andrewza:



It won't be a lone roikat. It will be at least 5. There mission and role has not changed. The job the 105mm would do in South Africa is done better by the Olyphant and ingwene launchers of the rate and badger.


We not excepting the roikat to attack defended positions alone.

But assaulting flanks or cutting-off heavy armour from being reinforced by medium or light armour would also work with the kat, for that a bigger gun would also help. Doing 4 Rooikats behind enemy lines has its disadvantages, they're big and noisy and would leave too much dust no go unnoticed, you'd honestly scout better with a minibus taxi coz you'll look the part.


As for the Ingwe ATM, let's be honest here, how many missiles do you think could be used in a conventional war? Just 50 of those fired would leave the Army with no money for the rest of the operation, unless your objective is to fire less than 10 and scare the enemy to surrender.

ActivateKruger:


It was probably delivered by some tenderpreneur, all he had to do was to paint it brown, Defenceweb didn't get the memo.

I'm inclined to agree. I asked around and everyone was just as surprised. The Logs guys seem to have gone on a frolic of their own.
The whole point to Projects Vistula and Sepula running concurrently was that the replacements for SAMILs, Casspirs and Mambas would have the same drive-line (engine, gearbox, axles, tyres and suspension). This would ease maintenance and reduce component replacement cost.

POSTSCRIPT: Someone's just suggested they are for testing and evaluation, judging by the prominent Bell branding on the sides.

ActivateKruger:


But assaulting flanks or cutting-off heavy armour from being reinforced by medium or light armour would also work with the kat, for that a bigger gun would also help. Doing 4 Rooikats behind enemy lines has its disadvantages, they're big and noisy and would leave too much dust no go unnoticed, you'd honestly scout better with a minibus taxi coz you'll look the part.


As for the Ingwe ATM, let's be honest here, how many missiles do you think could be used in a conventional war? Just 50 of those fired would leave the Army with no money for the rest of the operation, unless your objective is to fire less than 10 and scare the enemy to surrender.

That's a different type of recon. The Kat is rookat by fire. The mini bus style is the more covert style that the scout troops, pathfinder and Recce, s would do.


A platoon is 4 to 5. It does not mean all of them are in a convoy behind each other.

The 76mm gun means more ammo witch is useful behind the lines doing raids and it still packs enough punch to deal with most threats.



Do you expect us to fire 50 ATGMs. If we fighting a full on war our budget would get a boost. The worst case intervention right now is a civil war or some kind of intervention. None of our neighbors have any real armor in numbers. Really only the Angolan army has enough tanks and good enough tanks to warrant 50 ATGMs. They all so a close ally.


If we had to do a intervention like the French did in Mali the 76mm would be more than enough. The lighter ammo means more could be flown to front for example.

Frumentum:

I'm inclined to agree. I asked around and everyone was just as surprised. The Logs guys seem to have gone on a frolic of their own.
The whole point to Projects Vistula and Sepula running concurrently was that the replacements for SAMILs, Casspirs and Mambas would have the same drive-line (engine, gearbox, axles, tyres and suspension). This would ease maintenance and reduce component replacement cost.

POSTSCRIPT: Someone's just suggested they are for testing and evaluation, judging by the prominent Bell branding on the sides.

I don't think they for the SAMIL replacement. They could just be engerinering vehicles that are at ASB Kimberly.

ActivateKruger:


That's not how they're being used today. It might have been developed for long range recorn but that's not really possible in the 21st century, warfare has changed. A lone Rooikat inside a fully capable enemy would be dead meat and the SANDF generals new that as soon as the Bush War ended. No one bothered with the 105 Rooikat because in the 90s we were certain that we were getting those 100+ MBT with the Arms Deal. The new MBTs never came, then we would have to supplement the Olifants with something and the Kat is the only thing that can fit the 105 turret without falling on weight. Truth be told, it's highly needed so it be used on flanks in a tank vs tank war.

What Andrew said

He kinda stole my response!!

I cannot ever recall a time when the allocation to the Recces ever decreased!!!
FY2018/19 is a first.

Frumentum:
I cannot ever recall a time when the allocation to the Recces ever decreased!!!
FY2018/19 is a first.

Could be due to the fact they not haveing a selection or training this year. I mean that training cost a lot of money.

If you remember this blackHawk, it finally got tested yesterday. A friend who works at technical support sent me the video of the rotors starting. Just forgot the email I used for my YouTube channel.

Pic 1. Sourced from the net
Pic 2. My screenshot

Maybe you're wondering what the fuss is all about, it's because it's the only BlackHawk in SSA Africa.

GreenandGold:
Maybe you're wondering what the fuss is all about, it's because it's the only BlackHawk in SSA Africa.

With another one to join the fire-fighting WhiteHawk shortly .

Frumentum:


With another one to join the fire-fighting WhiteHawk shortly .

It could have been yellow like all the Heuys at the airport

GreenandGold:


It could have been yellow like all the Heuys at the airport

Glad they kept it white. Imagine calling it YellowHawk

Wait? There's another one coming? Should look for land next to the old airport now.

ActivateKruger:


That's not how they're being used today. It might have been developed for long range recorn but that's not really possible in the 21st century, warfare has changed. A lone Rooikat inside a fully capable enemy would be dead meat and the SANDF generals new that as soon as the Bush War ended. No one bothered with the 105 Rooikat because in the 90s we were certain that we were getting those 100+ MBT with the Arms Deal. The new MBTs never came, then we would have to supplement the Olifants with something and the Kat is the only thing that can fit the 105 turret without falling on weight. Truth be told, it's highly needed so it be used on flanks in a tank vs tank war[b][/b].

Exactamundo! That's actually why fast wheeled AFVs of this type were invented.

GreenandGold:
Wait? There's another one coming? Should look for land next to the old airport now.

Yep, there's a 2nd one coming. Do you know if they've finished with the cockpit upgrade they've been busy with?

tdayof please respond to your DM... thanks

Rooikat is also used for fainting attacks and probing enemy lines for weaknesses. Think of a boxer faking a left hook and then hitting you with a right.

The decision not to go for the 105mm came pretty much straight from the guys at armor. It wasn't a budget issue. They could have had a 105mm on the Kat from the beginning.
For most of it mission mobility is its main weapon, not the size of the gun. The 76mm allows for much more ammo and its easier to handle for the loader allowing quicker followup shots. a 105mm Kat would also be considerably heavier.
SOP is to only use up to 2/3s of your ammo in a attack. The rest is kept in reserve. If you get lower than that during an attack and you still haven't reached your objective its time to start planning your tac retreat. If you press through and end up taking your target, you need at least that much in reserve to deal with counter attacks otherwise you're pretty much f-ed.
Tactically, the Kat would benefit much more from the in-hub electric drive they developed for the CVED Rooikat. They could easily triple the stealth "silent mode" range if they used modern batteries. In the bush that's like having a F-22 with wheels.

The SANDF would be much better of integrating the Ingwe on the Rooivalk like they originally planned. I don't see them ever having money to buy Mokopa in decent numbers. Standardizing on one missile would mean more in inventory and should bring down the unit price.
Even more useful would be a new beam-riding SHORAD missile the used the same launcher as the Ingwe. Maybe you could adapt a RBS-70 to work with the Ingwe launcher as they use the same guidance. This would allow you to swap out rounds on your vehicle or Attack helicopter as the treat changes from air to ground.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm8N6eQBFIA

andrewza:




That's a different type of recon. The Kat is rookat by fire. The mini bus style is the more covert style that the scout troops, pathfinder and Recce, s would do.


A platoon is 4 to 5. It does not mean all of them are in a convoy behind each other.

The 76mm gun means more ammo witch is useful behind the lines doing raids and it still packs enough punch to deal with most threats.



Do you expect us to fire 50 ATGMs. If we fighting a full on war our budget would get a boost. The worst case intervention right now is a civil war or some kind of intervention. None of our neighbors have any real armor in numbers. Really only the Angolan army has enough tanks and good enough tanks to warrant 50 ATGMs. They all so a close ally.


If we had to do a intervention like the French did in Mali the 76mm would be more than enough. The lighter ammo means more could be flown to front for example.

You're pretty much spot on with your treat assessment. There are sub-Saharan countries with significant numbers of tanks, but its not just a question of equipment. They do not do the type of training that you'd need to conduct division level combined arms mechanized operations. Even if they decided to go in that direction, it would take a well funded military at least 10 years of large scale training maneuvers to build up the institutional knowledge and officers corps to get to a level where you could take on a pier enemy.

Its debatable if even the SANDF is still able to field a fully worked up division that could operate at this level. At worst the "bone structure" for such a force still exist in the SANDF and it could be resurrected at short notice if need be. The SAAF ,for example, doesn't have the nr's of attack aircraft needed to do ground attack, CAP and recon at the same time for an extended period. Keep in mind you cannot have all of your aircraft in the air all the time. Minimum CAP alone would be hard to maintain if you do the math.
As for armor, even though we have a decent tank in the Olifant, we do not have the capability to deploy them. The necessary support vehicles for tank recovery etc. were never purchased, so they're pretty much there just to keep our tank crews trained.

andrewza:




That's a different type of recon. The Kat is rookat by fire. The mini bus style is the more covert style that the scout troops, pathfinder and Recce, s would do.


A platoon is 4 to 5. It does not mean all of them are in a convoy behind each other.

The 76mm gun means more ammo witch is useful behind the lines doing raids and it still packs enough punch to deal with most threats.



Do you expect us to fire 50 ATGMs. If we fighting a full on war our budget would get a boost. The worst case intervention right now is a civil war or some kind of intervention. None of our neighbors have any real armor in numbers. Really only the Angolan army has enough tanks and good enough tanks to warrant 50 ATGMs. They all so a close ally.


If we had to do a intervention like the French did in Mali the 76mm would be more than enough. The lighter ammo means more could be flown to front for example.

Great video showing how the Rooivalk 20 mm canon is slaved to the helmet mounted sights.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZjNjPtPeEs

Basic Special Forces Training Cycle complete, after 57 gruelling weeks. During the qualification parade - always held at night - these guys get their berets and Operator's badges. From here, based on assessments and conversations with instructors, they go to appropriate operational Commandos (Squadrons in SAS/SBS & Delta speak) within 4 or 5 Recce. The Advanced Training Cycle in their chosen area of specialisation awaits, even though they're now Recce Operators.

Fun Fact: During the war in Angola, they had to go on a mission before they could call themselves Recce Operators.

Looks like they're shooting practice 20mm ammo. Probably for spectator safety.
HE would be even more impressive.

saengine:
Great video showing how the Rooivalk 20 mm canon is slaved to the helmet mounted sights.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZjNjPtPeEs

saengine:
Great video showing how the Rooivalk 20 mm canon is slaved to the helmet mounted sights.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZjNjPtPeEs

This is what makes the Rooivalk a deadly bird to throw rounds at cause of it's high slew rate and low reaction time.

Anyway! Here's the Rooivalk's ancestor! An old Denel video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8q-GMxnYNk

61mech:
Looks like they're shooting practice 20mm ammo. Probably for spectator safety.
HE would be even more impressive.

Danger close!!!

Frumentum:


With another one to join the fire-fighting WhiteHawk shortly .

WhiteHawk? The black ones will be hating on it

kikuyu1:


Exactamundo! That's actually why fast wheeled AFVs of this type were invented.

They should make us Generals in this forum, our tactical knowledge is unmatched.

NB : I'm picking no fight.

Frumentum:
Basic Special Forces Training Cycle complete, after 57 gruelling weeks. During the qualification parade - always held at night - these guys get their berets and Operator's badges. From here, based on assessments and conversations with instructors, they go to appropriate operational Commandos (Squadrons in SAS/SBS & Delta speak) within 4 or 5 Recce. The Advanced Training Cycle in their chosen area of specialisation awaits, even though they're now Recce Operators.

Fun Fact: During the war in Angola, they had to go on a mission before they could call themselves Recce Operators.

11 guys made it through the selection, I envy them. They fear non nut God.

ActivateKruger:


11 guys made it through the selection, I envy them. They fear non nut God.

This is the cycle from which the guys emerged:
1)Pre-selection -->2)Selection -->3)Basic Training Cycle.
From 1 to 3, it's usually 200 guys to about 10.

Selection is unearthing the rough diamonds. BTC is 57 weeks of cutting; every single week people get dropped and returned to their units. Advanced Training Cycle(ATC) through the Commandos is polishing.

So no, at this stage, Selection is a long-ago memory. During BTC they are simply SF Candidates who have to prove themselves every week for 57 weeks

PIC: BTC candidates on a 90km kayak training towards the ocean dealing with the current, crocodiles, hippos and sleeping in their kayak all while remaining tactical and performing recon tasks.

Impressive!!!!

MikeCZA:
This is what makes the Rooivalk a deadly bird to throw rounds at cause of it's high slew rate and low reaction time.

Anyway! Here's the Rooivalk's ancestor! An old Denel video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8q-GMxnYNk

MikeCZA:
This is what makes the Rooivalk a deadly bird to throw rounds at cause of it's high slew rate and low reaction time.

Anyway! Here's the Rooivalk's ancestor! An old Denel video:

I love the early 90's Denel videos that sound like late-night infomercials. Cheesy music and dodgy production values and all.
Check out this one for the NTW-20:
"And you get a barrel-changing tool and a 2-man carry pack thrown in!" Classic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXLRYf9EV2Y

saengine:
Great video showing how the Rooivalk 20 mm canon is slaved to the helmet mounted sights.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZjNjPtPeEs

Impressive slew rate.

61mech:
I agree fully, the G-7 would fit in perfectly with a Stryker Brigade.
That system can also provide direct fire support unlike any of the other options.
The modular charge system is still a problem for the US army. Thats why they didn't want to bite the last time.
Get the feeling from reading the article that they don't really know what they want though.

If they're serious this time, it would be enormously helpful to Denel to again team up with General Dynamics and finally bring LEO to completion.
Dug up the JV presentation from back then.