butterflylion:


These are the lies we tell ourselves in order to fit in. We are not entirely who we seem yet we still try to sell this lie to each other. We are not rectangles or triangles but presume to be when indeed we are squares. Until we know who we are and where we are going we cannot know what to do with us and how to get to where we are meant to be.

Who then tells us what we seek? Still flawed humanity?

On the assumption that we seek anything at all, Who then tells us what we seek?

butterflylion:


It's a closed loop. Our flawed humanity would never scrutinise outside of self and outside of that which appeals to our selfish desires and leanings of comfort.

You must agree that not all that is pleasant or sweet is good for us.

None of us knows anything except we are told. Nothing just pops up as a thought or an impression. Who holds the answers to these thoughts and impressions? You? Me? Another flawed human?

I hold the responsibility to find answers to my thoughts and impressions. And I should use all my means to seek for them, flawed as I may be.

budaatum:

On the assumption that we seek anything at all, Who then tells us what we seek?

That's my entire point. It's a closed loop. Our source, interim and end is unfathomable by us on our own because we were not there at the beginning and can never see tomorrow. All we know is now and now is not enough when wanting to know as a certainty.

budaatum:

I hold the responsibility to find answers to my thoughts and impressions. And I should use all my means to seek for them, flawed as I may be.

Who then would tell you if your answers are right or wrong when the responsibility is yours and you are flawed?

butterflylion:


That's my entire point. It's a closed loop. Our source, interim and end is unfathomable by us on our own because we were not there at the beginning and can never see tomorrow. All we know is now and now is not enough when wanting to know as a certainty.

But you certainly know that there is God.

This is how you contradict yourself up and down.

You keep pointing out the limitations of human thought and knowledge but when it comes to your belief in God, your knowledge is certain.


You ironically pointed out how freethinking supercedes your religious thinking- the illusion of certainty

superhumanist:



But you certainly know that there is God.

This is how you contradict yourself up and down.

You keep pointing out the limitations of human thought and knowledge but when it comes to your belief in God, your knowledge is certain.


You ironically pointed out how freethinking supercedes your religious thinking- the illusion of certainty

How you arrived at this is beyond me and I find it shockingly funny.

I do not think you know what subliminal messages are. Jesus practiced this a lot obviously from the many parables he told, this is obvious and I have been doing same.

If you read what I write here literally you will get it twisted and it's obvious you applied no thought regarding:

1. The foundation of the person typing this

2. His foundation for interaction

3. His motive

4. The subtle words deliberately included in his sentences.

If you did then you would not have said the above. But you obviously did not think AT ALL.

I am still laughing at your words in bold though. It makes for good comic relief

butterflylion:


Who then would tell you if your answers are right or wrong when the responsibility is yours and you are flawed?

I would understand that I might be flawed, and that others too might be as flawed as I am. And so, keep seeking until I am more certain.

butterflylion:


That's my entire point. It's a closed loop. Our source, interim and end is unfathomable by us on our own because we were not there at the beginning and can never see tomorrow. All we know is now and now is not enough when wanting to know as a certainty.

So I say, "I don't know", regarding the beginning i know nothing about.

And I say "perhaps", about tomorrow, though I am much less uncertain about that. I for instance know I will eat a leg of lamb tomorrow. I know this because it is my plan to eat a leg of lamb tomorrow. I even went to the shop yesterday and bought the leg of lamb and put it in the fridge. And it is still there.

I think I know a bit about tomorrow, wouldn't you agree. I know for certain for instance that you will very likely post on here tomorrow!

butterflylion:


These are the lies we tell ourselves in order to fit in. We are not entirely who we seem yet we still try to sell this lie to each other. We are not rectangles or triangles but presume to be when indeed we are squares. Until we know who we are and where we are going we cannot know what to do with us and how to get to where we are meant to be.

Who then tells us what we seek? Still flawed humanity?

There is no place that anyone is meant to be. Nowhere is reserved for anyone. We justle and hustle to make space for ourselves.

No one tells 'us' what we seek! Or rather, some may have been told what they should be seeking, but most of us chose what we want to seek by our selves.

budaatum:

So I say, "I don't know", regarding the beginning i know nothing about.

And I say "perhaps", about tomorrow, though I am much less uncertain about that. I for instance know I will eat a leg of lamb tomorrow. I know this because it is my plan to eat a leg of lamb tomorrow. I even went to the shop yesterday and bought the leg of lamb and put it in the fridge. And it is still there.

I think I know a bit about tomorrow, wouldn't you agree. I know for certain for instance that you will very likely post on here tomorrow!

You and I know I am not referring to eating or shopping or posting. Those things are fleeting. If the future or the past was all about eating and shopping and posting then we wouldn't be having this conversation would we?

What you know about tomorrow are things you plan to do or become but not things you are sure to do or become. We are talking about life in its deepest form. What's the meaning of life if all we do is eat, shop and post all fun stuff but regardless of all the fun we gather around ourselves we are always still left with a vacuum which caused us to still seek and question. Are we ever satisfied? How can we be when we hold no answers to the puzzle called life.

If we are not told, we do not know anything.

budaatum:


I would understand that I might be flawed, and that others too might be as flawed as I am. And so, keep seeking until I am more certain.

Never will and never can! Like I said its a closed loop. All you would do would be to keep going round in a circle.

budaatum:

There is no place that anyone is meant to be. Nowhere is reserved for anyone. We justle and hustle to make space for ourselves.

No one tells 'us' what we seek! Or rather, some may have been told what they should be seeking, but most of us chose what we want to seek by our selves.

Who says anyone does anything BY THEIRSELVES? Who says we are not being teleguided through subtle prodings and events and conversations which are tailored to drift us to what we should become and not based on our choices.

Who says our reaction of empathy and care to a poor person was our choice to make and not the choice of something else which also pulls on the strings of the poor man.

Who says where you say you hustle and justle to make space for yourself wasn't your space to begin with and your hustling and justling was part of the preparation process for you to be a better fit for that space?

butterflylion:


Never will and never can! Like I said its a closed loop. All you would do would be to keep going round in a circle.

Surely one can be certain of some things. You and I have been here before, I think.

I am certain that after I post this particular post, there will be a point in time in the future where you will read it, breath in and breath out a few times, after which you are very likely to post a response, quoting or at the least referencing the exact words or some thereof, that I am currently writing, which by the time you get to this! particular point would be it the past, even moreso by now.

I am certain of what I have written above. Are you saying, 'one can never be certain at all'?

butterflylion:


How you arrived at this is beyond me and I find it shockingly funny.

I do not think you know what subliminal messages are. Jesus practiced this a lot obviously from the many parables he told, this is obvious and I have been doing same.

If you read what I write here literally you will get it twisted and it's obvious you applied no thought regarding:

1. The foundation of the person typing this

2. His foundation for interaction

3. His motive

4. The subtle words deliberately included in his sentences.

If you did then you would not have said the above. But you obviously did not think AT ALL.

I am still laughing at your words in bold though. It makes for good comic relief

Subliminal messages! You would do/say anything to protect yourself. You must be quite an interesting fellow offline.

It seems you are well on your way to mastering the art of running around in circles.

butterflylion:


Who says anyone does anything BY THEIRSELVES? Who says we are not being teleguided through subtle prodings and events and conversations which are tailored to drift us to what we should become and not based on our choices.

Nothing is to say so. But lets limit those things to influences. They don't exactly make choices for me. I still apply my ability to reason, I hope.

butterflylion:

Who says our reaction of empathy and care to a poor person was our choice to make and not the choice of something else which also pulls on the strings of the poor man.

I may be influenced in my choosing, but the ultimate choice is mine. I chose, for instance, to be nice and respectful to you (most of the time). I am very capable of insulting you too, as you very well know. I do however think that it is I that prods you to be regarding towards me in our current conversation. And I am very certain I can prod you to be rude towards me too.

It is my choice to be either a bastard or saint, and even to determine if others are bastardly or saintly towards me. I tend to reap pretty much what I sow, I guess.

butterflylion:

Who says where you say you hustle and justle to make space for yourself wasn't your space to begin with and your hustling and justling was part of the preparation process for you to be a better fit for that space?

The space was waiting for me and I just had to fit into it? Sounds like predestination to me. But that's ok, though I have nothing to indicate that a place is made ready for me to fit into it. Like I said, my current 'place' is to regard you. It turns on the proverbial sixpence. I can very easily chose otherwise, to hustle and justle to be a bastard, so to speak, and even to determine if you are to be bastardly or saintly towards me.

butterflylion:


Never will and never can! Like I said its a closed loop. All you would do would be to keep going round in a circle.

I don't mind being diligent in my search for certainty, where it matters to me. The gain is mine in the long run.

butterflylion:


How you arrived at this is beyond me and I find it shockingly funny.

I do not think you know what subliminal messages are. Jesus practiced this a lot obviously from the many parables he told, this is obvious and I have been doing same.

If you read what I write here literally you will get it twisted and it's obvious you applied no thought regarding:

1. The foundation of the person typing this

2. His foundation for interaction

3. His motive

4. The subtle words deliberately included in his sentences.

If you did then you would not have said the above. But you obviously did not think AT ALL.

I am still laughing at your words in bold though. It makes for good comic relief

See how you just avoided the issue.

Anyway, keep comparing yourself to Jesus with subliminal messages. Lol.

rinrin23:


Subliminal messages! You would do/say anything to protect yourself. You must be quite an interesting fellow offline.

It seems you are well on your way to mastering the art of running around in circles.

You are obviously guilty of the same error superhumanist is guilty of. I know what I am writing and why. I deliberately use certain words and this is to cause the reader to do some pondering (deliberately).

I repeat if you read my comments literally you would miss the point.

budaatum:

I don't mind being diligent in my search for certainty, where it matters to me. The gain is mine in the long run.

How can you speak of gain if you never had anything to begin with? How many who are dead can boast of gain? You can only be diligent if you knew what you were seeking after but do you?

It's like the Bible says, " what shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world yet looses his soul".

Where is your gain if in the long run you still loose it?

butterflylion:


You are obviously guilty of the same error superhumanist is guilty of. I know what I am writing and why. I deliberately use certain words and this is to cause the reader to do some pondering (deliberately).

I repeat if you read my comments literally you would miss the point.

You must really like smelling your own shite.

superhumanist:



You must really like smelling your own shite.

For someone who claims to be a freethinker you are clearly not the brightest bulb in the class

butterflylion:


For someone who claims to be a freethinker you are clearly not the brightest bulb in the class

That's your problem. You think you are the smartest one in the room.

You really think you can fool everyone with your antics?

superhumanist:


That's your problem. You think you are the smartest one in the room.

You really think you can fool everyone with your antics?

When did holding logical discussions become "fooling" anyone? Or those times you allegedly held logical discussions with people were you fooling them with your antics?

I never claimed to be the smartest at anything. How you drew this inference again is beyond me.

butterflylion:


When did holding logical discussions become "fooling" anyone? Or those times you allegedly held logical discussions with people were you fooling them with your antics?

I never claimed to be the smartest at anything. How you drew this inference again is beyond me.

There is nothing logical about your discussions that are laced with sophistry and emotional blackmail.

Simply put, atheists and other unbelievers are discriminated against in Nigeria. We are a tiny minority and it can be lonely at times. A simple fact that cannot get through your thick skull

superhumanist:



There is nothing logical about your discussions that are laced with sophistry and emotional blackmail.

Simply put, atheists and other unbelievers are discriminated against in Nigeria. We are a tiny minority and it can be lonely at times. A simple fact that cannot get through your thick skull

Kindly remind yourself when using logic to engage Christians that yours ate not laced with sophistry and emotional blackmail

This OP is not about discrimination. Everyone at some point gets discriminated against so stop squawking.

It's nobody's fault you are a small minority is it?

You are still not the brightest bulb in the class.

butterflylion:


Kindly remind yourself when using logic to engage Christians that yours ate not laced with sophistry and emotional blackmail

This OP is not about discrimination. Everyone at some point gets discriminated against so stop squawking.

It's nobody's fault you are a small minority is it?

You are still not the brightest bulb in the class.

I see that you haven't travelled outside Nigeria.

The typical local Nigerian doesn't understand the true meaning of discrimination.

superhumanist:


I see that you haven't travelled outside Nigeria.

The typical local Nigerian doesn't understand the true meaning of discrimination.

I guess only foreigners understand the action and the definition of discrimination. You must be a foreigner or a frequent miles traveller. No vex o. Some of us have never left our own backyards.

butterflylion:


I guess only foreigners understand the action and the definition of discrimination. You must be a foreigner or a frequent miles traveller. No vex o. Some of us have never left our own backyards.

You would understand if you live in a country that has anti-discriminarory laws

superhumanist:



You would understand if you live in a country that has anti-discriminarory laws

I guess we all should assume that Nigeria does not have any such laws shall we?

Constitution of Nigeria, Article 17: Equality and Protection from Discrimination

(1) The State social order is founded on ideals of Freedom, Equality and Justice.

(2) In furtherance of the social order-

(a) every citizen shall have equality of rights, obligations and opportunities before the law;

(b) the sanctity of the human person shall be recognized and human dignity shall be maintained and enhanced;

(c) governmental actions shall be humane;

(d) exploitation of human or natural resources in any form whatsoever for reasons, other than the good of the community, shall be prevented; and

(e) the independence, impartiality and integrity of courts of law, and easy accessibility thereto shall be secured and maintained.

(3) The State shall direct its policy towards ensuring that-

(a) all citizens, without discrimination on any group whatsoever, have the opportunity for securing adequate means of livelihood as well as adequate opportunity to secure suitable employment;

(b) conditions of work are just and humane, and that there are adequate facilities for leisure and for social, religious and cultural life;

(c) the health, safety and welfare of all persons in employment are safeguarded and not endangered or abused;

(d) there are adequate medical and health facilities for all persons;

(e) there is equal pay for equal work without discrimination on account of sex, or on any other ground whatsoever;

(f) children, young persons and the age are protected against any exploitation whatsoever, and against moral and material neglect;

(g) provision is made for public assistance in deserving cases or other conditions of need; and

(h) the evolution and promotion of family life is encouraged.

butterflylion:


I guess we all should assume that Nigeria does not have any such laws shall we?

Ogbeni, you know what I meant. What you quoted is

1. Not practiced in reality in Nigeria.
2. Too general to be enforced

Edited

3. Does not guarantee religious freedom from discrimination

superhumanist:


Ogbeni, you know what I meant. What you quoted is

1. Not practiced in reality in Nigeria.
2. Too general to be enforced

Maybe we also do not have a legal system in Nigeria and if per adventure we do, they are not bound by our constitution and in fact lawyers who use our constitution as a guide in Human Rights abuse cases are illiterates and unrealistic people

Yeah I believe you.

butterflylion:


Maybe we also do not have a legal system in Nigeria and if per adventure we do, they are not bound by our constitution and in fact lawyers who use our constitution as a guide in Human Rights abuse cases are illiterates and unrealistic people

Yeah I believe you.

A country that has a secular constitution but still operates Sharia law.

Ogbeni, you are clearly lacking in intelligence if you really think that Nigeria has anti-discriminarory laws that protect religious rights.