NiyiOmoIyunade:
Zeestone and I have this argument with every installation we do together.

He argues that all neutral is common even within the inverter internal circuitry and this is true.

Again, I note that the NEC retained the common neutral standard for backward compatibility though they do not encourage it - they recommend that the neutral bus/ wire be at least equal to or twice the size of the live wires.

When I look at the average household electrical distribution panel, one sees that all the neutral wires terminate on one bus bar and same for the earth/ground wires - so I have been forced to grudgingly accept his old-school method.

Its true . . the average DB has a single (or like in my case, dual bus bars) where all neutral wires terminate . .
But it would be bad practice to wire all sockets and switches in the house in a common neutral loop
and stretch one single piece of wire to the DB / / / heck; nobody does that . .
All sockets and switches have individual neutral lines stretched out to the DB
and I guess you know why already.

mank1234:
Thanks my man. This is exactly what I laboured to explain to makavele all through last night.
[b]He refused to accept that load [/b]can be used to divert current that otherwise would have ended up charging the battery above its optimum charging current.

Oya, I have accepted, lets move on

Zeestone and I have this argument with every installation we do together.

He argues that all neutral is common even within the inverter internal circuitry and this is true.

Again, I note that the NEC retained the common neutral standard for backward compatibility though they do not encourage it - they recommend that the neutral bus/ wire be at least equal to or twice the size of the live wires.

When I look at the average household electrical distribution panel, one sees that all the neutral wires terminate on one bus bar and same for the earth/ground wires - so I have been forced to grudgingly accept his old-school method.

That said if one breaks both the live and neutral wires with a double pole breaker, then we can ensure that anything on the load side of the breaker is electrically isolated in the event of a breaker trip - this is regardless of whether the neutrals are common at source or not.

makavele:


it is always a safer option to have dedicated lines in electricity ...
the only draw-back is cost of wiring . .

zeestone99 take note !! you & your unrelenting love for common wiring

NiyiOmoIyunade:
House I need help. I have a diagnostics lab I support where the incoming voltage from the mains is routinely between 240v and 250v (the shopping complex has a dedicated and lightly loaded transformer).

Now we all know lab equipment generally have low overvoltage tolerance so the equipment gets hot or hums at 240v.

How can I reliably step down 240v to say 210 - 220v max? Most stabilizers I know will simply pass through 240v without stepping it down at all.

Right now the lab is getting by by isolating the mains (putting changeover in neutral) when they want to run the equipment and running off either inverter at 230v output or Gen at 217 - 222v output

Solutions and ideas please - if you know any stabilisers or other equipment that can cap output voltage at 220v I would appreciate it.

1. Servo stabilizer
2. Online ups
3. Inverter with AVR
Any of these will solve the problem
The equipment is how many watts? I have 500w/12v with AVR output is 220v from 145v
Get this ups and rest. You can even see it in the dust bin and buy cheap or get a new

JUO:

1. Servo stabilizer
2. Online ups
3. Inverter with AVR
Any of these will solve the problem
The equipment is how many watts? I have 500w/12v with AVR output is 220v from 145v

I easily regulate my servo stab O/P variable to my choice.Its more advisable to use trusted servo stabilizers on sensitive equipments. Online ups also have a reliable transfer time-steady output ! The only issue with the above sampled APC ups is that it auto rejects/selects generator with flickering frequency... Cheers

makavele:


Even with the same wiring, same temp . . . we would get different results .. you know why already
thats why i said its theoritical .. only meant as guidelines .
best believe, pranil put it to rest

You'll get different result because of differences in internal resistance, differences in age etc and not because the underlining theories are wrong.

Since you don't believe in theories(battery test result), why then do you look at battery data sheet when researching about a battery to buy?

I'll not respond to this anymore; not that you're right but so that the sanctity of this wonderful thread is maintained.

mank1234:


You'll get different result because of differences in internal resistance, differences in age etc and not because the underlining theories are wrong.

Since you don't believe in theories(battery test result), why then do you look at battery data sheet when researching about a battery to buy?

I'll not respond to this anymore; not that you're right but so that the sanctity of this wonderful thread is maintained.

Mankinde, let me rest and if you're an adept reader;
you would know that most seasoned installers will tell you to throw away the battery spec sheet.

And why would they do that?

makavele:


Mankinde, let me rest and if you're an adept reader;
you would know that most seasoned installers will tell you to throw away the battery spec sheet.

dejidotun2000:
And why would they do that?

I guess he was speaking of low quality Chinese batteries or rebranded battery versions . Richmond sent pics of few jobs he cleaned up some months ago and we still see so many funny installers roaming the streets of Lagos as a case study . I have so many electricians in my hood admiring solar jobs and trying to learn intricacies in inverter - solar installation the wrong way tho !

dejidotun2000:
And why would they do that?

Cos those are factory-based under STC which don't apply to real life . . .
Take for example, a battery spec sheet might tell you to charge your battery to 14.1V for optimum performance
And you might be living where you do not have enough sun-hours to float your battery.
What do you do? Increase bulk charge to say, 14.6 and let it smoke . . .
** and for those who might want to argue, it's called "max smoke" in the solar world & perfectly safe***
By the time the sun goes down; you would be closer to 100% SOC
If you seem to be smoking too much, reduce to 14.4 and try again . .
no battery spec sheet will tell you this.
so forget what the spec sheets say, they are theoritical and meant as guides
throw it away, and face real conditions applicable to you and you only.

kiekie1:


I guess he was speaking of low quality Chinese batteries or rebranded battery versions !

lol but no !

kiekie1:


I guess he was speaking of low quality Chinese batteries or rebranded battery versions . Richmond sent pics of few jobs he cleaned up some months ago and we still see so many funny installers roaming the streets of Lagos as a case study . I have so many electricians in my hood admiring solar jobs and trying to learn intricacies in inverter - solar installation the wrong way tho !

Speaking of Richmon74...He has been off grid (off the Forum) for quite a while

makavele:


lol but no !

I have confirmed you as a real "practical man" abinitio . I think i get where you are coming from but theoretical approach acts a a guideline to practical approach and that's solely the basics k.. Manuals are meant to be studied in any situation , guess you meant they are thrown away because pro-installers already know about the said product. I also know all batteries or inverters ain't same. We have disparity between gel-agm-flooded batteries likewise some inverters which don't last long when you install with "common neutral" like old model Cyber power etc...

Jamzig1:

Speaking of Richmon74...He has been off grid (off the Forum) for quite a while

Yes Sir, guess he has his reasons .. We seldomly see down here in Lagos .. He drove pass me on few occasions and he is fine

Data sheets give you values other than at STC.

makavele:


Cos those are factory-based under STC which don't apply to real life . . .
Take for example, a battery spec sheet might tell you to charge your battery to 14.1V for optimum performance
And you might be living where you do not have enough sun-hours to float your battery.
What do you do? Increase bulk charge to say, 14.6 and let it smoke . . .
** and for those who might want to argue, it's called "max smoke" in the solar world & perfectly safe***
By the time the sun goes down; you would be closer to 100% SOC
If you seem to be smoking too much, reduce to 14.4 and try again . .
no battery spec sheet will tell you this.
so forget what the spec sheets say, they are theoritical and meant as guides
throw it away, and face real conditions applicable to you and you only.

kiekie1:


I have confirmed you as a real "practical man" abinitio . I think i get where you are coming from but theoretical approach acts a a guideline to practical approach and that's solely the basics k.. Manuals are meant to be studied in any situation , guess you meant they are thrown away because they already know about the said product as I know all batteries or inverters ain't same .. We have disparity between gel-agm-flooded batteries likewise some inverters which don't last long when you install with "common neutral" like old model Cyber power etc...

When I meant "throw away" I believe he understood what I meant. A figure of speech, which means don't depend and/or
put all your life on a manual; especially for items like batteries, where the results will vary according to user approach. You dig?
And your italicized use of the phrase "practical man"; don't know if I should take it as a compliment or a sub.

In the real practical sense of it, I had posted an image days back and had related with zeestone99 . . . I had lightening strike my house
and oh yes, it took out my external battery charger with it and killed my inverter charging functionality (don't preach to me about a lightening arrestor,, i know i know ).... . Inverter was outputing 0.23Amps to charge a depleted battery. days later, I single-handedly brought it back to life.
How i did it, remains to be desired !!!

makavele:


When I meant "throw away" I believe he understood what I meant. A figure of speech, which means don't depend and/or
put all your life on a manual; especially for items like batteries, where the results will vary according to user approach. You dig?
And your italicized use of the phrase "practical man"; don't know if I should take it as a compliment or a sub.

In the real practical sense of it, I had posted an image days back and had related with zeestone99 . . . I had lightening strike my house
and oh yes, it took out my external battery charger with it and killed my inverter charging functionality . . Inverter was outputing 0.23Amps to charge a deplete battery. And I single-handedly brought it back to life.
How i did it, remains to be desired !!!

That's a compliment .. Good to know you personally revived your system from surge , try do a proper grounding and if possible , get an anti surge device within 20-50k interval pending on efficiency-make to avoid expensive futuristic damages. Cheers !

kiekie1:


That's a compliment .. Good to know you personally revived your system from surge , try do a proper grounding and if possible , get an anti surge device within 20-50k interval pending on efficiency-make . Cheers !

Thanks for the compliment, sir !!!

pranil:


all depends on how the circuit is wired is the inverter and charge controller paralleled before connecting to battery or both are connected to battery

see video of my installation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ7uu3_dLAc
where you can clearly see the battery on the float with minimal current but PV charger( victron CC) still producing and supplying load
The DC system in the video is ipower charge controller/inverter also contributing 250 watts for the load along with Victron charge controller

As you can see both CC are connected to 2.5 KW each but they are contributing just enough power to supply load while keeping batteries floating with out cooking the battries

Gentlemen The battery terminals work like a DC busbar unless there is a real busbar. All this current exchange happens only in the terminals and only excess current ( +ve) goes INSIDE the battery for chemistry to charge the battery or if the load is higher than battery excess current is generated by chemistry and delivered to the load in addition to CC current

As long as the CC is maintaining higher voltage than battery the entire current will go to the load .


Now you can see the reason for Hybrid inverters like ipower/zinnox/gennex where the current going to the battery is limited by the inverter but Current produced by the CC can be directly consumed by the load as the busbar is formed inside the inverter.
At one time i was running 400 AH bank ( max 40 amp charge setting) with 5 KW panels without any issues. Any excess load was automatically supplied by PV powe

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Zeestone and I have this argument with every installation we do together.

He argues that all neutral is common even within the inverter internal circuitry and this is true.

Again, I note that the NEC retained the common neutral standard for backward compatibility though they do not encourage it - they recommend that the neutral bus/ wire be at least equal to or twice the size of the live wires.

When I look at the average household electrical distribution panel, one sees that all the neutral wires terminate on one bus bar and same for the earth/ground wires - so I have been forced to grudgingly accept his old-school method.

Even the almighty tri star mppt 60 we both use, use common neutral for pv n ba3 we ll leave the case for other oga's @ d top to shed more light.

kiekie1:


That's a compliment .. Good to know you personally revived your system from surge , try do a proper grounding and if possible , get an anti surge device within 20-50k interval pending on efficiency-make to avoid expensive futuristic damages. Cheers !

So u knw he's Mr practical, and as far as he(my client) and I are concerned, he has no solar setup yet, the lil he installed was to get familiar with the system, hw it works, do's n don't... His main setup wud b installed this week with all necessary equipment in place. Cheers

Zeestone9:


Even the almighty tri star mppt 60 we both use, use common neutral for pv n ba3 we ll leave the case for other oga's @ d top to shed more light.

while the epever uses common live . .
if u go do your neutral tricks here; u don buy market be that oo; lol

makavele:


while the epever uses common live . .
if u go do your neutral tricks here; u don buy market be that oo; lol

jst ring me 4 supplies lol

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[quote author=Chuckdee post=62641337



The bolded is soo wrong and misleading. Please how do you then explain how people in advanced countries like US and Europe that are on reliable grid that almost never goes down but have Solar setups without a single battery bank and yet make use of energy generated by those panels??... lets not BOLDLY mislead newbies that come to this thread to learn [/quote]

ohh u can use solar panels without battery....pls explain o....what happens at night?...or the system is used in conuction with public power supply, wch kicks in when cloud covers the sn/at night?

@niyiomo , pls this your soeur battery charger, am interested in it. can you confirm the specs, or where i can buy it?

earthrealm:
ohh u can use solar panels without battery....pls explain o...

Grid-tie/true hybrid inverters

[quote author=earthrealm post=62673133][/quote]

Suoer smart battery charger which I also use is the 12v 50a blue color type... Works very well tho !

kiekie1:


Suder mart battery charger which I also use is the 12v 50a blue color type... Works very well tho !

No be only suder . . . na suya !!!

Bros, Suoer !!!

makavele:


No be only suder . . . na suya !!!

Bros, Suoer !!!

Yes I wrote suoer initially but most call it suder ... Its all good. I displayed a visible pic of the Chinese battery charger above ! Cheers

Selling my used Sukam 24v, 1.5kva inverter for 35k.

Call 08171942851.

Reason for sale, upgrade!!