NiyiOmoIyunade:
I remember Oga Chris mentioned some Axpert inverters he had in production which failed when the end-users flipped the battery breaker while the inverter was 'inverting'.

I also had a Zinox (similar to Axpert) which died once after the breaker tripped due to an overload condition - it also had an internal component failure at the exact same moment so no way to know if the battery breaker tripping caused the internal component failure or if the internal short was what tripped the battery breaker

Most inverters I know you can safely trip the battery breaker without issues but certainly it is not the manufacturers' intention that the breaker should trip regularly/daily (this is for those who would want to use tripping the battery breaker as a low voltage disconnect mechanism).

Oga Pranil's suggestion still seems to me most workable long term if one is technically savvy enough to pull it off - personally I am not very strong at electronics and I hate to open a factory sealed equipment to tweak it - after it fails by itself then it is a different matter and all bets are off because at that point I experiment freely.

You are right on Oga Chris bservation about axpert inverters .. Saipro case is different as I know the inverter he mentioned . Pure sinewave inverters varies and you can't really compare same with axpert or modified sinewave inverters which most companies claim its pure wave like your 'I power plus" which had issues and most of these cheap inverters with "inbuilt solar charge controllers" ... You are also right about opening some equipment and voiding warranty seals .. DIY really has its limitations tho !!

kiekie1:
These are different points but a nice example .. In your analysis , your 40a DC breaker installed in your american inverter serves as an " overload control breaker" but it dosnt affect anything whilst it trips! Yes , but does it automatically "reset" to recharge your batteries when grid supply is available ? Does it restart after trip when it senses charge voltage from mppt / solar source ? Its a manual approach I must say... DOD settings are mostly automated in most systems and it resets itself . .

Note : Saipro, the 1.5kva inverter you have has a low battery cut off (21-21.5v) instead of 20v as you see on most Chinese inverters .. Take time to observe as its considerably okay alongside it's high surge capability & self low idle power consumption which is excellent !!!

You have insider info thus know the inverter in question, plus its ruggedness and ability to recover from hard and soft breaks. I view breaking the DC side under load the same as I would view switching off the inverter under load (Pranil's parallel LVD relay) though his resets itself and is easier to maintain (no need to manually reset the breaker).

Yes, mine has an LVD (programmable) as well OVD and lots of other features (which I'm willing to bet kiekie1 hasn't explored like I have, as I've found a way to "talk" to the hardware via an interface) but my breaker is purely to avoid overload abuse and not really an LVD issue thus I did not address the original issue whereas Pranil did.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
This then is the million dollar question - are the successful battery recoveries we are able to perform due to isolating the batteries and giving them a full charge and thereby allowing the sulfur on the plates to go back into the electrolyte solution or are they due to the workings of the desulfators we attach? If desulfators indeed work, to what degree 10%, 50%, 100%?

Where there are other issues like you mentioned below, we obviously get no joy either with attempting a full charge or with desulfation
....

With regards to a dead or dying battery, desulphators help but aren't really reliable. The true benefit of desulphators (thus the alternate term of battery life extenders) is in attaching them to new batteries ab initio. If all else works as planned and the batteries are fairly well maintained, they do work wonders. I use car batteries for about 2 -3 years (run-of -the-mill types) and up to 5 years (OEM batteries). My current run-of-the-mill type has lasted four years without showing significant capacity degradation. I installed a battery optimizer right from the start. The other cars in the house are showing the same trend. Same battery for them all (GT).

Inverters uses power MOSFETS as the switching device and they are susceptible to stray capacitance, inductance and static charges. they have a high tendency to fail if for instance mains is connected but the battery line is broken either by a breaker or blown fuse that while in my installation, the mains passes tru one pole of a 3 pole breaker while the battery cable and solar cable passes tru the others so that when the breaker trips, all the power inputs are cut off. Also a tripped battery breaker with mains on will provide no grounding for the MOSFETS which also functions as the rectifiers during charging and thus prone to failures. I use mustpower 24v, 3kva but it is well protected and everything works well including charging however when i want to disulphate, i switch off my breaker to my Epsolar charge controller due to tendency of it going on fault due to the high desulphation voltage.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I remember Oga Chris mentioned some Axpert inverters he had in production which failed when the end-users flipped the battery breaker while the inverter was 'inverting'.

I also had a Zinox (similar to Axpert) which died once after the breaker tripped due to an overload condition - it also had an internal component failure at the exact same moment so no way to know if the battery breaker tripping caused the internal component failure or if the internal short was what tripped the battery breaker

Most inverters I know you can safely trip the battery breaker without issues but certainly it is not the manufacturers' intention that the breaker should trip regularly/daily (this is for those who would want to use tripping the battery breaker as a low voltage disconnect mechanism).

Oga Pranil's suggestion still seems to me most workable long term if one is technically savvy enough to pull it off - personally I am not very strong at electronics and I hate to open a factory sealed equipment to tweak it - after it fails by itself then it is a different matter and all bets are off because at that point I experiment freely.

I doubt they work else batteries would live forever

earthrealm:


yeah..mos of what you wrote above, hv already stated b4.
i hv 3 diff types of desulphator...hooked to diff systems...even hv one on the car, next month will make it 3yrs of my chinco car batt, will be a believer of the desulphator if it makes it to > 4yrs.

just checked..the powerpulse is hooked to my villa setup, luminous 1.5kva inverter...
on my mustpower setup..i hv cleanpower desulphator - https://www.amazon.com/Batteries-Battery-Regenerator-Pulse-Desulfator/dp/B00IQ5X91I/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1510759788&sr=8-6&keywords=desulphator

really inconclusive if the desulphators are working or not, but also not buying additional units till i can confirm their usefullness

I fix my mustpower temperature issue by relocation the themistor to the transformer body that way the fan kicks in at 40degrees vs 65 degrees so mine runs cool now. use to be very hot before the fan kicks in

Saipro:

Nothing so fanciful bro.
Since warranties are moot, I wasted no time in cracking open my first two MustPower inverters (24V and 48V) to ensure they stop the normal 60^o - 65^oC design operating temperature range (lower temperatures generally guarantee longer lifespan). Cutting and splicing the the negative of the fan to the core negative/ground did the trick. Alas, idle consumption rose 50%. Reverted the next morning for one (as a control) and the next week for the other. Both are still alive showing no imminent sign of demise though the 48V has be sent to the store and replaced with another 24V model

Evrything has limitation DIY rocks!

kiekie1:


You are right on Oga Chris bservation about axpert inverters .. Saipro case is different as I know the inverter he mentioned . Pure sinewave inverters varies and you can't really compare same with axpert or modified sinewave inverters which most companies claim its pure wave like your 'I power plus" which had issues and most of these cheap inverters with "inbuilt solar charge controllers" ... You are also right about opening some equipment and voiding warranty seals .. DIY really has its limitations tho !!

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Hello Pranil, a question please,

With your multiple inverters, do you have a COMMON NEUTRAL output AC wiring for all the loads connected to them? or does each inverter have its separate live and neutral wiring for their loads?

pranil:


It is perfectly safe for the inverter DC input to be abruptly cut off. It just stops working. May take few milliseconds to discharge capacitors but the AC supply dies instnatly. if you notice most of the inverters have a fixed input voltage unlike charge controllers which can handle multiple voltages 12/24/48 etc.,

This happens in my case regularly
1. I have a pure inverter 48 V 350 VA which supplies only critical loads like server /modem etc - (kind of UPS with Giant Battery). I Just switch off the DC input to shut it down ( the switch on inverter is tiny and I cannot remember which side to push for power saving and which side for off)

2. The other scenario almost happens daily with my microinverter - these inverters are connected directly to solar panel DC and not battery that means they switch off and switch on every day with sunset/sunrise and see wide fluctuations in voltage


if your inverter has Hardwired ON off siwtch ( like sukam or Prag) you might want to considering wiring a DC low volatge relay conact in parallel so that on Low volatge the inverter just switches off like pressing the off button

who can guess. ?

I own a 1kva and a 3kva ipowerplus(Axpert) inverter. Both have tripped the Dc input breaker at least twice without any damage.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I remember Oga Chris mentioned some Axpert inverters he had in production which failed when the end-users flipped the battery breaker while the inverter was 'inverting'.

I also had a Zinox (similar to Axpert) which died once after the breaker tripped due to an overload condition - it also had an internal component failure at the exact same moment so no way to know if the battery breaker tripping caused the internal component failure or if the internal short was what tripped the battery breaker

I agree with you that desulfators seem to work best when clamped on a new battery bank from day one.

Interestingly, I have a powerpulse 12v desulfator on my car battery as well and I am going on 3+ years now with that particular battery - again, car/starter batteries never really suffer deep discharge hence little sulfation on their plates unlike in a deep cycle battery application.

What I learnt the hard way now is before I commission any new batteries, I charge each battery fully to be sure they are all 100% charged, if time and client permits, I also load test each one to be sure of its initial capacity - this helps me to avoid premature battery failure and happy clients overall.

Indeed batteries are the weakest point and always give the most trouble and expense in any RE system - with the promise of Lithium ever so good now, I see light at the end of the tunnel.

On a lighter note, I noticed I am the only one who spells sul f ur and desul f ation American style

Saipro:


With regards to a dead or dying battery, desulphators help but aren't really reliable. The true benefit of desulphators (thus the alternate term of battery life extenders) is in attaching them to new batteries ab initio. If all else works as planned and the batteries are fairly well maintained, they do work wonders. I use car batteries for about 2 -3 years (run-of -the-mill types) and up to 5 years (OEM batteries). My current run-of-the-mill type has lasted four years without showing significant capacity degradation. I installed a battery optimizer right from the start. The other cars in the house are showing the same trend. Same battery for them all (GT).

This is an innovative way to tackle this MustPower temperature management problem.

Indeed, human ingenuity knows no bounds!

Kudos Sir

DMerciful:
I fix my mustpower temperature issue by relocation the themistor to the transformer body that way the fan kicks in at 40degrees vs 65 degrees so mine runs cool now. use to be very hot before the fan kicks in

You do bring a unique perspective to equipment/cable safety using breakers.

The three pole breaker you mentioned - is it dual rated to handle both AC & DC currents? If it is please share the brand names and specs.

I only break my inverter battery connection (60/100A DC MCB, Inverter AC charging input (32A MCB), Inverter ouput (6A or 10A or 16A.... AC MCB) as typical loads dictate.

In solar applications, I break only the solar input - I stopped breaking the CC to battery connection after I lost my 60A morningstar MPPT CC to an unexpected breaker trip one fine sunny afternoon like that - as I heard the loud bang and rushed to the balcony, I saw magic smoke, fire and brimstone coming out of the CC - IMMEDIATELY I STARTED HAVING A NASTY HEADACHE AS I CONTEMPLATED THE REPLACEMENT COST OF A NEW MORNINGSTAR CC.

DMerciful:
Inverters uses power MOSFETS as the switching device and they are susceptible to stray capacitance, inductance and static charges. they have a high tendency to fail if for instance mains is connected but the battery line is broken either by a breaker or blown fuse that while in my installation, the mains passes tru one pole of a 3 pole breaker while the battery cable and solar cable passes tru the others so that when the breaker trips, all the power inputs are cut off. Also a tripped battery breaker with mains on will provide no grounding for the MOSFETS which also functions as the rectifiers during charging and thus prone to failures. I use mustpower 24v, 3kva but it is well protected and everything works well including charging however when i want to disulphate, i switch off my breaker to my Epsolar charge controller due to tendency of it going on fault due to the high desulphation voltage.

It is a DC breaker of 100A. The mains going through one of the poles is usually less than 20A so no issues and mind you this breaker will not trip due to AC overload or surge but when the DC line trips, the whole breaker trips ensuring mains no longer feeds into the inverter until the breaker is reset.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
You do bring a unique perspective to equipment/cable safety using breakers.

The three pole breaker you mentioned - is it dual rated to handle both AC & DC currents? If it is please share the brand names and specs.

I only break my inverter battery connection (60/100A DC MCB, Inverter AC charging input (32A MCB), Inverter ouput (6A or 10A or 16A.... AC MCB) as typical loads dictate.

In solar applications, I break only the solar input - I stopped breaking the CC to battery connection after I lost my 60A morningstar MPPT CC to an unexpected breaker trip one fine sunny afternoon like that - as I heard the loud bang and rushed to the balcony, I saw magic smoke, fire and brimstone coming out of the CC - IMMEDIATELY I STARTED HAVING A NASTY HEADACHE AS I CONTEMPLATED THE REPLACEMENT COST OF A NEW MORNINGSTAR CC.

For my EPsolar, itracer 60A, i use 2 breakers. One breaker which is a double pole breaker of 40A is btw the PV and CC lines. The other breaker of 80A double pole is btw the CC and battery. Here i only protect the positive terminal with one pole while the remaining free pole is use to break the PV input positive. This way, anythime the CC-battery breaker trips, there is no PV input to the CC

NiyiOmoIyunade:
You do bring a unique perspective to equipment/cable safety using breakers.

The three pole breaker you mentioned - is it dual rated to handle both AC & DC currents? If it is please share the brand names and specs.

I only break my inverter battery connection (60/100A DC MCB, Inverter AC charging input (32A MCB), Inverter ouput (6A or 10A or 16A.... AC MCB) as typical loads dictate.

In solar applications, I break only the solar input - I stopped breaking the CC to battery connection after I lost my 60A morningstar MPPT CC to an unexpected breaker trip one fine sunny afternoon like that - as I heard the loud bang and rushed to the balcony, I saw magic smoke, fire and brimstone coming out of the CC - IMMEDIATELY I STARTED HAVING A NASTY HEADACHE AS I CONTEMPLATED THE REPLACEMENT COST OF A NEW MORNINGSTAR CC.

DMerciful:
For my EPsolar, itracer 60A, i use 2 breakers. One breaker which is a double pole breaker of 40A is btw the PV and CC lines. The other breaker of 80A double pole is btw the CC and battery. Here i only protect the positive terminal with one pole while the remaining free pole is use to break the PV input positive. This way, anythime the CC-battery breaker trips, there is no PV input to the CC

Genius !!!

DIY-ification:

1. DC fan to reduce CC temp; timed to work between 10am - 5pm automatically
2. CC Temp at peak; used to be nothing less than 47 degrees celcius.

This bros DMerciful is a sure guy! The more I read his posts, the more I come to respect the man's genius.

makavele:


Genius !!!

DMerciful:
For my EPsolar, itracer 60A, i use 2 breakers. One breaker which is a double pole breaker of 40A is btw the PV and CC lines. The other breaker of 80A double pole is btw the CC and battery. Here i only protect the positive terminal with one pole while the remaining free pole is use to break the PV input positive. This way, anythime the CC-battery breaker trips, there is no PV input to the CC

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makavele:
DIY-ification:

1. DC fan to reduce CC temp; timed to work between 10am - 5pm automatically
2. CC Temp at peak; used to be nothing less than 47 degrees celcius.

It's a nice step if you can toggle between the DC load timing. You might not need to go all this stress if you install in an airy room / lobby / balcony etc .. Cheers !

kiekie1:


It's a nice step if you can toggle between the DC load timing. You might not need to go all this stress if you install in an airy room / lobby / balcony etc .. Cheers !

It's actually installed in a spacious and airy lobby; but still get hots during peak hours,
I believe it is quite normal to be; but man, I don't want to take chances.

Hey guys, good morning, please can someone tell me if we were duped.

We installed 2,000 watts worth of solar in our house, running on a 48v inverter and I have never seen more than 20amps being generated no matter the level of sun luminosity.

I even loaded a 1,600 watt vacuum cleaner one sunny afternoon to try and force as much amps as I could out of the panels, but still couldn't get above 1,000watts. Could they have mixed defective panels with good ones

Also, I don't get any power after 6pm. Is that how solar panels work I thought they kept generating power until it is COMPLETELY DARK outside.

NoMoreTrolling:
Hey guys, good morning, please can someone tell me if we were duped.

We installed 2,000 watts worth of solar in our house, running on a 48v inverter and I have never seen more than 20amps being generated no matter the level of sun luminosity.

I even loaded a 1,600 watt vacuum cleaner one sunny afternoon to try and force as much amps as I could out of the panels, but still couldn't get above 1,000watts. Could they have mixed defective panels with good ones

Also, I don't get any power after 6pm. Is that how solar panels work I thought they kept generating power until it is COMPLETELY DARK outside.

Give us spec of ur setup sir, hw many panels is being used, wattage?, wher did u place panels, roof mount, ground mount, wht direction southern, Eastern etc

makavele:


It's actually installed in a spacious and airy lobby; but still get hots during peak hours,
I believe it is quite normal to be; but man, I don't want to take chances.

This my oga jst dey explore dey go. Enjoy

makavele:


It's actually installed in a spacious and airy lobby; but still get hots during peak hours,
I believe it is quite normal to be; but man, I don't want to take chances.

Nice move, after watching several reviews about epever A tracer, You need to install fans in order to extend the lifespan as they get hot during peak periods.. most user on YouTube did exactly the same, they even go the extent of adding temperature sensor that automatically controls the fans...

NoMoreTrolling:
Hey guys, good morning, please can someone tell me if we were duped.

We installed 2,000 watts worth of solar in our house, running on a 48v inverter and I have never seen more than 20amps being generated no matter the level of sun luminosity.

I even loaded a 1,600 watt vacuum cleaner one sunny afternoon to try and force as much amps as I could out of the panels, but still couldn't get above 1,000watts. Could they have mixed defective panels with good ones

Also, I don't get any power after 6pm. Is that how solar panels work I thought they kept generating power until it is COMPLETELY DARK outside.

Hello, if your location is within Lagos state , we can help you in troubleshooting .

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zeestone99:


Give us spec of ur setup sir, hw many panels is being used, wattage?, wher did u place panels, roof mount, ground mount, wht direction southern, Eastern etc

Think they are 10 200 watt panels, roof mounted on a one storey building. Unfortunately I don't know the direction.

Everything is still under warranty, so I can call the guy back if something is wrong somewhere.

He was saying that, solar amps harvested is dependent on the battery AH rating. i.e for a 200ah rating, he was saying the charge controller would never output more than 20amps (10% of 200AH), to preserve the life of the battery.

I on the other hand was arguing that the solar amps harvested should be depended on the load. So if I have a load that requires say 30amps, then it doesn't matter if my battery bank is 200ah. If the panels can supply that 30amps, then they should.

I don't know who is right here, me or him.

kiekie1:


Hello, if your location is within Lagos state , we can help you in troubleshooting .

Contact:
Smartcell global services
081-350-319-51

Thanks Kiekie, but everything is still under warranty. 2 years for the battery and 10 years for the panels.

So i will be calling him back, once i get some feedback on here.

zeestone99:


Give us spec of ur setup sir, hw many panels is being used, wattage?, wher did u place panels, roof mount, ground mount, wht direction southern, Eastern etc

hey, also when he was connecting the panels, he said he was going to do a 2 series/ parallel string.

okay, i think they were 250 watt panels, so he must have done, 2 series by 4 parallel.

The thing is, when he showed me the VOC for the panels, it was like 60 something volts, we are using a 48v inverter.

I told him that since we are installing an MPPT controller, he should do 3 series by 3 parallel connection, even if it means that we have to buy an additional panel, but he said that having a high VOC could damage the controller, even if the controller is rated for high VOC. He said on some sunny days, the VOC could exceed rated VOC and damage the controller.

I dunno, but I thought the whole point of having an MPPT controller was so you could get very high VOCs and step them down, so that on cloudy days, you would still make some power.

What time does your solar setup stop producing power? Is it still a bit light outside, or does yours stop only when its completely dark outside?

NoMoreTrolling:


Thanks Kiekie, but everything is still under warranty. 2 years for the battery and 10 years for the panels.

So i will be calling him back, once i get some feedback on here.

Something might be wrong somwer in your set up.. Send pictures of the mppt , wire guages in/out of the mppt .. 3×3 PV configuration is always best for 48v inverter systems ...Did you use a combiner box & mc4 connectors or he looped all the PV cables together ? If a combiner box was used, trouble shooting of PV array strings is always easier .. My mobile number is 24hours available for further enquiries ! Cheers

NOTE: In my set-up, its ground mounted due to the weak asbestos roofing sheet on the bungalow I intended using and trouble shooting "measuring individual panel voc/vmp/isc" is very easy for me.. In my storey building jobs,I always make use of improvised affordable combiner box with DC breakers.. Pending on mppt, mine stops charging -sleeps before 7pm most days ... See attached pics below ;