CapitalCee:

quote author=elrony post=65636625]My main observation is that our players are lazy during pressing, except Lingard and Herrera!

If 80% of them can give the kind of energy those 2 give repeatedly, then I woulda comfortably be blaming oga Mou 100%.

you know I made mention of Lingards contribution to the team, but it was not well highlighted. during the last game, he was taken back to deputise for Valencia, at wing back, he took it gracefully and caused their defence a lot of trouble. the young man has been used at RWF, LWF, AM and SS all these season, in each instance, he keeps his head down to perform for the team. That's playing for the badge not for yourself. I remember Rooney being juncketed across the attack and even in central midfield during fergie days, in all those times, you won't even notice he is playing out of position, he still plays his heart out. That's why till tommorow my love for the guy is everlasting. Most of our players now are whinners and sulkers, play them in a position where bodies are need, they will immediately become moody and begin to ask for a transfer, just like Mkhi. I once rem ember the day we trail West ham by 2 nil at half-time, Fergie moved pa Giggs to left back to initiate attack from there, he did well. it surprises me when fans call out the managers for daring to use a player out of his "comfort zone". Sorry if as a forward you can't play everywhere across the attack, then you are limited. Pogba will not make fergie's first 11 TBH, despite his talent for example

Who bought Pogba?

eph12:

What about how Fergie played against the smaller teams? We not talking about a one off but week in week out even with technically limited players.

Who bought Lindeloff? Smalling that we love to criticize was nominated for player of the month last month, I wonder who was bribed.

[ author=eph12 post=65643554]
Who bought Pogba? [/quote]

you are trying so hard to blame the manager, while exonerating the players. Ok he is at fault.

CapitalCee:


you are trying so hard to blame the manager, while exonerating the players. Ok he is at fault.

Where did I exonerate the player? Last season I was on Pogba's case. If you employ a digger you will see my posts on this.

United's matter has been sort of a dilemma. Most people blame the coach, others say the players are at fault. But something is definitely wron somewhere.

I for one, think the coach should take majority of the blame, although the players cannot be totally exonerated. The defensive frailties were there at the beginning of the season when we were bamboozling other teams with four goals. We have lacked the tenacity to press before Mou came and we still don't know how to press. I'm talking about the kind of pressing Liverpool gave City at Anfield. It's not only about escorting the opponents and blocking spaces (which we're poor at), you have to get a bit closer and make tackles, you know, kick the ball out of their feet. We hardly do this.

Our good defensive record was achieved by pilling up bodies behind the ball, which kills the attack. With more mobility we will defend better and attack better.

And although Fergie did set up his team to defend sometimes against top opposition, the response and counter attacks after minutes of defense were always brilliant and usually covered for the minutes watching your team defend. It isn't the same with Mourinho. And the truth is that he does set up his team to defend against even lesser oppositions.

Maybe Mourinho is bent on building a special type of team or maybe he's simply senile, I don't know.

Let's blame the team. Let's blame Val, Smalling, Lindeloff, Young, Mats, Pogba, Matic, Sanchez, Martial, Lingard, Rashford, Lukaku, who else? Everyone is bad, let's change all of them. The John Does at Westbrom Stoke Newcastle Crystal are far better than our players so we can't afford to attack them. Counter is the best way to play Swansea, it's how Jose has been winning his trophies.

That was fun

humblesteve:


I don laff tire

Laugh wan kee me, on top say i be Ronaldo fan o

eph12:
Let's blame the team. Let's blame Val, Smalling, Lindeloff, Young, Mats, Pogba, Matic, Sanchez, Martial, Lingard, Rashford, Lukaku, who else? Everyone is bad, let's change all of them. The John Does at Westbrom Stoke Newcastle Crystal are far better than our players so we can't afford to attack them. Counter is the best way to play Swansea, it's how Jose has been winning his trophies.

DON'T YOU DARE INSULT THE DEFENSIVE MASTERCLASSES!!!

eph12:

We look at other managers and their identity and tactics is there. Do you know what exactly is Mourinho's tactics or game plan?

[img]https://media1./images/90b8ca520b7c1f416d0ad4490d67179c/tenor.gif?itemid=4816126[/img]

[img]https://media1./images/4f3dbea7c0091f07884f643369f00606/tenor.gif?itemid=3439367[/img]

eph12:

Where did I exonerate the player? Last season I was on Pogba's case. If you employ a digger you will see my posts on this.

you are correct she. the manager have to motivate the players. That's his job. Sometimes it will be me like I should go in there and land pogba a dirty slap. we all know what he can do. but he just don't care. look at Lukaku, Lingard, Valencia, DDG even smalling . some of them may lack the talent. but they put in their best. I have problem with Pogba and sadly Martial in this regard, they esp. Pogba plays for his selfish inteest

No one is trying to exonerate Mou here or defending him but if you can't see past your bias for Mou and analysis a team yoy watch week in week out then I don't think there's any other reason to continue this discourse.

There's no where in planet earth you could blame a manager for his players being unable to trap a ball or pass a simple through ball. live football is not pes18 where you have the remote control and control where your players pass too. haba, tone down on this criticism biko. It's !better we know when to appropriate blame to the manager or the players. When you see other team players giving in their best in whatever position they are deployed, once Mou tries that shit, our players begins to sulk and play shit upandown and you start hearing why can't Mou play him here or there or here. Mou is always the problem, the players are perfectly fine.

eph12, can you please provide us with stats that proof that we are parking the bus against lesser opponents, I mean show us the stats to show that we park the bus against Newcastle, Swansea and the likes. I'm waiting.

Sigh. It's complicated..

CapitalCee:


I will keep saying this. even SAF played counter attacking football against the likes of arsenal, ceding possession and hitting the opponent. the majority of the times SAF team play high pressing game is usually against the canon fodders. against the top teams fergie is conservative. mourinhos tactics needs runners and fighters added with ruthless finishers to excel. players like Martial who sulks easily, Pogba who is petulant like a girl and error prone Lindeloff and Smalling are not mourinho kind of players, he is just using them because there are few options.

Did Fergie play counter attack against teams like Swansea?

Who purchased Sanchez?, is he not a fighter?

In need of ruthless finishers, then went on to purchase Lukaku, oh well.

Who purchased Pogba and Lindelof?

I'm going to be as transparent as possible, all these blame game makes no sense again, Mou has always been a defensive coach and he will not change it because that's what brought him to his managerial level in soccer, only issue is that things are evolving and some tactics aren't producing as much as before. Even Barca's (a.k.a Spain 2010) famous tiki taka was exposed by Pep himself when City beat Barca 3-1, other teams will naturally look to lock up against Barca and let them have the ball but Pep made his players mark Pique and Co from the goal kick spot so as to force costly mistakes from them. Don't see this as praising Pep o!, i'm only showing how much things are evolving so much that even tiki taka now has some sort of counter tactics.

In my opinion, i think it's a rebellion given Mou's record with the lockerroom or the overpaid players.

Leyqute:
Sigh. It's complicated..

Bro, nothing is complicated here, both our managers and players deserve any stick they get though to me Mou will take 60% of the blame while the players get 40% of the blame. There's one thing to have a game plan, it's another thing for the players to execute the game plan. I think we just by default that we park the bus, it's like a reoccurring theme here that needs to be addressed. Yes we do park the bus in some match and that's down to Mou but saying we park the bus against even lower opposition is a fallacy. Our players being lazy did not start today, even under the great Sir Alex, we employ this same tactics of zonal marking, we have never been known as a team that does ghen ghen pressing so it's not like it started with Mou.

The fallacy that must be put to bed is that we park the bus against lower opposition. Heck we had 64% possession against Newcastle (the one we lost) so how can we have that high possession if we park the bus.

Against Swansea when we won 4 nil
59% possession 17 shots 8 shots on target
How did we park the bus or play conservative against Swansea.

Larride, do you think the possesion vs Crystal Palace after you went down 2-0 was the same as when the game was 0-0

I can bet, you dominated possesion more the time you went behind and were trying to win the game?

When you need goals Mourinho usually make the team dominate possession vs when the team didnt need goals e.g vs Southampton that you won 1-0 Lukaku scored in the 22nd min and possession stats showed it was Southampton 61% Man Utd 39%

Find games you scored early and see the possesion stats or if you can get games the possesion when you were trailing vs when you were level or leading

So the question now is WHy wait until you are trailing before attacking and dominating possession

Larride I never said we parked the bus against smaller teams.
This is what I said. Pay attention to the highlighted.

eph12:

I will understand that if I see a livid coach on the stand, not someone with a smug on his face sitting on the bench and waiting for the team to be in real trouble or time running out.

The team is useless everyone says, but one of the major culprits was brought in by him. Does it mean Mourinho cannot find a way to make Pogba a weapon or he is insisting on a particular style for Pogba? Off the ball movements are learnt in training because you have an idea of what your guy is most likely to do with the ball. It must have been practised many times in training. Do you see anything like that?

Does the zonal marking account for the poor way we attack unless we are pushed to a corner? We play too narrow, too close to the central, which makes it easier for defence to manage, only Rashford tries to stretch the team. But when he is with the ball, his options are limited. I look at the 18 and i can only see one or two red shirts even when we are looking for a goal. The players should be pouring forward but something is holding them back, and our manager is not there to push them forward.
Parking the bus is different from playing counter football. If the team is playing counter football we expect to see bodies rushing forward to join the attack and then fall back to defend. But this team has problem with both falling back and rushing forward.

We have almost 150m worth of players in the middle but we allow small boys press us like breast for almost half of a match time. This is because they don't know what to do with the ball when they have it so they lose it without making use of it. We play with the ball around for a short time and when the opponents have it, you see purpose. I mean did Jose spend that much money on midfield so his team can play this nonsense they are playing?

I will continue to believe he is satisfied until I see him on the stand barking orders at his players.

Mourinho can't afford to change the whole team. Everybody is saying buy Griezeman, buy Dybala lol like we can buy everybody

@Dayo, don't be mischievous abeg.

We all know that not all teams play football at the same pace, some team prefer slow build up play especially against teams that park the bus, you have to be patient and just build play slowly until an opening comes and you take it. Check most of our match with the lesser teams and you will see that most tactics they employ is to hit us with counter whenever they have the ball, they quickly run at us whenever they have the ball and since we are not known as a team that does ghen ghen pressing that's why most people think that we are always being conservative against lesser opponent but that's not the case.

Even during Fergie days, you see them slow the tempo of the match so has to control the match. That we don't attack until we go behind is a big lie which the hatred for Mou from among some section of our fans has bought it hook, line and sinker.

eph12:
Let's blame the team. Let's blame Val, Smalling, Lindeloff, Young, Mats, Pogba, Matic, Sanchez, Martial, Lingard, Rashford, Lukaku, who else? Everyone is bad, let's change all of them. The John Does at Westbrom Stoke Newcastle Crystal are far better than our players so we can't afford to attack them. Counter is the best way to play Swansea, it's how Jose has been winning his trophies.

That was fun

Unless you want to tell me you were sleeping when you type this, then I guess you have to proof it. Where re the stats that we park the bus or we didn't attack when we play Westbrom, stoke, Newcastle and the likes. I'm waiting.

Some fallacy needs to be bare open.

The team only needs one person to lead and coordinate the midfield and every other player will be sorted.
Jose thought Pogba was a player he could mould into another Lampard, however he was wrong.
Pogba has huge talent, but little intelligence. That's why De Bruyne will always be far ahead of him, even though he is less talented than Pogba
Intelligent players are ones that can make impact, even when the game is not going the team's way or theirs, just like Messi
It seems someone told Jose, if he claims to make Lampard, then he should make another Frank, but Pogba will never be that player.
Because I can't see what his initial obsession with Pogba is.

Seconded:



"I think Liverpool and United both want to finish in the top four but we both want to finish second, so I think it is a big game, and then we have the Sevilla knockout and Brighton knockout games to come so we have three important matches coming up at Old Trafford.

"If possible, we should give some tickets to the all the United fans that were [at Selhurst Park]. They were great and we need the most passionate fans with us at this crucial time"




Jose mourinho............MUTV

larride:
@Dayo, don't be mischievous abeg.

We all know that not all teams play football at the same pace, some team prefer slow build up play especially against teams that park the bus, you have to be patient and just build play slowly until an opening comes and you take it. Check most of our match with the lesser teams and you will see that most tactics they employ is to hit us with counter whenever they have the ball, they quickly run at us whenever they have the ball and since we are not known as a team that does ghen ghen pressing that's why most people think that we are always being conservative against lesser opponent but that's not the case.

Even during Fergie days, you see them slow the tempo of the match so has to control the match. That we don't attack until we go behind is a big lie which the hatred for Mou from among some section of our fans has bought it hook, line and sinker.

You think this is mischievious? 39% possesion vs Southampton just because you scored early
our pace of play does not determine possesion, Barcelona of uardiola played at slow pace This City play at fast pace both dominate possesion

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41290316

Too brain drained to read epistles at the moment, buh I'm sure we all are clamouring for improvement no matter how our opinions differ!

#GGMU

raumdeuter:


You think this is mischievious? 39% possesion vs Southampton just because you scored early

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41290316

How did we score in the first place if we don't attack until we go behind? I don't seems to understand you my big egbon.

Newcastle that defeated us 1 nil that everyone said we couldn't go out and attack had 39% possession also. Explain that.

elrony:
Too brain drained to read epistles at the moment, buh I'm sure we all are clamouring for improvement no matter how our opinions differ!

#GGMU

That's it. we all wants improvement in the team but it is criminal to think or say that Mou is the architect of all our woes.

jose is shit, jose is dis jose is dat, Liverpool with ghen ghen pressing behind Jose's park de bus united and are trophyless for 3seasons now, Tottenham with genius poch that destroyed madrid and juve behind Jose's park de bus and are trophyless for how many seasons now?? but of course jose is shit, he parks de bus every now and then against the sotons nd eyinmbas of dis world, doesn't know how to attack and is a coward


at least no matter the tears, e no fit still develop wings fly go u.k

larride:


That's it. we all wants improvement in the team but it is criminal to think or say that Mou is the architect of all our woes.

Why we want to blame the manager rightly for some tactical approach deployed, the players too deserve a portion of blame as well for some shiity performances we witness on match days.

larride:


How did we score in the first place if we don't attack until we go behind? I don't seems to understand you my big egbon.

Newcastle that defeated us 1 nil that everyone said we couldn't go out and attack had 39% possession also. Explain that.

That a team scored does not mean they were dominating play. Thats why the term "against the run of play" came from and counter attacks


Newcastle is a defensive team that came for a draw, the moment they were fortunate to get a goal all their attacking ambitions died and they were glad to leave possession for Man Utd. Man Utd also at that time realized they needed to attack and score 2 goals so they ramped up possesion

If there is a way to see the stats, Check your possesion stats before Newcastle scored and after they scored and you became desperate

weedtaker:
jose is shit, jose is dis jose is dat, Liverpool with ghen ghen pressing behind Jose's park de bus united and are trophyless for 3seasons now, Tottenham with genius poch that destroyed madrid and juve behind Jose's park de bus and are trophyless for how many seasons now?? but of course jose is shit, he parks de bus every now and then against the sotons nd eyinmbas of dis world, doesn't know how to attack and is a coward


at least no matter the tears, e no fit still develop wings fly go u.k

You don change dealer?

Rooting for Spurs! !!

They better not bottle it!!!

weedtaker:
jose is shit, jose is dis jose is dat, Liverpool with ghen ghen pressing behind Jose's park de bus united and are trophyless for 3seasons now, Tottenham with genius poch that destroyed madrid and juve behind Jose's park de bus and are trophyless for how many seasons now?? but of course jose is shit, he parks de bus every now and then against the sotons nd eyinmbas of dis world, doesn't know how to attack and is a coward


at least no matter the tears, e no fit still develop wings fly go u.k

How much is spurs wage bill compared to Man Utd

elrony:


You don change dealer?

Lmfao!!!

larride:


Unless you want to tell me you were sleeping when you type this, then I guess you have to proof it. Where re the stats that we park the bus or we didn't attack when we play Westbrom, stoke, Newcastle and the likes. I'm waiting.

Some fallacy needs to be bare open.

You don't notice a difference in our play when we are on trouble?