butterflylion:


Already being done. Or you think there are no Christians in China or Saudi Arabia?

We are not like atheists who hide behind online forums to make noise. We back our talk up with action.

rinrin23:
Freethinking is not a cult or religion that you convert to.

Your "already being done" scheme is to subdue people into adopting your self and clan determined "superior" religion.

A freethinker does not think he/she superior, but capable of seeing things from multiple vantage points and thereby gaining unrivaled insight into a matter.
The more you seek (multi and not unidirectional), the more you shall find.

I agree some atheists and freethinkers make noise here just as much as the religionists.
However, what I have been able to observe in my many years of being on this platform is that the silent ones, the ones that force you
to think, without prejudice or an underlying motive to convert you, usually are the most enlightened on the matter. And would rather have you reason your way into belief or unbelief as the case may be, by asking questions and dropping hints.

This way you find your own way to enlightenment,
as opposed to being told what to do and what to think.

So as for shouting at the rooftops, let's evolve past worshipping the loudest vessel. We know how the saying goes

sexybaby22:


For me I have grown/evolved not to be bothered with what people think about me just because I see life from a different perspective . I refuse to follow the norm, but to be myself.

butterflylion:


Now it's they are minority

I thought you assumed they were none and asked me to go there.

Those who are there are preaching and winning new converts. In Saudi Arabia the population has grown to almost 3 million with some coded.

In China it's on record that the christian population is rapidly spreading and China is close to experiencing the biggest boom in Christianity for a long time in that country. And this is projected to happen by 2030.

The so called minority are making a huge change.

rinrin23:


Freethinking is not a cult or religion that you convert to. Your "already being done" scheme is to subdue people into adopting your self and clan determined "superior" religion.

A freethinker does not think he/she superior, but capable of seeing things from multiple vantage points and thereby gaining unrivaled insight into a matter. The more you seek (multi and not unidirectional), the more you shall find.

I agree some atheists and freethinkers make noise here just as much as the religionists. However, what I have been able to observe in my many years of being on this platform is that the silent ones, the ones that force you to think, without prejudice or an underlying motive to convert you, usually are the most enlightened on the matter. And would rather have you reason your way into belief or unbelief as the case may be, by asking questions and dropping hints. This way you find your own way to enlightenment, as opposed to being told what to do and what to think.

So as for shouting at the rooftops, let's evolve past worshipping the loudest vessel. We know how the saying goes

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man who asketh you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear.

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free

superhumanist:



It is illegal to preach christianity in Saudi.
In China, if you preach the wrong way, you are gone. Your religious doctrine is approved by the government.

And don't just put out daft statistics that mean nothing. A projected outcome is not an actual outcome and secondly, the chinese population is growing, and so, any percentage of the population will grow along too.


Please, as long as you havent lived in china or saudi, please shut up and stop derailing this thread with your ignorance. Please,

3 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart

butterflylion:



LMAO

2 Corinthians 3:1-3 King James Version (KJV)



You actually think we must always preach with words or with our mouth right? If that was what you were thinking then you have no clue what we are capable of.

superhumanist:



Yet you advised someone to shout his beliefs from the mountain top.

Please refrain from quoting me. I am getting allergic to a particular kind of bullcrap

butterflylion:


Wrong. Your post has nothing to do with what I said and nobody is claiming superiority over anyone. In the case of Christianity the message is L-O-V-E as recorded in John 3:16.

Saying anyone is being "subdued" is just silly. Subdued with what? Ropes? Chains?

The ones who embrace Christianity ALSO did their own thinking and arrived at their own decision AFTER they received the message. Nobody forced them into anything.

EVERYONE asks questions and EVERYONE thinks. Christianity does not oppose questioning or thinking. In fact 1st Peter 3:15 declares



Regarding your talks about a freethinker not seeing himself or herself as superior is an error of humongous proportions. Pride is prevalent in every human and freethinkers are chief. They assume that they "think logically" more than anyone so stand aloof of everyone else. Nobody can see things from multiple angles and be right about any angle which to you is seen as UNRIVALLED INSIGHT. Even your choice of words here such as the word UNRIVALED stinks of arrogance and pride.

Who says you are unrivalled? Who measured it for you?

Who says what you claim you know is even anything worthy of mention and that others do not know much more than you do? Who says you are right? YOU?

Just like 2nd Timothy 3:7 said




How do you know that the truth you arrive at is actually the right truth? Simply because you said so to yourself? Life is governed by selfish intents and often times people would lean towards what they favour even if it means HATING others for it.

Your so called freethinking isn't free. In itself it is caged by the human mind and its many manipulations and selfishness and can NEVER be free UNLESS MADE FREE.

John 8:31-31




The greed,selfishness, hatred, anger, spite, and other vices in man cannot enable us to set ourselves free through freethought. This is a huge farce.

rinrin23:


Freethinking is not a cult or religion that you convert to. Your "already being done" scheme is to subdue people into adopting your self and clan determined "superior" religion.

A freethinker does not think he/she superior, but capable of seeing things from multiple vantage points and thereby gaining unrivaled insight into a matter. The more you seek (multi and not unidirectional), the more you shall find.

I agree some atheists and freethinkers make noise here just as much as the religionists. However, what I have been able to observe in my many years of being on this platform is that the silent ones, the ones that force you to think, without prejudice or an underlying motive to convert you, usually are the most enlightened on the matter. And would rather have you reason your way into belief or unbelief as the case may be, by asking questions and dropping hints. This way you find your own way to enlightenment, as opposed to being told what to do and what to think.

So as for shouting at the rooftops, let's evolve past worshipping the loudest vessel. We know how the saying goes

rinrin23:


Freethinking is not a cult or religion that you convert to. Your "already being done" scheme is to subdue people into adopting your self and clan determined "superior" religion.

A freethinker does not think he/she superior, but capable of seeing things from multiple vantage points and thereby gaining unrivaled insight into a matter. The more you seek (multi and not unidirectional), the more you shall find.

I agree some atheists and freethinkers make noise here just as much as the religionists. However, what I have been able to observe in my many years of being on this platform is that the silent ones, the ones that force you to think, without prejudice or an underlying motive to convert you, usually are the most enlightened on the matter. And would rather have you reason your way into belief or unbelief as the case may be, by asking questions and dropping hints. This way you find your own way to enlightenment, as opposed to being told what to do and what to think.

So as for shouting at the rooftops, let's evolve past worshipping the loudest vessel. We know how the saying goes

MuttleyLaff:
Wow, wow, wow.
Am turned into a siren all of a sudden

butterflylion:

The greed,selfishness, hatred, anger, spite, and other vices in man cannot enable us to set ourselves free through freethought. This is a huge farce.

budaatum:

That's an odd definition of Freethinking!¿

Consider wiki below.



Freethought (or "free thought"[1] is a philosophical viewpoint which holds that positions regarding truth should be formed on the basis of logic, reason, and empiricism, rather than authority, tradition, revelation, or other dogma. In particular, freethought is strongly tied with rejection of traditional social or religious belief systems. The cognitive application of freethought is known as "freethinking", and practitioners of freethought are known as "freethinkers". The term first came into use in the 17th century in order to indicate people who inquired into the basis of traditional religious beliefs.

butterflylion:


I did not define freethinking. My comment was not as a definition but a focus on man and how we walk around in a mental cage while assuming we are free.

Nobody as a so called freethinker can be definite about anything since reason is always logically thrashed and logic itself can be infinite.

So where do they draw the line since they have allegedly "broken the boundaries" as it were.

budaatum:

There are some who completely abandon reason and logic and who are not open to the views held by others. and who claim that what they know, is.

There are some also on here who take the stance you profess, "not definite about somethings anything since reason is always logically thrashed and logic itself can be infinite".

My question however is, what are these so called, boundaries?

budaatum:
[img]https://intelligentchristianfaith.files./2017/03/yourenotafreethinkerif.png[/img]

butterflylion:


I did not define freethinking. My comment was not as a definition but a focus on man and how we walk around in a mental cage while assuming we are free.

rinrin23:


A cage is something that confines (keeps or restricts someone or something within certain limits). In this case you said mental cage, doesn't religion/tradition etc restrict your thinking within certain limits? Or is it freethinking that does this?

butterflylion:


The individual determines what his "boundaries" are and would individually know when he or she breaks it.

butterflylion:


What I am saying is that EVERYONE is restricted INCLUDING the so called freethinker.

Trying to shift this to religion and tradition isn't what your OP is about is it?

butterflylion:


What I am saying is that EVERYONE is restricted INCLUDING the so called freethinker.

Trying to shift this to religion and tradition isn't what your OP is about is it?

rinrin23:


A cage is something that confines (keeps or restricts someone or something within certain limits). In this case you said mental cage, doesn't religion/tradition etc restrict your thinking within certain limits? Or is it freethinking that does this?

rinrin23:


Oh. I didn't realize you meant EVERYONE since you quoted John 8:31-31 which implies otherwise.

butterflylion:


What I am saying is that EVERYONE is restricted INCLUDING the so called freethinker.

Trying to shift this to religion and tradition isn't what your OP is about is it?

budaatum:

So, if I break boundaries, what exactly is the problem? Is that not what a freethinker claims they do, break boundaries, whoever's they may be?

TheLastDon1:


I agree whole heartedly with your comment. I would like to point out that this situation is similar to the 12 blind men who had to describe an elephant from touch.As you already know, each was right and all where wrong because they described just a single facet of a big picture. See the big picture and all arguments disappear. All these moral schemes were made for man, and should be judged on the basis of their utility to the individual and humanity. Beliefs are as diverse as people and no size fits all. The responsibility to find what fits, lies with the individual. The belief that the individual has no choice is the biggest evil. There is a choice. Not making one is also a choice.

I see no point comparing apples to oranges!!!!
If we accept this point we can move to more productive conversations like
1)what are the pitfalls of free thinking and how can it be remedied.
2)what is the best way to raise children?

TheLastDon1:


I agree whole heartedly with your comment. I would like to point out that this situation is similar to the 12 blind men who had to describe an elephant from touch.As you already know, each was right and all where wrong because they described just a single facet of a big picture. See the big picture and all arguments disappear. All these moral schemes were made for man, and should be judged on the basis of their utility to the individual and humanity. [/b]Beliefs are as diverse as people and no size fits all. The responsibility to find what fits, lies with the individual. The belief that the individual has no choice is the biggest evil. There is a choice. Not making one is also a choice.Sticking to parental teachings is a choice.Sticking to what gives power is a choice.Sticking to what gives life meaning is a choice.Sticking to what gives respect in society is a choice.We need to accept that a choice was made.

Making an argument for things that was created by geniuses years ago is futile, we can only guess at their wisdom. [b]It is far more useful to give testimonies of the peace and fulfilment your choice has brought.

I chose freethinking, it has brought me clarity and ridded me of guilt. It has not taught me compassion or kindness or love or forgiveness.It gave me understanding but not emotional satisfaction. I am still searching in church, mosque music for the completeness I know is out there.

I see no point in comparing apples to oranges!!!!
If we accept this point we can move to more productive conversations like
1)what are the pitfalls of free thinking and how can it be remedied.
2)what is the best way to raise children?

butterflylion:


How do we know we have arrived if not told?

butterflylion:


An original square can make itself into a triangle through the rigours and torment passed through via experiences and can force itself to be in the place meant for a rectangle and not even a triangle while telling itself that after all what matters is that the base fits and not all the form.

The rest I wish to say has been said on my last post.

budaatum:

We check for ourselves, perhaps, and subject what we are told to in-depth scrutiny? Or are you suggesting we should just accept what we are told?

budaatum:

My immediate response would be, how does an "original square....make itself into a triangle"? Is that even possible?

But not I think I don't at all understand what you wrote there.