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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church (65156 Views)
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Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by thorpido(m): 9:00am On Oct 23, 2017 |
freshboi88:She is alive unto God.They who dwell in Heaven are alive. Mary shed her physical body here and that is where her role as the woman that gave birth to Jesus ended.Quit sentiments. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by analice107: 9:01am On Oct 23, 2017 |
12345baba:You'd have to show one single statue of any man of God and show a picture of them being bowed down to. You have no idea what adulation means. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by thorpido(m): 9:03am On Oct 23, 2017 |
Proffdada:The Father was on the throne. The term 'right hand' is figurative.It's like saying my right hand man.There is no throne on the right side.See what Jesus said in Revelations 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. See where Jesus sits? In the Father's throne. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by Proffdada: 9:05am On Oct 23, 2017 |
PastorAIO:which i did but you couldn't grasp. Adam brought sin (and thus death romans 6:23) to mankind. Jesus ended it. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by Joemetry(m): 9:05am On Oct 23, 2017 |
Mathew 16:18 Peter AND I SAY TO YOU THAT YOU ARE PETER, AND ON THIS ROCK I SHALL BUILD MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HADES SHALL NOT PREVAIL IT. have you ever wondered who that Church is, how it started, who Peter is, where he was buried, if a Church was actually built on Peter, why that church is still alive, why that church grows regardless your criticism, why that church will never be killed by you? No you you don't... QUESTION: WHY DO CATHOLICS MAKE USE OF IMAGES WHEN GOD COMMANDED IN EXODUS CHAPTER 20 NOT TO MAKE IMAGES?” RESPONSE: Over and over again, many non-Catholics keep criticizing our use of images in the Catholic Church. They see it as a major problem with us (Catholics) and as such, they often refer us to the book of Exodus chapter 20; consequently condemning or charging us with idolatry. Personally, I see this as an act of ignorance; if only they (i.e those who accuse the Catholic Church of idolatry), had read the bible properly, they would have understood better and stop their criticisms. Now let us examine their claims… PROTESTANTS’ CLAIMS The non Catholics often refer us to the Commandments; which according to the first commandment, God said: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them (Ex. 20:2–5). OUR RESPONSE: God does not prohibit statues or images; he prohibits the adoration of them. If God truly meant that we were not to possess any statues at all, then he would later contradict himself. Just five chapters after this commandment in Exodus 20, God commanded Moses to build the ARK of the Covenant, which would contain the presence of God and was to be venerated as the holiest place in all of Israel. Here is what God commanded Moses concerning the statues on it: “AND YOU SHALL MAKE TWO CHERUBIM OF GOLD; OF HAMMERED WORK SHALL YOU MAKE THEM, ON THE TWO ENDS OF THE MERCY SEAT. MAKE ONE CHERUB ON THE ONE END, AND ONE CHERUB ON THE OTHER END; OF ONE PIECE WITH THE MERCY SEAT SHALL YOU MAKE THE CHERUBIM ON ITS TWO ENDS.” (Ex. 25:18–19). In Numbers 21:8–9, not only did our Lord order Moses to make another statue in the form of a bronze serpent, he commanded the children of Israel to look to it in order to be healed. The context of the passage is one where Israel had rebelled against God, and a plague of deadly snakes was sent as a just punishment. This statue of a snake had no power of itself—we know from John 3:14 it was merely a type of Christ—but God used this image of a snake as an instrument to effect healing in his people. Further, in 1 Kings 6, Solomon built a temple for the glory of God, described as follows: “In the inner sanctuary he made two cherubim of olivewood, each ten cubits high. . . . He put the IMAGE of the cherubim in the innermost part of the house. . . . He carved all the walls of the house roundabout with carved figures of cherubim and palm trees, and open flowers, in the inner and outer rooms. . . . For the entrance to the inner sanctuary he made doors of olivewood. . . . He covered the two doors of olivewood with carvings of cherubim, palm trees, and open flowers; he overlaid them with gold (1 Kgs. 6:23, 27, 29, 31, 32). King Solomon ordered the construction of multiple images of things both “in heaven above” (angels) and “in the earth beneath” (palm trees and open flowers). And then, after the completion of the temple, GOD DECLARED HE WAS PLEASED WITH ITS CONSTRUCTION (1 KGS. 9:3). Now for those who criticize the catholic Church; didn’t God know what King Solomon had done? It becomes apparent, given the above evidence, that a strictly literal interpretation of Exodus 20:2–5 is erroneous. Otherwise, we would have to conclude that God prohibits something in Exodus 20 and he commands the same thing elsewhere. Why would God use these images of serpents, angels, palm trees, and open flowers? Why didn’t he heal the people directly rather than use a “graven image”? Why didn’t he command Moses and Solomon to build an ark and a temple void of any images at all? I hope the fact is becoming clear now… ANOTHER OBJECTION BY PROTESTANTS Many Protestants will claim that, while Catholics may say they do not adore statues, their actions prove otherwise… Catholics kiss statues, bow down before them, and pray in front of them. According to the protestants, that represents the adoration that is due God alone. OUR RESPONSE: The problem was not with the bowing; it was with the adoration. Bowing does not necessarily entail adoration. For example, Jacob bowed to the ground on his knees seven times to his elder brother Esau (Gen. 33:3), Bathsheba bowed to her husband David (1 Kgs. 1:16), and Solomon bowed to his mother Bathsheba (1 Kgs. 2:19). In fact, in Revelation 3:9, John records the words of Jesus: “Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and learn that I have loved you.” This simply indicates that there are different categories of “bow” or “worship” as clearly seen in the examples above. We have the LATRIA which is the adoration due to God alone; this is clearly different from the relational worship or we give to ourselves to indicate respect. This is very clear with the Yoruba culture of Nigeria, where a child prostrates or lies down to greet an elder. This does not mean that he is rendering the elder a Latria worship or guilty of idolatry, however, it is just a relational worship which indicates respect. HENCE, WE MUST KNOW THAT THE IDEA OF “WORSHIP” IS VERY BROAD AND ITS USAGE MUST FLOW WITH THE PROPER SENTIMENT WHICH INDICATES WHAT IT REALLY MEANS. My humble recommendation remains that the Catholic Church does not believe any statue or image has any power in and of itself. The beauty of statues and icons move us to the contemplation of the Word of God as he is himself or as he works in his saints. And, according to the Scripture, as well as the testimony of the centuries, God even uses them at times to impart blessings (e.g., healings) according to his providential plan. CONCLUSION I suppose the message we should send to those outside of the Catholic Church who don’t get why we bow down before, kiss, put flowers in front of, etc. statues and icons, is that we Catholics take very seriously the biblical injunctions to praise and honor great members of God’s family. Besides, it is however, surprising that the critics of the Catholic Church take photographs, hang it at home and often times kiss them. Hence, following the command not to make any image at all, 99% of them equally guilty of idolatry, if we are to take that portion of the Scripture so literarily. For us, having statues or images is just as natural as—you guessed it—having your pictures or those of your loves ones, especially those that have departed from us. Most times we keep these images or pictures of our relations in our wallets or at homes or even in our electronic devices, which remind us of the ones we love here on earth. Hence, our use of images in the Church which reminds us of the heavenly beings is a far cry from idolatry. By Chinaka Mbaeri 2 Likes |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by freshboi88: 9:05am On Oct 23, 2017 |
thorpido: This is ur own interpretation....pls show me were this nonsense u r saying is in scripture |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by ema2017: 9:06am On Oct 23, 2017 |
In my opinion there is nothing really wrong with catholic church. The bone of contention were people feel that catholic practice is not scriptural is the praying to God through mary, Mary is the earthly mother of Jesus and Jesus has never during his earthly ministry refer that we should pray through his mother mary. Secondly it is idolatory to pray to a statue. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by PaddyX: 9:07am On Oct 23, 2017 |
HungerBAD: |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by femi4: 9:07am On Oct 23, 2017 |
tete7000:There were denominations, but the doctrine were the same For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human? What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by Nosikebit(m): 9:09am On Oct 23, 2017 |
Proffdada:where was the protestants when a christian country like turkey was fully islamized, where were the protestants when jerusalem , the birthplace of jesus was being islamized, where were the protestants when catholics fought off the muslims from spain. You think its what the fake prophets of the protestants are doing now?? |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by INDUSTRIALFAN(m): 9:13am On Oct 23, 2017 |
Kenerd:you re wrong on the missal. No book in d bible was removed. The missal is actually the exact scriptures from the bible arranged in a way that from 1st January to 31st December, you will have read every word in the bible. Every word and letter from genesis to revelations is in the missal. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by Nosikebit(m): 9:14am On Oct 23, 2017 |
Proffdada:why the God instruct the then king of israel to kill women and children .. ask God why |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by PastorAIO: 9:16am On Oct 23, 2017 |
Proffdada: We were talking about Mary. And the sin offering that she made on giving birth to jesus. I query why the act of giving birth should be a sin and you say it is because of Adam. ![]() The whole issue of the sin offering came up because 'you' argue that Mary sinned therefore needed to make sinboffering. Yet jesus was baptised. What sin was jesus repenting from when he asked John to bsptose him. Could Mary not have made the sin offering to fulfil all righteousness? |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by Nosikebit(m): 9:18am On Oct 23, 2017 |
Proffdada:did david kill?? Yes he did .. did moses kill?? Yes he did .. did solomon kill?? Yes he did .. the old kings of israelites killed more than the catholics .. did God bless and loved them?? Yes he did |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by PaddyX: 9:19am On Oct 23, 2017 |
Proffdada: Jesus is God the son. Jesus never referred to God the Father as God but rather as 'the Father' John 14 vs 9-11 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? John 1 vs 1 says In the beginning was the word and he word was with God, and I he word WAS God vs 14 says the word became a human being and lived with us and the post you quoted tells us how the Holy Spirit speaking through Elizabeth called Jesus "my Lord" |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by tete7000(m): 9:19am On Oct 23, 2017 |
femi4: Wonderful thing about the scripture is that it can be interpreted to suit our fancy. Tomorrow you will ask me to show you where Easter and Christmas are in the Bible. What is a denomination? Who told you one universal church to which Paul and Apollo belong are denominations? Where do you get that idea of Christian denomination in the Bible when Christ prayed that his followers be one like him and his father are one? Do you know doctrinal beliefs are what set denominations apart? Are you insinuating Paul and Apollo preached different doctrines? If that is your case, how does one plant and the other waters? Does that not indicate that Paul simply planted a church, while Apollo watered the same Church? Please explain to me why you think that verse referred to denominations. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by EmpressT(f): 9:19am On Oct 23, 2017 |
That talks about the ark of God. What does this has to do with what I posted? It is you gan that need your eyes to be open ode. freshboi88: |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by TheArchangel(f): 9:30am On Oct 23, 2017 |
Proffdada:burnt offerings, what the hell ![]() |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by Proffdada: 9:36am On Oct 23, 2017 |
PaddyX: ![]() ![]() |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by Beey(f): 9:49am On Oct 23, 2017 |
dingbang:The commandment of love.Love for God first & then your neighbor. when you love God, you'll not want to to anything that goes against His will & you can't worship idolds..So is it with your neighbor, if you love them, all these other commandments of do not commit adultery,do not covet etc all those are relational on how you should relate with your neighbor.So if you love your neighbor, you will not want to hurt them. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by analice107: 9:52am On Oct 23, 2017 |
Neminc:Should i clap for you or give you a hug? 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by femi4: 9:59am On Oct 23, 2017 |
tete7000:Paul planted, but Apollo watered It was specifically mentioned that there assignments were different but the doctrine remain the same. An evagenlist and a Pastor cannot Pastor a Church same way but the "sound doctrine" must be the same. That was what Paul was emphasizing, that even though I and Apollo have different assignment, the doctrine remain the same. I cannot be doing "In Jesus name" in my Church, only to get to your Church and you are "honoring Mary" and couldn't find it in my Bible or where Jesus instruct us to do that. I ll have to question such doctrine Mary wasn't even a prophet, Is she greater than Abraham, David, Elijah or John the Baptist? Why not honor Jesse/David as well, after all Jesus was called "Son of David" and Root of Jesse |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by dingbang(m): 9:59am On Oct 23, 2017 |
Beey:alright... So does the part where the catholics show works of love contrary to the greatest commandment? |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by thorpido(m): 10:07am On Oct 23, 2017 |
freshboi88:Read what I posted up there. I gave you scriptures to back up.Abi u need glasses? The bible says scriptures is nonsense to some people. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by analice107: 10:07am On Oct 23, 2017 |
HungerBAD:That idol/goddess has a representation in most ancient cultures/religions, and Rome tried to replace her with Mary in the Bible. If Mary was anything other than a vessel, Acts of the Apostles wld ve indicated that, but Mary joined other women to see to the daily management and organisation of Christ's ministry both while alive and when He died. She was never given a special seat amongst the women even. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by ashawopikin(m): 10:07am On Oct 23, 2017 |
freshboi88:dumb u say, ok o oga suit yoursellf |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by Beey(f): 10:10am On Oct 23, 2017 |
dingbang:No,there's nothing wrong with show of love.All good deeds are beautiful but they cannot earn one salvation.Eph:8-9.the Bible is clear that "we've been saved by grace through faith & it's the gift of God.Not by works, so that no one can boast." My problem with the Catholic theology is thae belief that the good deeds they do today shall save on the final day because the Bible is clear that we are saved through faith in Jesus alone. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by analice107: 10:10am On Oct 23, 2017 |
tete7000:And the Jews worshipped the Ark of the Covenant and the Cherubs? Do you even know what that symbolised? Maybe you should read Hebrews 8, 9, and 10. The Holy Spirit explains what the Art of the covenant symbolised in those chapters. Pls Stop making excuses to worship satan. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by Ubenedictus(m): 10:11am On Oct 23, 2017 |
ashawopikin:is that the only baptism in the Bible? or you just chose the one you like. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by femi4: 10:12am On Oct 23, 2017 |
freshboi88:Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented. And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him The word “baptize.” comes from a Greek word which means “to submerge in water" |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by analice107: 10:15am On Oct 23, 2017 |
Didov1:You see it so, but it's not like that. We Christians calls out errors, we do not cover sin. Muslims cover their evils, we don't, we call it out. If you are living in error, the Bible enjoins me to call you to order. The voice of pride says, don't talk about it, lest you get laughed at, and the voice of pride is the voice of satan Call a Spade a Spade, not a gardening tool. |
Re: Why Do Pentecostals Believe That Catholic Church Is Not A Bible Believing Church by dingbang(m): 10:17am On Oct 23, 2017 |
Beey:boasting about works is termed self righteousness which is a sin |
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