Goshen360:


Study or Slowly assimilate Hebrews 7 but emphasis on verses 5, 16 and 18....put these in context. When you read verse 18, pause and ask the question what commandment is he talking about?

I studied it but it didn't say anything of such. The holy spirit teaches, ask him if what asuustrike said is correct

asuustrike2009:

The case of that thief was he repented. If you don't repent from robbing God then you're heading to hell

More like how tithers are being threatened?

asuustrike2009:

I studied it but it didn't say anything of such. The holy spirit teaches, ask him if what asuustrike said is correct

Smh....you really didn't get it? 3 "commandments" mentioned in that chapter....link them together and you'll understand. Do I have to say school you?

Goshen360:


Smh....you really didn't get it? 3 "commandments" mentioned in that chapter....link them together and you'll understand. Do I have to say school you?

Did the Bible say we shouldn't pay tithe? How can you use Hebrew 7 to end to validate a point were nothing of such was clearly stated there

Goshen360:


More like how tithers are being threatened?

No the Bible expressly say so in mal 3:8-10 and 1 cor 6:9-10

asuustrike2009:

No the Bible expressly say so in mal 3:8-10 and 1 cor 6:9-10

What is meant in 1 cor. 6.9-10 is NOT SAME AS what is said in Malachi 3.3-10

asuustrike2009:

Did the Bible say we shouldn't pay tithe? How can you use Hebrew 7 to end to validate a point were nothing of such was clearly stated there

Ok.....give me time and lemme put it together for you.

Vs 5....commandment to take tithe was GIVEN TO LEVITES ONLY....right?

Vs 16...... Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, .....

Vs 18.....

18For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 19For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 20And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

You can argue that....I'm not making this up but showing you scripture context....

What commandment is vs 18 talking about? well, go back to the context because he already mentioned TWO "commandments" GOING BEFORE....those are the commandment disannulling ACCORDINGTO THE LAW

petra1:


The scripture you quoted has to do with vows made for saints in Jerusalem during the economic crisis .
........
This was just a special offering raised for a specific project . To gather money for saints in Jerusalem
............
As explained above that was for a specific project just like under the law. God gave the parallel principle of tithe for the Church .

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Elhven so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

The New Testament had different occasions when Christians gave. The Apostles gave INSTRUCTIONS at different times on giving.

NOT ONCE did the issue of tithes or mandatory giving in any other form come up or was mentioned. If there were no mentions of giving at all then it may be possible to assume that the Christian could fall back on any old system. But giving was mentioned in different places. Direction as to how give was also given.

In Galatians 2:10 Paul said: "All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along." How come when the other Apostles raised this with Paul he never once wrote, in all he wrote about raising money and administering it either for the poor or others, about tithing?

It should be rather strange that in the midst of instructions about raising money whether for 'special projects' like you put it or for " saints in Jerusalem during the economic crisis" like you said, no mention of "TITHES" came up at all. Not once!

The only conclusion that a Bible student can come to is that we have sufficient information in the New Testament which shows that the Christian is not obligated to pay tithe.

BTW, 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 talks about the administration of what is received from givers NOT about HOW TO GIVE. Please apply scriptures properly.

Goshen360:


What is meant in 1 cor. 6.9-10 is NOT SAME AS what is said in Malachi 3.3-10

Didn't you read were thieves were among those who wouldn't inherit the kingdom of God? Who's a thief if not a robber as seen in Mal 3:8?.

Goshen360:


Ok.....give me time and lemme put it together for you.

Vs 5....commandment to take tithe was GIVEN TO LEVITES ONLY....right?

Vs 16...... Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, .....

Vs 18.....

18For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 19For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 20And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

You can argue that....I'm not making this up but showing you scripture context....

What commandment is vs 18 talking about? well, go back to the context because he already mentioned TWO "commandments" GOING BEFORE....those are the commandment disannulling ACCORDINGTO THE LAW

You still haven't answer the question. You still beating around the bush with this your grace sermon. Show me were exactly was it stated in the book of Hebrews that we shouldn't pay tithe? You haven't pointed out a verse that say we shouldn't pay so why beat around the bush and say tithe isn't meant for Christians by claiming grace

plainbibletruth:


The New Testament had different occasions when Christians gave. The Apostles gave INSTRUCTIONS at different times on giving.

Kindly back it up with scripture . I’m only aware of the major project of raising money for saints in Judea.

NOT ONCE did the issue of tithes or mandatory giving in any other form come up or was mentioned. If there were no mentions of giving at all then it may be possible to assume that the Christian could fall back on any old system. But giving was mentioned in different places. Direction as to how give was also given.

Why will they be raising issues about tithe when there was never a scripture that condemns it . Same as incest or offering . It’s a life style . Maybe I was wrong but the only giving project in the epistles that I’m aware of was collection for saints . Of course I know that there would be other giving not stated

In Galatians 2:10 Paul said: "All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along." How come when the other Apostles raised this with Paul he never once wrote, in all he wrote about raising money and administering it either for the poor or others, about tithing?

How come they didn’t tell him about fornicatuon and adultery ? Prayer and fasting ? Does it mean they are not important . The fact that such weren’t mentioned nullifies them ? We are trying to condemn tithe on the ground of being legalistic we are doing the same by being legalistic in argument Demanding irrelevant comas and semi colons .Somebody will soon say water baptism is legality , inward change is what counts .or Going to church is legality

It should be rather strange that in the midst of instructions about raising money whether for 'special projects' like you put it or for " saints in Jerusalem during the economic crisis" like you said, no mention of "TITHES" came up at all. Not once!

It shouldn’t be a ground . There are many things that didn’t show up ether . The kingdom of God is still one and As long they are not shadow that is fulfilled in christ the principle applies . There is only one scripture . The Torah . That’s what the early church had.. Why would paul be quoting the law for the church in his epistle . Have you asked ?

The only conclusion that a Bible student can come to is that we have sufficient information in the New Testament which shows that the Christian is not obligated to pay tithe

There is no scripture to back this claim . We could have said the church can marry siblings . If we keep taking advantage of silent areas. Supposing such were mentioned in some missing manuscript ? Only the shadows of christ were done away .

BTW, 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 talks about the administration of what is received from givers NOT about HOW TO GIVE. Please apply scriptures properly.

The giving the Bible teaches us is tithes and offerings which are given in worship of God for the work of Ministry . There is no replacement for them ever mentioned inscriptures

Goshen360:


Ok.....give me time and lemme put it together for you.

Vs 5....commandment to take tithe was GIVEN TO LEVITES ONLY....right?

Vs 16...... Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, .....

Vs 18.....

18For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 19For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 20And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

You can argue that....I'm not making this up but showing you scripture context....

What commandment is vs 18 talking about? well, go back to the context because he already mentioned TWO "commandments" GOING BEFORE....those are the commandment disannulling ACCORDINGTO THE LAW

Romans 7:12
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 7:14
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


There is difference between the law as an institution and the content of the law . There are content done away in christ and there are content that are spiritual principles .

asuustrike2009:

Did the Bible say we shouldn't pay tithe? How can you use Hebrew 7 to end to validate a point were nothing of such was clearly stated there

The message of Hebrew 7 is simple . To let us know that the priest hood of christ is higher than levitical priesthood . Priesthood of christ is in the order of Melchizedek who initiated tithing . And it unending priesthood . Eternal priesthood . Tithing priesthood .

petra1:


Romans 7:12
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 7:14
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


There is difference between the law as an institution and the content of the law . There are content done away in christ and there are content that are spiritual principles .

Smh....do you people just enjoy just quoting scriptures or what? do you ask the holy spirit questions when you study scriptures?

What those scriptures mean? The law is holy....does it make you or us holy? The law is spiritual....does it make you or us spiritual? You have to question what you read in order to understand it. Read from verse 1 and see how Paul completely dismissed the law.

petra1:


The message of Hebrew 7 is simple . To let us know that the priest hood of christ is higher than levitical priesthood . Priesthood of christ is in the order of Melchizedek who initiated tithing . And it unending priesthood . Eternal priesthood . Tithing priesthood .

smh

asuustrike2009:

You still haven't answer the question. You still beating around the bush with this your grace sermon. Show me were exactly was it stated in the book of Hebrews that we shouldn't pay tithe? You haven't pointed out a verse that say we shouldn't pay so why beat around the bush and say tithe isn't meant for Christians by claiming grace

I have shown you but your greed won't let you see it. Follow the 3 commandment mentioned in the same conteXT and when reading vs 18.....ask yourself what commandment is he talking about.

Goshen360:


I have shown you but your greed won't let you see it. Follow the 3 commandment mentioned in the same conteXT and when reading vs 18.....ask yourself what commandment is he talking about.

Greed indeed! Do I look like someone who needs tithe and offerings Or I be pastor?. Ask Jesus himself to teach you because you're misleading many persons. The verse you quoted has no standing with tithe at all.You can even point out a verse from the Bible that outrightly condemned tithe yet yet you beat around the bush.

petra1:


The message of Hebrew 7 is simple . To let us know that the priest hood of christ is higher than levitical priesthood . Priesthood of christ is in the order of Melchizedek who initiated tithing . And it unending priesthood . Eternal priesthood . Tithing priesthood .

Of course I know very well. Those against tithing haven't being to point a single verse were it stated we shouldn't pay. They just assume things

Goshen360:


Smh....do you people just enjoy just quoting scriptures or what? do you ask the holy spirit questions when you study scriptures?

What those scriptures mean? The law is holy....does it make you or us holy? The law is spiritual....does it make you or us spiritual? You have to question what you read in order to understand it. Read from verse 1 and see how Paul completely dismissed the law.

He can't dismiss the law for its content . You can only dismiss the law on the ground of righteousness and justification. the law isn powerless to regenerate . But the law reveals the mind of God on what is right and wrong. without the knowledge of the law we will not know what offend God. sin is transgression of the law of God. Paul would not have a bases to condemn homosexuality if it were not spelt out in the law. we should not demonise the law of God.every area the law is condemned it has to do with the wrong use to be made righteous by it

petra1:

Kindly back it up with scripture . I’m only aware of the major project of raising money for saints in Judea.

Why will they be raising issues about tithe when there was never a scripture that condemns it . Same as incest or offering . It’s a life style . Maybe I was wrong but the only giving project in the epistles that I’m aware of was collection for saints . Of course I know that there would be other giving not stated

How come they didn’t tell him about fornicatuon and adultery ? Prayer and fasting ? Does it mean they are not important . The fact that such weren’t mentioned nullifies them ? We are trying to condemn tithe on the ground of being legalistic we are doing the same by being legalistic in argument Demanding irrelevant comas and semi colons .Somebody will soon say water baptism is legality , inward change is what counts .or Going to church is legality

It shouldn’t be a ground . There are many things that didn’t show up ether . The kingdom of God is still one and As long they are not shadow that is fulfilled in christ the principle applies . There is only one scripture . The Torah . That’s what the early church had.. Why would paul be quoting the law for the church in his epistle . Have you asked ?

There is no scripture to back this claim . We could have said the church can marry siblings . If we keep taking advantage of silent areas. Supposing such were mentioned in some missing manuscript ? Only the shadows of christ were done away .

The giving the Bible teaches us is tithes and offerings which are given in worship of God for the work of Ministry . There is no replacement for them ever mentioned inscriptures

I want to believe that even if you guys BLIND your eyes to the TRUTH, others who are reading will have the eyes of their understanding open.

You just keep quoting Bible verses one after the other without showing how they relate to tithing.

I pointed out to you that, 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 talks about the administration of what is received from givers and NOT about HOW TO GIVE and that you apply scriptures properly.

That's one such passages you just quote as if quoting a scripture portion amounts to it being relevant.

You make claims you haven't been able to prove. Can you show proof of this from scripture:

"There are content done away in christ and there are content that are spiritual principles."

particularly the 'spiritual principles' thing?

The priesthood of Christ is not the priesthood of Melchizedek. The priesthood of Christ is not the CONTINUATION of that of Melchizedek. The priesthood of Christ stands alone as superior and over and above every other priesthood that has ever existed. Take time to STUDY the book of Hebrews CAREFULLY.

I will back up my claim on NT giving later today.
Did the NT not talk about prayer, sexual immorality, etc? Common, man!
The Kingdom of God is one ONLY to the extent that the ruler is the same. But the system of administration and some other details changed.
For example, was every believer a priest under the Mosaic Law? Is every believer a priest under the Church Age?

When you now begin to talk of MISSING MANUSCRIPTS then I'm AFRAID you're treading on VERY SLIPPERY GROUNDS! I do hope you know that.

Could it be that some anti-tithers made those manuscripts disappear? Lol!!
Was it because those manuscripts contained more direct statements about tithing? Missing manuscripts indeed!

plainbibletruth:


You just keep quoting Bible verses one after the other without showing how they relate to tithing.

How can you say that? Any open EYED person should see the relationship except deliberately ignored or seeing from different color

I pointed out to you that, 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 talks about the administration of what is received from givers and NOT about HOW TO GIVE and that you apply scriptures properly.

Jesus instructed Paul that the way the priests receive sustainsnce should be the way ministers should be sustained . How did the priests get welfare . Tithes and offering

That's one such passages you just quote as if quoting a scripture portion amounts to it being relevant.

VERY DID

particularly the 'spiritual principles' thing?

Why would Paul quote the law for saints

The priesthood of Christ is not the priesthood of Melchizedek. The priesthood of Christ is not the CONTINUATION of that of Melchizedek. The priesthood of Christ stands alone as superior and over and above every other priesthood that has ever existed. Take time to STUDY the book of Hebrews CAREFULLY

Prove it . Christ dies t have his own order . Christ is priest in the order of Melchizedek. Many bible scholars even believe and teach that Christ was Melchizedek.The encounter with Abraham was seen as one of the christophany of the Old Testament

Did the NT not talk about prayer, sexual immorality, etc? Common, man!

Did the NT not talk about minister welfare just like the Old Testament parallel etc common man!

You're looking for the word tithe , I'm looking fir the word incest . On what ground can you counsel a brother not to marry his younger sister ?

For example, was every believer a priest under the Mosaic Law? Is every believer a priest under the Church Age?

It's not a New teaching . He was only quoting from the law . These are eternal principles

Exodus 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

When you now begin to talk of MISSING MANUSCRIPTS then I'm AFRAID you're treading on VERY SLIPPERY GROUNDS! I do hope you know that.

I agree . But you know many manuscripts are minsding . Just supposing a manuscript is found and such is there What will you say . But you're right let's make do with what is available .

Could it be that some anti-tithers made those manuscripts disappear? Lol!!

It's part of Collateral Damage . Let's forget I said it

petra1:

...
Jesus instructed Paul that the way the priests receive sustainsnce should be the way ministers should be sustained . How did the priests get welfare . Tithes and offering
...
Why would Paul quote the law for saints

Prove it . Christ dies t have his own order . Christ is priest in the order of Melchizedek. Many bible scholars even believe and teach that Christ was Melchizedek.The encounter with Abraham was seen as one of the christophany of the Old Testament

Did the NT not talk about minister welfare just like the Old Testament parallel etc common man!

You're looking for the word tithe , I'm looking fir the word incest . On what ground can you counsel a brother not to marry his younger sister ?

It's not a New teaching . He was only quoting from the law . These are eternal principles

Exodus 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.


I agree . But you know many manuscripts are minsding . Just supposing a manuscript is found and such is there What will you say . But you're right let's make do with what is available .

It's part of Collateral Damage . Let's forget I said it

The Levitical priests were sustained by the system put in place for them. Today's ministers are to be sustained by HOW God wants them to be taken care of: And obligatory TITHING is not one of them.

........ one in the manner of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed to the order of Aaron? HEBREWS 7:11 AMP

And this becomes even more evident if another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, HEBREWS 7:15 AMP

"Manner of" , "likeness of" means same kind; like.

Just as Melchizedek was a king-priest Jesus Christ is a king-priest. A category higher than stand-alone priesthood or kingship that still depends on a priest.

When Jesus accomplished his work he became "much superior to angels". Jesus's work qualified him to enter the "most holy place". It was after this that the "necessity of a change in the Law came about. It was after this that "a better covenant" came.

All these make Jesus' ministry different, separate and SUPERIOR to anything including Melchizedek's ministry.

Could every believer under the Mosaic Law offer sacrifice to God directly?
Can any Christian approach the throne of grace directly today?

Again, STUDY the book of Hebrews CAREFULLY.

Await my NT giving inputs.

How Come the Apostles Missed Out TITHING?!

1.Understanding Scripture involves looking into it ‘line upon line’, ‘precept upon precept’ (Isaiah 28:10).

2.Therefore, in many instances, picking a single verse or a portion of a verse to build doctrine on can lead to a faulty theology.

3.The issue of tithing today basically is whether the NT believer is still under a previous requirement that was put in place by God before the Law or even that under the Mosaic Law.

4.When God brought in the Mosaic Law, that Law became what was operational. It became the manual which God now expected ANYONE who believes in him to follow.

5.If anyone DECIDED that he was going to follow the system (i.e. God’s system) for a previous time before the Law was put in place, the mere fact that it was God’s system would not make it right for him to do so.
For example: Before the priesthood of the Levites, God had other kinds of priesthood in place. But when God put in place the Levitical priesthood, no one, NOT EVEN KINGS, had the right to decide to do what they wanted. Why? The LAW had changed!
Where kings chose to go against God’s new order they were disciplined! Scripture is there for all to see this.

6.When anything in the ‘old’ is still included in the ‘new’ then it is still VALID for those under the new.

7.When anything in the ‘old is set aside in the ‘new’ then it is INVALID under the new.

8.When the church was put in place, it became God’s new system for anyone who believes in him. IT REPLACED THE MOSAIC LAW!

9.When the early Christians faced the DILEMMA concerning whether Christians were still to follow the Mosaic Law (which had itself REPLACED everything before it) the HOLY SPIRIT ruled that they were not. (Acts 15).

10.In fact, one of the things mentioned by Apostle Peter was “Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?” (Acts 15:10).

11.The Christian was not to be under any “YOKE”. No more ’forced’ system.

12.The Christian is a ‘new creation’. The Christian is ‘IN CHRIST’. The Christian belong to a ‘better covenant’ based on ‘better promises’. No putting of ‘New Wine’ into old ‘wineskin’.

13.Church-age doctrines or teachings were NOT KNOWN to those of the past. They belong to the ‘many more’ things that Jesus said he would, through the Holy Spirit, teach the Apostles.

14.Therefore, whatever the Apostles now gave as ‘Law’ became what was now binding on the Christian. Whatever they say became binding. Whatever they say the Christian was freed from or loosed from became so.

15.When the Christian was ‘loosed’ from the Mosaic Law as per Acts 15, the Christian was freed from any obligation to go by the Law.

16.Any ‘new’ Law, which may include things from the ‘old’ is now what becomes binding on the Christian. The sovereignty of God determines
what in the ‘old’ is still needed under the ‘new’.

17.From all these, what we can take away is that it is ONLY what the Apostles, by the Holy Spirit, gave as the GIVING SYSTEM for the church that stands. Any other thing is a DEVIATION from the norm.

18.Christians gave money in Acts 4: 32-37. No tithing was mentioned. Rather it was by free choice.
Peter reinforced the fact that the believer’s possession and money was his to do with as he pleased in Acts 5:4.
When a need AROSE IN Acts 6 there was no mention of tithe.
When the issue of a prediction of famine came up in Acts 11 there was no mention of tithe.
When in Acts 20: 27 Paul said he declared the whole will or counsel of God to the Ephesians elders it did NOT include tithing even though he mentioned how he financed his ministry and talked about giving and receiving.
In Romans 15 when the issue of giving was mentioned as it affected Jew-Gentile believers no tithing was mentioned.
In 1 Corinthians 16, when Paul talked about “the collection for God’s people” NOTHING about tithing was in his instructions about how the money was TO BE RAISED.
No tithing was mentioned by Paul when it came to the issue of GIVING in 2 Corinthians 9. The emphasis as had been from Peter’s encounter with Ananias and Sapphira was “not reluctantly or under compulsion”.
In Galatians 6:9 where Paul talked about doing good and reaping a harvest, NOTHING about tithing is mentioned.
In Philippians Paul talks about “the matter of giving and receiving” and NO tithe was mentioned.

19.On and on in Paul’s admonitions about money, wealth, giving and receiving NOT ONCE was tithe mentioned.
Those who had were encouraged to be “generous and willing to share” (1 Timothy 6:18). He says that in that way they will “lay up treasures for themselves …. (in) the coming age” (1 Timothy 6:19).
How come Paul did not quickly put in TITHES here as a means to eternal treasures?

20.The writer of Hebrews admonished sharing with others but did not include TITHES. (Hebrews 13:16).

21.James talks about the rich and the poor. He talks about matching FAITH with WORKS. No tithe was mentioned.

22.Did ALL these Apostles miss out something? Did they fail us in omitting something so ‘life changing’, ‘eternal principle’, ‘principle of faith’, ‘open heaven’, etc, etc.?

23.The plain truth is ‘NO, they did not’. They gave us the whole counsel of God regarding the spiritual life for the believer of the Church-age.

24.God established the NEW COVENANT IN CHRIST. He sovereignly determined the things from the ‘old’ (both pre-law or under the Law) to include. What he didn’t put in the ‘new’ were EXCLUDED or became SECONDARY. What God deemed fit to include in the ‘New’, the Apostles CLEARLY communicated to us. We need not be ‘gnostics’ or ‘esoteric’ to understand or figure out these things.

25.The conclusion is simple:
TITHING IS NO WHERE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT!

plainbibletruth:


The Levitical priests were sustained by the system put in place for them. Today's ministers are to be sustained by HOW God wants them to be taken care of: And obligatory TITHING is not one of them

Did the Bible say so ? There was already a pattern . And Jesus instructed the church to apply it . This was on earth ever before the law came


.

....... one in the manner of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed to the order of Aaron? HEBREWS 7:11 AMP

And this becomes even more evident if another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, HEBREWS 7:15 AMP

"Manner of" , "likeness of" means same kind; like.

Just as Melchizedek was a king-priest Jesus Christ is a king-priest. A category higher than stand-alone priesthood or kingship that still depends on a priest.

When Jesus accomplished his work he became "much superior to angels". Jesus's work qualified him to enter the "most holy place". It was after this that the "necessity of a change in the Law came about. It was after this that "a better covenant" came

All these make Jesus' ministry different, separate and SUPERIOR to anything including Melchizedek's ministry.

If God wanted to say Jesus was greater than Melchizedek, he would have said it . But the height if his priest hood is to be in the ORDER of Melchizedek. Let's leave it as Scripture puts it .

Hebrews 5:6 (Message)
In another place God declares, "You're a priest forever in the royal order of Melchizedek."

Could every believer under the Mosaic Law offer sacrifice to God directly?

Yes they could . It depends on what kind of sacrifice

Can any Christian approach the throne of grace directly today?

Yes . But God still have ministers who could bless Gods people . And we also have a high priest who intercede for us .

Hebrews 5:10-11 (KJV)
Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

Are you aware Melchizedek is greater than Abraham ? Jesus is seed of Abraham

Hebrews 7:6-7 (AMP)
But this person who has not their Levitical ancestry received tithes from Abraham [himself] and blessed him who possessed the promises [of God].
Yet it is beyond all contradiction that it is the lesser person who is blessed by the greater one.

petra1:

Did the Bible say so ? There was already a pattern . And Jesus instructed the church to apply it . This was on earth ever before the law came

Jesus instructed the church to apply what? Where did he instruct the church? Please clarify.

petra1:

If God wanted to say Jesus was greater than Melchizedek, he would have said it . But the height if his priest hood is to be in the ORDER of Melchizedek. Let's leave it as Scripture puts it .

Hey! What is the book of Hebrews all about?
On what basis did Jesus get the high status he attained as per the book of Hebrews?
Did Melchizedek fulfil the same basis?

petra1:

Are you aware Melchizedek is greater than Abraham ? Jesus is seed of Abraham

Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am".
So, what is your point here?

Before we drift off-course, remember the NT has given us a fair KNOWLEDGE of how the early church operated.

NOT ONCE in all these books was TITHING a COMMAND or ADVISE to the Christian.

If now want to HIDE UNDER 'eternal principle' or whatever to justify changing how tithing was prescribed in the Old Covenant to MONETARY TITHING or as muttleyLaff said into "ecclesiastical tithe", it should occur to you, asuustrike2009 and your other guys that something is not quite right. In fact, that something is wrong.

You guys are just the ones coming up with a new TAXATION system for the church.

I've given you book after book in the NT where GIVING and its administration were mentioned and NOT ONCE was tithing brought up.

I ask you again: Did ALL these Apostles miss out something? Did they fail us in omitting something so ‘life changing’, ‘eternal principle’, ‘principle of faith’, ‘open heaven’, etc, etc.?

Petra1, the LAW has changed!

The new LAW was a 'mystery (but) now revealed' i.e. unknown in the past. And i want to add, not directly related to the past.

The Apostles gave us the blueprint for our spiritual life under the new LAW.

Mandatory TITHING IS NOT THERE!

plainbibletruth:

Jesus instructed the church to apply what? Where did he instruct the church? Please clarify

1 Corinthians 9:14 (KJV)
Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel

Hey! What is the book of Hebrews all about?
On what basis did Jesus get the high status he attained as per the book of Hebrews?
Did Melchizedek fulfil the same basis?

Hebrews 5:10-11 (TLB)
For remember that God has chosen him to be a High Priest with the same rank as Melchizedek.
There is much more I would like to say along these lines, but you don't seem to listen, so it's hard to make you understand.Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am". So, what is your point here?

When we get to heaven we shall no more about the mystery man. Maybe he was God, or Jesus or an ordinary Jew

Before we drift off-course, remember the NT has given us a fair KNOWLEDGE of how the early church operated.

NOT ONCE in all these books was TITHING a COMMAND or ADVISE to the Christian.

The church doesn't have a new bible .

If now want to HIDE UNDER 'eternal principle' or whatever to justify changing how tithing was prescribed in the Old Covenant to MONETARY TITHING or as muttleyLaff said into "ecclesiastical tithe", it should occur to you, asuustrike2009 and your other guys that something is not quite right. In fact, that something is wrong.

Tithe is simply 10% of what God has blessed you . If I have gift of 10 cars I will give one to God . Then decide if I need to sell the other . Tithe is not limited to money. Money is generally default medium of exchange .

I've given you book after book in the NT where GIVING and its administration were mentioned and NOT ONCE was tithing brought up

It was a project they embarked on. That's not telling us the day to day dealing of the church .

I ask you again: Did ALL these Apostles miss out something? Did they fail us in omitting something so ‘life changing’, ‘eternal principle’, ‘principle of faith’, ‘open heaven’, etc, etc.?

Tithe belongs to God period . They had the scripture . If they had any change they would have mentioned it. At least Paul spoke Against corcumcision .

Petra1, the LAW has changed!

The new LAW was a 'mystery (but) now revealed' i.e. unknown in the past. And i want to add, not directly related to the past.

The Apostles gave us the blueprint for our spiritual life under the new LAW.

What is the new law. What bible were they studying in the church . New law? Or Torah

Mandatory TITHING IS NOT THERE!

What is there then?

petra1:
1 Corinthians 9:14 (KJV)
Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel

This isn't a problem if, as long, people aren't being forced people to give, aren't getting threatened with fear of curses, calamity or misfortune if they don't give.
As long as specified financial demands aren't forced on people, it isn't a prob
If people willing and on their own initiative give, that's OK

petra1:
Hebrews 5:10-11 (TLB)
For remember that God has chosen him to be a High Priest with the same rank as Melchizedek.
There is much more I would like to say along these lines, but you don't seem to listen, so it's hard to make you understand. Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am". So, what is your point here?

When we get to heaven we shall know more about the mystery man. Maybe he was God, or Jesus or an ordinary Jew

Well he certainly wasn't any of those you mentioned above.

petra1:
The church doesn't have a new bible

The more why it is baffling because you seem to be reading and understanding a new bible

petra1:
Tithe is simply 10% of what God has blessed you. If I have gift of 10 cars I will give one to God. Then decide if I need to sell the other. Tithe is not limited to money.
Money is generally default medium of exchange

If you have a gift or surplus of 10 cars, you are not under any obligation to give 0.001 percent of it, talkless 10%
The decision to give or not to give, is up to you.

I know you're familiar with the phrase:"Time is money"
Do you tithe your time too?
Do you divide your time into tenths when carrying out Kingdom purposes?

petra1:
It was a project they embarked on.
That's not telling us the day to day dealing of the church

That is your opinion, but the fact stands, that it is the principle of church support laid down and recommended in the bible to meet the physical needs of "church"
and it is telling us of the financial solution for the day to day dealing of the church

petra1:
Tithe belongs to God period. They had the scripture. If they had any change they would have mentioned it. At least Paul spoke against circumcision

Paul talked about the revolutionary manner of giving, that superceded taxed, obligatory or mandatory tithes

petra1:
What is the new law. What bible were they studying in the church. New law? Or Torah

A bit of biblical shock for you,
if you don't know what the new law is.

petra1:
What is there then?

Carte blanche.
It is as simple as that Petra1.
The complete freedom to act as one wishes with ones money and/or financial income

The beauty of the Gospel, is that it means good news
and it typifies FREEDOM,
freedom from any type or form of ecclesiastical taxed, obligatory or imposed tithing

MuttleyLaff:
This isn't a problem if, as long, people aren't being forced people to give, aren't getting threatened with fear of curses, calamity or misfortune if they don't give.
As long as specified financial demands aren't forced on people, it isn't a prob
If people willing and on their own initiative give, that's OK

I'm not comfortable with certain term you and some others use. Such as mandatory ,coerced , forced tithes etc. We are talking about relevance of tithe . If I may say"THEOLOGICALLY. The issue of communication is different . We all have freewill .No body can force another person to do what he is not convinced about. A man can teach on the importance of tithe just as he can teach on the importance of fasting . Does that mean he is coercing people? . it's left to individuals to Tithe ,fast,win souls,pray etc.

The more why it is baffling because you seem to be reading and understanding a new bible

I quote them out.

If you have a gift or surplus of 10 cars, you are not under any obligation to give 0.001 percent of it, talkless 10%
The decision to give or not to give, is up to you.

Every man to his conviction

I know you're familiar with the phrase:"Time is money"
Do you tithe your time too?
Do you divide your time into tenths when carrying out Kingdom purposes?

I divide the money that i make with the time

Paul talked about the revolutionary manner of giving, that superceded taxed, obligatory or mandatory tithes

I don't subscribe to your obligatory term. Is prayer a necessity or obligatory

A bit of biblical shock for you,
if you don't know what the new law is

Enlighten us

...

petra1:
I'm not comfortable with certain term you and some others use. Such as mandatory, coerced, forced tithes etc

No matter how uncomfortable it makes you feel, a spade has to be called a spade, don't you think

petra1:
We are talking about relevance of tithe
If I may say "THEOLOGICALLY

This is the point Petra1, tithe is no longer relevant.
It especially and totally lost its relevance after the temple got destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD

petra1:
The issue of communication is different.
We all have freewill.
No body can force another person to do what he is not convinced about.
A man can teach on the importance of tithe just as he can teach on the importance of fasting.
Does that mean he is coercing people?.
It's left to individuals to Tithe, fast, win souls, pray etc.

Ah, like you don't know the power of manipulation, power of feeding off others ignorance, the power of playing on their fears and the power of capitalising on their innocent greed

Can a person who doesn't give a specified and regular 10% be a member of your "church"?
Can a person who doesn't give a specified and regular 10% be a pastor, deacon, choir leader, minister, usher etcetera in your "church"?

petra1:
I quote them out.

but not very well or correctly though

petra1:
Every man to his conviction

No not every man to his own conviction
but every man according to how God has made possible for man to make the decision all by himself, whether to give or not give

petra1:
I divide the money that i make with the time

You said:
Tithe is simply 10% of what God has blessed you
and continued to give an example of giving a car for tithe, because you had 10 cars

so I replied, I know you're familiar with the phrase:
"Time is money"
Do you tithe your time too?
Do you divide your time into tenths when carrying out Kingdom purposes?

I think you can now see how ridiculous, it sounds, saying, tithe simply is 10% of what God has blessed you with

petra1:
I don't subscribe to your obligatory term.
Is prayer a necessity or obligatory

Does your "church" ostracise or deny any of your "church" members, privileges like "church" posts, declining to officiate at their marriage, death or birth naming ceremonies because they don't pray?
What about if they don't give or pay tithes?

You see, prayers and tithes are apples and oranges
They are not in this context, comparable Petra1

petra1:
Enlighten us

Arent you a teacher of the word
Should you not already know what the new law is?
C'mon do the hard lifting yourself
Do the work yourself, just be careful not to pull a muscle

15. No SINGLE Biblical instruction exists for tithes to be changed from AGRIC produce to money.

...I agree with the the OP for most part, but believe he is wrong with this statement here

Duet 14:24 - 26 is clear on this

“And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the Lord thy God hath blessed thee:”

...“Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose:”

“And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household.”
‭‭

May I humbly add that those that tithe are supposed to eat their tithes, spend their tithe money alongside those who needs help most.

And for you guys who don’t agree with me, I beseech you tonstudy Deut 14 with patience.