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DMerciful:
You mean it's modified sine wave?

I typed 100% ! Its due to distortions you get especially when you operate loads above 50% .. Its not really obvious for those running average loads , its ruggedity can't still be compared to transformer based pure sine wave inverters.. Thanks!!

Transformer types are more rugged... Just the idle consumption

kiekie1:


I typed 100% ! Its due to distortions you get especially when you load above 50% .. Its not really obvious for those running average loads , its ruggedity can't still be compared to transformer based pure sine wave inverters.. Thanks!!

DMerciful:
Transformer types are more rugged... Just the idle consumption

Yes Bro ... Idle consumptions is mostly noticeable in must power brands but Mr Niyi was right on his analysis. I have clients who don't really notice the idle current issue due to battery bank size , PV array & power saver mode feature et all ! I believe little adjustments was effected on the newer versions of the powersar inverters and voltron inverters .. The hybrids are always cheaper than the transformer based/standalone inverters !!

Your observations are correct same as Oga KieKie - Flooded batteries kind of have lower voltage profiles than sealed maimtenance free batteries and their Voltage vs. State of Charge charts typically reflect same.

I also noticed that this apparent low voltage is more pronounced in the Mercury Flooded I first had than in my last set of US Batteries for example but I have no hard data to support this.

Interesting that you also are getting disillusioned with Flooded batteries as a quite a few people have been on here - for me Lithium is the next port of call once I wrap my head around all the complexities of a BMS and battery balancing.

To eliminate undercharging issues with your Flooded battery bank please Can you confirm that you give your batteries a proper daily charge? What is your absorb voltage setpoint? How many hours do your batteries spend in absorb daily?

Currently I have 16 pieces of 12v 200ah Gel batteries in a 48v 800ah setup - my voltage generally stays around 50.6 worst case by 6am in the morning. If the Madam had used microwave a lot the night before or the 2hp sitting room AC then I could see 50.3volts - once on a cloudy day where I could not finish absorb and still had heavy overnight usage, I saw 49.75volts by 6am in the morning and mind you I ALWAYS use the 1hp bedroom AC overnight.

So I remove anywhere between 160ah to 260ah between 6pm and 6am daily from a 800ah bank and the voltage stays within the 70 to 80% State of Charge mark.

So far so good excellent batteries and they were sourced from ICelllPower through JUO.

earthrealm:


did you check what the battery voltage was when you loaded it so?.
my 4kva 48v mustpower hooked to 4 x 200ah flooded battery. the batt voltage drops to 48.8v from fully charged idle voltage of 50v if a 1.8kw steam iron + about 300w random loads is hooked up to it. i think the drop is too much, and also fully charged voltage of 50v.
when fully charged with ac, voltage is 52.6v/53.4v...and once phcn goes, it quickly drops to 52v/51.6v and later settles at a steady 50v after about 30mins to 1hr..with <100w on it....makes me think something is wrong with my flooded batts, was expecting idle voltage of 12.8v, instead of 12.5v per battery...abi its the mustpower internal circuitry and transformer that is drawing it down to 12.v?..hvnt bothered to disconnect and test the voltage of each battery when fully chared

i have made up my mind to go the route of transformer type 5kva 48v inverter, muspower, prag etc+long battery combo - mek i use smf batt abge, dont have energy for flooded batts again
, i no fit shout in this buhari era say the avpert come blow

kiekie1:


That's one of the reasons why he ported to sealed maintenance free deep cycle batteries .. I observed same when I was on flooded batteries too ! Cheer's

With this kind of battery bank,do you really need lithium batteries?

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Your observations are correct same as Oga KieKie - Flooded batteries kind of have lower voltage profiles than sealed maimtenance free batteries and their Voltage vs. State of Charge charts typically reflect same.

I also noticed that this apparent low voltage is more pronounced in the Mercury Flooded I first had than in my last set of US Batteries for example but I have no hard data to support this.

Interesting that you also are getting disillusioned with Flooded batteries as a quite a few people have been on here - for me Lithium is the next port of call once I wrap my head around all the complexities of a BMS and battery balancing.

To eliminate undercharging issues with your Flooded battery bank please Can you confirm that you give your batteries a proper daily charge? What is your absorb voltage setpoint? How many hours do your batteries spend in absorb daily?

Currently I have 16 pieces of 12v 200ah Gel batteries in a 48v 800ah setup - my voltage generally stays around 50.6 worst case by 6am in the morning. If the Madam had used microwave a lot the night before or the 2hp sitting room AC then I could see 50.3volts - once on a cloudy day where I could not finish absorb and still had heavy overnight usage, I saw 49.75volts by 6am in the morning and mind you I ALWAYS use the 1hp bedroom AC overnight.

So I remove anywhere between 160ah to 260ah between 6pm and 6am daily from a 800ah bank and the voltage stays within the 70 to 80% State of Charge mark.

So far so good excellent batteries and they were sourced from ICelllPower through JUO.

The plan is not to need new batteries for the next 5 years at least.

Fingers crossed on how the future will actually turn out!!!

If I can get battery longevity results like Oga GeorgeD then I will be a happy man indeed

DMerciful:
With this kind of battery bank,do you really need lithium batteries?

With your array and battery bank... You should get longevity cos the stress on individual battery is low and enuf array to ensure full charge daily. When I grow up sha

NiyiOmoIyunade:
The plan is not to need new batteries for the next 5 years at least.

Fingers crossed on how the future will actually turn out!!!

If I can get battery longevity results like Oga GeorgeD then I will be a happy man indeed

DMerciful:
With this kind of battery bank,do you really need lithium batteries?

lol, nice question, he doesnt..thats almost 2m naira in batteries, icell batts are cheaper than quanta.

@niyi, my batts get full charge evry day..i have phcn 10 to 16hrs daily, so they rarely go below 49.2v, common voltage is 49.6v. no ac, no fride/freezer, just led tv, lights and fan..and occasional pressing iron and microwave.

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Anybody used Exulted Eagle batteries how good re they any recommendations?
I saw they have 150,180 n 220A am thinking of going for their 220A

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The shading i experience at 3pm everyday is killing my output. Imagine a maximum of 906W from a 6-panel 1800W array. Abeg who can supply and install this for 6 300W panels:

sinistrian:
The shading i experience at 3pm every day is killing my output. Imagine a maximum of 906W from a 6-panel 1800W array. Abeg who can supply and install this for 6 300W panels:

The second photo panels with tracker In case you find supplier I am also interested

earthrealm:


did you check what the battery voltage was when you loaded it so?.
my 4kva 48v mustpower hooked to 4 x 200ah flooded battery. the batt voltage drops to 48.8v from fully charged idle voltage of 50v if a 1.8kw steam iron + about 300w random loads is hooked up to it. i think the drop is too much, and also fully charged voltage of 50v.
when fully charged with ac, voltage is 52.6v/53.4v...and once phcn goes, it quickly drops to 52v/51.6v and later settles at a steady 50v after about 30mins to 1hr..with <100w on it....makes me think something is wrong with my flooded batts, was expecting idle voltage of 12.8v, instead of 12.5v per battery...abi its the mustpower internal circuitry and transformer that is drawing it down to 12.v?..hvnt bothered to disconnect and test the voltage of each battery when fully chared

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Your observations are correct same as Oga KieKie - Flooded batteries kind of have lower voltage profiles than sealed maimtenance free batteries and their Voltage vs. State of Charge charts typically reflect same.

I also noticed that this apparent low voltage is more pronounced in the Mercury Flooded I first had than in my last set of US Batteries for example but I have no hard data to support this.

Interesting that you also are getting disillusioned with Flooded batteries as a quite a few people have been on here - for me Lithium is the next port of call once I wrap my head around all the complexities of a BMS and battery balancing.

To eliminate undercharging issues with your Flooded battery bank please Can you confirm that you give your batteries a proper daily charge? What is your absorb voltage setpoint? How many hours do your batteries spend in absorb daily?

Currently I have 16 pieces of 12v 200ah Gel batteries in a 48v 800ah setup - my voltage generally stays around 50.6 worst case by 6am in the morning. If the Madam had used microwave a lot the night before or the 2hp sitting room AC then I could see 50.3volts - once on a cloudy day where I could not finish absorb and still had heavy overnight usage, I saw 49.75volts by 6am in the morning and mind you I ALWAYS use the 1hp bedroom AC overnight.

So I remove anywhere between 160ah to 260ah between 6pm and 6am daily from a 800ah bank and the voltage stays within the 70 to 80% State of Charge mark.

So far so good excellent batteries and they were sourced from ICelllPower through JUO.

One thing I have learnt going 2 years into using FLA battery is, they have a different load and open circuit voltage profile when compared with SMF VRLA batteries. This should not be taken to mean FLA are weaker (In fact the reverse is the case).

Lets get one thing out of the way. Voltage is a not a good indicator for deciding state of charge. The closest means of determining battery state of charge via voltage is when the battery is at rest for close to 2 hours (no charge or discharge). I have 2 mercury FLA (The once popular tubular type) 220AH (which i derated to 200AH after a year of use) both batteries are connected in series at 24v. I have a Victron BMV to monitor battery voltage, and does net amps charge/ discharge.

My observations:

FLR has a very low pull down voltage when load is applied compared top VRLA/SMF batteries.. BUT it bounces back once the load is removed and if in the end you leave both batteries for 2 hours without load or charge. Their OPV would end up to about the same. I think the difference in pull down voltage is largely due to their chemical composition. My average discharge from my "200" AH 24v bank is 84AH over 2 years (figures from Battery monitor stats) which represent about 42% depth of discharge. Most of the discharge happens between 17:00 to 08:00 with a discharge rate of about 4AH - 9AH depending on the time of night. By most morning battery *load* voltage is at 24.6 - 24.4. I once pulled about 103AH from my battery bank and the load voltage was at 24.4v in the morning. Once I removed the load the battery voltage jumped to 24.7 and in 30 minutes was at 25.1v. The nature of FLA gives it a very elastic voltage.

I have also noticed flooded acid suffers a lot from surface charge:
I noticed this when my battery voltage suddenly dropped (if we recall many members have complained about this before) in fact load voltage dropped considerably from the usual 25-24.9 voltage in early evenings to about 24.7. I was already thinking it's time to get a new battery when I stumbled on the surface charge syndrome.

Surface charge

Lead acid batteries are sluggish and cannot convert lead sulfate to lead and lead dioxide quickly during charge. This delayed action causes most of the charge activities to occur on the plate surfaces, resulting in an elevated state-of-charge (SoC) on the outside.

A battery with surface charge has a slightly elevated voltage and gives a false voltage-based SoC reading. . Surface charge is not a battery defect but a reversible condition.

source http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/water_loss_acid_stratification_and_surface_charge

Surface charge is when the charge activity on a battery occurs only on the surface of the lead and does not goes deep.. cooking metaphor. It is like meat that is only cooked on the outside but deep inside is uncooked.

What are the cause of surface charge:
High current charge. Lead acid batteries have an optimal rate of charge which is usually 20% of C20 capacity for AGM and 10-13% for FLA. The relative lower charge rate for FLA makes them more susceptible to surface charge. If a 200AH fla battery is charged with 40AH.. this would lead to the charger getting to a false absorption voltage faster than it should leading to it getting to floating (thinking the battery is fully charged) when in fact only the surface of the battery lead was charged.. when load is applied and the surface charge is used up.. you will experience a drop in battery voltage.

Cure: is simple, longer, slower charge. Just as slow cooking meat with low heat allows it to be well and deeply cooked. slow charging a battery within its recommended charge current will also allow the charge get deep into the lead plates. Unfortunately this is problem with solar only source of charge. Effective sun time might not be enough to fully cure a battery that has suffered from surface charge. slow charging means less energy pumped into the battery for a longer time.. longer than the sun can be in the sky. The medicine for this is to lower your battery depth of discharge based on how easy it is to effectively charge it based on its recommended charge rate (and not based on your panel capacity) It is also why it is better to go for higher voltage than higher amps when designing battery systems.

In my case, I had to bring back grid charging at night and stop the habit of only charging my battery via solar. Now I charge it everytime grid is available. Sometimes when battery is full. I turn off the charger for a while (so that the charge sinks in) and then turn the charger back on like 20 min later. since applying this my 2 year old FLA stays north of 25v most nights even on a sustained load of 11AH.

I still think that FLA are the best lead acid batteries out there. They are more rugged, tougher and easier to troubleshoot. The ability to renew the water in case of loss allows it to take a beating and abuse from charges and equalization helps to remove the need for battery balancers and help combat sulphation.

please, how can you differentiate between an original and fake Quanta battery??

heard one comes with white carton. another comes with brown carton

though I'm thinking maybe they're different technologies (AGM and SMF)

Tired of all these fake versus original palava

@bigrovar, nice write up. one set of my fla in on grid 24/7. the one i complained about. grid is on for 10 to 16hrs daily, so it gets fully charged daily, though once in 2 or 3 months..i discharge it to as low as 48v or even 47.2v. mustpower max charging current is 30amps, which i hv confirmed with a clamp meter to be 29amps , so issue of excessive current is not there.

i understand the advanges of fla over smf, that is why i hv 2 sets of 4 fla batt each , just feel they should be giving me more...anyway..planning on getting a batch of smf for another installation, would use that to compare...maybe its all in my head

mcTrinity:
please, how can you differentiate between an original and fake Quanta battery??

heard one comes with white carton. another comes with brown carton

though I'm thinking maybe they're different technologies (AGM and SMF)

Tired of all these fake versus original palava

using cartons to differentiate fake and original is wrong, sellers can always swap cartons.

mcTrinity:
please, how can you differentiate between an original and fake Quanta battery??

heard one comes with white carton. another comes with brown carton

though I'm thinking maybe they're different technologies (AGM and SMF)

Tired of all these fake versus original palava

best might be to buy from a certified dealer. Might want to reach out to the quanta people (from their website) to find out

earthrealm:
@bigrovar, nice write up. one set of my fla in on grid 24/7. the one i complained about. grid is on for 10 to 16hrs daily, so it gets fully charged daily, though once in 2 or 3 months..i discharge it to as low as 48v or even 47.2v. mustpower max charging current is 30amps, which i hv confirmed with a clamp meter to be 29amps , so issue of excessive current is not there.

i understand the advanges of fla over smf, that is why i hv 2 sets of 4 fla batt each , just feel they should be giving me more...anyway..planning on getting a batch of smf for another installation, would use that to compare...maybe its all in my head



using cartons to differentiate fake and original is wrong, sellers can always swap cartons.

30amp is too much for a 200AH battery safe charge current should be around 20 or even 24 ah. 1 set my inverter to charge at 18ah.. the lower the charge current (up to a level) the more efficient the charge. FLA loves to be slow charged over a period of time.

bigrovar:


30amp is too much for a 200AH battery safe charge current should be around 20 or even 24 ah. 1 set my inverter to charge at 18ah.. the lower the charge current (up to a level) the more efficient the charge. FLA loves to be slow charged over a period of time.

YOU remeber its 3 stage charging process for most indian/chinese inverters..it starts with 30amps if the battery is very low, and gradually reduces the current..and ends up with a trickle charge of 0.5amps

earthrealm:


YOU remeber its 3 stage charging process for most indian/chinese inverters..it starts with 30amps if the battery is very low, and gradually reduces the current..and ends up with a trickle charge of 0.5amps

Then get an inverter with an adjustable charge current. I think a lot of chinese/indian inverters have that in one form or the other. 30amps is not healthy for a 200ah fla.

bigrovar:
Then get an inverter with an adjustable charge current. I think a lot of chinese/indian inverters have that in one form or the other. 30amps is not healthy for a 200ah fla.

you still dont get it.
it doesnt supply 30amps throughout the charging cycle, once phcn is restored, it always starts with 30amps...and depending on the state of charge it will taper off gradually until it settles at 0.5amps when the batt is full.

the inverter is mustpower 4kva 48v like i have said several times. its charging algortihm is ok to the best of my knowledge.it also has an adjustable current setting, i put mine about 3/4

earthrealm:


you still dont get it.
it doesnt supply 30amps throughout the charging cycle, once phcn is restored, it always starts with 30amps...and depending on the state of charge it will taper off gradually until it settles at 0.5amps when the batt is full.

the inverter is mustpower 4kva 48v like i have said several times. its charging algortihm is ok to the best of my knowledge.it also has an adjustable current setting, i put mine about 3/4

The 3 stage charge are Bulk, Absorption and Float. In the bulk stage every current available to the charger goes into the battery.. This is where the user has to be careful, you have to ensure you limit the current going to your battery to the recommended battery current set limit (usually set by the manufacturer) but generally 10-13% of C20 Capacity of the battery (for fla). What this means is that a 200ah fla battery should not be charged at current more than 20AH (in the bulk stage of charge) if a charger sends in 30ah to a 200ah fla battery then 10ah of the current is wasted and often times converted to heat.. causing the battery to boil and wearing off the plates. It can also lead to surface charge. AGM is much more tolerant of high current charge even in bulk stage.

kiekie1:


Long time Sir, hope your car desulphator is still active after all this years

In fact, I just got a couple more.[/b]

Mute testimony: a client's bank (nearly 3 years old) had one of the 12V batteries beginning to show signs of drifting. One cell in particular kept dropping the ball on end-of-charge S.G. values.

Enter the desulphator. A week later and everything is working fine (added a desulphator to the second battery in the string as well). No equalisation. No extended absorb. No other variable altered. True, it might be snake oil to many but [b]mine work. And I am satisfied, as are my clientele. As I often say, "... whatever gets you through the day."

bigrovar:


The 3 stage charge are Bulk, Absorption and Float. In the bulk stage every current available to the charger goes into the battery.. This is where the user has to be careful, you have to ensure you limit the current going to your battery to the recommended battery current set limit (usually set by the manufacturer) but generally 10-13% of C20 Capacity of the battery (for fla). What this means is that a 200ah fla battery should not be charged at current more than 20AH (in the bulk stage of charge) if a charger sends in 30ah to a 200ah fla battery then 10ah of the current is wasted and often times converted to heat.. causing the battery to boil and wearing off the plates. It can also lead to surface charge. AGM is much more tolerant of high current charge even in bulk stage.

ok, good we are on the same page now, 13% of 200ah = 26amps. 13% of 220amps = 29amps.
the batts claims to be 220ah. will dial back the knob to 50% or 26amps....and see if it makes any difference over time to my standy ffully charged voltage

Saipro:


In fact, I just got a couple more.[/b]

Mute testimony: a client's bank (nearly 3 years old) had one of the 12V batteries beginning to show signs of drifting. One cell in particular kept dropping the ball on end-of-charge S.G. values.

Enter the desulphator. A week later and everything is working fine (added a desulphator to the second battery in the string as well). No equalisation. No extended absorb. No other variable altered. True, it might be snake oil to many but [b]mine work. And I am satisfied, as are my clientele. As I often say, "... whatever gets you through the day."

aha,,, another testimony, methinks/want to believe some of them actually do work.

Please who can explain this phenomenon.

I experienced this upsurge about two days ago before midday. It kept tripping my CC to Battery bank outgoing breakers. I kept closing it back, then it tripped the PV to CC incoming breaker. After which I allowed the system to relax.

PS: I looked out of the window and noticed the sun wasn't as bright as there were scattered low lying clouds in the sky. But the sun's intensity was so intense through the edge of the clouds with shadows showing clear and distinct outlines around objects!

Still wondering why...

mcTrinity:
please, how can you differentiate between an original and fake Quanta battery??

heard one comes with white carton. another comes with brown carton

though I'm thinking maybe they're different technologies (AGM and SMF)

Tired of all these fake versus original palava

Buy from trusted suppliers and save ursef the stress, 130k is no joke.. Quanta I knw comes in white carton

What brand of desulfator are you using? PowerPulse, BLS or something else?

I've had a desulfator in my car for several years but my last two batteries were Calcium SMF and they lasted on average a little over 2 years. Calcium SMF absorb voltage is well over 15volts but my alternator does between 14.4 and 14.6volts. I believe undercharging due to battery chemistry requirements, alternator mismatch and very short commutes/driving distances (live just 5 minutes from the office) are what shortened my car battery life despite having a desulfator attached.

If all other variables are in place (especially a regular full charge) then a good desulfator should help keep any sulfate crystals off the negative battery plate but it will not help with positive grid corrosion....

Saipro:


In fact, I just got a couple more.[/b]

Mute testimony: a client's bank (nearly 3 years old) had one of the 12V batteries beginning to show signs of drifting. One cell in particular kept dropping the ball on end-of-charge S.G. values.

Enter the desulphator. A week later and everything is working fine (added a desulphator to the second battery in the string as well). No equalisation. No extended absorb. No other variable altered. True, it might be snake oil to many but [b]mine work. And I am satisfied, as are my clientele. As I often say, "... whatever gets you through the day."

If your cc to battery breaker trips when there is no short.-circuit then it means it's not properly sized and this could cause cc failure. If it were EPSOLAR cc it would have positively failed.
You seemed to have experienced what is called solar flare where the luminosity is more than 1000w/m2 and as such panels give more than their rated capacity as their capacity is usually rated at 1000w/m2.
Key take out is for you to size ur breakers correctly

Ijeoma660:
Please who can explain this phenomenon.

I experienced this upsurge about two days ago before midday. It kept tripping my CC to Battery bank outgoing breakers. I kept closing it back, then it tripped the PV to CC incoming breaker. After which I allowed the system to relax.

PS: I looked out of the window and noticed the sun wasn't as bright as there were scattered low lying clouds in the sky. But the sun's intensity was so intense through the edge of the clouds with shadows showing clear and distinct outlines around objects!

Still wondering why...

Are you using properly rated DC breakers and also properly sized for your application between PV and CC and between PV and battery? A good rule of thumb is to size your breakers 125% to 160% of the expected maximum amps that will pass through the cabling and equipment the breakers are protecting.

I have seen people use all sorts of AC breakers for DC applications but this is a very bad and dangerous practice that could cause a fire if the AC breaker fails to extinguish/contain the DC current arc properly.

A good MPPT CC should be able to clamp current going to the batteries to within rated limits and relying on your previous posts on here your PV array is not oversized - based on this I would blame the issue you are experiencing on the type or rating/sizing of the breakers you have installed.

Please revert with further details and we can take the matter further.

Ijeoma660:
Please who can explain this phenomenon.

I experienced this upsurge about two days ago before midday. It kept tripping my CC to Battery bank outgoing breakers. I kept closing it back, then it tripped the PV to CC incoming breaker. After which I allowed the system to relax.

PS: I looked out of the window and noticed the sun wasn't as bright as there were scattered low lying clouds in the sky. But the sun's intensity was so intense through the edge of the clouds with shadows showing clear and distinct outlines around objects!

Still wondering why...