Kemade2007:


But let us know that ds can only be viable if the bank doesn't have penal charge like stanbic

gbam! you have considered one of the factors- the X-factor

Good day All, please i would like to know the next auction date. Have lost my calendar

C4Ltd:
you guys want to short change banks with this juicy secret abi?

@ur emboldened: (considering the other factors he stated) if your target tenor is 91, go for 364... after 91days, "short sell"... your rate would experience the RESURRECTION

Their is a caveat, you have to make sure d rates remain as they are or drop in d 3 months for u to benefit in this way?

ositadima1:


Their is a caveat, you have to make sure d rates remain as they are or drop in d 3 months for u to benefit in this way?

great X-factor there! thumbs up

First bank secondary market rates for today.
15.8% 182days
16.2% 197days.

C4Ltd:


@ "Bad Math"... said with so much confidence and shock

Bro the guy was right about 32.25% on 8...million for 63 days.

I'm only asking why 8m instead of 10m invested. koba ha kabaa? yowa

the 1.7 is the discounted rate hence total earnings 1.7+8.3+0.46 =10.46m

Ogas:

comeandcollect
ihedioramma

still recall this posts 7 months ago? (Snap Shot below)
Page 299.

If you are following the Fintech News, you will know how far,

I will not say I am the smartest decision maker,

but its the best decision I have made about business and investments till date.

Right now, my views have not changed.

Alikote:
the 1.7 is the discounted rate hence total earnings 1.7+8.3+0.46 =10.46m

yeah. last last, the only interest there is 0.46m.

chukzyfcbb:
First bank secondary market rates for today.
15.8% 182days
16.2% 197days.

cool

amjustme2:
Ogas:
comeandcollect ihedioramma
still recall this posts 7 months ago? Page 299.
If you are following the Fintech News, you will know how far,
I will not say I am the smartest decision maker,
but its the best decision I have made about business and investments till date.
Right now, my views have not changed.

Don't understand sir/ma .

Check the snapshot, its a conversation between both of us 7 months ago.


go back to page 299.

ihedioramma:
Don't understand sir/ma .

Gabrielclint:


bros let's talk business, I PMed u

My dear, I have got someone else.

I gat 127 days @ 15.5% on 950k investment. I opted for my interest to be paid upfront. I av dt exact amount on d acc to be debited for d investment and av been debited already but still expecting my interest. I hope d interest won't tarry for long?

TONY56:


My friend,
He has told you what he got at the end of the day as his profit and you're saying it's false because you have not taken the trouble to do a deligent calculation.

I will therefore prove to you now that it's not false:

He invested N10,000,000. @17.388% for 364days and got N1,738,800 as his upfront interest before other deductions. He was debited N8,265,963.8, meaning that he got a profit of N1,734,036.2 after deductions.

For terminating it after just 63days and with NO PENAL CHARGES BY STANBIC BANK, it means N1,738,800 ÷ 364days × (364-63)days =N1,437,853.9 was deducted from what he had collected as upfront interest, leaving him with N300,946.1.

Now, selling it @15.6% instead of the 17.388%he bought it because rates have come down now means he is selling it at a profit of 1.788%.

1.788% of N10,000,000 is N178,800.

Therefore his total gain is N300,946.1(for 63days)
+N178,800 (for selling at a profit)
=N479,746.

So my friend, for @whitechocolate to have told us that he made a profit of N460,063.56, he has told us NOTHING BUT THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH and the difference in my calculation and what he said he got MUST be the transaction costs and other sundry charges which is about N19,682.44.


In view of the trouble you have made me to go through to clinically prove that @whitechocolate NEVER LIED, and the fact that you cast aspersions on his person, I humbly demand that you apologise to him and just say thank you to me.

hello,yet to get the calculation to make the kill.....10 m invested for 365 days at 17 profit 1.7 then investor terminate 63 days actual profit is 1.7/365x63 day =293000 .....then subtract 1.7m-293000=1.4m is the remaining unearned interest for 298 days then subract from the capital 10m-1.4m =8.6m ...this 8.6 +1.7 =10.3 total sum paid into the account capital plus profit so gain is 300 k for 62 days ....dont understand how a tb bought at 17 sold at 15.6 will result in a gain of 1.6 percent it suppose to be a lost of 1.5 need more explantion

i been trying to design a short -selling model for my investment in tb, so that other can also key in. but after 3 hours of using several maths models all i see is that short selling is ONLY profitable if your capital is only available for 91 days or less. compared to an investor that can lock in for 356 days and reinvest the profit immediately in the secondary markets while u can only short sell in 4-6 times yearly and once you short sell and attempt to buy again rate would have felled so u can start at 18percent in january and end up with 15 percent i December...am yet to understand how a tb bought at 17.3 and sold at 15.6 will result in a profit of 1.7 this should be a loss for not holding to maturity ??need more info on this

dipoolowoo:
Average T-Bills Yields Drop as CBN Suspends OMO Auction
https://www.businesspost.ng/2017/12/05/average-t-bills-yields-drop-cbn-suspends-omo-auction/

Una weldone o!!!

These Foreign Investors wont allow us to enjoy our High yields again..but it is well!

keep calm, it will come
Only make make sure your phone is fully charged!

eniorisha:
I gat 127 days @ 15.5% on 950k investment. I opted for my interest to be paid upfront. I av dt exact amount on d acc to be debited for d investment and av been debited already but still expecting my interest. I hope d interest won't tarry for long?

amjustme2:
Check the snapshot, its a conversation between both of us 7 months ago.


go back to page 299.

I has but what are you trying to say?

Maybe I shd PM u,

ihedioramma:
I has but what are you trying to say?

amjustme2:
Maybe I shd PM u,

Just sand it to ihedioramma at yahoo dot ca . i can't reply your pm .

Alikote:
i been trying to design a short -selling model for my investment in tb, so that other can also key in. but after 3 hours of using several maths models all i see is that short selling is ONLY profitable if your capital is only available for 91 days or less. compared to an investor that can lock in for 356 days and reinvest the profit immediately in the secondary markets while u can only short sell in 4-6 times yearly and once you short sell and attempt to buy again rate would have felled so u can start at 18percent in january and end up with 15 percent i December...am yet to understand how a tb bought at 17.3 and sold at 15.6 will result in a profit of 1.7 this should be a loss for not holding to maturity ??need more info on this

It's easy.
If I buy 1m bills at 15% discount. I will be debited 850k. So my actual principal is 850k, will should become 1m if the investment matures.
Now if I decide immediately to terminate for whatever reason, and you want to buy from me at 18% you will only give me 820k, and collect the 1m on maturity, so I'll be losing 30k.
But if the prevailing market rates implies that I sell to you at 12%, then what you'll pay me will be 880k, which to me will be a 30k profit.

Basically, there's a profit when you sell at at a lower discount. And there's a loss when you sell at a higher discount.

To put things in another perspective, let's say you want to retail an item at your local store in Lagos. Item costs $100 per unit. It's year end promo, and Walmart is giving you a 10% discount.
Now when the goods reach Lagos, which will earn you profit-Offering a 5% discount or offering a 15% discount?. Obviously the latter has you selling at $85 while the former implies a $95 retail price. Cost to you is $90. So it's selling at a lower discount (5%) that brings the bucks.

awesomeJ:


It's easy.
If I buy 1m bills at 15% discount. I will be debited 850k. So my actual principal is 850k, will should become 1m if the investment matures.
Now if I decide immediately to terminate for whatever reason, and you want to buy from me at 18% you will only give me 820k, and collect the 1m on maturity, so I'll be losing 30k.
But if the prevailing market rates implies that I sell to you at 12%, then what you'll pay me will be 880k, which to me will be a 30k profit.

Basically, there's a profit when you sell at at a lower discount. And there's a loss when you sell at a higher discount.

To put things in another perspective, let's say you want to retail an item at your local store in Lagos. Item costs $100 per unit. It's year end promo, and Walmart is giving you a 10% discount.
Now when the goods reach Lagos, which will earn you profit-Offering a 5% discount or offering a 15% discount?. Obviously the latter has you selling at $85 while the former implies a $95 retail price. Cost to you is $90. So it's selling at a lower discount (5%) that brings the bucks.

Well done brother for the explanations you have offered Aliko.

Aliko, don't allow it to get you confused. So I advice that you just pick like say N1,000 to work with and see what profit you get at 17.3% for 364days; which is N17.30 inside your pocket.

Then when you now decide just after 63days to sell off, you pay back (364-63)/364 × N17.30 =
N14.3. So you now have only N3 instead of N17.3 in your pocket.

But it's the same N1,000 the bank wants to help you sell off but at 15.6% for 301days. = (N1000 x 15.6)/100 = N15.6. So out of N1000 that the bank is helping you to off load, you are now giving away only N15.6 instead of N17.3 that CBN gave you at 17.3%. You have therefore made a gain of N1.7.

If you equally off loaded at 17.3%, you would have also paid N17.3 to the new investor BUT selling at a lower DISCOUNTED rate than you bought has given you that N1.7 gain.
So your total profit from the transactions is N3 + N1.7 = N4.7 gain before deductions.

I hope with this example, you would have fully understood why you will make profit and not loss for buying at a higher discounted rate, and selling at a lower discounted rate?

The confusion arose because you are mixing up the two terms viz "Selling or buying at a rate" & "Selling or buying at a DISCOUNTED rate"

TONY56:

Well done brother for the explanations you have offered Aliko.

My pleasure sir.

please when is the next auction date for TB? would like to buy 365days TB

kings11ng:
please when is the next auction date for TB? would like to buy 365days TB

Please need an answer if someone here can help with this question..Thanks

meetchandus:


Please need an answer if someone here can help with this question..Thanks

Q1'2018 NTB schedule:
First two auction dates should be Dec13, and Dec 20th.

Overnight Rate, T-Bills Yields Fall on Absence of OMO Auction
https://www.businesspost.ng/2017/12/07/overnight-rate-t-bills-yields-fall-absence-omo-auction/

TONY56:


Well done brother for the explanations you have offered Aliko.

Aliko, don't allow it to get you confused. So I advice that you just pick like say N1,000 to work with and see what profit you get at 17.3% for 364days; which is N17.30 inside your pocket.

Then when you now decide just after 63days to sell off, you pay back (364-63)/364 × N17.30 =
N14.3. So you now have only N3 instead of N17.3 in your pocket.

But it's the same N1,000 the bank wants to help you sell off but at 15.6% for 301days. = (N1000 x 15.6)/100 = N15.6. So out of N1000 that the bank is helping you to off load, you are now giving away only N15.6 instead of N17.3 that CBN gave you at 17.3%. You have therefore made a gain of N1.7.

If you equally off loaded at 17.3%, you would have also paid N17.3 to the new investor BUT selling at a lower DISCOUNTED rate than you bought has given you that N1.7 gain.
So your total profit from the transactions is N3 + N1.7 = N4.7 gain before deductions.

I hope with this example, you would have fully understood why you will make profit and not loss for buying at a higher discounted rate, and selling at a lower discounted rate?

The confusion arose because you are mixing up the two terms viz "Selling or buying at a rate" & "Selling or buying at a DISCOUNTED rate"

thanks guys when is the best time to short sell....immediately after rate falls or when rate fall after holding for 75 percent of time

Alikote:
thanks guys when is the best time to short sell....immediately after rate falls or when rate fall after holding for 75 percent of time

Sir, it's like every other business, you buy cheap (17.3%) and sell at a higher price (15.6%).

ositadima1:


Sir, it's like every other business, you buy cheap (17.3%) and sell at a higher price (15.6%).

The very simple way to understand 'short selling'.

If you sell at a higher discount (17%) (you are asking the buyer, your customer to pay LESS)
If you sell at a lower discount (15%) (you are asking the buyer, your customer to pay MORE, in this case 2% more - Here you make better gain)

Let me clear d air a little.

what CBN quote are discount rates, with these u can compute true yield;

True yield = (discount rate * 100)/(1 - discount rate)

eg, for discount rate of 17.4% u get (0.174 * 100)/(1 - 0.174) = 21.1% , this is d ROI on ur true principal.

True principal is the real money u are investing.

True principal = apparent principal * (1 - discount rate)

eg, for discount rate of 17.4%, apparent principal of 10m (the available money in ur account)
True principal = 10m * (1 - 0.174) = 8.26m

In other words u invest 8.26m to make 10m at end of tenure, a 21.1% ROI.

To calculate possible profit from buying low and selling high with the example above.

Initial discount rate = 17.4% (bought at lower price)
Final discount rate = 15.6% (to be sold at higher price)

Remaining time = 364 - 63 =301 days

Using equations from my previous post;

True yield at 17.4% discount rate is 21.07%
True yield at 15.6% discount rate is 18.5%

True principal is 8.26m, but we are interested here in the remaining 301 days so, true principal evaluates to 8.26 * 301 / 364 = 6.8m

ROI at 17.4% discount rate is 6.8m * 21.07% = 1.43m
ROI at 15.6% discount rate is 6.8m * 18.5% = 1.26m

Difference gives us profit for remaining 301 days if we choose to short sell after 63 days run

= 1.43m - 1.26m
=0.17m. or 170k