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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The Failure Of Christian Deism (3398 Views)
Deism And Atheism Are The Different Sides Of The Same Wrong Coin. / The Fallacy Of Agnosticism And Deism. / Ask Me Anything About Deism (2) (3) (4)
The Failure Of Christian Deism by JackBizzle: 2:01pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
Christian deism is a term for those who believe in christianity, especially the teachings of Jesus but reject the divinity and miracles. It is an interesting take on christianity but it is deeply flawed; 1) It has glaring contradictions (an oxymoron) How can you be a deist who does not believe in personal gods but follow the teachings of a man who claims to receive instructions from a personal God in heaven? How can a "non-personal" God inspire people to write a bible? 2) It has no agreed meaning There are many schools of thought in christian deism, according to its wikipedia page. Christian deism encompasses classical deism and pandeism in its philosophy. Which is quite ridiculous. A pandeist God is far different from a classical deist God. A pandeist God is a science fiction God that fused himself with the universe after creating it- How does this even relate to christianity. Also, different christian deists agree and disagree on various aspects of Jesus's teaching. 3) It is rejected by mainstream christianity as there is no church that preaches it. 4) Jesus himself was not a deist. He was a full on theist who believed in a personal God 5) Christian deism has no real morals as it picks and chooses whatever moral teaching from Jesus it likes 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by OtemSapien: 2:04pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
I think KingEbukasblog is more of a Christian Deist than just a Christian. I have never seen the guy speaking in favour of all the supposed fabulicious miracles ascribed to fictitious Jesus. 1 Like |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by JackBizzle: 2:05pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
OtemSapien: The guy should just admit that he is a deist. There is no such thing as a christian deist. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by hopefulLandlord: 2:37pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
JackBizzle: did he call himself a Christian deist? |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by Nobody: 2:45pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
JackBizzle: "Christian deist"is a thing |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by JackBizzle: 2:49pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by felixomor: 2:50pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
Hehehehehe ![]() KingEbukasBlog is still giving people seizures..... Lol 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by JackBizzle: 2:51pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord: Of course not, being the person he is. However, when I cornered him about his switching between deism and christianity, he mentioned christian deism. I did not even know something like that existed. |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by JackBizzle: 2:51pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
felixomor: Felixomoron, abeg, carry your mumu elsewhere. I take God beg you. 1 Like |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by felixomor: 2:52pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
1 Like 1 Share |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by Nobody: 2:54pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
JackBizzle: Christian deists do not believe in apersonal God that interfere they just accept the moral teachings of Jesus Christ. and yes Muslim feminists is a thing even though it may sound ridiculous to you. |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by JackBizzle: 3:07pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
Proudgorgeousga: Does the concept of an "oxymoron" elude you? |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by KingEbukasBlog(m): 5:24pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
felixomor: ![]() I tire for these people . 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by JackBizzle: 6:06pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
Proudgorgeousga: The god of the bible is a personal God....how do you call yourself a christian when you dont believe in a personal god? How can a woman be a muslim feminist when islan makes it clear that women are less than men? |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by ScepticalPyrrho: 6:52pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
JackBizzle:Ebuka also talks about "logical theists".... ![]() How can a theist be logical? Except he is delusional. |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by vaxx: 7:41pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
I could remember when I created a similar thread like this .....trying to identify religious focus atheist and science focus atheist .....calling them both irrational because they contradict themselves...... You guys were calling the thread all sorts of disgusted names..... Hope you will be seeing the same sense I am trying to make in my thread here.... 1 Like |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by hopefulLandlord: 7:42pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
vaxx: link to the thread in question? |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by vaxx: 7:46pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord:ooh, both of us had a discussion on it...... https://www.nairaland.com/4093854/atheism-definition-problematic |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by hopefulLandlord: 7:48pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
vaxx:link? |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by vaxx: 7:49pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by hopefulLandlord: 7:56pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
vaxx: Ah! I see, I think the OP was poorly constructed and that's why there was some form of hostility towards it, just my take |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by budaatum: 9:30pm On Nov 01, 2017 |
JackBizzle:Why? JackBizzle: We used to read stories about the hare and the tortoise when I was young. Would a lack of belief in any aspect of those stories stop one from being inspired by them? Does one have to believe in hare and tortoises to be inspired by them? JackBizzle:It has a meaning, you just don't want to allow it to have one. Please read the quote below for further comprehension JackBizzle:The fact that Christ is a source of their inspiration would make some people classify them as Christians. JackBizzle:The beliefs of the individual do not require mainstream acceptance. And one does not need a congregation to validate ones stance! JackBizzle:Some would argue he was a Jew but he seems to have stepped out of the box. It could also be argued that he has inspired one to do likewise, hence the personal position/perspective/ ideology etc. JackBizzle:I've heard that one before, and it goes like this: "Atheists have no morals because they....." Get the drift? |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by JackBizzle: 12:47am On Nov 02, 2017 |
ScepticalPyrrho: lol.....the guy can spin lies like a spider spins webs. 2 Likes |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by JackBizzle: 1:03am On Nov 02, 2017 |
budaatum: The points I made are very simple. 1. The God of the bible is a personal God. How can you be a deist and still follow Jesus or the bible when both of them make it clear that it is a prerequisite to believe in the personal God called Yahweh. No matter how you treat it, it is a contradiction. Christian Deism is an oxymoron. 2. The bible is written by men inspired by God. That is the common saying but you are right- "inspired" is not appropriate because it is an understatement. What I mean to convey is that the bible is written by men who were in contact with God. That is a personal God. 3. Being a christian is far more than just picking a few teachings of Jesus christ. After all, few of his teachings are universal in many philosphies and religion. So, because I agree with the golden rule, I am now a christian? 4. Jesus was not a deist. Simple and short. 5. If you are rejected by a mainstream of your religion, then you are not a valid school of thought within the religion. Even if your logic is sound, you are outside the religion. An outlier. 6. We have a christian deist here that tries to make moral arguments based on his christian deism. That is what I am challenging. The difference with atheists (especially humanists) is that they base their morality on logic/rationality. The christian deist ignores over 75% of the bible but still wants to use a form of religious morality. How? |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by JackBizzle: 10:22am On Nov 02, 2017 |
vaxx: Bro, your thread was attacked because the op did not make sense. There is no such thing as a moral atheist or a science atheist. 1 Like |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by budaatum: 12:56pm On Nov 02, 2017 |
JackBizzle:What is meant by "believe in the personal God called Yahweh"? The fact that it is personal means my relationship is whatever I say it is. But I agree that it may seem contradictory and oxymoronic to perceived opinion JackBizzle:There's that "personal" again! JackBizzle:Bollocks, pardon my Spanish. A certain Christian prayed to God in Jesus name last night before going to rob a bank. A certain Pastor prayed for his congregation last Sunday in Church, took from the offering and went to a LovePeddler house afterwards in the jet he bought. Surely we have taken a "few of his teachings" and disregarded the bits that do not suit our purposes. We are a la carte Christians taking from the menu as suits our hypocritical needs. Jesus is still lord, we would claim, and saviour. We don't have to be perfect you know, and the fact that Jesus died to wash my sins away is a comforting bonus! JackBizzle:Jesus was what he was. Come on man! Some say Jesus was a god! Do I have to become a god too in order to followhim? Buda is what buda is, least as far as buda is concerned. Simple and short JackBizzle:Rubbish. And sorry again, it's for effect and not aimed at you personally. Church, or mainstream may reject me, but I intend, first, to lie and make them think I am holy, and second, I can go to a different church and not tell them, and third and more importantly, I can do my worship in private. I wouldn't be the first one doing a Jacob nor do I need authority to be whatever sort of Christian I claim to be! JackBizzle:"Jesus is my lord and saviour. Jesus is not a god!" I have come to this conclusion based on logic and rational, as far as I am able to and it satisfies me. I may be an oxymoronic, non-mainstream, logical, rational, deist, atheist, Christian to some, but their opinion or label stamping, is not my problem! My point is, ones relationship with ones god is inherentally subjective and personal to the individual. |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by JackBizzle: 1:09pm On Nov 02, 2017 |
budaatum: You have given some good counter arguments. However, it all points to your summary that religion is just subjective bollocks. Anyone can claim anything nowadays. Women now call themselves "muslim feminists". 1 Like |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by budaatum: 1:28pm On Nov 02, 2017 |
JackBizzle:That's exactly my point. Thanks for seeing it. By the way, muslim feminism is possible and desirable. It is a position that fights against the misogyny that some have justified with their interpretation of the relevant religious text. Whatever one thinks, those texts were enlightenment when they were written, and thought on it evolves. So one must beware not to take the text, or the interpretation some give it, as the god. Or as the Buddhist would claim, do not mistake the finger for the moon it points to. |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by JackBizzle: 1:48pm On Nov 02, 2017 |
budaatum: ![]() Keep helping the remixers of religion remix. Thats how we ended up with "christian atheism". ![]() ![]() ![]() 1 Like |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by STUPUDTHEISTS: 3:34pm On Nov 02, 2017 |
Proudgorgeousga: But Ebuka worships at chosen church and also believes in a god who interferes via miracles and whatnot. Truth is, the weasel is a nuthead Christian fundamentalist. He deceitfully argues for the deist god 'cause of the stupid and idiotic nature of the Bible god. Lol |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by budaatum: 4:06pm On Nov 02, 2017 |
JackBizzle:It can't be helped, or stopped I'm afraid. It's proper name is 'Philosophy', just that we ride on the religious words that we have been taught and know, but rather than evolve, we believe! Which is the natural state of the unenlightened, and which is symbolised in the Myth of the Garden of Eden Many would not agree, but even Christ mixed all sorts to create Christianity, "The Kingdom of God is within you," he said, reiterating the creation mix whereby Yahweh mythologically breathed himself into mud to create Man. And if you do not get it, "I will send the Holy Spirit to minister to you", he is further written to have said. But just in case people go too far and make up their own law, they add that he "did not come to change the law", but came to fulfil it, and mythologised that he died for people's sins and now sits on the right hand of god where he judges the living and the dead! We are demythologising god here. That's us doing philosophy. Soon, you will note that the bible is completely degodded and revered no more than any old book. Be assured, a people of power are being wrought here. What's that voice in my head that makes me think my subjectivity is objective again? Holy Ghosts! |
Re: The Failure Of Christian Deism by budaatum: 4:17pm On Nov 02, 2017 |
JackBizzle:And when we tried to explain it to you, vaxx, despite having worked between the limitations you set, you claimed your subjective opinion was objective reality but others subjectivity was them foolishly placing teapots in the sky (though I am certain you used stronger words of insult than that). The impression I had at the time was that of a child sulking in the rain but refusing to accept it was cold and wet. However, it occurred to me that that might be the exact same subjective opinion you had of me. (I wonder if we are ready to discuss the differences between subjective opinion and objectivity yet? Just a thought.) |
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