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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief (20811 Views)
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Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by vaxx: 1:08pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
FeelDeMusic:According to Yoruba cultural myth, we also believe they are some unseen natural element that dwells in the tree , rocks and some other mystical dwelling places, they are called EBORA, IWIN, egbere.... there is a myth that if you can collect egbere mat, you will suddenly become rich, this egbere cries without pause. that is just is nature |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by vaxx: 1:32pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
CuteMadridista:yoruba traditional religion is monotheistic , there are no several gods in yoruba tradition, what we have is simply orisha when you put it into Yoruba syllable, it is spell like this... ori- ti- a- sha(meaning, the head we specifically selected)traditionally our believe system is characterized by a deep sense of the interdependence of all life. “Every life form and element of Nature has an inner soul force – including rivers, rocks, clouds, metals, flowers, thunder, and the wind. These natural energies that comprise are symbolically represented by the orisha. most of the orisha were once with us... for example. orunmila is from oke igbeti , he has a wife known as apetebi likewise sango the son of aganju and so many more of them that has earthly biological background like i and you. |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by vaxx: 1:55pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
CuteMadridista:this needs to do with dialect, both are technically the same, in addition . the definition of OLO-DU-TO -MARE in his deeper meaning means the owner of the container of creation and his great blessing, olodumare is a single creative force. The Universe in it’s entirety springs from that single source.this is where it differ from deistic concept and that of pantheism we regard the Orisa as energy and not Olodumare . we believe he is a consciousness. A consciousness big enough to encompass the entire of creation. Everything we know is part of Olodumare, as is everything we are yet to discover. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FeelDeMusic: 1:59pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
vaxx:Hmmmm, interesting... so not really creatures like trolls or gnomes or whatever, more like different energies? |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FeelDeMusic: 2:01pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
FOLYKAZE:I agree that everything has its own ase, or energy, similar to the concept of "chi" in Chinese spirituality. However, are you proposing that Esu is in fact, or at least has the capacity to be evil? Why is this? |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by Nobody: 2:12pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
vaxx:there is nothing to analyse,I didn't get your reply and I'm asking you to give a clear one |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by vaxx: 2:54pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
FOLYKAZE:let me put some enlightenment here, in the domain of ajala mopin , some irreversible decision were made which are both physical and spiritual , the physical decision include your gender, race, color DNA, blood group and some other element you have no control over, while the spiritual side are made in two area which are Apari-inu represents character; Ori-Apere represents destiny. Destiny itself is also divided into three areas: Akunleyan, Akunlegba, and Ayanmo. Akunleyan is the request you make at Ajale's domain- what you would like in specifics during this lifetimes. The number of years you wish to live, the kinds of success you hope to achieve, the relationships you desire, the wisdom you seek to accumulate. Akunlegba are those things given to you to help you achieve these things. Both Akunleyan and Akunlegba can be modified or enhanced by symbolical sacrifice and ritual throughout our lives. Ayanmo is that part of our destiny which cannot be changed: our gender, race, sexuality etc. APARI INU , your character can never be changed unless bad habit is doped in favor of good habit.... therefore the ajogun and his symbolic war lords are necessary to appreciate and understand the concept of benevolent universe, instantiation of evil are the handwork of natural being.... imagine if there is no death, how will you appreciate birth, if there illness how will you appreciate good health, if there is no poverty, how will you appreciate wealth......it is all for the purpose of a balance society..... as good as rain might be, imagine a 365 days of a year non stopping rain without a stop, will farmers still called it good? All these opposite effect of mankind are necessary for a balance society as they are not necessarily anti olodumare.... as you put it... nothing like demons in Yoruba cosmology , it is fabrication to suit biblical or Islamic concept. 2 Likes |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by vaxx: 3:37pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
FOLYKAZE:I never said olodumare is anthropocentric, i said the center notion of man is anthropocentric. i will oblige you to read my comment again... deism understanding of GOD is simply his acknowledgement, with a position that he does not intervene with what he created but this is differ from Yoruba cosmology that posit that Olodumare is the (discern-er of hearts—‘he who sees the inside and the outside of man’.) He is active in celestial and terrestrial affairs, Olodumare is able to do all things; he is the enabler of all who achieve any ends. this is why praises and prayer are render to him by babalawo before anything is done, mo juba akoda , mo juba aseda(olodumare]though olodumare has no temples of worship nor does he have consecrated priests, But all ifa priests give offerings and give reverences to him. olodumare conveys his will and order to the children consecrated to the orisha of Orunmila. ALL animal apart from human are lower conscious being ALL force which you may term as evil and good were also created by him too, including death . At first men did not die. They grew to an immense size, after which they shrank into feeble old people. Because there were so many of them around, so men prayed to Olodumare , begging him to free them from long life, and in this way the old ones died." just to balance the system |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by vaxx: 4:04pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
shadeyinka:i just said it there is nothing like anti god in Yoruba traditional believe.... every thing is created for a particular purpose....if you rephrase your question like how do babalawo carry out spiritual cleansing because of any opposite occurrence, i may give you the preamble. |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FeelDeMusic: 4:20pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
vaxx:Wow, interesting! So ajogun are more like man-made creations as a result of their bad behavior and the genral opposits of life? If so this is pretty interesting and revealing.... |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FOLYKAZE(m): 4:34pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
FeelDeMusic: Yes, it has capacity to be evil because he control the Ajoguns; and can be the best thing. |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by shadeyinka(m): 4:44pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
vaxx: I speak with respect to the messengers of Esu( Ajoguns) They are malevolent (I call them demons). Demons do no good to anyone (maybe let's not consider whether they are anti God or not) hence Christians do not negotiate with them nor appease them; instead, we force them out. Now my question is when these malevolent spirits from Esu are afflicting a person, apart from appeasement, do Yoruba ATR also force them out? If yes, how? 1 Like |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by vaxx: 4:46pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
FeelDeMusic:He is not getting it that way, he is seeing ajogun as supernatural being with other opposite of life as being on their own..... forgetting that , yoruba ATR uses an expression called symbolical format... that is why we represent egungun as an ancestor... egungun are simply human being who hide under the cover of a mask... they are just symbolical representation , yoruba also uses stones to represent esu, iron to represent ogun, thunder to represent shango etc... |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FOLYKAZE(m): 5:02pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
vaxx: The question is does HE interfare directly with Mankind and the physical world? If yes, tell us how and if No, that approves he his deistic. vaxx: Ifa holds that everything that exist has an Ori. And it is known that Ori in Yoruba is consciousness. Hence, everything, including animals and inanimate are conscious. Yoruba philosophy is centered on panpsychism vaxx: What ![]() ![]() ![]() Death is not evil? Sickness is not evil? Hunger and disease is not evil? Barrenness and lots are not evil? I have not heard or read about any generation that rejoice over sickness, death and epidemic diseases. And the point you laid that people do not die is an unholy junk from Abrahamic religion. Death is an integral part of existence as it. While it is not the complete end, Yoruba people believe that it is a point of transition to Ajule Orun into the ancestors realm. Yoruba people have long believe that the physical realm is a market place and heaven is the home. How do we return home if not through death? And there is no verse in Ifa that postulate that at a point in the past, man does not die. So I do not really understand where you came about your submission that one does not die at first. Where is that from? Oyeku meji speaks more on death. That corpus is termed the baba yeku yeku. I havent notice what you said in that Odu once. Maybe you can help with a verse. Thanks |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FOLYKAZE(m): 5:04pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
vaxx: We will like to know the benevolent side of Iku (death). Thanks |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FeelDeMusic: 5:06pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
Folykaze, are you an Ifa believer? Shadyyinka, are you a Christian? CuteMadridista, what are you? I'm not asking this out of malace, just wanting to know beliefs so that I can get a better perspective here on where everyone is coming from. @Vaxx, interesting response. |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FeelDeMusic: 5:07pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
FOLYKAZE:Ok. So Esu is sort of both good and bad? Hmm. |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by vaxx: 5:07pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
shadeyinka:when affliction befall a man, the first things the babalawo do is consulting ifa (oracle) to a ascertain the reason behind the calamity, since individual ori are difference, so the person ori will determine what the babalawo will do, it may be simple ritual cleaning in form of ebos and prayer or simply . a lay down instruction so that the person will not commit taboo. sometimes this calamity are blessing in disguise, and to be noted the ebos is a symbolical representation,no orisha eat sacrifice.... the most important is droping bad habit for good ones....that is why it normally comes with taboo ... |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FOLYKAZE(m): 5:13pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
vaxx: All you've written above is hogwash. No one is denying the natural representation of Orisha. While we know that Osun is a water (h20) on the surface, there is more to it on the spirtual aspect when we dig more. So you telling us that Egungun is simply man who hides under the veil brings to the point that you know absolutely nothing about ATS. Simply tell us what ajogun is and their benevolent attribute to existence |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FOLYKAZE(m): 5:17pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
FeelDeMusic: A spiritual athiest with a passion for Isese. Not an Olorisha but an adherent |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FOLYKAZE(m): 5:18pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
FeelDeMusic: Everything have the positive and negative aspect. Esu also bless person |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by CuteMadridista: 5:36pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
FeelDeMusic: I am an atheist but I have an inquisitive mind as I love hearing both sides of a story before making a conclusion (Almost)Every info I have on the Yoruba Traditional belief has been given to me by people from the Abrahamic faith and they may not be in the best position to give authentic info on ATR without being blinded by the bias brought about by the religion they belong to |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by vaxx: 5:39pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
FOLYKAZE:i will prefer you watch your tongue when replying me, pls i deserve to be respected just like you did. you can simply type you disagree.... by giving me reasons which i should explain... first of all the Yoruba do not have a "heaven" that the dead roam around in and chat to each other as you are insinuating . Such a place is completely superstitious. you need to be able to seperate superstitious believe from the original one... The Yoruba word "orun" does not equate to heaven but just means the spiritual realm. It is not a "place" but a part of the dual aspect of the one world which is a union of the physical and spiritual. when a person dies, they don't go to a "heaven" but their spirit lives on thru you. They literally live in your blood. A part of their spirit eventually finds another genetic relative to reincarnate thru via the blood/DNA. This is the practical understanding of the egungun as the spiritual aspect of your physical DNA and not the human being that cover himself in mask The Egungun's role is only to help us carry out the plans we have devised. Only Egungun (revered ancestors) can do this; they are distinct from just Egun (ancestor, any dead person). When one becomes Egungun, they have the power to positively help you via your veneration of them. so it is not the person in mask but the revered ancestor... their thought, their heroism while they were alive... read my post again, i have explain in details the concept of ajogun.... pls i will not be repeating myself....i will only be explaning what i have not touch.... i cannot be going in cycle... 1 Like |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FeelDeMusic: 5:41pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
FOLYKAZE:Ok.. so yes and no? You don't really believe in God but you enjoy the Yoruba spiritual system, am I correct? |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by CuteMadridista: 5:44pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
I'd appreciate it if we keep arguments to as minimal a level as possible |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FOLYKAZE(m): 5:48pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
FeelDeMusic: I enjoy the philosophy |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FOLYKAZE(m): 6:05pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
vaxx: You are only distorting the concept of Orisha by eliminating the real essence and this cannot be accepted. When a body of water in Ondo state has a dedicated shrine and purported force called God by adherent, it is an insult for someone to write some junk calling that God ordinary water. You buddy should be the one that needs to apologise for calling the Deity of some people simply 'a man hiding under veil'. vaxx: Baseless. The Egungun dwell in Orun. Everyone knows that what I am referring to Heaven is Orun of the Yoruba cosmo. vaxx: My dear, you do not just create words without any reference to Ifa. All you wrote up there is absent in Ifá. The dead ones can always be call upon through oro. This is what Ifa said. And when they are called upon, they respond as Alaye. Also they can be invoked to amend or appease on behalf of his/her heirs. vaxx: When one speak from both sides of his mouth, he loses his respect. Were you not the one that said Egungun is simply a man hiding behind a veil? To the emboldened, the ritual, atonement and ceremony for Egungun is all because of thoughts, heroism and achievements while they were alive? Where do you get this nonsense from? vaxx: All you have written in your previous post doss not address my question. What is Ajogun and please tell us the benevolent aspect of Ajogun |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by vaxx: 6:34pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
FOLYKAZE:cutemadridista, i am dropping my pen here... maybe the new dude can educate us or what do you think? |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by vaxx: 6:37pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
vaxx:cutemadridista how do understand this, is there any problems with been sincere while writing. i am trying as much as possible to separate superstition from reality.....that is only what i did here |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FOLYKAZE(m): 6:38pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
vaxx: The thread is for you and a question has been thrown at you. Do us a favor by telling us what Ajogun is and the benevolent aspect of Ajogun. You even madd some think Ajogun is Manmade. Lord ![]() |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by FeelDeMusic: 6:42pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
LOL! All of this arguing is pointless and stupid. Since I really don't know much about Ifa, I can't attest to Vaxx or Folykaze's posts as truth or not. But as CuteMadridista has said, let's not fight! Please.... ejo, Jẹ kiLẹ gbogbo wa ni ifẹ. |
Re: A Thread Of My Questions To Vaxx on his religion - Yoruba Traditional belief by CuteMadridista: 7:15pm On Mar 12, 2018 |
Let's be charitable with each other please, each person should state his answer and we move to the next one ATR doesn't have a Holy spirit that Christians claim communicates to every Christian so its okay if there are differences amongst ATR believers |
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