You cannot negotiate genuine desire.

Validational Sex

When women look for that Alpha Seed in their peak ovulatory (proliferative) phase, the sex they seek is a desired sex with a man who meets evolutionary criteria. He’s the ‘hawt’ guy, or the man who leaves a woman with an perception of danger or excitement. A lot of men who don’t meet this criteria have a tendency to over-exaggerate this type of man as the ‘Alpha Chad’ and make a ridiculous parody of him as an ego protection mechanism for themselves. Let me state for the record here that every aspect and adjective that this type of guy embodies is mitigated by conditions and contexts. It is just as likely that this conventionally masculine dominant guy is only so according to his most immediate social situation. So spare me the “Chad Thundercock” anxieties.

The sex that women give “enthusiastic consent” for is validational for them. The easy assessment here is that women have a genuine desire to mate with conventionally masculine men who look and act the part – yes, behavioral congruency is vital. If you follow the research women consciously and unconsciously will actively put themselves into environments where the likelihood of their meeting a dominant masculine man who most closely matched that masculine ideal when they are in estrus. They openly and discreetly look of arousal cue from men who best embody what can only be described as Alpha Seed.

I should also add that women in “satisfying relationships” (meaning LTRs where a woman is still very hot for her husband/boyfriend) report an increase in sexual desire (proceptivity) for that guy during this phase. A lot of guys mistakenly think ANY woman will want to seek out extra-pair mating (cheating) opportunities when they’re in estrus. This is only true if a woman isn’t into her current man.

I don’t want to get too lost in the descriptions here. Rather, I want to focus on the associative feelings women get in and after having sex with that Alpha man during estrus. I would argue that Alpha Widows are made in the estrus phase. This is the sex women want to have and are enthusiastic in both the hunt and the act itself. This is largely (presumedly) the sex that men have with their wives-to-be before they marry. It’s this validational sex, the sex that women fantasize about, that men and women want to get back to once they are committed to each other monogamously but now have a dead bedroom. This sex validates a woman’s ego in that it proves to herself that a man of this SMV caliber would want to pin her to the bed and have marathon sex with her. Remember, the latent purpose of this sex, on this side of Hypergamy, is to access the sperm from men with high reproductive value as defined by what our evolved nature predisposes women to be aroused by. Validational sex is sex by choice and genuine desire, and is satisfying on both a psychological level and an evolutionary level.

Transactional Sex

One of the benefits of a concealed estrus is that it allows women a few luxuries. One of these was the ability to confuse men of their paternity. Today this confusion is little more difficult because we’ve got DNA figured out well enough to make accurate assessments, but in our evolutionary past it was important to trick cuckolded fathers into second guessing whether a child was his or not before he killed it and impregnated a woman on his own (this is also why men evolved mate guarding behaviors).

The other advantage of concealed estrus was essentially prostitution. Now, to pretty this up a bit, lets say that women who were sexual with men outside of their fertility window found that sex could be leveraged with non-Alpha men (men they didn’t want to have children with) to encourage them to help with a lot of the chores more Alpha men were less willing (but not entirely unwilling) to do. Enter transactional sex.

As mentioned, the most overt form of transactional sex is prostitution, but it’s impolite to call every woman a LovePeddler. In fact it’s impolite to even imply a woman may be having sex for other reasons than validational sex. Today women are contemplating whether or not transactional sex is itself rape since it technically meets the definition of rape (sex women don’t want to have). I discussed this “grey area sex” recently in another essay, but it’s interesting to see women wrestle with transactional sex in an era where the Future is Female and women ought to only have the (validational) sex they want to enthusiastically have.

For most men (i.e the 80% Beta men) transactional sex is where the rubber meets the road. In fact, I’d argue that for most Beta men transactional sex is the only definition of sex they ever really know. That’s kind of sad to think about, but most men never really experience the unfettered feral lust of a woman they’ve chosen to spend the rest of their lives with. I got into this in Saving the Best and Hats Off to the Bull, but I think it’s important for the average man today to acknowledge that it’s highly likely that their wives have shared parts of themselves with, and have lost all inhibitions with, men in their sexual pasts they may never know anything about. That’s a cold bucket of reality a lot of men who unplug from all this have to confront.

Marriage today is almost entirely predicated on on the transactional sex side of Hypergamy. I’m not saying it has to be, nor am I saying it always is, but I’m fairly comfortable in speculating that for most married women sex is reward she uses in the operant conditioning of her husband. And the very fact that this is effective with most husbands throws the power dynamic and Frame of the relationship firmly over to the wife. This has the effect of disqualifying that man from ever (or very rarely) being a candidate for validational sex within that marriage. And this too is another aspect of the transactional sex dynamic that modern feminists are contemplating today – if a woman doesn’t want to have sex with her husband, but does anyway, is it rape? But again, NAMALT, not all marriages are like this or have to be like this. I would also argue that a confident man whom a woman admires, who she recognizes as being above her SMV even if slightly and who has internalized Red Pill awareness within that marriage needn’t be doomed to transactional “duty” sex in his marriage.

Unnegotiated Desire

And so now we come full circle to the men I was counseling back in the day. Because all they’d ever known was transactional sex their deductive male brains attempted to solve their “sex problem” in the most logistical and pragmatic way – negotiate with her. If all sex ever is for a guy is a transaction – a quid pro quo – then it follows he’ll try to find the best way to ‘pay’ for his wife’s sexual access. Hunter Drew and I were recently discussing a man who Dean Abbot has been counseling and one thing we’ve all seen a lot of from young and old Blue Pill Beta men is this logical tendency for them to want to ‘sacrifice their way to happiness with their wives’. It’s as if the more they sacrifice the more they pay for that intimacy they seek, but what they never get is that this only buries their sex lives that much more.

One amazing turn around a lot of married and single Red Pill guys experience when they unplug is the attention they receive from women when they switch from a transactional disposition to a validational disposition with regard to sex. When a man unplugs and cuts himself away from his Blue Pill conditioning one change he makes is a shift from viewing sex as transactional to validational. In the beginning, when men are first learning Game and becoming more Red Pill aware about the nature of women they really don’t recognize this shift in attitude towards sex. When I say men need to make themselves the “prize” with regards to sex and their attention what happens is they go from the “how can I pay for sex to qualify for it with a woman” to “women will recognize that I represent and opportunity for validational sex”.

The Blue Pill conditions men to base their understanding of sex on a transactional paradigm. It’s all scarcity, and luck or providence that a woman might want to Bleep them. This is why women get aggravated by the presumption that men might feel they are ‘owed sex‘ in exchange for what they do for them. And why wouldn’t men feel that way? They’ve been conditioned for half a life to believe that they should follow the old social contract and become a man with a lot to offer a woman, a wife. This is the transactional paradigm; I build my life to better accommodate a woman and she reciprocates with sex. Women know this too, so all pretenses of indignation about are complete bullshit. What upsets women is that a Beta man would feel entitled to her sexuality for having accommodated her. Alpha men are entitled to it, accommodations be damned, because he’s the man they want to have sex with.

https://therationalmale.com/2018/03/07/transactional-vs-validational-sex/

So I just posted the exact writeups as the article is long.

I know that the foreign sex/dating scene might be a bit different however, I liked this article because it addresses something I have always had an issue with:

A number of married women have transactional sex with their husbands.... they will have sex if only X, Y, Z. They will only have sex after he woos them, buy stuff etc. just how they would only cook his favorite when when they need something which I think is also wrong.

SO what do we think?

Cc: Innovestor, menxer, plainol

LewsTherin, what do you think?

bukatyne:
LewsTherin, what do you think?

Well, I tried. I even went to the main article and all I coukd come up with was the thought that the writer is someone who percieves relationships from a standpoint I would never countenance.

Yes, many a time women use sex as a means to get something from their husbands or as a reward for getting something from them. In our context in this here parts of darkest Africa, women are taught/conditioned to see sex as a man's thing. They forget they have their own desires. The suppress their own desires in order not to be seen as sluty. They forget how to feel desire so they give it to the man as he wants it, or as they want to get something from him.

Women growing in our time are working themselves out of that mindset. However, because our own part of darkest Africa has us thinking only of survival women still see sex as a man's thing giving it to the man as he wants it, or as they want to get something for him.

NOTE: there are always exceptions to every generalization.

bukatyne:
So I just posted the exact writeups as the article is long.

I know that the foreign sex/dating scene might be a bit different however, I liked this article because it addresses something I have always had an issue with:

A number of married women have transactional sex with their husbands.... they will have sex if only X, Y, Z. They will only have sex after he woos them, buy stuff etc. just how they would only cook his favorite when when they need something which I think is also wrong.

SO what do we think?

Women have transactional sèx mainly because they don't even really like their husbands in the first place. There's a dynamic known as Alpha Fûcks(Validations), Beta Bucks(Transactional). What this means is that women are with alphas to have sex with them and with betas for their ability to provide, which has been dealt with somewhat in your article.

This is the reason women have a lot of sex with their boyfriends/fiances but once the dotted lines are signed, sex dwindles. It is a known fact that married men have way less sex than they thought they would before getting married. (And, no it wasn't because of headaches or chores, in fact, women would rather do chores than sex their beta husbands ). Those things the husbands do to woo them is their payment for the sex with him they really didn't want to have. If a woman wants to really Bleep you, you could be the poorest thing on the planet and her gash would be gushing juices. And we know most women are married because of the financial security their husbands represent. How else do we explain women leaving their broke ass boyfriends of several years only to pop out of nowhere with a willing fool to wife them up? Many of these women actually go back to their own exes for one last fling or to continue the relationship because Betas are for their bucks, and Alphas are for the Fûcks.

So, what do we think? This is the way of the world, has always been and it won't end anytime soon. It's basic human nature and all we can do is maximise our status in the game. Also marrying for love is a myth. Marriage is done more for its benefit to either party than any real love that is often touted.

One more thing: as a man, don't be in a relationship where your value is weighed through how much material or finance you contribute, it's not worth it. If your woman is materialistic, bin her like rotten meat. Wait until you can find a woman who really, really likes you and your bullshit and you hers. Otherwise, you just end up in a dysfunctional marriage where you hate each other.

One more extra thing: Divorce is always a valid option. A very, very valid option.

bukatyne:

A very stimulating read.

From personal experience, ladies that are excited about sex always get guys fired up, with little to no down time. But on the other hand, especially in a committed relationship, a lady would get "comfortable" and the fire is smothered gradually, and the guy starts looking outside because he wants to have an experience he has only a memory of.

As is aptly said, "Betas are for their bucks, and Alphas are for the Fûcks" is the reason for the so called "cheating" we see in society.

@ topic

This post is one of the most important from Rollo for Men to read, especially b4 signing the dotted lines.

He clearly outlines one of the root causes of sexless marriages today, Clueless brother marries holy sister believing that a ring on her finger is a guarantee of passionate sex for the rest of his married life only to have a rude awakening when the sex "suddenly" evaporates!

He then enters a vicious cycle of trying to "re-ignite" the passion by being more "romantic" but the situation only gets worse! She continues to pull away from him and since he has no understanding of intersexual dynamics in today's world he thinks " maybe if I was MORE romantic, maybe if I did ALL the Chores, maybe if I trip her to Dubai, maybe...maybe !!!

Clueless brother doesn't understand that "You can't NEGOTIATE desire! A woman who wants to Fvck you WILL FIND A WAY to Fvck you!"

Brothers like this usually get a rude awakening when they find evidence of wifeys wild sexual past

https://therationalmale.com/2013/12/03/saving-the-best/

Or after investing their entire lives in the marriage, being a Good husband, playing by the rules, raising the kid and then THIS SH!T happens!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMcTyzpb6IM

As @timbuktuo said the brother was simply the second half of the sisters Hypergamic plan of her life.

He was the "Beta Bucks" ,she didn't marry him because she was attracted to him sexually...She married him because her Alpha bleeps guy isn't interested in "settling down" !

Why should he? He is aware of his SMV ,he knows he can have a diffrent Hot chick in his bed every weekend, why tie himself down to just one?

Sister sees the handwriting on the wall, time is no longer on her side, her "Olympus is falling" and she cannot compete with the new ,younger, hot babes on the scene.

She repackages herself as "born again" Holy sister in her church and clueless brother thinks he has found "Gods will" for his life

She accepts his marriage proposal but in her heart of hearts she STILL wants the Alpha bleeps guy!

In this day and age, a Man needs to know exactly how a woman sees him!

Am I her Alpha Bleep guy or am I the Beta Bucks guy?

It is only a foolish Man who knows that she only sees him as the Beta Bucks guys that goes ahead to marry her!

menxer:


A very stimulating read.

From personal experience, ladies that are excited about sex always get guys fired up, with little to no down time. But on the other hand, especially in a committed relationship, a lady would get "comfortable" and the fire is smothered gradually, and the guy starts looking outside because he wants to have an experience he has only a memory of.

As is aptly said, "Betas are for their bucks, and Alphas are for the Fûcks" is the reason for the so called "cheating" we see in society.

If only rich men knew what kind of losers are boinking their wives while they are out working and trying to make enough money to qualify for the pitiful sex their wives reluctantly dish out, they would reevaluate their purpose in life.

@Filani, one of the first things I learned in the red pill was that you can not negotiate genuine desire. If guys learn nothing else, this particular lesson should never, ever be forgotten. It is crucial to maintaining frame. Once the passion starts to dwindle it's time to move on, which is why most red pillers are anti-marriage because of the near impossibility of maintaining that passion long term.

As I learn more about the dynamic of romantic relationships, I appreciate the wisdom of our ancestors as expressed through marriage customs and traditions. When you think about it, do you really want a woman who never really liked you to inherit your possessions after your demise? A woman who only ever saw you as a guaranteed meal ticket while constantly on the look out for some better option?

LewsTherin:


Well, I tried. I even went to the main article and all I coukd come up with was the thought that the writer is someone who percieves relationships from a standpoint I would never countenance.

Yes, many a time women use sex as a means to get something from their husbands or as a reward for getting something from them. In our context in this here parts of darkest Africa, women are taught/conditioned to see sex as a man's thing. They forget they have their own desires. The suppress their own desires in order not to be seen as sluty. They forget how to feel desire so they give it to the man as he wants it, or as they want to get something from him.

Women growing in our time are working themselves out of that mindset. However, because our own part of darkest Africa has us thinking only of survival women still see sex as a man's thing giving it to the man as he wants it, or as they want to get something for him.

NOTE: there are always exceptions to every generalization.

Like I said somewhere else, I do not agree with his 'religion', however, this articles struck home. Again, because he is writing from a different culture (American), there might be a little difference.

I would have agreed with you however,
1. These women knew how to satisfy their boyfriends and sugar daddies before marriage;
2. These women know how to satisfy their husbands when they want something;
3. Some have affairs and are very sexually expressive in them.

I would agree that some Nigerian men have issues with wives who are sexually aware of themselves. I remember a colleague saying the wife would find it strange if he decided to initiate sex in the kitchen (not that he did and the wife found it strange; he is projecting his beliefs on her). Another one said women can still not ask their husbands for sex in Nigeria. I just rolled my eyes. He is also married.

Timbuktuo:


1. Women have transactional SMS mainly because they don't even really like their husbands in the first place. There's a dynamic known as Alpha Fûcks(Validations), Beta Bucks(Transactional). What this means is that women are with alphas to have sex with them and with betas for their ability to provide, which has been dealt with somewhat in your article.

2. This is the reason women have a lot of sex with their boyfriends/fiances but once the dotted lines are signed, sex dwindles. It is a known fact that married men have way less sex than they thought they would before getting married. (And, no it wasn't because of headaches or chores, in fact, women would rather do chores than sex their beta husbands ). Those things the husbands do to woo them is their payment for the sex with him they really didn't want to have. If a woman wants to really Bleep you, you could be the poorest thing on the planet and her gash would be gushing juices. And we know most women are married because of the financial security their husbands represent. How else do we explain women leaving their broke ass boyfriends of several years only to pop out of nowhere with a willing fool to wife them up? Many of these women actually go back to their own exes for one last fling or to continue the relationship because Betas are for their bucks, and Alphas are for the Fûcks.

3. So, what do we think? This is the way of the world, has always been and it won't end anytime soon. It's basic human nature and all we can do is maximise our status in the game. Also marrying for love is a myth. Marriage is done more for its benefit to either party than any real love that is often touted.

4. One more thing: as a man, don't be in a relationship where your value is weighed through how much material or finance you contribute, it's not worth it. If your woman is materialistic, bin her like rotten meat. Wait until you can find a woman who really, really likes you and your bullshit and you hers. Otherwise, you just end up in a dysfunctional marriage where you hate each other.

5. One more extra thing: Divorce is always a valid option. A very, very valid option.

Did you just resurrect? Welcome back!

1. As much as I try to understand this, I don't believe it. Except you are telling me that AF/BB refers to the stages in one's life and not personality because the AF (young man) 10 years ago is a BB (Mature husband) today. Only few people retain their AF behaviour all through life. Again, If I am to tailor this to the Nigerian environment, then I would say AB/BB i.e. Alpha Bucks/ Beta Bucks because only few university girls sleep about with guys/men just because. It is always someone who has value to give.... money/grades/intelligence/protection etc. Also remember that a university girl's AF/AB is probably his wife's BB.

2. I agree with you. Now, I am thinking: If the wife loved her husband, would the sex still dwindle? Would she still desire the man after a while? Some men actually believe in plucking a wife from her school BF and building a home with her. Especially those going for younger women. The deserted BFs also grow and do same.

3. Real love exists... door! True it is the way of the world, come to Christ.

4. This advise is dicey. In a traditional setting, a man is ALWAYS measured by his financial capability. The concept of marrying for love is relatively new. It is just how a woman was ALWAYS measured by her youth and home keeping ability. The mutual bullshit thingy is new school... and sorry,, you can't eat your cake and have it dude.

5. Divorce in what instant?

menxer:


A very stimulating read.

From personal experience, ladies that are excited about sex always get guys fired up, with little to no down time. But on the other hand, especially in a committed relationship, a lady would get "comfortable" and the fire is smothered gradually, and the guy starts looking outside because he wants to have an experience he has only a memory of.

As is aptly said, "Betas are for their bucks, and Alphas are for the Fûcks" is the reason for the so called "cheating" we see in society.

@Bold, why do you think so?

I wish more ladies could comment.

@ last paragraph: cheating on whose end?

filani:
@ topic

This post is one of the most important from Rollo for Men to read, especially b4 signing the dotted lines.

He clearly outlines one of the root causes of sexless marriages today, Clueless brother marries holy sister believing that a ring on her finger is a guarantee of passionate sex for the rest of his married life only to have a rude awakening when the sex "suddenly" evaporates!

He then enters a vicious cycle of trying to "re-ignite" the passion by being more "romantic" but the situation only gets worse! She continues to pull away from him and since he has no understanding of intersexual dynamics in today's world he thinks " maybe if I was MORE romantic, maybe if I did ALL the Chores, maybe if I trip her to Dubai, maybe...maybe !!!

Clueless brother doesn't understand that "You can't NEGOTIATE desire! A woman who wants to Fvck you WILL FIND A WAY to Fvck you!"

Brothers like this usually get a rude awakening when they find evidence of wifeys wild sexual past

https://therationalmale.com/2013/12/03/saving-the-best/

Or after investing their entire lives in the marriage, being a Good husband, playing by the rules, raising the kid and then THIS SH!T happens!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMcTyzpb6IM

As @timbuktuo said the brother was simply the second half of the sisters Hypergamic plan of her life.

He was the "Beta Bucks" ,she didn't marry him because she was attracted to him sexually...She married him because her Alpha bleeps guy isn't interested in "settling down" !

Why should he? He is aware of his SMV ,he knows he can have a diffrent Hot chick in his bed every weekend, why tie himself down to just one?

Sister sees the handwriting on the wall, time is no longer on her side, her "Olympus is falling" and she cannot compete with the new ,younger, hot babes on the scene.

She repackages herself as "born again" Holy sister in her church and clueless brother thinks he has found "Gods will" for his life

She accepts his marriage proposal but in her heart of hearts she STILL wants the Alpha bleeps guy!

In this day and age, a Man needs to know exactly how a woman sees him!

Am I her Alpha Bleep guy or am I the Beta Bucks guy?

It is only a foolish Man who knows that she only sees him as the Beta Bucks guys that goes ahead to marry her!

Your attachment is terrible in a funny way.

And like I told Timbuktou, the AF/BB is more of stages than men.

What would you advise the husband in your post to do?

Timbuktuo:


If only rich men knew what kind of losers are boinking their wives while they are out working and trying to make enough money to qualify for the pitiful sex their wives reluctantly dish out, they would reevaluate their purpose in life.

Interestingly, the losers would marry and younger losers boinking their wives; it is a stage thing.

Timbuktuo:
@Filani, one of the first things I learned in the red pill was that you can not negotiate genuine desire. If guys learn nothing else, this particular lesson should never, ever be forgotten. It is crucial to maintaining frame. Once the passion starts to dwindle it's time to move on, which is why most red pillers are anti-marriage because of the near impossibility of maintaining that passion long term.

I laughed out when I saw a girl call herself the 'Red Pill Girl'. Red Pill in itself is anti-women. A RPG believes in keeping her virginity/ extremely low body count, be fit, good mannered etc. get a good, loving and responsible Alpha man (Red Piller) to be married to forever.

A red Piller is looking to sleep with as many women as 'desires' him while treating them like shit unconsciously/subconsciously.

There is a Christian blog (BiblicalGenderRoles) who are Red Pillers anyways. Some female bloggers with same beliefs support him (e.g. Girl With the DragonFly Tattoo (GWDFT) however, I realize that BGR wants women to submit bla bla because they are under their men, have a almost slave/master or daughter/father relationship and it is their duty. GWDFT wants women to submit so that their husbands are loving, reciprocate and mutually respect them..... No bi today gender war start.

Timbuktuo:
As I learn more about the dynamic of romantic relationships, I appreciate the wisdom of our ancestors as expressed through marriage customs and traditions. When you think about it, do you really want a woman who never really liked you to inherit your possessions after your demise? A woman who only ever saw you as a guaranteed meal ticket while constantly on the look out for some better option?

What wisdom did they express through marriage customs and traditions?

> Bride Price: Peeps have always said that it was/is used to gauge a man's financial capability.... Money
> Disinheriting Widows: The stuffs just went from a woman who saw him as a meal ticket (in your words) to a family who saw him as a meal ticket. Also remember that the man's children suffered in this practice.

And like I said earlier, likeness or not of the wife just started recently. I would think one way used to mitigate against a woman hoarding sex was polygamy. At least, the women would compete to please the husband not because they desired him but because he controlled the resources.... still money.

A friend of mine bought a huge building with her husband. The right wing of the building is the house and the left wing is a bed and breakfast and a restaurant where events such as weddings etc take place. They also have a three-year-old child. I have seen them renovate and refurbish the building. Gosh, a lot of work, hard work, exhausting even if rewarding. Now that the building is ready, it is booked out with one event following another. They have a few reliable employees and they are still looking for qualified people to employ long term and do a lot of the work on their own. When I last asked her if a second child will follow, she told me that they very much wish for a second child but lately did not even have time to make love. This, guys, is the reality. Life happens! Times will change but for now both of them are often too tired in the evening or go to bed at different times so that there are few opportunities and little energy to make love. We are no longer teenagers in this section to discuss this bullcrap about alphas and betas.

Have realistic expectations! There will be times where your libido will be higher or lower, where you two will have more or less time and energy. Sometimes you will have to deal with sickness and other problems.

Another instance. A friend of mine who has been together with her husband ever since she was 14, yes 14, and has 3 kids with him experienced phases where she would only have s.ex to satisfy him, not because she felt like having s.ex. Now that their youngest son is 11 and she is less occupied with her children as they have or are in the process of becoming more self-reliant, her libido has increased and her husband is jokingly telling her to give him a break. It is difficult for some women to be mothers during the day living in the child's pure and innocent world and be s.ex vampires at night. It is not easy to switch between those roles.

There will be times in your marriage where s.ex will become less. You cannot f*** like Hot teenagers and never get tired or jaded, hence the saying absence/distance makes the heart grow fonder. Some Jews do not touch each other at all in public and only have s.ex when the woman is ovulating, which is also the time when the female libido increases. I am not saying we must follow their traditions and customs but they make sense to some degree and I think men should know how the female body works even though every woman is different.

Some men also experience a decline in their libido due to different factors. It is human. If s.ex is the basis of your marriage, it is a shaky foundation.

bukatyne:


Did you just resurrect? Welcome back!

1. As much as I try to understand this, I don't believe it. Except you are telling me that AF/BB refers to the stages in one's life and not personality because the AF (young man) 10 years ago is a BB (Mature husband) today. Only few people retain their AF behaviour all through life. Again, If I am to tailor this to the Nigerian environment, then I would say AB/BB i.e. Alpha Bucks/ Beta Bucks because only few university girls sleep about with guys/men just because. It is always someone who has value to give.... money/grades/intelligence/protection etc. Also remember that a university girl's AF/AB is probably his wife's BB.

2. I agree with you. Now, I am thinking: If the wife loved her husband, would the sex still dwindle? Would she still desire the man after a while? Some men actually believe in plucking a wife from her school BF and building a home with her. Especially those going for younger women. The deserted BFs also grow and do same.

3. Real love exists... door! True it is the way of the world, come to Christ.

4. This advise is dicey. In a traditional setting, a man is ALWAYS measured by his financial capability. The concept of marrying for love is relatively new. It is just how a woman was ALWAYS measured by her youth and home keeping ability. The mutual bullshit thingy is new school... and sorry,, you can't eat your cake and have it dude.

5. Divorce in what instant?

Been a bit busy and such, thanks for the welcome. Eyin naa ku ile.

1. What's there not to believe? Even your opening post hints towards this. A BB who used to be AF thought he was growing into a mature man not knowing he was becoming the very thing his wife didn't like. He basically softens up to be what he thinks his wife wants which turns her off. He thinks he needs to be even more romantic which turns her off even more. If he knew better he would literally keep being his former self.

I don't really agree with your Naija uni scenario. Almost all the girls have sex, I'd say about 98%, I leave out the remaining 2% because there would be natural exceptions.

2. I think it's a wrong strategy to pluck a babe from a relationship as you say. The implications aren't palatable at all. Recently, there was a thread about the silent divorce rate among igbos for exactly this same reason. It is always a better strategy to grow with a woman. Note that this isn't foolproof but it is better than a rich/comfortable dude plucking a girl from nowhere and wiring her up quickly. This actually scares me, because I want a girl that's really into me and wants nothing more than a future with me with no strings attached. There was a thread last month or so about a man whose business was going through a rough patch and he said it opened his eyes to the realities of the power of mo ey in a relationship. Meanwhile there are men who have lost their means of livelihood whose wives still accord them respect as though their finances were still in good shape.

3. Of course God has true love, but most people are shocked when their spouses true colours show forth during a separation or divorce, yes even Christian couples.

4. Mind that in the traditional setting everyone knew their place. The man was the provider and the woman submitted, both out of duty. A poor provider was condemned just as much as a 'bad wife'. Today, the traditional way is seen as archaic, even misogynistic. However, women still want the provider man while being as flexible as possible with submission and even outright calling it slavery and shaming men who want submissive women. Alas, women's default setting is to be submissive, but to naturally dominant men, yet they have socialised that dominant streak out of men.

The mutual system has a high rate of failure because it is unnatural to both sexes. Are you aware men in the West are avoiding marriage because they consider it being too risky for them?

5. Divorce in any instant the man feels his needs aren't being met. Why should he stay in a marriage that doesn't make him happy?

bukatyne:


Your attachment is terrible in a funny way.

And like I told Timbuktou, the AF/BB is more of stages than men.

What would you advise the husband in your post to do?

I couldn't answer this satisfactorily in my last response, so let me have another go at it here.

Yes, AF/BB is largely a stage thing. There's something known as 'the wall' in our lingo which signifies the stage at which women lose their swag if you will. They become too old to attract as many suitors, the mgbeke stage if you will. They still are good looking but an old fine woman is still old. This is usually their 30s. This is the stage where many of them will marry anything, they will even pay their own bride price and sponsor the wedding. They know they are almost if not totally out of the market. This is the Shiloh/Holy Ghost Congress Stage.

Before this stage are the 'party years' where she gets toasted like a million times a day. She goes to buy toothpaste in her most unflattering sleeping clothes and cars are parking and honking just to get her attention. Guys are offering the world to her just to get her number.

The ladies in or appraoching the first scenario are the ones that usually revert to BB if they are lucky to find a well-to-do individual showing interest or they even seek such men out. This is their last chance and they have to make it count.

The women in the first scenario usually don't see a need to settle so they go for the top guys the alphas. They are in the form of their lives and thy might as well get the best men on offer.

This explains why couples break up after graduation or after NYSC because the girl realises she doesn't want to live with this broke dude who's still trying to find his feet who might not even make it; meanwhile they get married inside a year of NYSC completion because they've hit the jackpot of a comfortable 'God-fearing' dude. Many of these marriages aren't what the men think they are, or maybe they are; after all yorubas have a saying "owo ni obinrin mo" (women only know money).

So, yeah it's a stage thing that's why any redpiller worth his salt will tell a man to marry a girl when she's at her peak because at that stage she really wants you and not your money. Of course she wants the money but she wants you badly as well, and at that stage money really doesn't mean so much to her.

bukatyne:


Interestingly, the losers would marry and younger losers boinking their wives; it is a stage thing.



I laughed out when I saw a girl call herself the 'Red Pill Girl'. Red Pill in itself is anti-women. A RPG believes in keeping her virginity/ extremely low body count, be fit, good mannered etc. get a good, loving and responsible Alpha man (Red Piller) to be married to forever.

A red Piller is looking to sleep with as many women as 'desires' him while treating them like shit unconsciously/subconsciously.

There is a Christian blog (BiblicalGenderRoles) who are Red Pillers anyways. Some female bloggers with same beliefs support him (e.g. Girl With the DragonFly Tattoo (GWDFT) however, I realize that BGR wants women to submit bla bla because they are under their men, have a almost slave/master or daughter/father relationship and it is their duty. GWDFT wants women to submit so that their husbands are loving, reciprocate and mutually respect them..... No bi today gender war start.




What wisdom did they express through marriage customs and traditions?

> Bride Price: Peeps have always said that it was/is used to gauge a man's financial capability.... Money
> Disinheriting Widows: The stuffs just went from a woman who saw him as a meal ticket (in your words) to a family who saw him as a meal ticket. Also remember that the man's children suffered in this practice.

And like I said earlier, likeness or not of the wife just started recently. I would think one way used to mitigate against a woman hoarding sex was polygamy. At least, the women would compete to please the husband not because they desired him but because he controlled the resources.... still money.

Well, not all women sleep around, though, I wouldn't vouch for any. Maybe we will discuss this some other time.

The justification for red pill men RPM sleeping around is the sexual liberation women have and use liberally. No man wants to hold the short end of the stick at the end of the day, that's why we always want to know our women's sexual history. I don't want to have a measly two women under my belt while my wife has like 35. No way.

IMO a red pill girl is a step in the right direction. If more women became red pill, they could effect less promiscuity among men. The more sexually liberal women become, the more sexually liberal men become. If a woman is trying to become wife material, more power to her elbow I say.

Per the gender wars thing, the west is ahead of us in terms of liberalism in relationships and they naturally have seen its ill effects. Divorce is just beginning to gain ground here and they had it on a massive scale sice the late 80s. I think we would do well to learn from their own experiences.

By the way, as a Christian, which you claim to be, submission shouldn't repulse you. I believe there is no such thing as a Christian feminist, not that I live by the Bible anyway. Just saying you cannot argue from the Christian Bible and feminist Bible at the same time.

Your last paragraph: marriage has always been about raising children in a conducive environment which money was a huge indicator of. I'm sure our ancestors didn't marry for love, I'm sure it didn't even cross their minds that such a think could exist . Our fathers are turning in their graves as we sell out our manhood for the promise of affection

Is it not better for my blood to inherit my property than some manipulative opportunist? Why should my widow inherit my property when she only tolerated me when I was alive and she would probably remarry following my demise? Who knows if she even was responsible for my demise in the first place?

You see why our forefathers were wise? Polygamy was the default, bit you new school people say it's barbaric and archaic. "Marry for love" you say, but love is a scam. I am fully content to be a serial monogamist, I wouldn't try polygamy. Any woman that cannot abide by my ways will be summarily replaced. She can go and argue with her forefathers.

bukatyne:


@Bold, why do you think so?

I wish more ladies could comment.

@ last paragraph: cheating on whose end?

It's not what I think, it is the reality I see people live and I experienced it first hand. Most ladies start to be "lukewarm" in terms of sex in long term relationship, because they feel "secured" and the guy has to dampen his sex needs accordingly or he looks for a "side chic" to fill the gaps, thus "cheating" on his wife.

I don't personally like calling it "cheating," as it evokes a sense of guilt. In my experience, I used to have sex like 3-4 times in a week, but now being in a "committed" relationship I hardly get it once a week. I have done all I could to help her in that regard but her interest in sex is waxing cold, so what should I do? Break up with her because of inadequate sex, that I can get filled in elsewhere?

I have come to terms that the sacrosanct basic needs of a healthy adult are food, clothing, shelter, sex.

Mindfulness:
A friend of mine bought a huge building with her husband. The right wing of the building is the house and the left wing is a bed and breakfast and a restaurant where events such as weddings etc take place. They also have a three-year-old child. I have seen them renovate and refurbish the building. Gosh, a lot of work, hard work, exhausting even if rewarding. Now that the building is ready, it is booked out with one event following another. They have a few reliable employees and they are still looking for qualified people to employ long term and do a lot of the work on their own. When I last asked her if a second child will follow, she told me that they very much wish for a second child but lately did not even have time to make love. This, guys, is the reality. Life happens! Times will change but for now both of them are often too tired in the evening or go to bed at different times so that there are few opportunities and little energy to make love. We are no longer teenagers in this section to discuss this bullcrap about alphas and betas.

Have realistic expectations! There will be times where your libido will be higher or lower, where you two will have more or less time and energy. Sometimes you will have to deal with sickness and other problems.

Another instance. A friend of mine who has been together with her husband ever since she was 14, yes 14, and has 3 kids with him experienced phases where she would only have s.ex to satisfy him, not because she felt like having s.ex. Now that their youngest son is 11 and she is less occupied with her children as they have or are in the process of becoming more self-reliant, her libido has increased and her husband is jokingly telling her to give him a break. It is difficult for some women to be mothers during the day living in the child's pure and innocent world and be s.ex vampires at night. It is not easy to switch between those roles.

There will be times in your marriage where s.ex will become less. You cannot f*** like Hot teenagers and never get tired or jaded, hence the saying absence/distance makes the heart grow fonder. Some Jews do not touch each other at all in public and only have s.ex when the woman is ovulating, which is also the time when the female libido increases. I am not saying we must follow their traditions and customs but they make sense to some degree and I think men should know how the female body works even though every woman is different.

Some men also experience a decline in their libido due to different factors. It is human. If s.ex is the basis of your marriage, it is a shaky foundation.

This article is talking more about a wife who rather does chores than sleep with her husband or grudgingly obliges him with duty sex. She doesn't just want her husband. Some cheat; some fantasize about other men; some stay on their own. Yet when these women want something, they know who to seduce their husbands.

Timbuktuo:


Been a bit busy and such, thanks for the welcome. Eyin naa ku ile.

1. What's there not to believe? Even your opening post hints towards this. A BB who used to be AF thought he was growing into a mature man not knowing he was becoming the very thing his wife didn't like. He basically softens up to be what he thinks his wife wants which turns her off. He thinks he needs to be even more romantic which turns her off even more. If he knew better he would literally keep being his former self.

I don't really agree with your Naija uni scenario. Almost all the girls have sex, I'd say about 98%, I leave out the remaining 2% because there would be natural exceptions.

2. I think it's a wrong strategy to pluck a babe from a relationship as you say. The implications aren't palatable at all. Recently, there was a thread about the silent divorce rate among igbos for exactly this same reason. It is always a better strategy to grow with a woman. Note that this isn't foolproof but it is better than a rich/comfortable dude plucking a girl from nowhere and wiring her up quickly. This actually scares me, because I want a girl that's really into me and wants nothing more than a future with me with no strings attached. There was a thread last month or so about a man whose business was going through a rough patch and he said it opened his eyes to the realities of the power of mo ey in a relationship. Meanwhile there are men who have lost their means of livelihood whose wives still accord them respect as though their finances were still in good shape.

3. Of course God has true love, but most people are shocked when their spouses true colours show forth during a separation or divorce, yes even Christian couples.

4. Mind that in the traditional setting everyone knew their place. The man was the provider and the woman submitted, both out of duty. A poor provider was condemned just as much as a 'bad wife'. Today, the traditional way is seen as archaic, even misogynistic. However, women still want the provider man while being as flexible as possible with submission and even outright calling it slavery and shaming men who want submissive women. Alas, women's default setting is to be submissive, but to naturally dominant men, yet they have socialised that dominant streak out of men.

The mutual system has a high rate of failure because it is unnatural to both sexes. Are you aware men in the West are avoiding marriage because they consider it being too risky for them?

5. Divorce in any instant the man feels his needs aren't being met. Why should he stay in a marriage that doesn't make him happy?

A wa ni yen

1. @Naija girls, I am saying the reason they have sex. Except uni setting has changed, some girls are in a relationship where sex happens; others hopping from one bed to another do so in return of something else they don't have.

2. I agree with you that it is nonsense especially when they girl's heart is else where. This your grow with your woman strategy is new school which you don't strike me as. Please share the link to the thread. Igbo was always seen as the tribe with least divorce rates.

3. I agree

4. In that same traditional setting, men and women did not grow together; the men plucked their wives from whereever. It seems you want to eat your cake and keep some in the fridge. Mbanu!

5. This is a joke right? *rolls eyes*

Timbuktuo:


I couldn't answer this satisfactorily in my last response, so let me have another go at it here.

Yes, AF/BB is largely a stage thing. There's something known as 'the wall' in our lingo which signifies the stage at which women lose their swag if you will. They become too old to attract as many suitors, the mgbeke stage if you will. They still are good looking but an old fine woman is still old. This is usually their 30s. This is the stage where many of them will marry anything, they will even pay their own bride price and sponsor the wedding. They know they are almost if not totally out of the market. This is the Shiloh/Holy Ghost Congress Stage.

The 'wall' is different for different women and areas. Again, most of them are looking in the wrong pool.

Timbuktuo:
Before this stage are the 'party years' where she gets toasted like a million times a day. She goes to buy toothpaste in her most unflattering sleeping clothes and cars are parking and honking just to get her attention. Guys are offering the world to her just to get her number.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Timbuktuo:
The ladies in or appraoching the first scenario are the ones that usually revert to BB if they are lucky to find a well-to-do individual showing interest or they even seek such men out. This is their last chance and they have to make it count.

The women in the first second scenario usually don't see a need to settle so they go for the top guys the alphas. They are in the form of their lives and thy might as well get the best men on offer.

Again, AF/BB is a stage thing. If a man is looking at marriage, he will someone's BB. I would believe that most of them use that period to get the best men to settle with. Abeg, how many rich men are in Nigeria

Timbuktuo:
This explains why couples break up after graduation or after NYSC because the girl realises she doesn't want to live with this broke dude who's still trying to find his feet who might not even make it; meanwhile they get married inside a year of NYSC completion because they've hit the jackpot of a comfortable 'God-fearing' dude. Many of these marriages aren't what the men think they are, or maybe they are; after all yorubas have a saying "owo ni obinrin mo" (women only know money).

This is not a full representation of the issue. On one hand, you truly have girls who cannot wait. On the other hand, you have guys who say the ladies are too old for them and want fresh blood when they make it. There are countless stories of ladies ditto guys bitten by waiting for the university lovers.

You are missing the point that some men intentionally seek out young ladies as wives. They know they are offering the financial stability and expect full compliance to whatever they want in addition to the youth she is bring to the table. If they wanted a financially stable partner, they should have married their mates. They know it is about the money.

Timbuktuo:
So, yeah it's a stage thing that's why any redpiller worth his salt will tell a man to marry a girl when she's at her peak because at that stage she really wants you and not your money. Of course she wants the money but she wants you badly as well, and at that stage money really doesn't mean so much to her.

I laugh in Japanese. A girl at her peak is more likely to pick the richest/loves her most cos she is at the peak. I think you are describing ladies who have 'hit' the wall.

Timbuktuo:


I couldn't answer this satisfactorily in my last response, so let me have another go at it here.

Yes, AF/BB is largely a stage thing. There's something known as 'the wall' in our lingo which signifies the stage at which women lose their swag if you will. They become too old to attract as many suitors, the mgbeke stage if you will. They still are good looking but an old fine woman is still old. This is usually their 30s. This is the stage where many of them will marry anything, they will even pay their own bride price and sponsor the wedding. They know they are almost if not totally out of the market. This is the Shiloh/Holy Ghost Congress Stage.

Before this stage are the 'party years' where she gets toasted like a million times a day. She goes to buy toothpaste in her most unflattering sleeping clothes and cars are parking and honking just to get her attention. Guys are offering the world to her just to get her number.

The ladies in or appraoching the first scenario are the ones that usually revert to BB if they are lucky to find a well-to-do individual showing interest or they even seek such men out. This is their last chance and they have to make it count.

The women in the first scenario usually don't see a need to settle so they go for the top guys the alphas. They are in the form of their lives and thy might as well get the best men on offer.

This explains why couples break up after graduation or after NYSC because the girl realises she doesn't want to live with this broke dude who's still trying to find his feet who might not even make it; meanwhile they get married inside a year of NYSC completion because they've hit the jackpot of a comfortable 'God-fearing' dude. Many of these marriages aren't what the men think they are, or maybe they are; after all yorubas have a saying "owo ni obinrin mo" (women only know money).

So, yeah it's a stage thing that's why any redpiller worth his salt will tell a man to marry a girl when she's at her peak because at that stage she really wants you and not your money. Of course she wants the money but she wants you badly as well, and at that stage money really doesn't mean so much to her.

A woman in her 30s is old? Oh my God! I need to make preparations for my funeral.

I don't know about you grandpa but I am as fresh as ever and I could have you over and over again. I bet my azz.

Timbuktuo:


Well, not all women sleep around, though, I wouldn't vouch for any. Maybe we will discuss this some other time.

A lot of ladies do not sleep around.

Timbuktuo:
The justification for red pill men RPM sleeping around is the sexual liberation women have and use liberally. No man wants to hold the short end of the stick at the end of the day, that's why we always want to know our women's sexual history. I don't want to have a measly two women under my belt while my wife has like 35. No way.

A red pill man who sleeps around because women are more sexually 'liberal' is a fool and defintely not a man worth having. This paragraph is as crazy as a NL lady who was happy that her friend dumped her ex days to the wedding because men jilt women. This is where I differ with the two schools of thought:
School 1: a man can sleep with as many girls as possible while a girl must be chaste.
School 2: a woman is free to sleep around because men do.

I believe both parties must be as chaste as possible. if as a man , I have kept myself, what is my business with women who have played the field? I will seek for a woman with my values ditto a woman.

I wanted a guy with as little body count as possible and I got it even better. I do not want a man who has wasted his youth sleeping about. Sex is spiritual as it is physical. I believe it is about values really, My siblings and I were brought up to be sexually pure and i am glad we stayed d on track.

Timbuktuo:
IMO a red pill girl is a step in the right direction. If more women became red pill, they could effect less promiscuity among men. The more sexually liberal women become, the more sexually liberal men become. If a woman is trying to become wife material, more power to her elbow I say.

Men who are supposed to lead and dominant are waiting for women's lead on sexual purity? Super amazing. The pastor who did our counselling was telling us how older men used to do crash courses on sex for 'brothers' who were getting married because they were virgins. those men stood up for the right thing and naturally sought women their tastes.

Timbuktuo:
Per the gender wars thing, the west is ahead of us in terms of liberalism in relationships and they naturally have seen its ill effects. Divorce is just beginning to gain ground here and they had it on a massive scale sice the late 80s. I think we would do well to learn from their own experiences.

2. By the way, as a Christian, which you claim to be, submission shouldn't repulse you. I believe there is no such thing as a Christian feminist, not that I live by the Bible anyway. Just saying you cannot argue from the Christian Bible and feminist Bible at the same time.

@Divorce, I think both societies have different issues. Here, we are used to patching up abuse and infidelity that when spouses decide to move on, we scream divorce rates. And I will wage that most of the divorce rates referenced women initiating the divorce. The instances where men send the wives packing or walk out on them to start new families with their concubines are not counted.

2. I doubt I mentioned submission repulsed me. I said there can be no red pill girl because what she wants is an antithesis to what red pill has to offer. There is something called purple pill which takes the good characteristics from both sides. She can at best be purple pill. Same way, I referenced two Christian bloggers who believe in submission for different reasons. Please send me a copy of the feminist bible, I need to see what's it.

Timbuktuo:
Your last paragraph: marriage has always been about raising children in a conducive environment which money was a huge indicator of. I'm sure our ancestors didn't marry for love, I'm sure it didn't even cross their minds that such a think could exist . Our fathers are turning in their graves as we sell out our manhood for the promise of affection

Is it not better for my blood to inherit my property than some manipulative opportunist? Why should my widow inherit my property when she only tolerated me when I was alive and she would probably remarry following my demise? Who knows if she even was responsible for my demise in the first place?

You see why our forefathers were wise? Polygamy was the default, bit you new school people say it's barbaric and archaic. "Marry for love" you say, but love is a scam. I am fully content to be a serial monogamist, I wouldn't try polygamy. Any woman that cannot abide by my ways will be summarily replaced. She can go and argue with her forefathers.

Your blood that also might have killed you for the properties? Marriage is a lifelong contract which ends at death so what your wife does after your demise is really none of your business.

If you do not want your wife to inherit your properties, then don't pool resources together to do any projects and don't be offended when she decides to sort herself out with/without your knowledge.

What is the difference between polygamy and serial monogamy?

Marriage for love works fine for me. It is the only platform where you get spouses who like you for you.

Timbuktuo:


Is it not better for my blood to inherit my property than some manipulative opportunist? Why should my widow inherit my property when she only tolerated me when I was alive and she would probably remarry following my demise? Who knows if she even was responsible for my demise in the first place?

You see why our forefathers were wise? Polygamy was the default, bit you new school people say it's barbaric and archaic. "Marry for love" you say, but love is a scam. I am fully content to be a serial monogamist, I wouldn't try polygamy. Any woman that cannot abide by my ways will be summarily replaced. She can go and argue with her forefathers.

Tim, did you know our grandfather didn't have it easy practicing polygamy? Wives arguing and fighting, jealous, envy, children hating each others and many other strife. No, they weren't that wise. They just did what they got to do as farmlands need hands.
Marry for love with a mindset you both weather the storms of life.
When two people are involved, it's our way- not just your or my way.

tv01
cococandy
freecocoa
freshvine

romme2u:

tv01 cococandy freecocoa freshvine

freecocoa, is she still roaming the earth?

romme2u:

tv01 cococandy freecocoa freshvine

freecocoa, is she still roaming the earth?

armyofone:


Tim, did you know our grandfather didn't have it easy practicing polygamy? Wives arguing and fighting, jealous, envy, children hating each others and many other strife. No, they weren't that wise. They just did what they got to do as farmlands need hands.
Marry for love with a mindset you both weather the storms of life.
When two people are involved, it's our way- not just your or my way.

I agree polygamy is quite the handful, and practising it in today's world would be even worse. That said, I would like to reiterate that I'm very open to divorce and maybe remarriage. This isn't because I hate women, but human nature us what it is. I'm over 30 and I've had relationships, I've seen marriages and there's a common thread that runs through them all. If I do eventually get married, I pray I'm lucky to find a woman who'll understand me, and share my values and be loyal to the union and the family as I intend to be. If I marry something who appears to be all these things and who turns out to be disappointing, I will not endure.

There are duties and responsibilities I'll be expected to fulfill and I fully intend to, I also fully expect to be accorded the privileges that soneone in my position should enjoy. I will not tolerate any shortchanging because I myself will be giving my all and will not be shortchanging anyone.

Mindfulness:


A woman in her 30s is old? Oh my God! I need to make preparations for my funeral.

I don't know about you grandpa but I am as fresh as ever and I could have you over and over again. I bet my azz.

We could definitely have a sexual relationship, marriage though, maybe if I were in my late 40s-50s would I consider someone above 26. . If I decide to marry a 30 year old she would have to be exceptionally exceptional.