CuteMadridista:


Wrong!

Exodus 21:2-6 (NASB):
2 If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment. 3 If he comes alone, he shall go out alone; if he is the husband of a wife, then his wife shall go out with him.
4 If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall belong to her master, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife and my children; I will not go out as a free man,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to
God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently.

6 years for Hebrew slaves and non Hebrews are to be passed on to children and children's children as property

felixomor:

Use the search bar. Thanks

awesomeJ:


The slaves did have their rights until it was sold by themselves or by someone of influence over them for MONEY.

The slave masters did not kidnap those slaves, they paid to have their services for a stipulated timeframe.

How's that different from modern day employment?

You choose to give up years of your time for your employers pay. Should you then complain that you don't have the liberty to do the things you'd actually want with your time?

And in case you want to say that, at least people can resign from their jobs now, then too slaves could be redeemed. So please, have the right perspective, it was just employment.

CuteMadridista:
I have and the ones I saw are those where y'all were trashed

just mention me on any such thread

DeSepiero:



What the hell did I just read?
You awesomeJ should not resort to such dishonesty in your bid to defend bible. Sincerely, it's appalling that you'd suggest that slavery is no different from employment.

Employment is NOT same as Slavery.

awesomeJ:

Passing slaves to your children, and their own children is the equivalent of leaving a company to your kids. Your employees would become their own employees too.

Imagine someone who's not too familiar with how football clubs are run, reading that clubs loan out players. Sure, he will swear that players were being subjected to a most inhumane form of treatment. But if he pays close attention to the context, he'll know better.

awesomeJ:

This is how you should look at it:
There were those who were bought for seven years-the Hebrews.
There were those who were perhaps bought for their lifetime.

And there were those who were bought for some other time frames.

In any case, there must have been a seller for there to be a buyer.

For someone to decide to sell himself or his relative to slavery, such person's conditions must have been so terrible as to imply that the buyer probably did them the biggest favour.

Think about this. During the slave trades orchestrated by the Britons. If it was able men who chose on their own to sell themselves or their kids to slavery, would you have blamed the Britons?

DeSepiero:



What the hell did I just read?
You awesomeJ should not resort to such dishonesty in your bid to defend bible. Sincerely, it's appalling that you'd suggest that slavery is no different from employment.

Employment is NOT same as Slavery.

awesomeJ:

The slavery that the Bible regulates on was basically employment.

Slavery had a governing contract, so does employment, and buying football players. Technically, football players are merely properties of their various clubs, yet they live more comfortably than most folks without such a contract. This should help you get the right perspectives, when the Bible says that slaves were properties of the masters. Doesn't necessarily mean the relationship was inhumane.

awesomeJ:

Passing slaves to your children, and their own children is the equivalent of leaving a company to your kids. Your employees would become their own employees too.

Imagine someone who's not too familiar with how football clubs are run, reading that clubs loan out players. Sure, he will swear that players were being subjected to a most inhumane form of treatment. But if he pays close attention to the context, he'll know better.

Look at the few examples of relationships that were mentioned of slaves and masters in the Bible, then you'd see obviously that it's nothing short of today's employee/employer relationship.

Look at Joseph, a slave, his job description as a slave was to manage Potiphar's entire enterprise, so much so, that the man only bothered himself with his food. Talk about Joseph being a CEO.

or Look at Abraham. look at how Laban was so happy to see his slave arrive, because that slave was a loaded big boy who had arrived in their home. He was just dashing out expensive stuffs. You think that slave saw himself as being maltreated. Or you think asking him to go free would have meant anything other than a sack from a great job?

dalaman:


Shut up and stop telling lies. Footballers are NOT properties of their clubs. They can terminate their contracts anytime they feel like. Slaves in the bible could not. They are to be treatedas properties. Even their children were to be treated as properties. The relationship was inhumane because according to the bible they were not allowed to own properties, they could be branded, they were not paid any wages etc. They belonged to the master and did what ever the master told them.

CuteMadridista:
Butterflylion and DeSepiero

don't post further as you're not welcome please

thanks for your cooperation

awesomeJ:

The slavery that the Bible regulates on was basically employment.

Slavery had a governing contract, so does employment, and buying football players. Technically, football players are merely properties of their various clubs, yet they live more comfortably than most folks without such a contract. This should help you get the right perspectives, when the Bible says that slaves were properties of the masters. Doesn't necessarily mean the relationship was inhumane.

butterflylion:


At the words in bold, that is wrong. Clauses protect and prevent such terminations. A 5 year clause must be seen through even to the detriment of the club or player.

No player simply just walks away anytime they feel like it.

DeSepiero:


You should rather say that there are similarities in the relationships of Slave/Master and Employee/Employer.
The fact that someone works for me doesn't mean I own the person.

What sort of bible regulations suggests that slavery was employment?

Are you an advocate of slavery? like it happened in Libya.
Is it proper to exchange humans for money?

dalaman:


Football contracts can be terminated and are terminated sometimes. If a 5 years contract is detrimental to a club for example, the player can be paid off and the contract will be terminated regardles of the clauses.

butterflylion:


At the words in bold, that is wrong. Clauses protect and prevent such terminations. A 5 year clause must be seen through even to the detriment of the club or player.

No player simply just walks away anytime they feel like it.

dalaman:


Shut up and stop telling lies. Footballers are NOT properties of their clubs. They can terminate their contracts anytime they feel like. Slaves in the bible could not. They are to be treatedas properties. Even their children were to be treated as properties. The relationship was inhumane because according to the bible they were not allowed to own properties, they could be branded, they were not paid any wages etc. They belonged to the master and did what ever the master told them.

CuteMadridista:


I cut out the rest cuz they're too nebulous

1. Employees in any company can walk at any time, if you work in a company you're free to resign and leave non Hebrew slaves are not allowed to leave if they want to. Big difference!!!
also slaves you bought are not to be paid any wages while employees are paid their wages, another difference!!!

2. Clubs don't just "loan out players" that's a dishonest representation of how loans are done. let me explain for the readers

a. The club tells a player say Kovačić that he's not gonna get game time in his parent club, Real Madrid

b. His agent talks with him and he looks for a club that promises his client game time

c. he finds a club and they negotiate with the parent club on the terms for the loan, who would be paying the player's wages or what percentage each team would pay and the minimum game time the player must be involved in (usually in minutes)

d. the parent club then receives an official bid from the other club, they agree to it subject to the player himself agreeing to the deal

e. the player agrees and he moves for the stipulated duration of the loan. mind you, the player can disagree with the deal at this point if he wants so the final power still belongs to the player himself


This is how loan deals work in football but the slave in the bible has no say on whether they don't want to be sold or loaned. all the power belongs to the buyer and the seller.

I find this reply of yours highly dishonest to say the least

awesomeJ:

Slaves who don't get paid, do not cos they already got their payment upfront.

By the way where did you get that slaves didn't get paid, and where did you read that all non Hebrew slaves had to be perpetual slaves?

DeSepiero:


In slavery, agreements are made between slave master and buyer. The slaves opinion doesn't really count.
Whereas, in employment, agreements are made between employee and employer.
Those are two different things.

butterflylion:


Again wrong! That Is SOLELY a choice to be made by the club and in this case, OWNER of the player.

They weigh player value against offered value and can easily turn it down.

Why do you think some players are loaned to other clubs rather than sold?

Why are players treated as commodities? They are sold, bought, loaned!

These are people being treated same way slaves are based on buying and selling and lending.

CuteMadridista:

Absolutely not! the only payment is between the seller and the buyer so only if the seller decides to have pity on the slave by giving him some change does he/she get something

Bible? Dalaman has already given those verses

awesomeJ:

And no matter how much fancy is put into loaning out football players, that phrase "loan out" is still in the same class as "pass down to children"

awesomeJ:



Look at the few examples of relationships that were mentioned of slaves and masters in the Bible, then you'd see obviously that it's nothing short of today's employee/employer relationship.

Look at Joseph, a slave, his job description as a slave was to manage Potiphar's entire enterprise, so much so, that the man only bothered himself with his food. Talk about Joseph being a CEO.

butterflylion:


Go and read about the year of Jubilee from the same bible about the custom of the Hebrews which entails that ALL SLAVES are freed in that jubilee year.

awesomeJ:



Look at the few examples of relationships that were mentioned of slaves and masters in the Bible, then you'd see obviously that it's nothing short of today's employee/employer relationship.

Look at Joseph, a slave, his job description as a slave was to manage Potiphar's entire enterprise, so much so, that the man only bothered himself with his food. Talk about Joseph being a CEO.

butterflylion:



In the bible context the slaves opinion did count. Best output is always considered per investment made.

A slave is bought for a time as chosen by the slave or as agreed between the slave and his buyer often so the proceeds can be used to better the life of his family or so.

They are not different. What you see is slavery. What I see is the context behind the slavery.

If dangote offered you a Behind house with a lovely brand new SUV and a lump salary so you can be his slave for 7 years away would you say?

To answer this you can ask bobrisky who is someone's deliberate chosen slave for sake of luxury.

butterflylion:



In the bible context the slaves opinion did count. Best output is always considered per investment made.

A slave is bought for a time as chosen by the slave or as agreed between the slave and his buyer often so the proceeds can be used to better the life of his family or so.

They are not different. What you see is slavery. What I see is the context behind the slavery.

If dangote offered you a Behind house with a lovely brand new SUV and a lump salary so you can be his slave for 7 years away would you say?

To answer this you can ask bobrisky who is someone's deliberate chosen slave for sake of luxury.

CuteMadridista:


Post the verses and let's see. believe me I've been here a lot so bring it on. I know what you'll bring but I want you to bring it for discussion's sake

8 “‘Count off seven sabbath years—seven times seven years—so that the seven sabbath years amount to a period of forty-nine years. 9 Then have the trumpet sounded everywhere on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the Day of Atonement sound the trumpet throughout your land. 10 Consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you; each of you is to return to your family property and to your own clan. 11 The fiftieth year shall be a jubilee for you; do not sow and do not reap what grows of itself or harvest the untended vines. 12 For it is a jubilee and is to be holy for you; eat only what is taken directly from the fields.

13 “‘In this Year of Jubilee everyone is to return to their own property.

14 “‘If you sell land to any of your own people or buy land from them, do not take advantage of each other. 15 You are to buy from your own people on the basis of the number of years since the Jubilee. And they are to sell to you on the basis of the number of years left for harvesting crops. 16 When the years are many, you are to increase the price, and when the years are few, you are to decrease the price, because what is really being sold to you is the number of crops. 17 Do not take advantage of each other, but fear your God. I am the Lord your God.

18 “‘Follow my decrees and be careful to obey my laws, and you will live safely in the land. 19 Then the land will yield its fruit, and you will eat your fill and live there in safety. 20 You may ask, “What will we eat in the seventh year if we do not plant or harvest our crops?” 21 I will send you such a blessing in the sixth year that the land will yield enough for three years. 22 While you plant during the eighth year, you will eat from the old crop and will continue to eat from it until the harvest of the ninth year comes in.

23 “‘The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine and you reside in my land as foreigners and strangers. 24 Throughout the land that you hold as a possession, you must provide for the redemption of the land.

25 “‘If one of your fellow Israelites becomes poor and sells some of their property, their nearest relative is to come and redeem what they have sold. 26 If, however, there is no one to redeem it for them but later on they prosper and acquire sufficient means to redeem it themselves, 27 they are to determine the value for the years since they sold it and refund the balance to the one to whom they sold it; they can then go back to their own property. 28 But if they do not acquire the means to repay, what was sold will remain in the possession of the buyer until the Year of Jubilee. It will be returned in the Jubilee, and they can then go back to their property.

29 “‘Anyone who sells a house in a walled city retains the right of redemption a full year after its sale. During that time the seller may redeem it. 30 If it is not redeemed before a full year has passed, the house in the walled city shall belong permanently to the buyer and the buyer’s descendants. It is not to be returned in the Jubilee. 31 But houses in villages without walls around them are to be considered as belonging to the open country. They can be redeemed, and they are to be returned in the Jubilee.

32 “‘The Levites always have the right to redeem their houses in the Levitical towns, which they possess. 33 So the property of the Levites is redeemable—that is, a house sold in any town they hold—and is to be returned in the Jubilee, because the houses in the towns of the Levites are their property among the Israelites. 34 But the pastureland belonging to their towns must not be sold; it is their permanent possession.

35 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you. 36 Do not take interest or any profit from them, but fear your God, so that they may continue to live among you. 37 You must not lend them money at interest or sell them food at a profit. 38 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God.

39 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to you, do not make them work as slaves. 40 They are to be treated as hired workers or temporary residents among you; they are to work for you until the Year of Jubilee. 41 Then they and their children are to be released, and they will go back to their own clans and to the property of their ancestors. 42 Because the Israelites are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt, they must not be sold as slaves. 43 Do not rule over them ruthlessly, but fear your God.

44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

47 “‘If a foreigner residing among you becomes rich and any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to the foreigner or to a member of the foreigner’s clan, 48 they retain the right of redemption after they have sold themselves. One of their relatives may redeem them: 49 An uncle or a cousin or any blood relative in their clan may redeem them. Or if they prosper, they may redeem themselves. 50 They and their buyer are to count the time from the year they sold themselves up to the Year of Jubilee. The price for their release is to be based on the rate paid to a hired worker for that number of years. 51 If many years remain, they must pay for their redemption a larger share of the price paid for them. 52 If only a few years remain until the Year of Jubilee, they are to compute that and pay for their redemption accordingly. 53 They are to be treated as workers hired from year to year; you must see to it that those to whom they owe service do not rule over them ruthlessly.

54 “‘Even if someone is not redeemed in any of these ways, they and their children are to be released in the Year of Jubilee, 55 for the Israelites belong to me as servants. They are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt. I am the Lord your God