forgiveness:



What provocative comments?

I bet, you don't know the genesis of this debate.

Now, tell me how this began then I know you you're not bias in your logical reasoning.

blueto:
He is injury free for now, and according to Goodjoe, he wouldn't want to miss the “big games”

Petrobros:


Tell forgiveness also to forget tribe, tribe, tribe and sectionalism when making his assumptions and accusations.

@forgiveness, it is unfortunate that the lens through which you view matters is this jaundiced. Does this make you a “tribalist”? I say No? Does this keep you from having a constructive argument? I think so.

If Rohr was an Igbo man, you would have accused him of tribalism. If he was a Yoruba man, tribalism wouldn’t fit the tag, hence the appropriate label will be that his selections are for pecuniary gains. Now that Rohr is not a Nigerian and it is clear that he is not here for the money, you needed to find another label to tag him.

This approach to explaining other people’s actions which are at odds with your world view will keep you from seeing the best in other people and further help you assess and reshape your own thinking. To the hammer, every problem seems like a nail. I have learnt to ignore many of your accusations, at the same time learning from you as well. One thing you fail to realize is that the human heart has reasons that reason cannot comprehend and it has nothing to do with tribalism. The yorubas will say “Differences in human preference is the reason why two brothers would not desire the same woman”. As someone who claims to throw facts around, please desist from making strong accusations without verifiable proof. And by proof, I mean things you are sure of and not hearsay

Mickael2:


Onyekuru scored more than Moses Simon this past season and this season neither of them has registered any goal but at least Onyekuru has created an assist from one if his rebound strikes, please tell me how Onyekuru is not better

joseph1013:

Here was your comment:

"The only moniker here that is pro-foreign in it's truest form is komekn..."

Pray, how does pro-foreign equal pro-england? For the purpose of education, pro-foreign encompasses players outside the shores of this country. That you are pro-england does not make you pro-foreign. But you cant be pro-foreign without being pro-england. Simple logic!

Again, counter whatever nonsense you think he spews with logic and good information. If you think him too unintelligent for you, wakapass. Some choose that route and we're the better for it on this thread.

Joebie:
Yes labelling is constant with us. I was nearly labelled as someone who only canvasses for old and "finished players".. lol.. So I guess we all have been at the receiving end.
Trying to understand why someone makes a statements first, listening to their reasons, and countering it with points is a better way to go.. The problem sometimes is people get so mad when someone has an opinion very different from theirs. we need to cool down. There will always be diverse views as long as we are living on this planet. And we can only learn when we try to understand where the person is coming from, also considering that many people are not particularly good at expressing themselves. So it calls for patience while discussing. No be fight.

tglobal:


I couldn't agree more, Joebie. I am also waiting for the accusation that will be made against the new goalkeeper trainer if Akpeyi starts the next match, considering that the "tribalism" tag can will not exactly fit

Joebie:
Chidiebere Nwakali made Whoscored's best XI in Norway last week.

Joebie:
Chidiebere Nwakali made Whoscored's best XI in Norway last week.

Lordabas:
Joel obi just scored the 3rd goal for torino. Needs to get back in the super eagles squad asap. Hes fit and on form

Afam4eva:

Norway? Chai, out footballers don suffer. How is it that a country of almost 180 million heads cannot produce a dozen players who play for elite clubs (Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Bayern Munchen, PSG, AC Milan, Inter, Juventus, ROMA). Something is definitely wrong somewhere.

Joebie:
The problem with tribalism is the same as racism. We are raised up to have these sentiments. We are not born with the sentiments. Which is why a section of the country may feel short changed in any specific sector in the country, even though evidences show that it is not entirely true. For example I am not an Igbo person, and I'm sure i've had only few people from my tribe ever play for SE, but the fact remains that Igbos have produced most of the talents in Nigeria especially in recent times. The Okochas, Nwankwo's etc did not make it to Nigeria's respective teams because of their tribe but their talent. If I am making a case for any player to be invited I don't think tribe, but when someone starts hyping a player I would start to think in my head, why the hype? You don't have to say much, let stats do the talking. The first thing that comes to my mind is to check that person's tribe because that's how we are. Stats speak. If you give me the stats, I will concede without suspicions. But for one to say this player is better than that player, what is your yardstick? These things are debatable, but don't ever shift the goal post next time when defending your tribesmen.

I've called for Adegbenro, who I believe is yoruba. I loved what I saw, and I posted the videos here. I've called for Emenike, even though I didn't like his style during his playing days. And my reason was simply we needed that energy in attack. And since we have someone like Nwakame, I don't think we have much to worry. That's got nothing to do with tribe. Besides, these are not my tribesmen. Aaron Samuel have been called upon. His past stats with SE is not bad. But at club level, he hasn't done much. So the reason, maybe his physicality again -- granted. No foul play.

I've called for our foreign-born players, because I believe we need to win the war because in future we may be lacking again, but we will have them at our disposal. Is Tammy better than Dessiers? it's too early to say. Are they better than our home based players? I can't say. But they are plying their trade at a higher stage, so they have the advantage especially as our league is whack.

Really, there is no need for the emotions, unless you have some sentiments. Discuss with your facts, and whoever can't back up their assertions, should concede. Then I don't think anyone will call others tribalistic.

John Obuh is not yoruba. But Kayode and Ajagun were among his boys. My brother there are so many examples that point to the fact that these coaches cannot ignore talent when they want to succeed. Even those saying Siasia has his boys, but how many of his players where Ijaws? Keshi wasn't tribalistic, although I didn't like some of his decisions at the time. I felt he was doing some underhand business with agents.

I agree that tribalism CAN be a factor with our indigenous coaches, but it's not a big factor in their selection, and there should be no room for those suspicions especially when we have Rohr in charge.

forgiveness:


If you claim there's no nepotism in the National team, you can ask Amokachi. He was there and confessed oh ha!

In this light, at least drew my postulations and assertions to state my comments,and besides NFF is public office, therefore not immune or exempted from public criticism.


However, it's vividly clear that chance and opportunity happens to those in the National team. It's not necessary because they are the best talent in the whole Nigeria. This is because we can see when see many players doing exceptional well in Europe despite been ignored by the National team selector.

In short, they doing better than all we raised so far.

forgiveness:


You said 4 goals and 5 assists are not good enough for a winger, then I asked you, what role or wing did Simon Moses played last season, but until now all I have received from you is perpetual silence.

Meaning, you don't know what you are fighting for or saying.

Joebie:
The real question is how is it that a country of over 180 million that are football crazy can't have a domestic league with a good standard?

Modified.
So you really think that any league besides those big names are whack?

Afam4eva:

I have not said any of those other leagues are and the issue about our domestic league is a topic for another day.

The pint remains that our football is not growing as this should reflect in our players ability to get spots in big teams in europe. Smaller countries like Cote diviore, Ghana, Cameroon and Senegal are making it big in europe. Why should ours be different?

Humility017:

common sense should teach u that rohr...know these guys better than you know them....
he has been with kayode even watch him play and train....he knows his prowess and what is at stake in these all important match....

I once talked about kayode exclusion but later come to reason....it well especially after watching nwakeme match highlights.
he is not a bad player after all.....

so relax..and let us not turn these thread to something else....because i guess u won't like it.

forgiveness:


If you claim there's no nepotism in the National team, you can ask Amokachi. He was there and confessed oh ha!

In this light, at least drew my postulations and assertions to state my comments,and besides NFF is public office, therefore not immune or exempted from public criticism.


However, it's vividly clear that chance and opportunity happens to those in the National team. It's not necessary because they are the best talent in the whole Nigeria. This is because we can see when see many players doing exceptional well in Europe despite been ignored by the National team selector.

In short, they doing better than all we raised so far.

komekn:


To make an assumption based on presumption is a recipe for continous mistakes.

You cannot assume that Rohr know them better than anybody else. Even if he has seen him in training close up,doesn't make him final authority on Kayode.

So many coaches have made big huge mistakes about players who have been close up and personal with them.

Particularly a coach that can invite a player who has essentially only played youth football recovering from injury straight to the national team over and above proven and tested players.

Cohen Bramall 7 months ago was playing non league football. Spent 3/4 weeks on trial at Sheffield Wednesday then Crewe, Crystal palace, and even lowly Keele Town. Goes to Arsenal on trial on the second day Arsene Wenger, signs him. Where the other coaches blind some who were even with UEFA A badges. I'm trying to highlight that some coaches can be blind.

Somehow he Kayode was not blind to Pep Guardiola but is blind to Rohr who has decided to bring in Aaron Samuel over Kayode. I am not able to say too much because I really don't know much about Aaron Samuel. Statistically speaking I would say Kayode is on a different level.

komekn:


To make an assumption based on presumption is a recipe for continous mistakes.

You cannot assume that Rohr know them better than anybody else. Even if he has seen him in training close up,doesn't make him final authority on Kayode.

So many coaches have made big huge mistakes about players who have been close up and personal with them.

Particularly a coach that can invite a player who has essentially only played youth football recovering from injury straight to the national team over and above proven and tested players.


Cohen Bramall 7 months ago was playing non league football. Spent 3/4 weeks on trial at Sheffield Wednesday then Crewe, Crystal palace, and even lowly Keele Town. Goes to Arsenal on trial on the second day Arsene Wenger, signs him. Where the other coaches blind some who were even with UEFA A badges. I'm trying to highlight that some coaches can be blind.

Somehow he Kayode was not blind to Pep Guardiola but is blind to Rohr who has decided to bring in Aaron Samuel over Kayode. I am not able to say too much because I really don't know much about Aaron Samuel. Statistically speaking I would say Kayode is on a different level.

tglobal:


@forgiveness, always blowing things out of proportion to support your narrative.

First of all, Amokachi's claim was that people paid cash to play. That is not nepotism.

On "chance and opportunity happening to those in the National team", there is no occupation or nation in the world where this is not the case. Even in the corporate world in the most advanced countries, opportunity will have to be seized and not necessarily by the best people. The question to ask is "are they are good enough"?. David villa has been invited back to the Spanish national team. Are there no better strikers in the whole of spain? is that also Nepotism? Mutiu Adepoju made the 2002 world cup team list. What did he do to merit that place? It suits you to always highlight the isolated negatives to justify your view point. What you end up doing is poisoning people's minds. You are doing more to stoke the fire of tribalism than those you are accusing

tglobal:
To everyone else, please get off your high horses and stop pretending that the same syndrome doesn’t afflict you. We are witnesses of how others have accused fellow forumites of what they are not simply because they disagree. Examples of this abound and include the following

1. Criticize KC – Tag him a Kelechi hater (if they are not igbo, use the tribalist tag)
2. Criticize Awoniyi, Success and Manu crew – You hate Nigeria
3. Criticize the local league – You hate the local league
4. Measure Nigerian player using global standards – You are not patriotic
5. Pep doesn’t start KC and other black players - Pep is a racist

There is beauty in diversity of thought and opinion and we should celebrate that. I cringed the other day when komekn was accused of being unpatriotic simply because he rates Nigerian players like any non-Nigerian would. Same way politicians in power label the opposition

Mickael2:


he was the attacking midfielder, which makes it worse. at least for a winger playing in a 4-5-1 you can argue that he stays too far away from the goal to actually score goals like Samuel Kalu, but this is an AMF with only 5 assists all season long. Even Iwobi, Aluko etc etc made more impact than he did, so your point is?

tglobal:


@Petrobas, you seem so fixated in labeling me a defender of forgiveness that you completely missed the post below where I called him out.

tbaba1234:
Joel Obi with a man of the match performance.