WITNESS" AND THEY DONT REQUIRE OMNIPRESENCE OR OMNISCIENCE FOR THAT..
TAKE NOTE.. US MEANS ALL THE CHRISTIANS WHICH NUMBER UP TO BILLIONS..

Luke 15:7 says there is great rejoicing in heaven when a sinner repents... IT SAYS JOY IN HEAVEN.. SO EVERY ONE IN HEAVEN.. ANGELS, SAINTS EVERYONE...
How can they rejoice if they dont know what is happening... THERE ARE BILLIONS OF SINNERS ALSO... AND THEY DONT NEED OMNISCIENCE TO KNOW THAT...

Rev 6:9 says the dead martyrs under God's altar were crying for vengeance.. They apparently knew that their killers were alive on Earth and they didnt need OMNISCIENCE TO KNOW THAT..

To conclude..
OMNIPRESENCE/OMNISCIENCE = INFINITE, IMMEASURABLE, UNCOUNTABLE..

less than 1 billion catholics = FINITE, COUNTABLE, MEASURABLE

GOD'S POWER IS INFINITE, HIS KNOWLEGE IS IMMEASURABLE, HE IS EVERYWHERE, SO YOU LIMIT GOD'S POWER BY CONFINING HIS POWER TO LESS THAN 20% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION AND YOU ALSO LIMIT THOSE IN HEAVEN BY ASSUMING THEY WOULD STILL BE LIKE US IN THEIR GLORIOUS STATE..
therefore it is wrong to say it requrires omni (potence, presence or science) to hear just 1 billion prayers or request for prayers...

SATELLITES WHICH ARE MAN MADE CAN PROCESS PHONE SIGNALS, INTERNET SERVICES, CONTROL TRAFFIC, MONITOR PEOPLE AND PLACES ETC SIMULTANEOUSLY WITHOUT BEING OMNISCIENT OR OMNIPRESENCE... I BELIEVE THAT IN OUR GLORIOUS STATE WE CAN ATLEAST HAVE THE ABILITIES OF A MAN MADE SATELLITE....