GUMY:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh2Tac1gNPU&t=78s

A youtube video is now some type of ‘proof’ in Bini people’s scholarship

LMAO, did you know these bronzes were taught to you by Yoruba people?

Look, you have no crutches to rest the weight of your claims on. If you want youtube videos on Ife/Yoruba, they abound on the internet greatly; if you want to talk art, google Leo Frobenius’ institute to see what just one man collected on Ife then see German, British & American museums.

Bini was the first to have contact with Europeans. The Europeans could not venture into the interiors of Yoruba land because of Malaria Fever & Ijebu people and at this time they were mingling freely with you lot.

In spite of your interactions with them, even with their king, they didn’t find it worthy to document things about you lot in writing.

Yet, starting from the 19th century when Europeans began to venture into Yorubaland like the Clappertons, Landers, Campbells, Hinderers, Bowens, Frobenius etc the Europeans documented a great deal of information on Yoruba people and they still keep finding bew data yearly to explore, why?

The foremost Bini Historian was Bradbury and then PC Lloyd. They also ran out of things to write about, why?

The most foolish thing is when one of the fools believe history is debatable. For your info fool, history is written on historical documents. All you can do is bring the documents out and read them. There is no place for debate.

GUMY:
The most foolish thing is when one of the fools believe history is debatable. For your info fool, history is written on historical documents. All you can do is bring the documents out and read them. There is no place for debate.

Wow, throwing insults now are we?

I can report you and have you banned but I won’t tow that line. I want you to up ypur argument by providing European documents on Bini showing a chunk of Yorubaland was under Bini empire

Cite 5 historical documents by Europeans emphasising your claim.

I swear these guys think history is just like a religious debate in which you quote book A and then book B, and talk about the reputation of the authors and the talent of the authors. Nope, history is only about reading eyewitness accounts or reading archeological discoveries.

GUMY:
Could someone remind some fools that history is not written in books but on historical documents ?
Also could someone ask the fools what a historical document is ?

Like I said earlier, a little more banter will expose you and here you are falling apart as I expected. You are not in the least a History student, yet, you proudly typed a post about what history is and gleefully clicked ‘submit’.

A Historical document including but not limited to colonial reports, expedition journals, missionary documents and so on are written on papers/books. They serve as ‘primary sources’ to history research and writing but not without being subjected to thorough vetting.

You have no books on Bini history except your Oba’s orgasmic fantasy collections. Now, cite historical documents, 5 different ones. I’ll wait.

GUMY:
I swear these guys think history is just like a religious debate in which you quote book A and then book B, and talk about the reputation of the authors and the talent of the authors. Nope, history is only about reading eyewitness accounts or reading archeological discoveries.

Chet, see product od UniBen & Ekpoma

Abeg serenade me ‘eye witness accounts’ of Europeans saying a chunk of Yoruba land was part of Bini Empire, I’m waiting.

As for acheological discoveries, please do not go there. It will further embarrass you because it is common knowledge world over that Bini’s archeological findings make Bini an appendage of Ife. In essence, Bini learnt its art from Yoruba.

Sad stuff if you think about it. . A whole ‘great Bini that conquered the whole southern Nigeria learnt art from ‘Afonja’.

Can you read maps ?
I just keep wondering, how many times shall I post the maps before you develop the ability to read them ?

MiyettiAllah:


I want you to up ypur argument by providing European documents on Bini showing a chunk of Yorubaland was under Bini empire

Cite 5 historical documents by Europeans emphasising your claim.

This one dates to around 1699:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595525w/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

An other map of Benin made in the 17th century once again:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714.r=Benin?rk=214593;2

An other map of Benin from the 17th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=193134;0

This one date to the 19th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8469390z/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

An other map from the 17th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595527q/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

Ok, you want to talk, let us talk.
Give me the archeological discovery which makes Benin art a fruit of ife.

MiyettiAllah:


Chet, see product od UniBen & Ekpoma

Abeg serenade me ‘eye witness accounts’ of Europeans saying a chunk of Yoruba land was part of Bini Empire, I’m waiting.

As for acheological discoveries, please do not go there. It will further embarrass you because it is common knowledge world over that Bini’s archeological findings make Bini an appendage of Ife. In essence, Bini learnt its art from Yoruba.

Sad stuff if you think about it. . A whole ‘great Bini that conquered the whole southern Nigeria learnt art from ‘Afonja’.

I have debated more than seven yoruba on this same subject and it always starts the same way and ends the same way.
You start by being very cocky and making bold claims, untill I disprove you with historical documents and logics, then you start making up fake maps and eventually you claim that history is not relevant.

MiyettiAllah:


Chet, see product od UniBen & Ekpoma

Abeg serenade me ‘eye witness accounts’ of Europeans saying a chunk of Yoruba land was part of Bini Empire, I’m waiting.

As for acheological discoveries, please do not go there. It will further embarrass you because it is common knowledge world over that Bini’s archeological findings make Bini an appendage of Ife. In essence, Bini learnt its art from Yoruba.

Sad stuff if you think about it. . A whole ‘great Bini that conquered the whole southern Nigeria learnt art from ‘Afonja’.

GUMY:
Can you read maps ?
I just keep wondering, how many times shall I post the maps before you develop the ability to read them ?



This one dates to around 1699:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595525w/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

An other map of Benin made in the 17th century once again:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714.r=Benin?rk=214593;2

An other map of Benin from the 17th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=193134;0

This one date to the 19th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8469390z/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

An other map from the 17th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595527q/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

Sweet Jesus.

What do you want me to make of the maps exactly?

You inferred parts of Yorubaland was under Benin because the ‘Benin’ was printed boldly on the pages of your document?

You my friend are tripping. For that map to have any form of interpretations, those who drew it must be known and the narratives around it be made public.

There are maps focusing on Yorubaland with ‘Yoruba’ printed bolding across. Would one then assume Yoruba armies conquered all the way into South South? Because this is your logic with this spam you have confused for facts you keep posting.

Let A be an event.
Actually, a historical document of event A is a docuent writen about event A at the time period of event A.

MiyettiAllah:

A Historical document including but not limited to colonial reports, expedition journals, missionary documents and so on are written on papers/books. They serve as ‘primary sources’ to history research and writing but not without being subjected to thorough vetting.

If you want to talk then refrain from your non logical talk.
These are maps of the Benin Kingdom, drawn by the map makers accompanying the traders who came into west Africa for trade.
These maps are physically present in the Bibliothèque nationale de France.
The names of the authors are written in the website, if you manange to learn how to use a computer you will be able to readf them.
If you want to be illogical by debating something which has just been proven, then you can talk alone, I have no time for this nonesense.

MiyettiAllah:


Sweet Jesus.

What do you want me to make of the maps exactly?

You inferred parts of Yorubaland was under Benin because the ‘Benin’ was printed boldly on the pages of your document?

You my friend are tripping. For that map to have any form of interpretations, those who drew it must be known and the narratives around it be made public.

There are maps focusing on Yorubaland with ‘Yoruba’ printed bolding across. Would one then assume Yoruba armies conquered all the way into South South? Because this is your logic with this spam you have confused for facts you keep posting.

I believe I have spared you enough of my precious time. Why are you guys always so cocky ? Why do you automatically assume that you are talking to a dummy who would somehow be amenable to support yoruba ethnocentirc beliefs ? It is just a huge lack of respect for the person talking to you when you just bring the most laughable claims and think you have a point. I mean is it that difficult to just be logical. You make claim A, you provide a mathematical proof of claim A.
You don't make claims which you can't prove.
Is it so difficult ?

To think that you would even shamelessly claim that archeological discovery shows Benin to be somehow from ife, or Edo art to be derived from ife/yoruba art ? Do you think I am 5 years old ? Do you personnally think I haven't disproved this laughable claim hundreds of times ?
If only one could tell why you guys keep repeating the same debunked stories while talking to those who (your brain should inform you) have debunked these claims multiple times ?
@miyettiallah, Next time you want to rewrite history, make sure your IQ is higher and make sure you actually know what history is.

GUMY:
Ok, you want to talk, let us talk.
Give me the archeological discovery which makes Benin art a fruit of ife.

Wow, hang in there cowboy.

We are both aware of who Iguegha was and what he did.

So the new angle of your debate is to now speak on my behalf ?

MiyettiAllah:


Wow, hang in there cowboy.

We are both aware of who Iguegha was and what he did.

GUMY:
Let A be an event.
Actually, a historical document of event A is a docuent writen about event A at the time period of event A.

This shows you have no training in History research & writing.

Smh.

Me "debating" history with you is like a physics professor debating physics with a primary one student.

MiyettiAllah:



This shows you have no training in History research & writing.

Smh.

GUMY:
If you want to talk then refrain from your non logical talk.
These are maps of the Benin Kingdom, drawn by the map makers accompanying the traders who came into west Africa for trade.
These maps are physically present in the Bibliothèque nationale de France.
The names of the authors are written in the website, if you manange to learn how to use a computer you will be able to readf them.
If you want to be illogical by debating something which has just been proven, then you can talk alone, I have no time for this nonesense.

These are maps made by map makers who did not get to the interior. Did the Europeans go to Ekiti, Owo, Ondo, Akoko before drawing the map?

How this is a representation of your claim is a wonder.

GUMY:
I believe I have spared you enough of my precious time. Why are you guys always so cocky ? Why do you automatically assume that you are talking to a dummy who would somehow be amenable to support yoruba ethnocentirc beliefs ? It is just a huge lack of respect for the person talking to you when you just bring the most laughable claims and think you have a point. I mean is it that difficult to just be logical. You make claim A, you provide a mathematical proof of claim A.
You don't make claims which you can't prove.
Is it so difficult ?

You have not proven anything, young man.

You still haven’t provided written documents of Europeans describing what you said.

I am still waiting.

I guess you were there and witnessed the europeans not going into the interrior ? right ?
By the way, is Benin city on the coast or in the interrior ?
These europeans visited Benin City, right ?

MiyettiAllah:



These are maps made by map makers who did not get to the interior. Did the Europeans go to Ekiti, Owo, Ondo, Akoko before drawing the map?

How this is a representation of your claim is a wonder.

GUMY:
To think that you would even shamelessly claim that archeological discovery shows Benin to be somehow from ife, or Edo art to be derived from ife/yoruba art ? Do you think I am 5 years old ? Do you personnally think I haven't disproved this laughable claim hundreds of times ?
If only one could tell why you guys keep repeating the same debunked stories while talking to those who (your brain should inform you) have debunked these claims multiple times ?
@miyettiallah, Next time you want to rewrite history, make sure your IQ is higher and make sure you actually know what history is.

LMAO.

Young man, you need to stop spamming NL with those links. They mean absolutely nothing without supporting texts. It is just that, a drawing.

You have not debunked anything, not even your Oba has debunked anything, not to mention you uneducated lot who run around NL spamming us with no source.

@ the emboldened: says a person who does not know what objectivity & historical evidence are.

GUMY:
Me "debating" history with you is like a physics professor debating physics with a primary one student.

LMAO

Says a man who does not know contemporary writing is at best a chronicle except complemented with other evidences.

Mr. Historical Document. What school did you go to?

GUMY:
I guess you were there and witnessed the europeans not going into the interrior ? right ?
By the way, is Benin city on the coast or in the interrior ?
These europeans visited Benin City, right ?

If they did, the records will be available.

At least we know of Clapperton that trekked from Borno to Sokoto; M. Park that trekked from Borno to Niger river; Landers that trekked from Badagry to Sokoto and to Onitsha and so on.

There is no record of Europeans going into Yorubaland with Bini.

Now, you can kindly discuss alone since you have already reached the point of complete illogical speech (some might say cr*z*n*ss)
I knew this might happen. You place an ethnocentric yoruba with proof that he is full of it, and then his only way out is to throw away logics.
Now "maps are not really maps, they are just drawings which mean nothing."
OK, have fun in yaba left, tell them I sent you there, they will give you preferential treatment like all the other ethnocentric yoruba whom I sent there.

MiyettiAllah:


LMAO.

Young man, you need to stop spamming NL with those links. They mean absolutely nothing without supporting texts. It is just that, a drawing.

You have not debunked anything, not even your Oba has debunked anything, not to mention you uneducated lot who run around NL spamming us with no source.

@ the emboldened: says a person who does not know what objectivity & historical evidence are.

GUMY:
Now, you can kindly discuss alone since you have already reached the point of complete illogical talk.
I knew this might happen. You place an ethnocentric yoruba with proof that he is full of it, and then his only way out is to throw away logics.
Now "maps are not really maps, they are just drawings which mean nothing."
OK, have fun in yaba left, tell them I sent you there, they will give you preferential treatment like all the other ethnocentric yoruba whom I sent there.

You are not bright, not in the slightest bit.

You posted maps and quickly interpreted it to mean Benin occupied most of Yorubaland. I ask that you provide texts stating this in support of your interpretations.

If you had any modicum of common sense you would know maps from earlier centuries were drawn to emphasise the point of interest for the explorer and it usually comes with narratives describing what informed the map.

No European Historian has interpreted those ‘maps’ to mean what you said because that would mean exposing their career to ridicule. Until the texts accompanying the maps are provided then they are just drawings. There are maps showing with Gwandu printed from Sokoto all the way across almost into Igbo land and we know Fulani never ventured there in their marauding days. Do we then interprete Fulani occupied there?

Provide European written papers describing Bini, until then allof you on NL have nothing to say just noises.

pazienza:


No such thing in Obingwa bro. Rather what you have are Ngwa people who are bilingual in Igbo and Ibibio for sake of ease in communication and also as a result of intermarriage with Ibibio women as wives.

e
I doubt its due to marriage, because it isnt only Ngwas dat got married to Ibibios, we all know that a large population of Ibibios were present in the area referred to as Abia as early as history recorded

TheGreatJapan:


Zombie you call it Obi Ngwa and still claim they speak Ibibio
Obi Ngwa means the Heart/Centre of Ngwa and Ngwa people are proud Igbo people

Obingwa is the lga name and yes some communities there speak Ibibio, its a fact

pazienza:


And I'm telling you that those fringe communities are at best bilingual and consider themselves Igbos of Ngwa extraction who had been influenced by their Ibibio neighbors.

cc: ChinenyeN

Have you travelled there before or you are making claims from your house

AdaFonju:
e
I doubt its due to marriage, because it isnt only Ngwas dat got married to Ibibios, we all know that a large population of Ibibios were present in the area referred to as Abia as early as history recorded

No Ibibio in Abia state, go take your frustration else where. The stories of Abia State groups are stories of migration from Itu caves of present AkwaCross area into their present location, so I think it's more of Igbos present in Area known as Akwa Cross today, and were for some reasons forced to retreat to present location.

AdaFonju:

Have you travelled there before or you are making claims from your house

Yes, I have been to Obingwa before, and I have friends from Obingwa LGA of Abia state, having stayed in Aba for 4yrs.

You really should stop pokenosing into things you know nothing about.