*A Great Danger*

Sh. Ṣāliḥ al-Fawzān Hafiẓahullāh mentioned the story of a man who read Bukhārī on his own and he came across the Ḥhadeeth:

ﺍﻟﺤﺒﺔ ﺍﻟﺴﻮﺩﺍﺀ ﺷﻔﺎﺀ ﻣﻦ ﻛﻞ ﺩﺍﺀ

'Blackseed has cure for every illness.'

However he read ﺍﻟﺤﺒﺔ ﺍﻟﺴﻮﺩﺍﺀ (blackseed) as ﺍﻟﺤﻴﺔ ﺍﻟﺴﻮﺩﺍﺀ (black snake), thus he went, bought a black snake, slaughtered it, ate it and afterwards died from its poisoning, so had he asked the scholars he would've saved himself,
So merely studying without returning to Ahlul-'Ilm (for its understanding) is a great danger so look to how many pretenders of knowledge have killed themselves (due to self-amazement).

● [Taken from the Shaykh's book: ﻃﺮﻕ ﺗﻌﻠﻢ ﺍﻟﻌﻠﻢ ]
Translated (Paraphrased) By: Sameeullaah Sameeullaah (Aboo Maryamm)

Newnas' note: Ibnul Jawziyy mentioned a similar story in his book أخبار الحمقاى و المغفلين (Stories of dumb and featherbrained people)

1. Can you please quote that hadith and its number that said blackseed cure all ilness?. . 2. Anybody who read and misunderstood quran or hadith, HAS ABSOLUTELY NO SIN... But when such person is given proof from quran and hadith, and he\she refuses even after the case is clear, THEN THE PERSON IS A KAFIR..

To return to salafs for explanation is very crucial as long as what they say have proof in quran and hadith. . .SALAFS SAID BIDA IS DIVIDED, SOME SALAF SAID ITS NOT DIVIDED, SALAFS SAID KHAWARIJ ARE NOT KAFIR, SOME OTHER SAID THEY ARE KAFIR, SALAFS SAID USING HIJAB IS NOT WAJIB- SOME OTHER SAID ITS WAJIB, SALAFS SAID U CAN LEAVE FACE,EYES AND HANDS OPEN IN HIJAB, AND OTHER SALAF SAID U CANT. . SALAFS M0STLY DO NOT AGREE ON MATTERS. . . . . REAL SALAFS(sahabahs) even do act or say things different fr0m quran and hadith. . its simply misunderstandinq and mistake. . . . .TO KNOW IS EASY, JUST CHECK QURAN AND HADITH. . WHAT MAKES IT SWEETER IS THAT ITS SAHABAH OR SALAF THAT WILL CORRECT EACHOTHER. . TO KN0W IS TO WATCHOUT FOR THE PROOF THEY WILL BRING. . . . .GDGGPdpdr

AbuUthaymeen:
To return to salafs for explanation is very crucial as long as what they say have proof in quran and hadith. . .SALAFS SAID BIDA IS DIVIDED, SOME SALAF SAID ITS NOT DIVIDED, SALAFS SAID KHAWARIJ ARE NOT KAFIR, SOME OTHER SAID THEY ARE KAFIR, SALAFS SAID USING HIJAB IS NOT WAJIB- SOME OTHER SAID ITS WAJIB, SALAFS SAID U CAN LEAVE FACE,EYES AND HANDS OPEN IN HIJAB, AND OTHER SALAF SAID U CANT. . SALAFS M0STLY DO NOT AGREE ON MATTERS. . . . . REAL SALAFS(sahabahs) even do act or say things different fr0m quran and hadith. . its simply misunderstandinq and mistake. . . . .TO KNOW IS EASY, JUST CHECK QURAN AND HADITH. . WHAT MAKES IT SWEETER IS THAT ITS SAHABAH OR SALAF THAT WILL CORRECT EACHOTHER. . TO KN0W IS TO WATCHOUT FOR THE PROOF THEY WILL BRING. . . . .GDGGPdpdr

@bolded, you are a big LIAR

AbuUthaymeen:
1. Can you please quote that hadith and its number that said blackseed cure all ilness?. . 2. Anybody who read and misunderstood quran or hadith, HAS ABSOLUTELY NO SIN... But when such person is given proof from quran and hadith, and he\she refuses even after the case is clear, THEN THE PERSON IS A KAFIR..

Go to Madrasah, they will teach you.

O, sorry, all the Madrasah are kafir except jabtawiyyah!

You will die as ignoramus if you don't leave takfeeri ideology

I STAND TO BE CORRECTED IN ANYTHING AND SO IS MY ALFA JABATA, ABU IBEJI AND OTHERS. . . . IF YOU WANT TO CORRECT US, QUOTE WHAT SCHOLAR SAYS AND POINT OUT THE PROOFS THE SCHOLAR BRING. . . THATS JUST IT. . CONCERNING BIDA, USING SP0ON AND OTHER ISSUES,. . QUOTE WHAT SCHOLAR SAY ON THOSE MASAIIL. . simple as that. . .tNJ

AbuUthaymeen:
I STAND TO BE CORRECTED IN ANYTHING AND SO IS MY ALFA JABATA, ABU IBEJI AND OTHERS. . . . IF YOU WANT TO CORRECT US, QUOTE WHAT SCHOLAR SAYS AND POINT OUT THE PROOFS THE SCHOLAR BRING. . . THATS JUST IT. . CONCERNING BIDA, USING SP0ON AND OTHER ISSUES,. . QUOTE WHAT SCHOLAR SAY ON THOSE MASAIIL. . simple as that. . .tNJ

I've quoted what scholars said several times but because you are OPONU you will keep asking.

The fact is you understand nothing except jabtawiyyah ideology

Newnas:

@bolded, you are a big LIAR

THEN PROOF ME WRONG

Newnas:

@bolded, you are a big LIAR

THEN PROOF ME WRONG

Newnas:



I've quoted what scholars said several times but because you are OPONU you will keep asking.

The fact is you understand nothing except jabtawiyyah ideology

I SWEAR BY THE LORD OF KHABAH. YOU HAVE NEVER QUOTED SCHOLAR OR ANY PROOF FROM QURAN OR HADITH TO PROOF ME WR0NG. . 2. MADRASAH WILL TEACH ME WHAT? 3. WHICH MADRASAH HAVE I MAKE TAKFIR OF? 4. AND I DO NOT HAVE TAKFEER IDEOLOGY. . . and who did i kal a kafir that is not a kafir??#

Newnas:



I've quoted what scholars said several times but because you are OPONU you will keep asking.

The fact is you understand nothing except jabtawiyyah ideology

I SWEAR BY THE LORD OF KHABAH. YOU HAVE NEVER QUOTED SCHOLAR OR ANY PROOF FROM QURAN OR HADITH TO PROOF ME WR0NG. . 2. MADRASAH WILL TEACH ME WHAT? 3. WHICH MADRASAH HAVE I MAKE TAKFIR OF? 4. AND I DO NOT HAVE TAKFEER IDEOLOGY. . . and who did i kal a kafir that is not a kafir??#. . . .AND AS FROM NOW, DO NOT EVER JUST USE ORDINARY ACCUSATIONS ON ME OR JABATA. . say what we do say that is wrong, then quote scholar or hadith to prove us wrong. . . .if u cant do that, just shut up

Newnas:



I've quoted what scholars said several times but because you are OPONU you will keep asking.

The fact is you understand nothing except jabtawiyyah ideology

I SWEAR BY THE LORD OF KHABAH. YOU HAVE NEVER QUOTED SCHOLAR OR ANY PROOF FROM QURAN OR HADITH TO PROOF ME WR0NG. . 2. MADRASAH WILL TEACH ME WHAT? 3. WHICH MADRASAH HAVE I MAKE TAKFIR OF? 4. AND I DO NOT HAVE TAKFEER IDEOLOGY. . . and who did i kal a kafir that is not a kafir??#. . . .AND AS FROM NOW, DO NOT EVER JUST USE ORDINARY ACCUSATIONS ON ME OR JABATA. . say what we do say that is wrong, then quote scholar or hadith to prove us wrong. . . .if u cant do that, just shut up. .

Newnas:



I've quoted what scholars said several times but because you are OPONU you will keep asking.

The fact is you understand nothing except jabtawiyyah ideology

I SWEAR BY THE LORD OF KHABAH. YOU HAVE NEVER QUOTED SCHOLAR OR ANY PROOF FROM QURAN OR HADITH TO PROOF ME WR0NG. . 2. MADRASAH WILL TEACH ME WHAT? 3. WHICH MADRASAH HAVE I MAKE TAKFIR OF? 4. AND I DO NOT HAVE TAKFEER IDEOLOGY. . . and who did i kal a kafir that is not a kafir??#. . . .AND AS FROM NOW, DO NOT EVER JUST USE ORDINARY ACCUSATIONS ON ME OR JABATA. . say what we do say that is wrong, then quote scholar or hadith to prove us wrong. . . .if u cant do that, just shut up. . .JMP

AbuUthaymeen:
THEN PROOF ME WRONG

No, the onus lies on you to bring reference for your claim if nut just shut up!

AbuUthaymeen:
I SWEAR BY THE LORD OF KHABAH. YOU HAVE NEVER QUOTED SCHOLAR OR ANY PROOF FROM QURAN OR HADITH TO PROOF ME WR0NG. . 2. MADRASAH WILL TEACH ME WHAT? 3. WHICH MADRASAH HAVE I MAKE TAKFIR OF? 4. AND I DO NOT HAVE TAKFEER IDEOLOGY. . . and who did i kal a kafir that is not a kafir??#. . . .AND AS FROM NOW, DO NOT EVER JUST USE ORDINARY ACCUSATIONS ON ME OR JABATA. . say what we do say that is wrong, then quote scholar or hadith to prove us wrong. . . .if u cant do that, just shut up. . .JMP

Please read this link

https://www.nairaland.com/3925812/retort-takfeeri-ilorin

I can see you have a gold fish memory.

AbuUthaymeen:
To return to salafs for explanation is very crucial as long as what they say have proof in quran and hadith. . .SALAFS SAID BIDA IS DIVIDED, SOME SALAF SAID ITS NOT DIVIDED, SALAFS SAID KHAWARIJ ARE NOT KAFIR, SOME OTHER SAID THEY ARE KAFIR, SALAFS SAID USING HIJAB IS NOT WAJIB- SOME OTHER SAID ITS WAJIB, SALAFS SAID U CAN LEAVE FACE,EYES AND HANDS OPEN IN HIJAB, AND OTHER SALAF SAID U CANT. . SALAFS M0STLY DO NOT AGREE ON MATTERS. . . . . REAL SALAFS(sahabahs) even do act or say things different fr0m quran and hadith. . its simply misunderstandinq and mistake. . . . .TO KNOW IS EASY, JUST CHECK QURAN AND HADITH. . WHAT MAKES IT SWEETER IS THAT ITS SAHABAH OR SALAF THAT WILL CORRECT EACHOTHER. . TO KN0W IS TO WATCHOUT FOR THE PROOF THEY WILL BRING. . . . .GDGGPdpdr

Newnas:


@bolded, you are a big LIAR

does that mean there is bid'at hassanat as well?

Empiree:
does that mean there is bid'at hassanat as well?

Nah

AbuUthaymeen:
Nah

nah
Well, I rather wait for him to answer that

Empiree:
does that mean there is bid'at hassanat as well?

No, it does't

There's no consensus on it.

When there's difference of opinion we look at the evidence of each party. But when there is consensus whatever any person says after it is outright error! and interpolation.

Newnas:


No, it does't

Very well then. Quran competetion (مسابقة القرآن الكريم) is technically bid'a and it goes against a very clear hadith which says about giving prices for certain events


Abu Dawood (2574), at-Tirmidhi (1700) and Ibn Maajah (2878) narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “There should be no prizes except in archery, camel-racing or horse-racing.”


but مسابقة القرآن الكريم is not mentioned in the hadith. Yet we accept مسابقة القرآن الكريم as good deed today internationally. Is this bid'a?. Yes. Is it bid'a hassanah?. Yes


Also, congregational tarawee was not commanded by nabi(saw). The sahaba simply joined him for 3 days before he stopped it. However, S.Umar(ra) ordered congregational tarawee for proper coordination. He tagged it bid'a hassana. He did not "revive" this congregational sunnah. The only way you can successfully refute this is by briing up evidence that nabi ordered sahaba to form congregation behind him in tarawee

Empiree:
Very well then. Quran competetion (مسابقة القرآن الكريم) is technically bid'a and it goes against a very clear hadith which says about giving prices for certain events


Abu Dawood (2574), at-Tirmidhi (1700) and Ibn Maajah (2878) narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “There should be no prizes except in archery, camel-racing or horse-racing.”


but مسابقة القرآن الكريم is not mentioned in the hadith. Yet we accept مسابقة القرآن الكريم as good deed today internationally. Is this bid'a?. Yes. Is it bid'a hassanah?. Yes

Empire.eee you and these your flimsy doubts.

Actually musaabaqatul Quran is included in the hadith as explained by ibnul Qoyyim in Al-furoosiyyah.

Looking at those three we see that they are means of jihad therefore anything that strengthens and encourages the Muslims in preparation also takes the same ruling with those three eg car race, quiz in engineering, software programming, physics, chemistry etc if they are done to encourage and strengthen the. uslims for jihad.

If that is clear, let's go to musaabaqatul Quran. What is the essence of Jihad? isn't it to remove any obstacles in the course of spreading Islam?

Therefore the aim of Jihad is to aid in spreading Islam, so also is Learning Quran, Sunnah and other ISLAMIC sciences. Rather, knowledge is a greater means of spreading Islam than jihad. Seeking and teaching knowledge is the greater. So it has more right to be competed in. This analogy I've done is called Qiyaasul Awlaa.

The messenger alyhissolaat was salaam only mentioned those as examples in the hadith.

may Allah grant us Taofeeq.

Also, congregational tarawee was not commanded by nabi(saw). The sahaba simply joined him for 3 days before he stopped it. However, S.Umar(ra) ordered congregational tarawee for proper coordination. He tagged it bid'a hassana. He did not "revive" this congregational sunnah. The only way you can successfully refute this is by briing up evidence that nabi ordered sahaba to form congregation behind him in tarawee

Another flimsy claim.

No No no. He -alyhissolaat was salaam- stated the reason why he didn't want to continue congregational tarawee and that is the fear that will be made obligatory and he -alyhissolaat wassalaam- feared that we won't be able to bear the burden.

However, after his demise -alyhissolaat wassalaam- there is no new legislation because Islam has been completed so the companions -ridwaanuLLaahi alyhim- continued it because he -alyhissolaat wassalaam- wanted it to be so but had fears.
And those fears are no more.

As the principle says:الحكم يدور مع علته وجودا وعدما

Rulings move with their cause in presence and absence.

ie if the cause is present then the ruling is present but if it is absent the ruling is absent.

In summary these are not innovations, rather they are under the texts of the Quran and sunnah.

Newnas:

Empire.eee you and these your flimsy doubts.

Actually musaabaqatul Quran is included in the hadith as explained by ibnul Qoyyim in Al-furoosiyyah.

Looking at those three we see that they are means of jihad therefore anything that strengthens and encourages the Muslims in preparation also takes the same ruling with those three eg car race, quiz in engineering, software programming, physics, chemistry etc if they are done to encourage and strengthen the. uslims for jihad.

If that is clear, let's go to musaabaqatul Quran. What is the essence of Jihad? isn't it to remove any obstacles in the course of spreading Islam?

Therefore the aim of Jihad is to aid in spreading Islam, so also is Learning Quran, Sunnah and other ISLAMIC sciences. Rather, knowledge is a greater means of spreading Islam than jihad. Seeking and teaching knowledge is the greater. So it has more right to be competed in. This analogy I've done is called Qiyaasul Awlaa.

The messenger alyhissolaat was salaam only mentioned those as examples in the hadith.

may Allah grant us Taofeeq.

See how you ended up with same logical reason used by others?. If you think I am against Quran competetion you must be dreaming. I simply used your logic of condemning others against you and you ended up like them. For instance, those who celebrate Mawlud have argued the same thing you just did. They said one of the many benefits of it is that it helps the poor.

In the sense that they cook, money is donated to development of the masjid, gifts for kids etc. They also recite Quran, narrate seerat, send salawat on the prophet (SAW). But you people insist that regardless of any good deeds done in it, mawlud is still bida'h. IslamQA website doesn't even say what you posted. Their only argument for Quran competition is that it is a good deed without providing dalil.

Another flimsy claim.

No No no. He -alyhissolaat was salaam- stated the reason why he didn't want to continue congregational tarawee and that is the fear that will be made obligatory and he -alyhissolaat wassalaam- feared that we won't be able to bear the burden.

However, after his demise -alyhissolaat wassalaam- there is no new legislation because Islam has been completed so the companions -ridwaanuLLaahi alyhim- continued it because he -alyhissolaat wassalaam- wanted it to be so but had fears.
And those fears are no more.

As the principle says:الحكم يدور مع علته وجودا وعدما

Rulings move with their cause in presence and absence.

ie if the cause is present then the ruling is present but if it is absent the ruling is absent.

In summary these are not innovations, rather they are under the texts of the Quran and sunnah.

here we go again. You still ended up using same logic. For instance, group dhikr, group dua that you guys considered innovation, do they not fall under the same text of the Quran and sunnah?. What you said about ruling is not the problem. What you said that nabi [saw] not wanting burden for us is understandable. That's not the issue either. The issue is he (saw) did not call for congregational tarawee unlike obligatory salat. If you think I have problems with congregational tarawee you must be dreaming.

# @ Empiree, that was quite an exposition on that weak brain Newnas. The point is they (salafiyun) modify and remodify the definition of Bid'ah to suit their whimsy ideology and practice.

# Till now, they've never been consistent on the definition of "Bid'ah" in respect to Sunnah. What is Sunnah? How do Salafiyun defines it?


Imam al-Shawkani, in his Irshad al-Fuḥul, vol. 1, p. 131, tells us the technical meaning of the word “sunnah”:

http://library.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?
idfrom=33&idto=33&bk_no=100&ID=41


"Its meaning in the Shari'ah – that is, in the technical
usage of the scholars of the Shari'a – is: the statements
of the Prophet, peace be upon him and his family, and his
actions and his affirmations."

In simpler words, a sunnah is something (i) which the
Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and his household) explicitly commanded or recommended, or (ii) which he did, or (iii) which he affirmed.

* This is agreed upon by all the salafist. They will even go further quoting the below Hadith:

Imam Muslim records in his Sahih, vol. 3, p. 1343, # 1718
(18):

http://islamport.com/d/1/mtn/1/78/2901.html

Narrated ‘Aisha:

"The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said:
“Whosoever does any deed which we have not commanded, will have it rejected (by Allah).”

# So, the case is well established. It's either something is Bid'ah or its not Bid'ah.


2. To that fraudulent Newnas, Nabi did not give any excuse for establishing Umaric 29 or 30 days after Ishai Congregational Tarawih. Even your so-called best of the Ummah, Abubakr did not practice it. Nabi was explicit enough in his statement when he told the sahabah:

" I have seen and understood what you did. You should pray IN YOUR HOUSES, FOR THE BEST PRAYER OF A PERSON is that which he prays in his house except the compulsory prayers."
http://sunnah.com/bukhari/10/125

# This is a timeless statement that can never be change at anytime or any circumstances. Besides, whoever prayed 29 or 30 after Ishai Congregational tarawih has obviously contradict the Salafiyyah definition of "Sunnah".

Unfortunately, the statement of Nabi can never be enough and must be twisted in the sense of a Nasibi like you (Newnas).

^^^
@ Empiree

Now to the main issue, Is Quranic recitation (competition) Bid'ah or Sunnah?

# First, while I did not 100% agree with the salafiyyah's definition of Sunnah and Bid'ah, there is absolutely NO riwayat that can explicitly tell us whether Quranic competition is Sunnah or Bid'ah; therefore this is not a matter of reward or punishment before Allah.

# Second, few ahadith are clear which we can extrapolate to prove there is absolutely nothing wrong in Quranic competitions.

1. Sahabah knew the best Qur'anic reciter(s) among themselves. This Hadith is in sahih Bukhari and Muslim. Obviously, they must have assess and COMPETE the capacity of various reciters amongst themselves.

2. Nabi used to ask various Qari to recite Qur'an in his presence. No one can claim this is done alone (i.e just between Nabi and a said Qari). Even if all the sahabah were not there, the ever present few sahabah whose ONLY house was the roof of Prophet's mosque would be there.

3. And there is a "BIGGEST" price for the best reciter. Nabi explicitly declared that "the best reciter among you should lead the Salat".


# Today's Qur'anic competition is no more than those 3 highlights. Various Qari compete among themselves INFRONT of judges, and IN THE PRESENCE of believers, and at the end the best is declare and PRICE is being awarded. So, what's the fuss.

* Anyway, that is my own opinion and understanding.

@least you brought evidence. They didnt. I never considered the Quran competition bidah. I only used their tool against them for condemning mawlud and walimot.

Myself participated in Quranic competition, walimo and Mawlid in 1993 and 1996. These guys condemned Walimot but praised Quranic competition. So I was wondering what makes the former sunnah, the later bidah. Walimot was performed during S. Umar's regime. He slaughtered cow or sheep after recitation of Quran. So now they can reason where I am driving at

Empiree:
I only used their tool against them for condemning mawlud and walimot.

# Yeah.

Surah Al-Anaam, Verse 160:

Whoever brings a good deed, he shall have ten like it, and whoever brings an evil deed, he shall be recompensed only with the like of it, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly.

cc: Empiree

Newnas:
*A Great Danger*

Sh. Ṣāliḥ al-Fawzān Hafiẓahullāh mentioned the story of a man who read Bukhārī on his own and he came across the Ḥhadeeth:

ﺍﻟﺤﺒﺔ ﺍﻟﺴﻮﺩﺍﺀ ﺷﻔﺎﺀ ﻣﻦ ﻛﻞ ﺩﺍﺀ

'Blackseed has cure for every illness.'

However he read ﺍﻟﺤﺒﺔ ﺍﻟﺴﻮﺩﺍﺀ (blackseed) as ﺍﻟﺤﻴﺔ ﺍﻟﺴﻮﺩﺍﺀ (black snake), thus he went, bought a black snake, slaughtered it, ate it and afterwards died from its poisoning, so had he asked the scholars he would've saved himself,
So merely studying without returning to Ahlul-'Ilm (for its understanding) is a great danger so look to how many pretenders of knowledge have killed themselves (due to self-amazement).

● [Taken from the Shaykh's book: ﻃﺮﻕ ﺗﻌﻠﻢ ﺍﻟﻌﻠﻢ ]
Translated (Paraphrased) By: Sameeullaah Sameeullaah (Aboo Maryamm)

Newnas' note: Ibnul Jawziyy mentioned a similar story in his book أخبار الحمقاى و المغفلين (Stories of dumb and featherbrained people)

This is a very funny post since sahih Bukhari is not rocket science, even my 9yrs old brother could read and understand it perfectly .
And two, it's contradictory with the salafi belief that the 'Quran is enough for us' and no special person or thing is required to interpret it. If the great sahih cannot be 'read on one's own ' Then why should we read the book of Allah by ourselves without guidance from God's chosen people I. e Ahlul bayt A. s

zein313:



This is a very funny post since sahih Bukhari is not rocket science, even my 9yrs old brother could read and understand it perfectly .
And two, it's contradictory with the salafi belief that the 'Quran is enough for us' and no special person or thing is required to interpret it. If the great sahih cannot be 'read on one's own ' Then why should we read the book of Allah by ourselves without guidance from God's chosen people I. e Ahlul bayt A. s

@bolded that's your fabrication!