Its a fact and i will proove it to you

1.. There is no new testament without the Old Testament... Those who compiled the New testament never questioned the Authority of the Old Testament..
Here is the History of How the New Testament was compiled according to Gotquestion.com
Question: "How and when was the canon of the Bible put together?"

Answer: The term “canon” is used to describe the books that are divinely inspired and therefore belong in the Bible. The difficulty in determining the biblical canon is that the Bible does not give us a list of the books that belong in the Bible. Determining the canon was a process conducted first by Jewish rabbis and scholars and later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing. It was simply a matter of God’s convincing His human followers which books should be included in the Bible.

Compared to the New Testament, there was much less controversy over the canon of the Old Testament. Hebrew believers recognized God’s messengers and accepted their writings as inspired of God. While there was undeniably some debate in regards to the Old Testament canon, by A.D. 250 there was nearly universal agreement on the canon of Hebrew Scripture. The only issue that remained was the Apocrypha, with some debate and discussion continuing today. The vast majority of Hebrew scholars considered the Apocrypha to be good historical and religious documents, but not on the same level as the Hebrew Scriptures.

For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.

The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in AD 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In AD 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with one book of the Apocrypha) and 26 books of the New Testament (everything but Revelation) were canonical and to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (AD 393) and the Council of Carthage (AD 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.

The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.

What's ur motive?

How do you mean "believe in the old testament"?

are you talking about following the old testament? or just believing what happened in old testament is true? or is it something else?

klassykute:
What's ur motive?

to correct the notion that its only the new testament that speaks to Christians and the old testament is for the jews alone

2.... Understanding of the Jewish Educational systems..
The jews had three schools and before you can attain the position of a Rabbi you must pass through the three schools


Bet Sefer – House of the Book

In the Jewish culture of Jesus’ day kids were taught the Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) in the local Synagogue (church) beginning at the age of 6. They had classes 5 days a week just like we do today. By the time they were about 10 years old, they had memorized all of those first five books. These classes were called “Bet Sefer.” Anyway, most Jewish kids were pretty well finished with school after this and went home to learn the family trade – like fishing or carpentry or something like that.

Bet Talmud – House of Learning

Now, the kids who were really the best of the best among them were allowed to continue in school in something called “Bet Talmud.” Here, they studied all of the Hebrew Scriptures (Our Old Testament) and memorized all of them between the ages of 10-14. During this time, students also learned the Jewish art of questions an answers. Instead of answering with an answer, they were taught to answer with another question. In this way, students could demonstrate both their knowledge and their great regard for the Scriptures. They were taught to always be curious about the Scriptures. Look at how Jesus was described as a young boy in Luke 2:46-47 – “After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.”

Bet Midrash – House of Study

Very few of these students ever made it this far. For the few who did there was still another set of classes called “Bet Midrash.” If you were smart enough and knew your scriptures well enough to make it this far, you were given the opportunity to go to a rabbi (teacher) to seek further education. The rabbi would grill you and ask you all kinds of questions, because he was trying to find out if you were good enough to be his student. He wanted to know if you knew enough, but even more importantly, if you could be like him in all areas of your life. If he decided that he didn’t think you could do it, then he would tell you to go back to the family business. It was very rare, but if he thought highly enough of you, he would become your teacher and it would be your goal to become like him in every way. You would agree to take on his “beliefs” and his interpretations of the scriptures. This was called his “yoke” and he would say to you, “come follow me.” This was a huge privilege that was offered to very few people. The disciple’s (also called “talmudim”) job was to become like the rabbi in every way. If the rabbi was hurt and had a limp, you might see his healthy disciples walking behind him (in his footsteps) with a limp.

My Thoughts

Now, listen to Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:28-30 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

I used to always wonder why the disciples were so quick to drop their nets, their jobs, and their lives to follow Jesus. However, this understanding changes things. The disciples were normal guys who were out working in their family trades. This means they didn’t make the cut. They had already dropped out of school and had resigned themselves to the fact that they would probably never be able to follow a rabbi or become a disciple. When Jesus came along and made His offer, they jumped at the opportunity. They didn’t want to miss it, so they dropped what they were doing and went. This would be the equivalent of Michael Jordan saying to a Jr High student “Hey, I see a lot of potential in you. Would you want to come and do some training with me?”

In the end, Jesus is our rabbi. We are to become like him in every way. 1 Peter 2:21 – “To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.”

Hence everyone of Jesus disciples attended at least beth sefer so the knew the torah up to d level that they could resite

3... The early Christians had no matthew to Revelation all they had as at that time was the Torah and it was taught according to the Teachings of their Rabbi( Christ) even long after his death hence they were called followers of Christ or Christians.. Jesus asked his disciples to search the scriptures john 5:39(the only scripture they had then was the Torah)
The three scriptures that Jesus quoted wen Satan came to tempt him are all from Torah... Two from Deuteronomy and 1 from psalms.. When Jesus was to preach in the temple he quoted in from the book of isaiah..

Paul the apostle refered to the Torah as the "The oracles of God''
Roman 3:1,2
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

The popular thou shall not live by bread alone made by jesus is from old testament book of detronomy to the new testament book of Mathew. See ch-8&4 of each boobk.

salvation101:
to correct the notion that its only the new testament that speaks to Christians and the old testament is for the jews alone

so ur sayin moses nd d old prophets were not Christians? D bible is the manual of life. From genesis 1 to end of rev is revelant to Christians even Jesus read from the Old Testament. So if u dont have anytin to say other than take people's mind away from se part of Gods word then take a chair, sit down and be humble

klassykute:
so ur sayin moses nd d old prophets were not Christians? D bible is the manual of life. From genesis 1 to end of rev is revelant to Christians even Jesus read from the Old Testament. So if u dont have anytin to say other than take people's mind away from se part of Gods word then take a chair, sit down and be humble

u didn't understand my statement and i forgive u for that. What i meant is that this topic is targeted to so called Christians who say everything in the old testament is only for the nation of israel and doest apply to them. I am here to proove that the old testament is very relevant according to 2tim3:16

By the way Moses was not a Christian cos Christianity started after Christ but the old testament is still very relevant in believe

Continue to device yourself. You think sound doctrine is all about JUST KNOWING AND QUOTING SCRIPTURES? LOL

Goshen360:
Continue to device yourself. You think sound doctrine is all about JUST KNOWING AND QUOTING SCRIPTURES? LOL

ur doctrine is not sound if it can't be backed up by scriptures.

New International Version
Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God...Matt22:29
The Knowledge of the Scripture and the Power of God are two different things and many don't even KNOW the difference.
Regrettably,they are not Willing/Ready to "Know"
Until the "Old Wine Skin Burst" I believe they will still be adamant to "Know"
And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins."..Mark2:22

salvation101:
ur doctrine is not sound if it can't be backed up by scriptures.

Off course I agree to backing up a sound doctrine with scriptures but not just quoting scriptures but rightly dividing scriptures and being consistent with the truth.

salvation101:
u didn't understand my statement and i forgive u for that. What i meant is that this topic is targeted to so called Christians who say everything in the old testament is only for the nation of israel and doest apply to them. I am here to proove that the old testament is very relevant according to 2tim3:16

By the way Moses was not a Christian cos Christianity started after Christ but the old testament is still very relevant in believe

What will be the fate of Moses (pbuh) on day of resurrection and the Prophets that followed since they were not Christians and salvation is only through Christianity?

Of course we believe in the OT, we needed to know the origins or pre-cursor of the Christian faith.But the fact still remains that the laws of moses are no longer applicable.I am even yet to see any church which still practises the law.The only portion some thieves sieved out is tithing which is the basis for this thread.

All the people mentioned Ignatius of Antioch,Polycarp of Smyrna etc did not teach observance of the law neither did the apostles before them

bahaushe1:


What will be the fate of Moses (pbuh) on day of resurrection and the Prophets that followed since they were not Christians and salvation is only through Christianity?

Mosese is already in heaven.He died during the jewish era which is before the death of Jesus Christ.Judaism was the right religion before the death of christ

Interesting treaties!

I have few questions for you op.


1. Which scripture (s) did people who lived before Jesus (pbuh) use for divine guidance?


2. Why were there no 'God-inspired scriptures ' among the people of other prophets and messengers?

3. Could someone who is not a prophet nor a messenger of God just write a book and ascribe to God and get it accepted? Isn't that suicidal?

4. Isn't it strange that a book written by men, without the input of any prophet or messenger of God, compiled by men, be described as 'infallible words of God'?

PaChukwudi44:


Mosese is already in heaven.He died during the jewish era which is before the death of Jesus Christ.Judaism was the right religion before the death of christ

1. Then why are Judaism and Christianity two separate religions today if Judaism used to be the right religion?


2. If Moses (pbuh) died during Jewish era and therefore saved what about Prophets Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael who lived and died before Jewish era and were neither Jews nor Christians?

Goshen360:


Off course I agree to backing up a sound doctrine with scriptures but not just quoting scriptures but rightly dividing scriptures and being consistent with the truth.

scriptures should produce doctrine not doctrine scripture... Otherwise u will find scripture for any doctrine u wanna build nd become dogmatic about it

bahaushe1:


What will be the fate of Moses (pbuh) on day of resurrection and the Prophets that followed since they were not Christians and salvation is only through Christianity?

God dealt with men of different ages according to the level of revelation of himself He gave to them. In moses time God gave Him the law and he was faithful with it. Abraham only obeyed God, left his ppl and followed God's instruction given to him God counted it for righteousness. God will judge everyone according to the level of revelation of himself to them in that age and time. In our time Jesus is the basis for righteousness, no more no less

PaChukwudi44:
Of course we believe in the OT, we needed to know the origins or pre-cursor of the Christian faith.But the fact still remains that the laws of moses are no longer applicable.I am even yet to see any church which still practises the law.The only portion some thieves sieved out is tithing which is the basis for this thread.

All the people mentioned Ignatius of Antioch,Polycarp of Smyrna etc did not teach observance of the law neither did the apostles before them

the laws are no more a basis for righteousness before God but they are still applicable apart from the ceremonial laws,how about the moral laws? U shall not bow down before graven image etc are dey also done away with?

salvation101:
God dealt with men of different ages according to the level of revelation of himself He gave to them. In moses time God gave Him the law and he was faithful with it. Abraham only obeyed God, left his ppl and followed God's instruction given to him God counted it for righteousness. God will judge everyone according to the level of revelation of himself to them in that age and time. In our time Jesus is the basis for righteousness, no more no less

And what do you say to the fact that Jesus (pbuh) made it clear that he was sent to the Children of Israel?

bahaushe1:


And what do you say to the fact that Jesus (pbuh) made it clear that he was sent to the Children of Israel?

Jesus (pbuh) instrumented his disciples to preach the gospel in Jerusalem, judea, Samaria and every parts of the world unlike ur Mohammed who asked his disciples to kill jews and Christians

salvation101:
Jesus (pbuh) instrumented his disciples to preach the gospel in Jerusalem, judea, Samaria and every parts of the world unlike ur Mohammed who asked his disciples to kill jews and Christians

the paranoid schizophrenics have started again

salvation101:
God dealt with men of different ages according to the level of revelation of himself He gave to them.

Will our ancestors who worship Ifa, Esu, Orunmila, Amadioha, Sango, Ogun etc also make the christian heaven? Remember the gospel actually started getting to Nigeria like say 300 years ago. Does it mean that all our ancestors from year whenever the world started to year 1700 are in the Christian's hell? Remember, they worshipped Esu, etc.

mujahid777:

the paranoid schizophrenics have started again

lol. U tot u could hide ur Islamic antics in the pretence or sincere questions? Its very easy for me to spot u lots cos av had several discuss wit u both on nd offline

^^^^^^^
His asiri has tuud

salvation101:
to correct the notion that its only the new testament that speaks to Christians and the old testament is for the jews alone

The old testament is for Judaism alone, it has nothing to do with the new testament.. The Romans stole it (Tanaka, and called it the old testament) and super glued their bull sh.it story of a dying Man god at the end of the Jewish scriptures..the Jews believed God is not a human being or man Numbers23:19 and making an image of anything in heaven ,on earth or under the waters below the earth was considered idolatry and prohibited by the 2nd commandment. So worshiping a god in the image of a man (something found on earth is a No No for the Jews)
The Jews don't have the idea of God mating with human as part of their belief, it is a Roman/Greek ideology..the Messiah they were exporting is from the shoot of David, meaning he is going to have a human father and mother,(Isaiah 11) and genealogy is only transferred from father to son Numbers1:1,
Messiah is coming to usher in an era if peace, Isaiah captured it by saying" they will beat their swords into plough shares and learn of war no more"
The messiah is not coming to die or be worshipped, worship belongs to God alone and in Judaism God is responsible for both good and evilI Isaiah 45:7,Lamentation 3:38., God is responsible for EVERYTHING.
The gospel stories comes from ancient tales about Marduk, the son of Enki..
Jesus was invented as a mockery to the God of the old testament , BY making God responsible for somethings and making the devil a dual opposite of God. The devil in Judaism is under the control of God and does only what God tells him to do as taught by the story of Job, which surprisingly is the only place where the devil is mentioned in the entire old testament... MyPOV.

Ethiopian Orthodox Christians give more attention to the Old Testament than the new.

sonmvayina:


The old testament is for Judaism alone, it has nothing to do with the new testament.. The Romans stole it (Tanaka, and called it the old testament) and super glued their bull sh.it story of a dying Man god at the end of the Jewish scriptures..the Jews believed God is not a human being or man Numbers23:19 and making an image of anything in heaven ,on earth or under the waters below the earth was considered idolatry and prohibited by the 2nd commandment. So worshiping a god in the image of a man (something found on earth is a No No for the Jews)
The Jews don't have the idea of God mating with human as part of their belief, it is a Roman/Greek ideology..the Messiah they were exporting is from the shoot of David, meaning he is going to have a human father and mother,(Isaiah 11) and genealogy is only transferred from father to son Numbers1:1,
Messiah is coming to usher in an era if peace, Isaiah captured it by saying" they will beat their swords into plough shares and learn of war no more"
The messiah is not coming to die or be worshipped, worship belongs to God alone and in Judaism God is responsible for both good and evilI Isaiah 45:7,Lamentation 3:38., God is responsible for EVERYTHING.
The gospel stories comes from ancient tales about Marduk, the son of Enki..
Jesus was invented as a mockery to the God of the old testament , BY making God responsible for somethings and making the devil a dual opposite of God. The devil in Judaism is under the control of God and does only what God tells him to do as taught by the story of Job, which surprisingly is the only place where the devil is mentioned in the entire old testament... MyPOV.

how you spent so much time compiling this ur crap baffles me... The entire old testament pointed to Jesus starting from the time God promised eve dat her seed will bruise the head of the serpent