Rtopzy:
.

Yes, he is the way. The only Way.

obinna58:
Near death experience
It will be more understandable if He died, rose back from death and then share his experience
Not near death

Obina58. You for no talk at all. This your comment no enter. Very stu.pid, true.

obinna58:

Their kind of God prefer acting stupidly with the mind cos he afraid, appearing to humans may put him under siege

You lots shd try debating the Op nah. Why always insults? Lightanddarkness is doing a good job. So show also that your atheism has made you smart.

Discuss the Op Obi stop falling your own hands.

1. Near death experiences are a bit common and it's mechanism has been explained. please google.

2. Spontaneous remission of disease, though uncommon, occurs in people without any 'miraculous' intervention, prayer etc. A man was completely cured of HIV on a course of multivitamins in the UK. He however refused to return for follow up checks, fearing he might become a guinea pig (I no blame am sha). He made no mention of a course of 'prayer' sessions before he left the hospital. Bacterial meningitis is completely treatable by antibiotics. Between the antibiotics and his immune system, a remission, though rare and uncommon, was possible. If Eben Alexander is a neurosurgeon, he knows these basic facts. Why is he avoiding them to justify his 'miraculous' recovery theory?

felixomor:


Sorry you have presented no rebuttal yet.
And its quite obvious you haven't read the thread...

Do well to read.

Dr Eben Alexander is a liar, he is a liar who was just trying to use religious faith to make some cool cash by publishing a book based on lies and fiction.

Over the course of the past 12 years, he has apparently worked at three separate hospitals, but his employment has ended without explanation at each location. Here’s a sample surrounding his departure from one of the hospitals he once worked at:

In August 2003, UMass Memorial suspended Alexander’s surgical privileges “on the basis or allegation of improper performance of surgery.” (The specifics of the case leading to the suspension are confidential, though Alexander claims it resulted from “a very complex repeat operation I did around the brain stem of a patient in which the patient had more difficulty recovering after the operation I would say than I anticipated and than I led them to believe.”) His suspension technically ended in November of that same year, but he never went back to work at UMass Memorial. He resigned. The following year he did a little freelance consulting for the Gerson Lehrman Group, a company that matches corporations with experts in various fields, and also filed an unsuccessful lawsuit against the Brigham and Women’s Hospital, claiming it improperly withheld more than $400,000 of his retirement and deferred-compensation plans. He had been more or less out of work for fifteen months when, in March 2005, he received a letter from the Massachusetts Board of Registration in Medicine asking him to respond to a complaint form they’d received from a former patient who was upset that Alexander had stopped responding to phone calls. Alexander wrote a letter back, explaining that the complaint was invalid because he was no longer practicing and that, furthermore, he would soon be leaving the state altogether.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/03/did-the-famed-neurosurgeon-who-claims-he-saw-god-and-visited-heaven-lie-article-exposes-alleged-inconsistencies/

He was actually a Dr without a job until he devised a means to sell a lie using religious faith to make cool cash. All he is doing is what you and others do all the time, which is to tell lies for Jesus. Even he himself had had to change some of his stories when confronted by other experts.



*Esquire writer accuses famed doctor and author Dr. Eben Alexander of potentially embellishing story and leaving out key details
*Investigation shows alleged disparities in Alexander’s account of the afterlife as told in his book “Proof of Heaven” and by others familiar with the story
*Key personal details about Alexander’s background were withheld from the public, Esquire alleges
*ER doctor who treated the neurosurgeon gives contradictory account of events that unfolded at the hospital during Alexander’s near-death experience

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/03/did-the-famed-neurosurgeon-who-claims-he-saw-god-and-visited-heaven-lie-article-exposes-alleged-inconsistencies/

dalaman:


Dr Eben Alexander is a liar, he is a liar who was just trying to use religious faith to make some cool cash by publishing a book based on lies and fiction.

Over the course of the past 12 years, he has apparently worked at three separate hospitals, but his employment has ended without explanation at each location. Here’s a sample surrounding his departure from one of the hospitals he once worked at:

In August 2003, UMass Memorial suspended Alexander’s surgical privileges “on the basis or allegation of improper performance of surgery.” (The specifics of the case leading to the suspension are confidential, though Alexander claims it resulted from “a very complex repeat operation I did around the brain stem of a patient in which the patient had more difficulty recovering after the operation I would say than I anticipated and than I led them to believe.”) His suspension technically ended in November of that same year, but he never went back to work at UMass Memorial. He resigned. The following year he did a little freelance consulting for the Gerson Lehrman Group, a company that matches corporations with experts in various fields, and also filed an unsuccessful lawsuit against the Brigham and Women’s Hospital, claiming it improperly withheld more than $400,000 of his retirement and deferred-compensation plans. He had been more or less out of work for fifteen months when, in March 2005, he received a letter from the Massachusetts Board of Registration in Medicine asking him to respond to a complaint form they’d received from a former patient who was upset that Alexander had stopped responding to phone calls. Alexander wrote a letter back, explaining that the complaint was invalid because he was no longer practicing and that, furthermore, he would soon be leaving the state altogether.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/03/did-the-famed-neurosurgeon-who-claims-he-saw-god-and-visited-heaven-lie-article-exposes-alleged-inconsistencies/

He was actually a Dr without a job until he devised a means to sell a lie using religious faith to make cool cash. All he is doing is what you and others do all the time, which is to tell lies for Jesus. Even he himself had had to change some of his stories when confronted by other experts.



*Esquire writer accuses famed doctor and author Dr. Eben Alexander of potentially embellishing story and leaving out key details
*Investigation shows alleged disparities in Alexander’s account of the afterlife as told in his book “Proof of Heaven” and by others familiar with the story
*Key personal details about Alexander’s background were withheld from the public, Esquire alleges
*ER doctor who treated the neurosurgeon gives contradictory account of events that unfolded at the hospital during Alexander’s near-death experience

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/03/did-the-famed-neurosurgeon-who-claims-he-saw-god-and-visited-heaven-lie-article-exposes-alleged-inconsistencies/

Not so fast

This case was investigated and Esquire magazine (that you are quoting) LIED

Read.. :
http://skeptiko.com/220-esquire-proof-of-heaven-expose-debunked/

Butterflylion take note.

This guy thought he had found counter evidence
He went to quote a magazine that lied against the doctor who treated Dr Eben.

Yipee

701ecilana:

You lots shd try debating the Op nah. Why always insults? Lightanddarkness is doing a good job. So show also that your atheism has made you smart.

Discuss the Op Obi stop falling your own hands.

I understood that his story wasn't as true as he explained, I mean it got embellished at different levels and sectors b4 reaching to op, do not get me wrong cos I'm not completely doubting the story,
Humans do encounter all sorts of weird experience through different spiritual(crazy) means and that doesn't prove the existence of deity besides what version of god did he met with,
Of course we had thousands of God and people having near death experience always goes with the Pattern or teaching of their own religious God
Eventually he z never gonna escape the punishment of other religions God cos people in other religions also undergoes "near death experience" to prove that their religions God is real.

felixomor:


Sorry you have presented no rebuttal yet.
And its quite obvious you haven't read the thread...

Do well to read.

How? I demonstrated that it was not possible for him to experience and remember a NDE if his neocortex was dead, which by the way is over seventy percent of his brain. I showed that he acknowledges this and his defense is that memories are separate from the body which is not true...and more. It seems you and butterflylion are not capable of arguing science, if that's the case please let us know so in your next thread we'll keep it simple for you guys

obinna58:

I understood that his story wasn't as true as he explained, I mean it got embellished at different levels and sectors b4 reaching to op, do not get me wrong cos I'm not completely doubting the story,
Humans do encounter all sorts of weird experience through different spiritual(crazy) means and that doesn't prove the existence of deity besides what version of god did he met with,
Of course we had thousands of God and people having near death experience always goes with the Pattern or teaching of their own religious God
Eventually he z never gonna escape the punishment of other religions God cos people in other religions also undergoes "near death experience" to prove that their religions God is real.

The Op is not about the punishment of other Gods. Pay close attention and remain consistent, coherent and cohesive with the Op.

Stop trying to bring in what is not in the Op. You 'smart Atheists' should learn how to engage in a discourse.

felixomor:


Not so fast

This case was investigated and Esquire magazine (that you are quoting) LIED

Read.. :
http://skeptiko.com/220-esquire-proof-of-heaven-expose-debunked/

Butterflylion take note.

This guy thought he had found counter evidence
He went to quote a magazine that lied against the doctor who treated Dr Eben.

Yipee

Skeptiko.com is an interview-centered podcast covering the science of human consciousness. We cover six main categories:
– Near-death experience science and the ever growing body of peer-reviewed research surrounding it.
– Parapsychology and science that defies our current understanding of consciousness.
– Consciousness research and the ever expanding scientific understanding of who we are.
– Spirituality and the implications of new scientific discoveries to our understanding of it.
– Others and the strangeness of close encounters.
– Skepticism and what we should make of the “Skeptics”.

And it's a surprise they agree with him?

Dr Spacetacular, your presence and contributions are needed here pls.

LightandDarkness:


Skeptiko.com is an interview-centered podcast covering the science of human consciousness. We cover six main categories:
– Near-death experience science and the ever growing body of peer-reviewed research surrounding it.
– Parapsychology and science that defies our current understanding of consciousness.
– Consciousness research and the ever expanding scientific understanding of who we are.
– Spirituality and the implications of new scientific discoveries to our understanding of it.
– Others and the strangeness of close encounters.
– Skepticism and what we should make of the “Skeptics”.

And it's a surprise they agree with him?

I know u have problems reading
But just try a little
Please read where they caught the magazine telling lies about the doctor who treated dr Eben....

Shameful!

LightandDarkness:


[s]How? I demonstrated that it was not possible for him to experience and remember a NDE if his neocortex was dead, which by the way is over seventy percent of his brain. I showed that he acknowledges this and his defense is that memories are separate from the body which is not true...and more. It seems you and butterflylion are not capable of arguing science, if that's the case please let us know so in your next thread we'll keep it simple for you guys[/s]

Did you just say you "demonstrated"

LMAO

701ecilana:

The Op is not about the punishment of other Gods. Pay close attention and remain consistent, coherent and cohesive with the Op.

Stop trying to bring in what is not in the Op. You 'smart Atheists' should learn how to engage in a discourse.

U focused on punishment which is not my main point
So in what I posted, the only statement u were able to point out was punishment of other Gods
come on u better than this

felixomor:


Not so fast

This case was investigated and Esquire magazine (that you are quoting) LIED

Read.. :
http://skeptiko.com/220-esquire-proof-of-heaven-expose-debunked/

Butterflylion take note.

This guy thought he had found counter evidence
He went to quote a magazine that lied against the doctor who treated Dr Eben.

Yipee

What were the lies the magazine published against the doctor? Can you clearly outline just a few the way I did mine?

dalaman:


What were the lies the magazine published against the doctor? Can you clearly outline just a few the way I did mine?

Please read the link
Dr Potter was contacted
And she claim she was "misrepresented" by Esquire magazine on Dr Eben's case....

Clear!

felixomor:


Please read the link
Dr Potter was contacted
And she claim she was "misrepresented" by Esquire magazine on Dr Eben's case....

Clear!

What did she say specifically? Just post what she said about the misrepresentation and what it was they misrepresented.

dalaman:



What did she say specifically? Just post what she said about the misrepresentation and what it was they misrepresented.

They misrepresented her testimony on dr eben

That already means they lied.
Simple.
Read the link pls

dalaman:



What did she say specifically? Just post what she said about the misrepresentation and what it was they misrepresented.

....

felixomor:


They misrepresented her testimony on dr eben

That already means they lied.
Simple.
Read the link pls

What did they misrepresent? Just state it. Misrepresentation could mean anything. Jut state specifically what they misrepresented and how se clarified it.

felixomor:


Did the bible say anything that eats sand is cursed?
Stop flogging yourself

Is that the misrepresentation?

obinna58:


U focused on punishment which is not my main point
So in what I posted, the only statement u were able to point out was punishment of other Gods
come on u better than this

Obina, treat the Op. The Op is about NDE. Prove that it doesn't exist. Prove that there's no afterlife.

dalaman:


Is that the misrepresentation?

Sorry
That wasnt for you. My screen malfunctioned.

felixomor:


Did you just say you "demonstrated"

LMAO

It's okay. I am here whenever anyone wants to respond directly to my criticisms. Thanks

701ecilana:

Obina, treat the Op. The Op is about NDE. Prove that it doesn't exist. Prove that there's no afterlife.

There is a big difference between near death and death
Nde deals only with the mind, death deals beyond

gabe:
1. Near death experiences are a bit common and it's mechanism has been explained. please google.

2. Spontaneous remission of disease, though uncommon, occurs in people without any 'miraculous' intervention, prayer etc. A man was completely cured of HIV on a course of multivitamins in the UK. He however refused to return for follow up checks, fearing he might become a guinea pig (I no blame am sha). He made no mention of a course of 'prayer' sessions before he left the hospital. Bacterial meningitis is completely treatable by antibiotics. Between the antibiotics and his immune system, a remission, though rare and uncommon, was possible. If Eben Alexander is a neurosurgeon, he knows these basic facts. Why is he avoiding them to justify his 'miraculous' recovery theory?

I think you need to go back and study about spontaneous remission or NDE. A mans personal experience is the best way to learn. Being a neurosurgeon made him extremely sure of his testimony.

Read the link I attached in my posts.

obinna58:


There is a big difference between near death and death
Nde deals only with the mind, death deals beyond

Face the Op.

dalaman:


Dr Eben Alexander is a liar, he is a liar who was just trying to use religious faith to make some cool cash by publishing a book based on lies and fiction.

Over the course of the past 12 years, he has apparently worked at three separate hospitals, but his employment has ended without explanation at each location. Here’s a sample surrounding his departure from one of the hospitals he once worked at:

In August 2003, UMass Memorial suspended Alexander’s surgical privileges “on the basis or allegation of improper performance of surgery.” (The specifics of the case leading to the suspension are confidential, though Alexander claims it resulted from “a very complex repeat operation I did around the brain stem of a patient in which the patient had more difficulty recovering after the operation I would say than I anticipated and than I led them to believe.”) His suspension technically ended in November of that same year, but he never went back to work at UMass Memorial. He resigned. The following year he did a little freelance consulting for the Gerson Lehrman Group, a company that matches corporations with experts in various fields, and also filed an unsuccessful lawsuit against the Brigham and Women’s Hospital, claiming it improperly withheld more than $400,000 of his retirement and deferred-compensation plans. He had been more or less out of work for fifteen months when, in March 2005, he received a letter from the Massachusetts Board of Registration in Medicine asking him to respond to a complaint form they’d received from a former patient who was upset that Alexander had stopped responding to phone calls. Alexander wrote a letter back, explaining that the complaint was invalid because he was no longer practicing and that, furthermore, he would soon be leaving the state altogether.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/03/did-the-famed-neurosurgeon-who-claims-he-saw-god-and-visited-heaven-lie-article-exposes-alleged-inconsistencies/

He was actually a Dr without a job until he devised a means to sell a lie using religious faith to make cool cash. All he is doing is what you and others do all the time, which is to tell lies for Jesus. Even he himself had had to change some of his stories when confronted by other experts.



*Esquire writer accuses famed doctor and author Dr. Eben Alexander of potentially embellishing story and leaving out key details
*Investigation shows alleged disparities in Alexander’s account of the afterlife as told in his book “Proof of Heaven” and by others familiar with the story
*Key personal details about Alexander’s background were withheld from the public, Esquire alleges
*ER doctor who treated the neurosurgeon gives contradictory account of events that unfolded at the hospital during Alexander’s near-death experience

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/03/did-the-famed-neurosurgeon-who-claims-he-saw-god-and-visited-heaven-lie-article-exposes-alleged-inconsistencies/

You really need to stop this dreadful habit of calling people liars with your first words. It's a very bad and distasteful habit.

If you had read the links I posted you would not have posted this trash when the link I posted already showed your links as trash and discredited the content of your link already due to the well known dishonest nature of the writer of your link.

Read this from my link which clearly showed that the very first comments on yours reveal your level of inability to observe truthfully and accept truth when it is revealed.

And what of the other allegations insinuated or leveled at Eben Alexander? He deserves to have his side of these cases heard as well. Dr. Alexander’s 25-year neurosurgical career included over 4,000 surgeries. Luke Dittrich does not have a good track record with the truth with respect to Eben Alexander: one cannot trust Dittrich's portrayal of the facts.

The most serious of the cases Dittrich cites, that Dr. Alexander altered medical records in a case of wrong-level spine surgery, similarly distorts the truth, according to Dr. Alexander. The patient in question had excellent relief of his symptoms after Dr. Alexander's surgery, delaying Alexander’s discovery that surgery had been performed at an unintended level.

Dr. Alexander corrected the record to reflect the newly learned facts of the case, and disclosed the surgical error to all parties after follow up revealed a genuine surgical benefit. After full investigation by three state medical boards and the American Board of Neurological Surgeons, Dr. Alexander continued to practice medicine without restriction, with his board certification intact.

That is clearly written in the link I posted. Let me post it again and maybe this time you would read it and see how actual investigative journalism is done and how truth was unravelled.


http://iands.org/ndes/more-info/ndes-in-the-news/970-esquire-article-on-eben-alexander-distorts-the-facts.html

felixomor:


Not so fast

This case was investigated and Esquire magazine (that you are quoting) LIED

Read.. :
http://skeptiko.com/220-esquire-proof-of-heaven-expose-debunked/

Butterflylion take note.

This guy thought he had found counter evidence
He went to quote a magazine that lied against the doctor who treated Dr Eben.

Yipee

No mind that zombie. Na to dey shout liar liar full his head. Simply to read he wouldn't.

butterflylion:


No mind that zombie. Na to dey shout liar liar full his head. Simply to read he wouldn't.

Honestly

butterflylion:



You really need to stop this dreadful habit of calling people liars with your first words. It's a very bad and distasteful habit.

If you had read the links I posted you would not have posted this trash when the link I posted already showed your links as trash and discredited the content of your link already due to the well known dishonest nature of the writer of your link.

Read this from my link which clearly showed that the very first comments on yours reveal your level of inability to observe truthfully and accept truth when it is revealed.

And what of the other allegations insinuated or leveled at Eben Alexander? He deserves to have his side of these cases heard as well. Dr. Alexander’s 25-year neurosurgical career included over 4,000 surgeries. Luke Dittrich does not have a good track record with the truth with respect to Eben Alexander: one cannot trust Dittrich's portrayal of the facts.

The most serious of the cases Dittrich cites, that Dr. Alexander altered medical records in a case of wrong-level spine surgery, similarly distorts the truth, according to Dr. Alexander. The patient in question had excellent relief of his symptoms after Dr. Alexander's surgery, delaying Alexander’s discovery that surgery had been performed at an unintended level.

Dr. Alexander corrected the record to reflect the newly learned facts of the case, and disclosed the surgical error to all parties after follow up revealed a genuine surgical benefit. After full investigation by three state medical boards and the American Board of Neurological Surgeons, Dr. Alexander continued to practice medicine without restriction, with his board certification intact.

That is clearly written in the link I posted. Let me post it again and maybe this time you would read it and see how actual investigative journalism is done and how truth was unravelled.


http://iands.org/ndes/more-info/ndes-in-the-news/970-esquire-article-on-eben-alexander-distorts-the-facts.html

I will not stop calling people liars as long as they keep telling lies. He was an out of work doctor that decided to use his imaginary ideas and write a book that will fetch him money. Did you even bother to read the book he wrote and the nonsense ideas he espoused and wrote about? I don't even want to dwell on the claims and counter claims from his team and those against him. His book alone shows he is nuts. Just read his book.

In his book Dr Eben Alexender claimed there are is a multi universe when he visited heaven.He claimed he was shown all that in heaven. He says that there are other universes, with less "evil" than ours, and that some are more technologically advanced. He is talked about how we are one of many universes with people living in it, and that our Earth, is a unique one spiriually because it has more evil in it bla bla bla. If we are to agree with his tales then any of the other universes has people in them and anyone who had committed any sin would need a saviour. Would God also send his son through the process of being guilty for the world more than once again? Would he be able to go back to his position as a man on other planets as a physical body when his real body was up in heaven as the conquering king who had overcome sin and death, who held the keys of death and hades as the bible claims ? Dr Alexender also tosses out that evil was made so that there could be free will. What does the bible say about other universes, and the things this man mentions?

Does it line up with what is written in the bible? Not just the feelings of love and all the nice sounding stuff he wrote about, but the actual ideas presented in his account. Do you believe in the guy's(Dr. Eben Alexander) multi verse claim? Read his book and laugh. All his positions and ideas are totally unbiblical. Just some science fiction ideas you'll expect from a nerd. The man is a liar.

He is no different from people like Rebecca Brown and Robert Liardon. Lairdon claimed to have died and went to heaven but was later discovered to be a liar for Jesus.
Rebecca Brown was a doctor in the United States who claimed she was having a spiritual battle with witches in her area, she sold many books she was later found to be schizophrenic. Her medical licence got revoked because of unethical claims & practices.

Robert Liardon wrote a book ' I saw heaven' with wild ideas akin to Dr Alexender's. Today he has lost all the reverence he had because he was found to be a homosexual after many denials and lying about it.
Lesson: Any body can write any book to make wild claims. A non- peer reviewed manuscript holds no value in the modern world!

Why is it that all these christians that claim they saw haven ALWAYS give veryyyyyyy different and contradictary accounts of what they claim to have seen? They never give the same account because they are all lying and talking about their imaginary conceptions.

felixomor:


Honestly

I've asked you to point out the lie but you've failed. She wasn't even interviewed in your link. Just point out the misrepresentation.