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Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by awesomeJ(m): 3:38pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
CuteMadridista:Passing slaves to your children, and their own children is the equivalent of leaving a company to your kids. Your employees would become their own employees too. Imagine someone who's not too familiar with how football clubs are run, reading that clubs loan out players. Sure, he will swear that players were being subjected to a most inhumane form of treatment. But if he pays close attention to the context, he'll know better. Look at the few examples of relationships that were mentioned of slaves and masters in the Bible, then you'd see obviously that it's nothing short of today's employee/employer relationship. Look at Joseph, a slave, his job description as a slave was to manage Potiphar's entire enterprise, so much so, that the man only bothered himself with his food. Talk about Joseph being a CEO. or Look at Abraham. look at how Laban was so happy to see his slave arrive, because that slave was a loaded big boy who had arrived in their home. He was just dashing out expensive stuffs. You think that slave saw himself as being maltreated. Or you think asking him to go free would have meant anything other than a sack from a great job? 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by CuteMadridista: 3:39pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
felixomor:I have and the ones I saw are those where y'all were trashed just mention me on any such thread 2 Likes |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by DeSepiero(m): 3:40pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
awesomeJ: What the hell did I just read? You awesomeJ should not resort to such dishonesty in your bid to defend bible. Sincerely, it's appalling that you'd suggest that slavery is no different from employment. Employment is NOT same as Slavery. 5 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by felixomor: 3:40pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
CuteMadridista:Ok good then |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by awesomeJ(m): 3:48pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
DeSepiero:The slavery that the Bible regulates on was basically employment. Slavery had a governing contract, so does employment, and buying football players. Technically, football players are merely properties of their various clubs, yet they live more comfortably than most folks without such a contract. This should help you get the right perspectives, when the Bible says that slaves were properties of the masters. Doesn't necessarily mean the relationship was inhumane. 1 Like |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by CuteMadridista: 3:48pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
awesomeJ: I cut out the rest cuz they're too nebulous 1. Employees in any company can walk at any time, if you work in a company you're free to resign and leave non Hebrew slaves are not allowed to leave if they want to. Big difference!!! also slaves you bought are not to be paid any wages while employees are paid their wages, another difference!!! 2. Clubs don't just "loan out players" that's a dishonest representation of how loans are done. let me explain for the readers a. The club tells a player say Kovačić that he's not gonna get game time in his parent club, Real Madrid b. His agent talks with him and he looks for a club that promises his client game time c. he finds a club and they negotiate with the parent club on the terms for the loan, who would be paying the player's wages or what percentage each team would pay and the minimum game time the player must be involved in (usually in minutes) d. the parent club then receives an official bid from the other club, they agree to it subject to the player himself agreeing to the deal e. the player agrees and he moves for the stipulated duration of the loan. mind you, the player can disagree with the deal at this point if he wants so the final power still belongs to the player himself This is how loan deals work in football but the slave in the bible has no say on whether they don't want to be sold or loaned. all the power belongs to the buyer and the seller. I find this reply of yours highly dishonest to say the least 3 Likes |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by dalaman: 3:49pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
awesomeJ: I am not to look at it through your own bias view. If there is something I dislike is dishonesty. What do you mean by perhaps, when it was clearly stated that they can enslave foreigners and their children for a life time? And there were those who were bought for some other time frames. How do you this to be true? How did you know that they were not over powered captured and sold? The buyer did them no favor, even Yahweh their God knew that the condition the slaves were in was bad and warned them NOT to do same to their fellow Israeli brothers.
Yes, I would. If you go and buy a person today that is willing to be a slave you will be arrested. You can try it. Go to an open slave market I Libya buy anyone that was sold willingly. Bring him to Nigeria and treat him the way you would a slave openly and see if you won't be arrested regardless of the fact that he willingly sold himself to you. No where in the bible was it stated that the foreignersgave themselves up as slaves. That is your own making. The people were to buy the slaves is what was written . Why buy something when it is given up for free? You are just trying to spin it and it's just exposing you. Slavery is bad and the fact that a God was at the center of it all giving injunction on how it is to be conducted says it all. 5 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by dalaman: 3:52pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
DeSepiero: Sincerely, I almost wanted to go off on him but had to restrain myself. The extent these guys go to defend absurdity away is really apalling. He is trying to compare slavery in the ible to employment. Something that even the God tacitly agree is wrong by warning the people NOT to do it among themselves bit only among the foreigners living among them. 5 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by dalaman: 3:59pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
awesomeJ: Shut up and stop telling lies. Footballers are NOT properties of their clubs. They can terminate their contracts anytime they feel like. Slaves in the bible could not. They are to be treatedas properties. Even their children were to be treated as properties. The relationship was inhumane because according to the bible they were not allowed to own properties, they could be branded, they were not paid any wages etc. They belonged to the master and did what ever the master told them. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by butterflylion: 3:59pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
awesomeJ: Absolutely brilliant! I thought I was the only one who saw it from this perspective. Bravo. 2 Likes |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by butterflylion: 4:02pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
dalaman: At the words in bold, that is wrong. Clauses protect and prevent such terminations. A 5 year clause must be seen through even to the detriment of the club or player. No player simply just walks away anytime they feel like it. 1 Like |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by CuteMadridista: 4:04pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
Butterflylion and DeSepiero don't post further as you're not welcome please thanks for your cooperation |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by CuteMadridista: 4:04pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
Butterflylion and DeSepiero don't post further as you're not welcome please thanks for your cooperation |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by butterflylion: 4:06pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
CuteMadridista:
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Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by DeSepiero(m): 4:07pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
awesomeJ: You should rather say that there are similarities in the relationships of Slave/Master and Employee/Employer. The fact that someone works for me doesn't mean I own the person. What sort of bible regulations suggests that slavery was employment? Are you an advocate of slavery? like it happened in Libya. Is it proper to exchange humans for money? 1 Like |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by dalaman: 4:09pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
butterflylion: Football contracts can be terminated and are terminated sometimes. If a 5 years contract is detrimental to a club for example, the player can be paid off and the contract will be terminated regardles of the clauses. 1 Like |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by CuteMadridista: 4:10pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
DeSepiero: That's enough please, thanks |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by butterflylion: 4:11pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
dalaman: Again wrong! That Is SOLELY a choice to be made by the club and in this case, OWNER of the player. They weigh player value against offered value and can easily turn it down. Why do you think some players are loaned to other clubs rather than sold? Why are players treated as commodities? They are sold, bought, loaned! These are people being treated same way slaves are based on buying and selling and lending. 2 Likes |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by DeSepiero(m): 4:14pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
butterflylion: In slavery, agreements are made between slave master and buyer. The slaves opinion doesn't really count. Whereas, in employment, agreements are made between employee and employer. Those are two different things. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by CuteMadridista: 4:15pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
dalaman: AwesomeJ is pretending Messi's Children and wives belong to FC Barcelona and when he leaves they'll simply take them away from him and tell him to leave and if Messi loves his children, he'll declare openly that he loves Barcelona, his wife and children so he then becomes their property permanently Mind you the above statement, as horrible as it sounds, is only for Hebrew slaves. non Hebrew ones are for life and don't even have the opportunity to make those declarations 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by awesomeJ(m): 4:17pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
CuteMadridista:Slaves who don't get paid, do not cos they already got their payment upfront. By the way where did you get that slaves didn't get paid, and where did you read that all non Hebrew slaves had to be perpetual slaves? And no matter how much fancy is put into loaning out football players, that phrase "loan out" is still in the same class as "pass down to children" |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by CuteMadridista: 4:20pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
awesomeJ:Absolutely not! the only payment is between the seller and the buyer so only if the seller decides to have pity on the slave by giving him some change does he/she get something Bible? Dalaman has already given those verses 1 Like |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by butterflylion: 4:20pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
DeSepiero: In the bible context the slaves opinion did count. Best output is always considered per investment made. A slave is bought for a time as chosen by the slave or as agreed between the slave and his buyer often so the proceeds can be used to better the life of his family or so. They are not different. What you see is slavery. What I see is the context behind the slavery. If dangote offered you a Behind house with a lovely brand new SUV and a lump salary so you can be his slave for 7 years away would you say? To answer this you can ask bobrisky who is someone's deliberate chosen slave for sake of luxury. |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by dalaman: 4:24pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
butterflylion: Not true, contracts do get terminated regardless of clauses. Many players havebeen paid off by their teams and their contracts terminated. Some players refuse to train with their teams and force their teamsto terminate their contracts. Players have a say when they are being loaned out. If they don't want to go no club can loan them against their wish. Why are players treated as commodities? They are sold, bought, loaned! Players are not treated as commodities because they have the right to say if they are going out or not. They have a say in what ever transaction they are invovked in and they are heavily paid usually. They are consulted before any move is made. How many slaves or commodities are consulted before they are sold out? According to the bible slaves and their kids can be passed of as inheritance to children of their masters. How many footballers are treated that way. Stop this your yeye silliness abeg. 1 Like |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by butterflylion: 4:26pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
CuteMadridista: Go and read about the year of Jubilee from the same bible about the custom of the Hebrews which entails that ALL SLAVES are freed in that jubilee year. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by CuteMadridista: 4:27pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
awesomeJ: just saw this part you added absolutely not! the player has the right not to be passed to the other club! if Madrid decides that they want to loan Kovačić to Arsenal and arsenal agrees. Madrid would still have to go to Kovačić to tell him that arsenal want to have him for a year and state the terms. Kovačić, after reading the terms, may still say he doesn't want to leave on loan and would stay at the club or tell the club to find another club for him or say he wants to leave to arsenal on a permanent basis. all these show the kind of final power the player has and nothing can be done without his consent But non Hebrew slaves has no such right, the owner simply passes him unto his children without his consent and the children passes him unto their Father's grandchildren You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. - Leviticus 25:46 so yeah the difference is huge, stop the dishonesty 4 Likes |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by dalaman: 4:28pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
awesomeJ: Let's talk about Joseph. Potiphar was an Egyptian and Joseph according to the story was favoured by God and his master treated him well as a result of that favour. He was treated differently from the way slaves were treated because of the favor from God accordingto the story. The Jews were badly treated by the Egyptians as slaves so much so that Moses was sent to set them free. 2 Likes |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by CuteMadridista: 4:28pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
butterflylion: Post the verses and let's see. believe me I've been here a lot so bring it on. I know what you'll bring but I want you to bring it for discussion's sake 2 Likes |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by dalaman: 4:29pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
awesomeJ: Let's talk about Joseph. Potiphar was an Egyptian and Joseph according to the story was favoured by God and his master treated him well as a result of that favour. He was treated differently from the way slaves were treated because of the favor from God accordingto the story. The Jews were so badly treated by the Egyptians as slaves so much so that Moses was sent to set them free. That alone showed you how slaves were treated then. 1 Like |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by dalaman: 4:32pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
butterflylion: Will you keep quiet. The slavery was so bad that Yahweh warned them NOT to practice it on their fellow Israeli brothers but other foreign slaves. 1 Like |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by dalaman: 4:35pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
butterflylion: Where and when did bobrisky say that he is any body's slave for luxury? Where? Show us! |
Re: Spartan117 And Awesomej Vs Dalaman And Me On Biblical Views Of Slavery by butterflylion: 4:58pm On Mar 21, 2018 |
CuteMadridista: Leviticus 25 from verse 8 8 “‘Count off seven sabbath years—seven times seven years—so that the seven sabbath years amount to a period of forty-nine years. 9 Then have the trumpet sounded everywhere on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the Day of Atonement sound the trumpet throughout your land. 10 Consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you; each of you is to return to your family property and to your own clan. 11 The fiftieth year shall be a jubilee for you; do not sow and do not reap what grows of itself or harvest the untended vines. 12 For it is a jubilee and is to be holy for you; eat only what is taken directly from the fields. Driving and in traffic now so can type whenever I arrive at my destination. 1 Like |
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