Thanks awesomeJ.

I am not sure why there isn't more transparency from CBN around this though. Let's see what happens.

awesomeJ:
.

katamo:
Thanks awesomeJ.

I am not sure why there isn't more transparency from CBN around this though. Let's see what happens.

The issue is from the DMO's refinancing plans. Ordinarily, CBN would have published Q2 calendar on its site since last week.

Pharmtj:
bros just try read small na from page 1 Biko.... lol

tanx boss

MrHighSea:

Seconded

tanx boss

T-Bills Yields Lose 0.07% as CBN Sells N89b OMO Bills
https://www.businesspost.ng/2018/03/13/t-bills-yields-lose-0-07-as-cbn-sells-n89b-omo-bills/

Pharmtj:
bros just try read small na from page 1 Biko.... lol

Sorry but you guys always suggesting that others read from page 1 for every question, I think its not fair and very ridiculous. There are over 400 pages and sometimes the cost of going through 400 pages may be more than the benefit one may get. If I were you, I will rather give a brief answer or not reply at all, it's not nice to simply say read from page 1 (I know already that I can get the information on the thread if i start from the scratch), we aren't talking of 10 pages here, some people are extremely busy and may only need a brief info. In normal standard forums where pages are excessively many, the moderator will typically copy vital information to recent pages, there is a reason for this, or the forum itself have a search feature on threads. I am not suggesting this should be done, however I am saying it's not as easy as you think to read 400 pages, so spare people the "read from page 1 talk".. I didn't have to read from page 1 to understand the little I know now, I have simply just observed. It's a different thing if the information can be found in the last few pages but not when its hundreds of pages behind.

lowkey28:


I'm not against your investment man. You do what you want with your message money.

which one be message money again.. lol

haibe:


Sorry but you guys always suggesting that others read from page 1 for every question, I think its not fair and very ridiculous. There are over 400 pages and sometimes the cost of going through 400 pages may be more than the benefit one may get. If I were you, I will rather give a brief answer or not reply at all, it's not nice to simply say read from page 1 (I know already that I can get the information on the thread if i start from the scratch), we aren't talking of 10 pages here, some people are extremely busy and may only need a brief info. In normal standard forums where pages are excessively many, the moderator will typically copy vital information to recent pages, there is a reason for this, or the forum itself have a search feature on threads. I am not suggesting this should be done, however I am saying it's not as easy as you think to read 400 pages, so spare people the "read from page 1 talk".. I didn't have to read from page 1 to understand the little I know now, I have simply just observed. It's a different thing if the information can be found in the last few pages but not when its hundreds of pages behind.

from the first few hundreds of pages you are good to go, thanks

Pharmtj:
from the first few hundreds of pages you are good to go, thanks

I dont need you help, I wasn't the one who asked the question, I'm just saying sometimes its better not to reply than to reply offensively.

@haibe, how long did it take u to type all that prose.

U need lesser time to skim through previous pages.

Capisce.

awesomeJ:
@Alakwa.
There are banks that'd have rediscounted your bills at the prevailing rates, and that would have been 12% at most for 57 days. Then the amount deducted would have been about 260,000 representing the upfront interest to the new buyer. So you would have been credited with about 13.44m.

But I once read here, someone saying that GTB doesn't rediscount at prevailing market rates, but rather at the rate at which the initial investment was sealed.

So if that's to be the case, the amount debited from your account should have been about 390K, implying that you should have gotten 13.31m back in your account.

As it is now, there's about 260,000 of your money whose whereabouts have no meaningful explanation yet.

Like others have said, you need to contact the bank with questions. Confirm the original amount that they invested for you as well as the discount rates on purchase and at termination.
Maybe the initial investment was a little below 13.7 m, Not likely, but still make sure.

260,000 is more than what some graduates earn in a year!
Plus if you want to dash people money, it shouldn't be banks that makes almost 3 billion naira each working day.

It appears you don't know how the whole thing is worked out when you sell your investment before maturity.

First, you will pay for the excess upfront interest collected for the 364days instead of 364-57days.

Two, you will pay for the upfront interest given to the new buyer of the remaining 57days.

Three, if your investment was with Union Bank, you pay a penalty of 25% of the upfront interest collected initially by you.

Four, you will pay transaction charges for the termination.

For better understanding of this scenerio, pls go to my analysis on page 486 but note that the guy has not told us the rate he bought at the Primary market in May last year which had a CBN stop rate of 18.7% and the rate the 57days tenor was sold to the new buyer on 3rd March this year for me to have been able to give a very close calculation of what he was supposed to be charged at the end of the day.

However, anytime he provides the informations, he can simply remove my assumed %s and replace with the actual ones to arrive at the rough amount. But methinks that he was not cheated expecially if he bought above 18% and sold at over 11%.

I posted it about 4days ago and he has not responded to my inquiries about those actual buy & sell %. So I am inclined to believe that he has understood why he was so debited.

haibe:


I dont need you help, I wasn't the one who asked the question, I'm just saying sometimes its better not to reply than to reply offensively.

I am absolutely in support of not responding at all to such questions that have been answered severally instead of risking being insulted.

I have since learnt my lessons to keep silent on it after being insulted.

TONY56:



It appears you don't know how the whole


. But methinks that he was not cheated expecially if he bought above 18% and sold at over 11%.

I

Boss, T-bills termination is not as complex as you're making it seem.

If you buys bills and you want to rediscount, the only debit from your face value are the new discount and transaction charges. So the other charges you listed don't exist, and the Union bank's 25% too is false info.

If he bought at 18%, and sold at 11%, He would have even made more gains. Remember White Chocolate's experience and the short-selling talks we had.

It's not as complex.

Thanks Mates for all your contribution on the T-bills liquidation, I yield to some of the advice here I have asked the bank to cancel the liquidation, as it will not favor me in any way you look at it . Loosing 650k for a short period of 57 days is a NO-NO situation. The cancellation was initiated and the cash has been debited from my account. I will wait for the original maturity date. Again thanks for all your contribution.


Meaning liquidating T-bills before maturity is not a good one.

Alakwa:
Thanks Mates for all your contribution on the T-bills liquidation, I yield to some of the advice here I have asked the bank to cancel the liquidation, as it will not favor me in any way you look at it . Loosing 650k for a short period of 57 days is a NO-NO situation. The cancellation was initiated and the cash has been debited from my account. I will wait for the original maturity date. Again thanks for all your contribution.


Meaning liquidating T-bills before maturity is not a good one.

That is a nice one. These banks make it huge money through early termination of Treasury bills

awesomeJ:

Boss, T-bills termination is not as complex as you're making it seem.

If you buys bills and you want to rediscount, the only debit from your face value are the new discount and transaction charges. So the other charges you listed don't exist, and the Union bank's 25% too is false info.

If he bought at 18%, and sold at 11%, He would have even made more gains. Remember White Chocolate's experience and the short-selling talks we had.

It's not as complex.

My dear brother, termination of Tresury Bills is very much more than what you are making people to believe. I would have not responded to your post but my keeping mum over it would allow some investors on this thread to believe you and get their fingers burnt.

So, you think you can invest for 364day and get upfront interest based on that and get away with it when you refuse to wait for the investment to mature? CAPITAL NO!!! Where that to be possible, I would have done that and resell just after 30days.

It's exactly as I have stated earlier and I STAND TO BE CORRECTED BY ANYONE WHO HAS TERMINATED TB BEFORE.

Where did you confirm that the caveat of 25% penalty by Union Bank I's false? Do you bank with them?

The person who bank with them and was about terminating his TB told us here that it exists and that it's stated in the hard copy with him, yet you who does not bank with them is telling us that it's not true-meaning that the guy lied to us?

Dear awesomeJ,

Amongst all the Union Bank 25% is not false. It was clearly stated on the proof of Investment given to me which I uploaded same on this thread. I bank with Union Bank and I have 3 Tbills with them, whether they’ve stopped I don’t know, but it was on the proof of investment and it was one of the reason why I didn’t later terminate my tbills last year.

awesomeJ:

Boss, T-bills termination is not as complex as you're making it seem.

If you buys bills and you want to rediscount, the only debit from your face value are the new discount and transaction charges. So the other charges you listed don't exist, and the Union bank's 25% too is false info.

If he bought at 18%, and sold at 11%, He would have even made more gains. Remember White Chocolate's experience and the short-selling talks we had.

It's not as complex.

realjidejamal:
Dear awesomeJ,

Amongst all the Union Bank 25% is not false. It was clearly stated on the proof of Investment given to me which I uploaded same on this thread. I bank with Union Bank and I have 3 Tbills with them, whether they’ve stopped I don’t know, but it was on the proof of investment and it was one of the reason why I didn’t later terminate my tbills last year.

God bless you greatly for that confirmation

TONY56:



My dear brother, termination of Tresury Bills is very much more than what you are making people to believe. I would have not responded to your post but my keeping mum over it would allow some investors on this thread to believe you and get their fingers burnt.

So, you think you can invest for 364day and get upfront interest based on that and get away with it when you refuse to wait for the investment to mature? CAPITAL NO!!! Where that to be possible, I would have done that and resell just after 30days.

It's exactly as I have stated earlier and I STAND TO BE CORRECTED BY ANYONE WHO HAS TERMINATED TB BEFORE.

Where did you confirm that the caveat of 25% penalty by Union Bank I's false? Do you bank with them?

The person who bank with them and was about terminating his TB told us here that it exists and that it's stated in the hard copy with him, yet you who does not bank with them is telling us that it's not true-meaning that the guy lied to us?

If you bought a 364 day paper at 18% discount, and decide to terminate after 30 days. Aside the transaction charges, all that gets debited from your face value is the value of the upfront interest that goes to the new buyer. That'll be about 166k if the rediscount rate stays thesame. You'll get about 834k as termination proceeds.

When you take the approach of subtracting the portion the upfront interest for the remaining period, and again subtracting the value of interest that goes to the new buyer-which are what you listed as 1 and 2 in your initial post, you are merely deducting the same charge twice, that's what needs to be corrected.


On the union bank's issue, The 25% caveat is very likely to be for FDs as UBN isn't the issuer of T-bills.

The CBN issues them, and regulates the market. They specify limits to charges banks can make on customers investing in government securities. So it isn't very likely that a bank would impose such a charge.

realjidejamal:
Dear awesomeJ,

Amongst all the Union Bank 25% is not false. It was clearly stated on the proof of Investment given to me which I uploaded same on this thread. I bank with Union Bank and I have 3 Tbills with them, whether they’ve stopped I don’t know, but it was on the proof of investment and it was one of the reason why I didn’t later terminate my tbills last year.

Really sorry if it sounded like I called you a liar.
What I meant is that that clause is likely to have a mix up with FD premature termination terms. Great to read from you.

Uncle Tony, look at this simple scenario.
Let's say you get hired to do a job for 360 days. You got payment of 180k upfront.
If you decide to give out the job to another after just 30 days.
There'll then be 165k that you haven't earned, and that's the same 165k that's due to the new worker.

You won't remove the 165k twice would you?

Or you could calculate the charges 1 and 2, you listed above using the same rate, see if there's any difference.

awesomeJ:


If you bought a 364 day paper at 18% discount, and decide to terminate after 30 days. Aside the transaction charges, all that gets debited from your face value is the value of the upfront interest that goes to the new buyer. That'll be about 166k if the rediscount rate stays thesame. You'll get about 834k as termination proceeds.

When you take the approach of subtracting the portion the upfront interest for the remaining period, and again subtracting the value of interest that goes to the new buyer-which are what you listed as 1 and 2 in your initial post, you are merely deducting the same charge twice, that's what needs to be corrected.


On the union bank's issue, The 25% caveat is very likely to be for FDs as UBN isn't the issuer of T-bills.

The CBN issues them, and regulates the market. They specify limits to charges banks can make on customers investing in government securities. So it isn't very likely that a bank would impose such a charge.

From this post of yours, I am now convinced that you don't know what it takes to terminate TB prematurely.

There's therefore no need for me to continue to argue with you any further. So whosoever believe you should hold on to your view and when ever they terminate their TB, they will come back here to lick their wounds or keep quiet to avoid being laughed at.

One last question-Have you ever terminated TB before maturity? If yes, can you share the details with us?

After all, @White chocolate shared his details and @realjidejamal who banks with Union Bank has just confirmed above that there is Penal charge of 25% on the upfront interest expressly stated on the certificate of investment. Yet you are still arguing about it all and you do not bank with Union.

I rest my case on this issue and it's left for those who still buy your views on this to do so.

Pls don't refer to me as "Boss" as I am not one and don't claim to be so. Almighty God is the Boss.

I think this issue has been flogged enough.

I have had another look at realdeji's post on this from 1st Nov and indeed I tend to agree that the states terms are NOT for TBills. If you look closely, it makes mention of WHT which is never charged on TBills.

Also the 25% penalty is on EARNED interest. Penalties are typical for most investementa and it is always on earned interest not on total interest I.e only for the period under review prior to early liquidation.

We've all learnt a lot from each other over the years, let's keep it that way please.

Cheers!

Like Tony56 said, his delight is to ensure that whoever comes here picks the most accurate information.
That is what I have as intention too. It's not about me being right and someone else being wrong.

Tony56 listed about 4 charges which tends to make premature termination scary.

But the fact remains that only two of those charges are relevant.

And the most important factor that determines whether or not you lose money is the rediscount rate. Higher, you lose, lower, you gain.

In the case of Alakwa, his rediscount rate must have been at about 30%, hence the ridiculous debit.

Arguments are sometimes healthy, provided no one claims to always be right.

TONY56:



It appears you don't know how the whole thing is worked out when you sell your investment before maturity.

First, you will pay for the excess upfront interest collected for the 364days instead of 364-57days.

Two, you will pay for the upfront interest given to the new buyer of the remaining 57days.

Three, if your investment was with Union Bank, you pay a penalty of 25% of the upfront interest collected initially by you.

Four, you will pay transaction charges for the termination.

For better understanding of this scenerio, pls go to my analysis on page 486 but note that the guy has not told us the rate he bought at the Primary market in May last year which had a CBN stop rate of 18.7% and the rate the 57days tenor was sold to the new buyer on 3rd March this year for me to have been able to give a very close calculation of what he was supposed to be charged at the end of the day.

However, anytime he provides the informations, he can simply remove my assumed %s and replace with the actual ones to arrive at the rough amount. But methinks that he was not cheated expecially if he bought above 18% and sold at over 11%.

I posted it about 4days ago and he has not responded to my inquiries about those actual buy & sell %. So I am inclined to believe that he has understood why he was so debited.

modified:
.I guess nothing could make him lose such so much. There must be more to it.

He ought to have lost a fraction of the interest not the capital...

cc

awesomej
awesomej

Partnerbiz:


The truth is that the guy is mistaken.

He said he invested 13.7m
Got credited now with 13.58 million.
He now subtracted it and said he is losing...
Imagine that..?

He forgot that the face value was in the regions of 16 million assuming it was at 18% (prevailing rate then)

and that he had been paid upfront. So whatever is being deducted now is from his interest.

But he made it look as if he lost his CAPITAL..


The guy lost nothing...

cc

awesomej

Guy isn't mistaken.
He got 13.058m from a 13.7m investment, hence his concern.
13.058 not 13.58

1wolex85:
Why does Gtbank always sat you should write a letter to the branch you opened your account when you want to do tbills

They've never told me that

Pls anybody, Abeg when is d next auction? I thot it was today

alezzy13:
Pls anybody, Abeg when is d next auction? I thot it was today

Auction are most always on WEDNESDAYS! So guess

Alakwa:
Thanks Mates for all your contribution on the T-bills liquidation, I yield to some of the advice here I have asked the bank to cancel the liquidation, as it will not favor me in any way you look at it . Loosing 650k for a short period of 57 days is a NO-NO situation. The cancellation was initiated and the cash has been debited from my account. I will wait for the original maturity date. Again thanks for all your contribution.


Meaning liquidating T-bills before maturity is not a good one.

Not true.....If you understand the workings of Treasury Bills,

You can decide to liquidate before maturity and make money on it..(Capital Appreciation)

This is how banks and discount houses trade Treasury Bills. They dont hold all to maturity!

The trick is to buy when the Yield is high and sell when the yield is low!

2ND QTR TREASURY BILLS CALENDAR....

Prepare for lower discount rates as the FG is redeeming about N500B matured Tbs..