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Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by Akin1212(m): 6:00pm On Oct 30, 2017
UmarIbnShittu:
he uses good things to like. Wealth and status(fame) to test



Yes he knows Many are going to fail that's why he created hell for the non adherent

God knows people will fail, and that failure means liking good things. And then he created hell as a punishment for liking good things? You have really done well. And now based on your answers, I conclude that your God is malevolent, I know you will argue he is not. If you argue he is not malevolent, then that will cancel my argument which means God does not exist. Thank you for your time.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by UmarIbnShittu(m): 7:26pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:


God knows people will fail, and that failure means liking good things. And then he created hell as a punishment for liking good things? You have really done well. And now based on your answers, I conclude that your God is malevolent, I know you will argue he is not. If you argue he is not malevolent, then that will cancel my argument which means God does not exist. Thank you for your time.
k no problem sir
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by Akin1212(m): 7:29pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:


God knows people will fail, and that failure means liking good things. And then he created hell as a punishment for liking good things? You have really done well. And now based on your answers, I conclude that your God is malevolent, I know you will argue he is not. If you argue he is not malevolent, then that will cancel my argument which means God does not exist. Thank you for your time.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by UmarIbnShittu(m): 7:33pm On Oct 30, 2017
[quote author=Akin1212 post=61919286][/quote] k no problem sir
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by juanomowa(m): 7:49pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:


Unfortunately, you have not answered my question. You only tried to manipulate it, but when you can't manipulate that which can't be manipulated, you'll only dance around. Let me now answer your questions and not dance.

Firstly, according to what we have heard, Satan was one of the angels in heaven before he fell. 'fell' is a term used by those who have made God their favorite. I'll prefer 'before he went rogue.' And since then God and Satan have been struggling for power, while the innocent humans have been made to pay for it.

Secondly, None of God's creation is a robot, we all know a robot does not have free will. According to the holy books and let me say reality to an extent, Satan and Humans have the freedom to do whatever they want. So the Scientist and robot instance does not apply here.

Thirdly, God cannot be questionable and unquestionable. If he is questionable, then he is not unquestionable. If he is unquestionable then he is questionable. The suffix 'un' makes it impossible to be the two at the same time. Maybe you meant to say, some people can question him and some cannot. If you had put it that way, the whole thing wouldn't have been confusing. I can question him if he exists, you can't because you are scared.

Fourthly, You said people should question with tremble? Lol, bro, seriously? How can you question someone with fear in you? You will not speak your mind. When you question, you should do it fearlessly.

Fifthly, The pastors of whatever age are not my business, this is not about them. I read the Bible well before I became an atheist. In fact, the bible is responsible for my denouncement. You may say I didn't have the spirit of God to understand it, hear this, if I can't understand the Bible with my own physical mind then the validity is zero. And since we cannot understand it with our physical mind, why write it in a physical language? You see that nothing adds up? Thank you.


Just what i was thinking. Satan is not whom you have heard about.

It's ok if you don't understand me, but if i choose to answer your question it will take my time because i have to start from A, to clear those beliefs, and I won't say you don't have the Holy Spirit, I read Bible to a stage too, while i was in JSS 1, and i said I'm no more a Christian but I serve and believe in God.

And just the way you said it some can question while others can't, well, all can but only those who has raise their sole power to His. And those who can do so with tremble, i mean what I'm saying, you may not understand.

I can send you forgotten and lost books to read, that you may have understanding, then you surely will understand the answer i shall give and i won't have to write long epistle here.

You don't understand my point about the robot too. It's ok.

What else can I say...i just dont want to jump into talking about how much power the devil has. If you dont mind, I can send you some books; you will understand better about Satan, Lucifer, (they are not the same thing), and other fallen Angels.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by Akin1212(m): 8:26pm On Oct 30, 2017
juanomowa:


Just what i was thinking. Satan is not whom you have heard about.

It's ok if you don't understand me, but if i choose to answer your question it will take my time because i have to start from A, to clear those beliefs, and I won't say you don't have the Holy Spirit, I read Bible to a stage too, while i was in JSS 1, and i said I'm no more a Christian but I serve and believe in God.

And just the way you said it some can question while others can't, well, all can but only those who has raise their sole power to His. And those who can do so with tremble, i mean what I'm saying, you may not understand.

I can send you forgotten and lost books to read, that you may have understanding, then you surely will understand the answer i shall give and i won't have to write long epistle here.

You don't understand my point about the robot too. It's ok.

What else can I say...i just dont want to jump into talking about how much power the devil has. If you dont mind, I can send you some books; you will understand better about Satan, Lucifer, (they are not the same thing), and other fallen Angels.

Look, I know what Satan is when it comes to Islam and Christianity. And those are the ones I have called to answer these questions. If you, however, have another view or explanations, please wait until they have failed.

Trembling only means to be afraid. How can you have equal power with something and still tremble in its presence? It doesn't add up. Are you probably thinking I just became an atheist? Lol, I have dissected realistically and scientifically the probability of the existence of deities, there is not one in existence bro.

Your point about the robots does not apply, would you liken yourself to a robot of God? Or would you liken Satan who erred to a robot. We all know what robots do. I as a programmer understands that concept better than you except you have read much too.

I don't know the god you serve, but I will like to read your lost books to see what you got. Send them here Akinsdavid14@gmail.com
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by juanomowa(m): 8:48pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:


Look, I know what Satan is when it comes to Islam and Christianity. And those are the ones I have called to answer these questions. If you, however, have another view or explanations, please wait until they have failed.

Trembling only means to be afraid. How can you have equal power with something and still tremble in its presence? It doesn't add up. Are you probably thinking I just became an atheist? Lol, I have dissected realistically and scientifically the probability of the existence of deities, there is not one in existence bro.

Your point about the robots does not apply, would you liken yourself to a robot of God? Or would you liken Satan who erred to a robot. We all know what robots do. I as a programmer understands that concept better than you except you have read much too.

I don't know the god you serve, but I will like to read your lost books to see what you got. Send them here Akinsdavid14@gmail.com

Forget about the robot part, seeing you don't get it.

I never say equal power but sole power, and you don't even know what that mean.

And i don't think i talk about when you became an atheist.

You say there is not one in existence, deities, how did you come into existence? Do you know anything about astral travel?

I can bet it with you, you don't know Satan if you rely on religious beliefs.

I'm thinking of forgetting everything, you are making me feel like I'm trynna convince you about something, which is not but to make you understand what you don't know but that seems clear to you.

And Satan didn't erred. Do you know about Azazel? What can you tell me about Lucifer? Who is Satan and Who is Lucifer? If you tell me they are the same then....well. Others will answer ya.

False translation and splitting of the Scripture ruins all things.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by OkaiCorne(m): 9:07pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:
I am an atheist and I have asked a ton of Christians and Muslims, the children and slaves of Jehova and Allah these two questions. The wonder is that the first question's answer always raise the second question and they go mute. Answer it if you can but intelligently, but if you are stupid and you like e-war, I'm also at home for you.

1. Why can't God just kill Satan and everything will go back to normal, after all, he created him, so he should know how to kill him.

Their typical answer is always - God, either one, is a just God and he must follow due process.

And then the second question pops up

2. Can God do and undo and is he unquestionable?


If God can do and undo and is unquestionable, then the law can't hold him or question him.
If the law can question him, then he cannot do and undo and he is questionable. It's a simple logic

If you can answer this, and I can't come up with questions anymore, then I'm your convert.

Dear Sir, kindly permit me to tackle this from the viewpoint of common sense, and not religion.

In life generally, there are extremes called Best(God) and Worst(Devil). These extremes are needed to achieve a mid point called balance (Earth as we know it today). At the end of our lives, our souls would eventually gravitate to one of these extremes whilst the "balance" achieved from both extremes would continually serve as a "testing point" for those in that realm of existence.

God (Best) destroying Devil (Worst) at the wrong or right time would eventually nullify the balance (testing point) as we know it.

Please feel free let's rub minds. I'm very eager to see things from your point of view as well.

Stay blessed.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by Akin1212(m): 9:08pm On Oct 30, 2017
juanomowa:


Forget about the robot part, seeing you don't get it.

I never say equal power but sole power, and you don't even know what that mean.

And i don't think i talk about when you became an atheist.

You say there is not one in existence, deities, how did you come into existence? Do you know anything about astral travel?

I can bet it with you, you don't know Satan if you rely on religious beliefs.

I'm thinking of forgetting everything, you are making me feel like I'm trynna convince you about something, which is not but to make you understand what you don't know but that seems clear to you.

And Satan didn't erred. Do you know about Azazel? What can you tell me about Lucifer? Who is Satan and Who is Lucifer? If you tell me they are the same then....well. Others will answer ya.

False translation and splitting of the Scripture ruins all things.

To make things easy and smooth, why don't you just send those books. At least I will understand them when I read them.

I have told you, outside Islam and Christianity definitions of Satan can wait until the Muslims and Christians have failed. Just send the books and let's avoid writing epistles. When I read them, if I disagree then we will argue it out. I cannot just be listening and not be contributing. Whatever you want to use to explain Satan and Lucifer is according to how you serve God which I know not about, that will be to your advantage. If I read about how you found your God and disagree, then we can discuss.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by Akin1212(m): 9:26pm On Oct 30, 2017
OkaiCorne:


Dear Sir, kindly permit me to tackle this from the viewpoint of common sense, and not religion.

In life generally, there are extremes called Best(God) and Worst(Devil). These extremes are needed to achieve a mid point called balance (Earth as we know it today). At the end of our lives, our souls would eventually gravitate to one of these extremes whilst the "balance" achieved from both extremes would continually serve as a "testing point" for those in that realm of existence.

God (Best) destroying Devil (Worst) at the wrong or right time would eventually nullify the balance (testing point) as we know it.

Please feel free let's rub minds. I'm very eager to see things from your point of view as well.

Stay blessed.
Your viewpoint is quite realistic but it failed to answer the question. Your viewpoint has explained why evil is necessary in the world but it lacks the realism that characterizes our existence. Firstly, there is no proof that we go anywhere when we die, there is no proof that we don't. But according to science and what we know, the likelihood is that we don't go anywhere. We just lose all our energy and we cease to exist. There is no evidence for the existence of souls either, only if you want to tag it to the conscious mind. Secondly, your views highlighted the continuation of the balance, in this case, earth. Which means there is no day of JUDGEMENT coming for us all. which means life will continue to exist without end? Thirdly, your views failed to address how evil came to be, who created the evil? I know you believe in God and you believe God created the devil but your views didn't show that. Are you insinuating that God saw the necessity of evil and created it? God wanted evil to rock our boats? Hmmm.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by ashjay001(m): 9:34pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:


What's your point here?
Does it neutralize the fact that the Bible said God destroyed the world with water and destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah with fire? The bible and other books were clear on God's choice to destroy people while he spared Satan until now.

If those disasters you mentioned had occurred in the time of old, the time of the cavemen when science had not surfaced, they would have said God sent them. An example was when Moses was causing a revolution in Egypt, do you know they had plagues? Who did they claim was responsible? This same God.


Well, I rest my case, cos, i'm no longer a xtian. Any defense I profer will instead ridicule d bible.


Ur beef is with xtians n possibly muslims. I'm a deist.


God is omnipotent! A being, human minds are yet to fathom. U cant limit him to human rules; of good n evil, right or wrong, blessed or cursed etc

An advanced human mind can reach previously unimagined heights, with less than 40% of brain power utilised. Now try imagine its capabilities at full strength n compare this with d intelligence that made it possible?


Humans are afraid of artificial intelligence(AI), now imagine a supreme intelligence that surpasses that?
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by Akin1212(m): 10:09pm On Oct 30, 2017
ashjay001:



Well, I rest my case, cos, i'm no longer a xtian. Any defense I profer will instead ridicule d bible.


Ur beef is with xtians n possibly muslims. I'm a deist.


God is omnipotent! A being, human minds are yet to fathom. U cant limit him to human rules; of good n evil, right or wrong, blessed or cursed etc

An advanced human mind can reach previously unimagined heights, with less than 40% of brain power utilised. Now try imagine its capabilities at full strength n compare this with d intelligence that made it possible?


Humans are afraid of artificial intelligence(AI), now imagine a supreme intelligence that surpasses that?

So are you scared to ridicule the Bible? Although I suggest you don't argue it if you're not a Christian.

But God is not omnipotent, Omnipotency is the situation when you have a complete, unlimited, universal power. No claimed God has this power. gods that can't stop the raping of a toddler who is defenseless and yet they are omnipresent, seeing the incident happen live and direct. How can you say that god is omnipotent? If God has the power to stop evil won't he? No matter what religion the god is affiliated with, he/she is not omnipotent. A world a god presides over should not be like this earth, all you need to do is reason it out.

Yes, some humans are afraid of AI, but I am not. I am a programmer and AI represents what we can do. Even AI doesn't know more than we do. So what's the relationship here? I have imagined a supreme intelligence and all I see is man. If a man was to create this world, it wouldn't be like what it was before this. We recreated the world to be what it is today. Even the world God created was far lower in standards than this current world. Can you imagine, God doesn't even know technology?
They were just a buch of cavemen who travel on foot. Brother, there is no deity, there is no god.

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Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by OkaiCorne(m): 10:14pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:

Your viewpoint is quite realistic but it failed to answer the question. Your viewpoint has explained why evil is necessary in the world but it lacks the realism that characterizes our existence. Firstly, there is no proof that we go anywhere when we die, there is no proof that we don't. But according to science and what we know, the likelihood is that we don't go anywhere. We just lose all our energy and we cease to exist. There is no evidence for the existence of souls either, only if you want to tag it to the conscious mind. Secondly, your views highlighted the continuation of the balance, in this case, earth. Which means there is no day of JUDGEMENT coming for us all. which means life will continue to exist without end? Thirdly, your views failed to address how evil came to be, who created the evil? I know you believe in God and you believe God created the devil but your views didn't show that. Are you insinuating that God saw the necessity of evil and created it? God wanted evil to rock our boats? Hmmm.

If there's something I like about you... it's your inquisitive mind.

First things first, let's get something clear. According to the Bible (not me), In the beginning, creation was more on the Best (God) extreme. Evil rocked our boat as a result of man's choice, God knew the possible outcomes of Man's choice if he obeyed or disobeyed.

As man was deceived into the wrong choice, evil took over, and Humanity was on the Worst (Devil) extreme. However God has from time to time intervened in the affairs of men to at worst tip the scales back to a balanced ground (Testing point). It is at this testing point, a sifting and separation is done on souls to know which of the extremes they will fall into.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by OkaiCorne(m): 10:18pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:


So are you scared to ridicule the Bible? Although I suggest you don't argue it if you're not a Christian.

But God is not omnipotent, Omnipotency is the situation when you have a complete, unlimited, universal power. No claimed God has this power. gods that can't stop the raping of a toddler who is defenseless and yet they are omnipresent, seeing the incident happen live and direct. How can you say that god is omnipotent? If God has the power to stop evil won't he? No matter what religion the god is affiliated with, he/she is not omnipotent. A world a god presides over should not be like this earth, all you need to do is reason it out.

Yes, some humans are afraid of AI, but I am not. I am a programmer and AI represents what we can do. Even AI doesn't know more than we do. So what's the relationship here? I have imagined a supreme intelligence and all I see is man. If a man was to create this world, it wouldn't be like what it was before this. We recreated the world to be what it is today. Even the world God created was far lower in standards than this current world. Can you imagine, God doesn't even know technology?
They were just a buch of cavemen who travel on foot. Brother, there is no deity, there is no god.

With respect to your observations on the continuation of the balance, Imagine you're an examiner who sets a test, the test you would set should have a termination time right? Yes or no? I await your response.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by OkaiCorne(m): 10:24pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:


So are you scared to ridicule the Bible? Although I suggest you don't argue it if you're not a Christian.

But God is not omnipotent, Omnipotency is the situation when you have a complete, unlimited, universal power. No claimed God has this power. gods that can't stop the raping of a toddler who is defenseless and yet they are omnipresent, seeing the incident happen live and direct. How can you say that god is omnipotent? If God has the power to stop evil won't he? No matter what religion the god is affiliated with, he/she is not omnipotent. A world a god presides over should not be like this earth, all you need to do is reason it out.

Yes, some humans are afraid of AI, but I am not. I am a programmer and AI represents what we can do. Even AI doesn't know more than we do. So what's the relationship here? I have imagined a supreme intelligence and all I see is man. If a man was to create this world, it wouldn't be like what it was before this. We recreated the world to be what it is today. Even the world God created was far lower in standards than this current world. Can you imagine, God doesn't even know technology?
They were just a buch of cavemen who travel on foot. Brother, there is no deity, there is no god.

Please don't make me laugh. You are saying God the uncreated one knows nothing about technology?

Do you have an idea behind the complexity of how the universe and multiverse works? With all the advancements in Human Technology, can Humans recreate a new planet from nothing?

Because a Human being (God) cannot afford to come down to the level of an ant (human beings) to prove a point doesn't mean God is ignorant...

Our highest intelligence as humans is not even up to the level of an ant when you're comparing humans with God...

Lol @ God knows nothing about technology. grin
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by Akin1212(m): 10:27pm On Oct 30, 2017
OkaiCorne:


If there's something I like about you... it's your inquisitive mind.

First things first, let's get something clear. According to the Bible (not me), In the beginning, creation was more on the Best (God) extreme. Evil rocked our boat as a result of man's choice, God knew the possible outcomes of Man's choice if he obeyed or disobeyed.

As man was deceived into the wrong choice, evil took over, and Humanity was on the Worst (Devil) extreme. However God has from time to time intervened in the affairs of men to at worst tip the scales back to a balanced ground (Testing point). It is at this testing point, a sifting and separation is done on souls to know which of the extremes they will fall into.

On first things first, where did evil come from when creation was more on the good extreme? How did the evil come to be, you are skipping this crucial part of the whole thing. You just came up with evil rocked our boat as if it was created with us.

Second things second, This God knew Man's choice would be disobedience if he allowed evil to rock us, yes or no? So it was predetermined. He knew whatever was going to happen, he knew our choices before we make them, but yet he allowed it. Does it mean this God is evil? Or he is just using us as pawns in his chess game? This God knew Eve would eat the fruit first and eventually give it to Adam, yet he created the Eve in question. Bro this God, if all these claims are true is evil. Why would he intervene? Yes, I can remember he intervened during the time of Noah and wiped all living creatures out. He also did during the time of Sodom and Gomorrah, and we know what happened. He is not tipping the scale anywhere, just think this, we are alone here.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by OkaiCorne(m): 10:32pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:

Your viewpoint is quite realistic but it failed to answer the question. Your viewpoint has explained why evil is necessary in the world but it lacks the realism that characterizes our existence. Firstly, there is no proof that we go anywhere when we die, there is no proof that we don't. But according to science and what we know, the likelihood is that we don't go anywhere. We just lose all our energy and we cease to exist. There is no evidence for the existence of souls either, only if you want to tag it to the conscious mind. Secondly, your views highlighted the continuation of the balance, in this case, earth. Which means there is no day of JUDGEMENT coming for us all. which means life will continue to exist without end? Thirdly, your views failed to address how evil came to be, who created the evil? I know you believe in God and you believe God created the devil but your views didn't show that. Are you insinuating that God saw the necessity of evil and created it? God wanted evil to rock our boats? Hmmm.

On your point with regards to the after life, I always suggest we keep things simple. Stop bothering yourself with furthermaths if you have not passed arithmetics. The complexities and problems of our current life is still staring us in the face. We haven't solved them yet and we are all worrying fruitlessly about the after life.

First things first, let's worry and solve the challenges of this life. When we all die, what comes next should be left to the Uncreated one.

Cheers
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by OkaiCorne(m): 10:34pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:


On first things first, where did evil come from when creation was more on the good extreme? How did the evil come to be, you are skipping this crucial part of the whole thing. You just came up with evil rocked our boat as if it was created with us.

Second things second, This God knew Man's choice would be disobedience if he allowed evil to rock us, yes or no? So it was predetermined. He knew whatever was going to happen, he knew our choices before we make them, but yet he allowed it. Does it mean this God is evil? Or he is just using us as pawns in his chess game? This God knew Eve would eat the fruit first and eventually give it to Adam, yet he created the Eve in question. Bro this God, if all these claims are true is evil. Why would he intervene? Yes, I can remember he intervened during the time of Noah and wiped all living creatures out. He also did during the time of Sodom and Gomorrah, and we know what happened. He is not tipping the scale anywhere, just think this, we are alone here.

Good question! Evil came from the Devil via pride and envy...And who created the Devil (that also has a freewill!)...GOD!

Think of the Devil as a cancer cell or mutation.

Cheers
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by OkaiCorne(m): 10:36pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:


On first things first, where did evil come from when creation was more on the good extreme? How did the evil come to be, you are skipping this crucial part of the whole thing. You just came up with evil rocked our boat as if it was created with us.

Second things second, This God knew Man's choice would be disobedience if he allowed evil to rock us, yes or no? So it was predetermined. He knew whatever was going to happen, he knew our choices before we make them, but yet he allowed it. Does it mean this God is evil? Or he is just using us as pawns in his chess game? This God knew Eve would eat the fruit first and eventually give it to Adam, yet he created the Eve in question. Bro this God, if all these claims are true is evil. Why would he intervene? Yes, I can remember he intervened during the time of Noah and wiped all living creatures out. He also did during the time of Sodom and Gomorrah, and we know what happened. He is not tipping the scale anywhere, just think this, we are alone here.

I'll tell you something clearly, God has no knowledge of your choice or actions, He can only influence you, and that is why you have a freewill.

The only thing God knows for sure, is the outcome of your choice and actions.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by juanomowa(m): 10:36pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:


On first things first, where did evil come from when creation was more on the good extreme? How did the evil come to be, you are skipping this crucial part of the whole thing. You just came up with evil rocked our boat as if it was created with us.

Second things second, This God knew Man's choice would be disobedience if he allowed evil to rock us, yes or no? So it was predetermined. He knew whatever was going to happen, he knew our choices before we make them, but yet he allowed it. Does it mean this God is evil? Or he is just using us as pawns in his chess game? This God knew Eve would eat the fruit first and eventually give it to Adam, yet he created the Eve in question. Bro this God, if all these claims are true is evil. Why would he intervene? Yes, I can remember he intervened during the time of Noah and wiped all living creatures out. He also did during the time of Sodom and Gomorrah, and we know what happened. He is not tipping the scale anywhere, just think this, we are alone here.

Exactly what I'm saying.

You are thirsty for answer. Adam brought evil by giving ear to Eve.

And you dont understand a lot. God knows very well what will happen, so He made the Law. But because Eve was thinking they would become like God, she ate of the fruit.

He didn't caged His creatures, we have freedom, and He gave us the Commandments to guide our path. But by disobeying that Commandments comes death, Death never existed before nor evil.

These things are too deep, its not something to bite from the head nor to just get its tail, it will only bring more questions.

He didn't allow it to happen like you thoughts, man is responsible for it all for his disobedience. Adam brought death and what you call evil.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by juanomowa(m): 10:38pm On Oct 30, 2017
If you keep asking questions from people who don't make deep search about knowledge, they will keep giving you answers from their view of it, notion, ideas, what they heard..

1 Like

Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by Akin1212(m): 10:40pm On Oct 30, 2017
OkaiCorne:


Please don't make me laugh. You are saying God the uncreated one knows nothing about technology?

There is no uncreated god except Energy. Which is not conscious, which did not create anything but powered things and is not a being. Energy is responsible for everything, for you to type, for you to sleep, for technology and for you to think. your imaginary god does not know technology, if not he wouldn't have created the world the way he did, Technology has changed all that. Don't come up with the excuse that he wanted humans to discover it, just don't.

OkaiCorne:

Do you have an idea behind the complexity of how the universe and multiverse works? With all the advancements in Human Technology, can Humans recreate a new planet from nothing?

Because a Human being (God) cannot afford to come down to the level of an ant (human beings) to prove a point doesn't mean God is ignorant...[/]

Didn't he? Go and read the Bible comprehensively.

[quote author=OkaiCorne post=61924096]
Our highest intelligence as humans is not even up to the level of an ant when you're comparing humans with God...

Lol @ God knows nothing about technology. grin

Lol, we are wiser than God. Because we realize that Hell is not necessary, Jesus didn't have to die to save people, Mohammed need not be possessed before he could become a slave. The world need not be destroyed by water to change things. Why destroy Sodom and Gomorrah with fire? Such a god to me is not wise, there is no wisdom in all he has done.
And I repeat, God doesn't know technology because he doesn't exist
Prove me wrong by pointing to one technological effort of your God.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by ashjay001(m): 10:40pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:


So are you scared to ridicule the Bible? Although I suggest you don't argue it if you're not a Christian.

But God is not omnipotent, Omnipotency is the situation when you have a complete, unlimited, universal power. No claimed God has this power. gods that can't stop the raping of a toddler who is defenseless and yet they are omnipresent, seeing the incident happen live and direct. How can you say that god is omnipotent? If God has the power to stop evil won't he? No matter what religion the god is affiliated with, he/she is not omnipotent. A world a god presides over should not be like this earth, all you need to do is reason it out.

Yes, some humans are afraid of AI, but I am not. I am a programmer and AI represents what we can do. Even AI doesn't know more than we do. So what's the relationship here? I have imagined a supreme intelligence and all I see is man. If a man was to create this world, it wouldn't be like what it was before this. We recreated the world to be what it is today. Even the world God created was far lower in standards than this current world. Can you imagine, God doesn't even know technology?
They were just a buch of cavemen who travel on foot. Brother, there is no deity, there is no god.


Well, seems u're just one of them!grin

A programmer who doesnt realise d extent of AI?

(Inbtw, i aint scared of ridiculing d bible, but u got scared of doctufos, why should I add my brand)


Elon Musk made a statement abt d impossibility of AI, n even derided Zuckerbergs view on it! It actually became a public spat btw d two of them.

That drew me into reading as much as I can. What I read is, some company developed AI n discovered d AI was relating with other AIs' n they created their own language. They created a brand new code that took humans several hrs/days to decode.

They took a more logical view of things, that could be detrimental to humans! The programme had to be scaled down! Would search out d article for u to peruse!


What Musk arrived at, n I realised was, AI is smarter than we'll ever be! The best of human minds can only tackle so much, but all AIs will be d best available!


What have humans created, that beats complexity of a single cell? Of a whole living human being or animal or plant or even ordinary metal?

Forget d material world first! What do u think happens to that stuff, that makes u talk, eat, reason, move around, when u die? Where did it come from? Where does it go? What science can explain it? describe it? quantify it? Of what material property is it made from?


Did all this just come from happenstance? The world was n u where! U came to be, because u came to be? The earth appeared from nowhere n started rotating around d sun? In a calculable, regular n distinct manner!


How did matter come to be? Life is too complex to think it happenstance! Something designed my eyes so that d two images from both are interpreted as one single image in my brain! What did that?
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by OkaiCorne(m): 10:44pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:


There is no uncreated except Energy. Which is not conscious, which did not create anything but powered things and is not a being. Energy is responsible for everything, for you to type, for you to sleep, for technology and for you to think. your imaginary god does not know technology, if not he wouldn't have created the world the way he did, Technology has changed all that. Don't come up with the excuse that he wanted humans to discover it, just don't.

If this God gave the raw materials and brains for this technology to be made...then I wonder what point you're trying to make.

If there's no raw material, can there even be a finished product? Bros, open up your mind and see the bigger picture.

I've moved on from religion though. I'm currently seeking the raw and undiluted TRUTH.

Meanwhile it seems you're having a tough time answering some of my questions...
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by OkaiCorne(m): 10:51pm On Oct 30, 2017
Akin1212:


There is no uncreated god except Energy. Which is not conscious, which did not create anything but powered things and is not a being. Energy is responsible for everything, for you to type, for you to sleep, for technology and for you to think. your imaginary god does not know technology, if not he wouldn't have created the world the way he did, Technology has changed all that. Don't come up with the excuse that he wanted humans to discover it, just don't.


I will totally agree with you that God doesn't exist if you can:

1) Tell me of a story without a beginning.
2) Show me the starting point of a circle.
3) Demonstrate to us how your life started here without your Parents consent.

I'll be awaiting your answers eagerly. Thanks
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by OkaiCorne(m): 10:57pm On Oct 30, 2017
Honestly, you atheists should try to be a bit balanced between logic and intuition, the simple things of life holds the basic answers to the existence of a Supreme life form (the Uncreated One) out there.

I sincerely pray for an open mind for myself and every one else.

Stay blessed
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by Akin1212(m): 11:09pm On Oct 30, 2017
ashjay001:


A programmer who doesnt realise d extent of AI?
Wrong conclusion, better be a joke.

ashjay001:

(Inbtw, i aint scared of ridiculing d bible, but u got scared of doctufos, why should I add my brand)

I am surprised you have stoop low to ridiculing, this better be a joke too. Go check dico for what fear is, and go back to the post where that dude digressed the thread. It'll be clearer.

ashjay001:

Elon Musk made a statement abt d impossibility of AI, n even derided Zuckerbergs view on it! It actually became a public spat btw d two of them.

That drew me into reading as much as I can. What I read is, some company developed AI n discovered d AI was relating with other AIs' n they created their own language. They created a brand new code that took humans several hrs/days to decode.

They took a more logical view of things, that could be detrimental to humans! The programme had to be scaled down! Would search out d article for u to peruse!


Firstly before I begin, let me ask a question, are you even a programmer or do you have little knowledge of programming if no, read well. If yes, still read well sir, you can learn one or two things today.
Elon musk created an opinion, yeah it's allowed. But robots are not the only AI that can be created, the phone you're using is an AI. Programming languages interact with one another, it's not news. Android is Java, C and C++, but it interacts with PHP, Python, C++ C#, Javascript and a host of others. So AI interacting to form other language interactions is not something to be in awe about. But people like you who don't have an idea will say many things about it of course. I'm glad you said it only took several hours or day and not forever to crack. This means they don't still know more than we do because we still cracked them. Please follow gingerly.

ashjay001:

What Musk arrived at, n I realised was, AI is smarter than we'll ever be! The best of human minds can only tackle so much, but all AIs will be d best available![/qoute]

Please, who is creating these AIs? God? You're very funny, and as the recent AI that was unveiled in Saudi revealed, please stop reading too much of Elon Musk. AIs can never be smarter than Humans. You are not a programmer, you are just SCARED CITIZEN OF THE WOLRD. AIs didn't create a new language, they only interacted with each other.

[quote author=ashjay001 post=61924481]
What have humans created, that beats complexity of a single cell? Of a whole living human being or animal or plant or even ordinary metal?

Forget d material world first! What do u think happens to that stuff, that makes u talk, eat, reason, move around, when u die? Where did it come from? Where does it go? What science can explain it? describe it? quantify it? Of what material property is it made from?[/qoute]

I am a biochemist bro, I studied Biochemistry as a course. I have studied life at the molecular level, not even the cellular level. You don't want to go here with me. Don't be deluded with the fact that I am a programmer, I studied science all around. Science has explained all these, if you really want detailed explanation, I will give it.

[quote author=ashjay001 post=61924481]
Did all this just come from happenstance? The world was n u where! U came to be, because u came to be? The earth appeared from nowhere n started rotating around d sun? In a calculable, regular n distinct manner!

If God can just come to be yet we can't see him, how can me and you who are real not come to be? Or you have a detailed explanation of how God came to be? I believe your acceptance of a God is the inability of fathoming the deep basis of science.

ashjay001:

How did matter come to be? Life is too complex to think it happenstance! Something designed my eyes so that d two images from both are interpreted as one single image in my brain! What did that?

Do you know that before your eyes were designed, if some have lived who used one eye and nature changed everything? The world was dated 4 billion years ago and our race 8000 years, can you calculate the difference and imagine the things that would have lived for billions of years?
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by Akin1212(m): 11:32pm On Oct 30, 2017
OkaiCorne:

If this God gave the raw materials and brains for this technology to be made...then I wonder what point you're trying to make.

If there's no raw material, can there even be a finished product? Bros, open up your mind and see the bigger picture.

I've moved on from religion though. I'm currently seeking the raw and undiluted TRUTH.

Meanwhile it seems you're having a tough time answering some of my questions...

There are none of your questions I have skipped. I have answered them all.

I maintain, God did not give the raw materials for and brains for technology. Energy is solely responsible.

God gave Abraham the same head shape and brain as Einstein. Why didn't he devise something technological?
In fact, science just came to be in the 17th century when the Greeks inquisitive minds started freeing themselves from the shackles of religion.

Why wasn't religion able to bring technological advancements? Oh, it's a bondage, not knowledge. I know, and you know.

I am glad to know you have moved on from religion, it's a nice step towards great understanding but believing in a god is no better.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by Akin1212(m): 11:40pm On Oct 30, 2017
OkaiCorne:


I will totally agree with you that God doesn't exist if you can:

1) Tell me of a story without a beginning.
2) Show me the starting point of a circle.
3) Demonstrate to us how your life started here without your Parents consent.

I'll be awaiting your answers eagerly. Thanks

1) God is a story without a beginning, isn't it? That's one. Or does he have a beginning? But according to your question, you don't believe there can be a story without a beginning, how come you believe in God?
2)Have you ever drawn a circle with a compass or anything before? If yes, you already know the answer to this.
3)I was born, yes not created. My life started when my parents decided to have sex and not when one God decided to mold clay.

I guess you should be submitting your agreement now.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by Akin1212(m): 11:49pm On Oct 30, 2017
OkaiCorne:
Honestly, you atheists should try to be a bit balanced between logic and intuition, the simple things of life holds the basic answers to the existence of a Supreme life form (the Uncreated One) out there.

I sincerely pray for an open mind for myself and every one else.

Stay blessed

Logic is not valid where God is concerned because according to you, he doesn't care about logic. He is unquestionable. Logic questions everything. Intuition is also based on known facts and things seen with the eyes. It happens that atheists are the only ones who have these two things you want us to balance out. These simple things of life, you theists don't understand but attributes to God is what you call simple? If the uncreated one is not a physical being then it's BS. How can you not know that? This world cannot be ruled and governed by a spirit. For example, let's assume for the sake of clarity that God exists and he is omnipresent. That means he is present at all times. have you ever come across threads on the front page where infants were raped by adults? It means God was present when it was happening, but he could not do anything, totally powerless, which means he is not omnipotent. He must have seen the adult male remove the nappy of the infant, and insert his dick destroying a helpless child, but I suppose God would have either thrown his face away or can't do anything about it. But let's say he is omnipotent and was not there, that means he is not omnipresent. But if he was there and he is powerful, but yet didn't do anything to stop it, that means he was enjoying the show which will make him Malevolent. Why do you people still worship him despite all these facts? The logic of his existence goes against him. If whatever you have doesn't agree with logic then it's invalid.
Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by Akin1212(m): 12:14am On Oct 31, 2017
juanomowa:


Exactly what I'm saying.

You are thirsty for answer. Adam brought evil by giving ear to Eve.

Adam brought evil? Was Adam the creator of the serpent who deceived Eve? Why blame Adam for listening to his wife?

juanomowa:

And you dont understand a lot. God knows very well what will happen, so He made the Law. But because Eve was thinking they would become like God, she ate of the fruit.
How can you even say I don't understand when you're not listening? Your words "God knows very well what will happen, so He made the Law." Now my Question is this, did God make the law to avert what he knew will happen? Or he knew what will happen despite making the law? Please read these questions more than once to understand them before providing answers. Because if God knew what will happen, then he should have equally known that they will not follow the law, in fact, he should have known that we will argue today 4 billion years ago. But if God was hoping that they would follow the law, then God doesn't certainly know what will happen next, it's all a gamble for him, which means he is not omniscient. Think bro, just think.

juanomowa:

He didn't caged His creatures, we have freedom, and He gave us the Commandments to guide our path. But by disobeying that Commandments comes death, Death never existed before nor evil.

The caging here is that we must obey the commandments or die, isn't it? That's caging bro. A uncaged bird can fly wherever it wants and nobody will punish it for that. Is that how God treats you?

Before the commandments came, there had been evil. The commandments came after the Moses revolution in Egypt according to the Bible.
Prior to the commandments, God had always chosen from the household of Abraham favoring them over others. According to the bible still.
So which other commandments are you referring to?

juanomowa:

These things are too deep, its not something to bite from the head nor to just get its tail, it will only bring more questions.

He didn't allow it to happen like you thoughts, man is responsible for it all for his disobedience. Adam brought death and what you call evil.

Is Man responsible? I am disappointed you have opted to blame Man who was not there when the transaction between God and Devil was struck to disturb man on earth, A clueless man. You blame Adam for listening to his wife, that this same God gave him despite he did not ask for her. This same God probably didn't see the future that Eve will listen to a serpent and in turn deceive Adam.
God created the Devil, God created Eve, God created Adam, God created evil, God himself is evil. Only that he doesn't even exist and everything comes back void. We are alone.

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Re: Second amendment-> How do you find God, By intuition or by Logic? by Akin1212(m): 12:18am On Oct 31, 2017
OkaiCorne:


I'll tell you something clearly, God has no knowledge of your choice or actions, He can only influence you, and that is why you have a freewill.

The only thing God knows for sure, is the outcome of your choice and actions.

Then he is simply not omniscient, all-knowing. He doesn't know everything if as mighty as he is he doesn't know my choice of actions. At least we agree on this one. Thank you for clarifying this.

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