I want everyone jumping into this thread to bear one thing in mind. This is not.

Atheist versus theist argument.

This is not an argument of one person must be wrong and the other right. I'd rather enjoy an argument based on clear cut objectiveness to the subject raised where we all admit to the validity of each other's points to the discussion.

No personal banter, no emotional arguments. let's just have a productive discussion even if we do not agree, we still learn a bit more from each other.

For the sake of intellectual exercise, i will take no position based on the subject, i will present my points and counter points from both perspectives.

So let us start.. the premise is.

Does God exist?

bring your points for or against the premise, or just ask questions you deem important..

You are ma...

God exists and that's why you dey find idle people to argue with

on a serious note, I think God exist but what I'm not sure of is that we don't know the "God" that exist or rather our perception of the existence of God, I mean in form, shape, composition and all sort if that might be wrong.
the question about the existence of God revolves around the dichotomy on religion and science. As such, it will be wrong to examine the existence of God through sciences – the only mean which we can arrive at fact. as such the existence of God can not be justify through the analysis of empirical fact and even if it should, is there anything like empirical fact that acknowledge the existence of God? empirically we can say God/gods doesn't exist.
since the only way to arrive at the truth which is science is not suitable enough for the explanations of existence of God. I would like to defend the existence of God through my little analysis.
Here are the facts:

spiritual realm
magic(not deception)
witch and wizard
Ghost etc
since we believe in the existence of the aforementioned facts. It's possible there is hierarchy in spiritual realm or not. if the former is the case, we can say the spirit that's most powerful and can influence others is the God. this "GOD" might not be the one we all know.
and if we should think of it, this analysis is wrong in the sense that their is no uniformity in what this God, supreme supernatural being says. for example Christian and Muslim serve the same God and diff are observable in their perception of God and and even church doctrine differs. if we should take this as a fact, we can say we have many God and there is no hierarchy in spiritual realm. hence there are Gods.

note i don't go to church.
if you think God doesn't exist you can come pay me a visit. I'm from iwaro. I will simply take you to IRUN AKOKO.

fulaniHERDSman:
God exists and that's why you dey find idle people to argue with

You are probably right or maybe it is the other way round

mumureloaded:
on a serious note, I think God exist but what I'm not sure of is that

do you have reasons why you think God may exist?

God exists.

enilove:
God exists.

why?

Of course God exists. There must be a supernatural being responsible for the creation of the universe.

God exist... 1st i heard about Him Then i believed And when i pray He answers.

@johnnydon22,

"But what is a god? "...........asked the igtheist.

"God is not singular, he is plural"..............said the adevist.

"God exists only in prehistoric caveman books".................said the anthropotheist."

"Anytime I want to see god, I look in the mirror ".......................said the ophidian suitheist.

Treasure17:
Of course God exists. There must be a supernatural being responsible for the creation of the universe.

Why do you think the creation of the universe must require a supernatural causality?

care to explain to us what supernatural means in this context?

LiXxGH:
God exist...
1st i heard about Him
Then i believed
And when i pray He answers.

God talked to you?
Now that is another dimension? do you mind if we go deeper on this information?

Niflheim:
@johnnydon22,

"But what is a god? "...........asked the igtheist.

"God is not singular, he is plural"..............said the adevist.

"God exists only in prehistoric caveman books".................said the anthropotheist."

"Anytime I want to see god, I look in the mirror ".......................said the ophidian suitheist.

So a definition of the terms of the premise is necessary then?

@johnnydon22,
Yes!!!

johnydon22:


why?

The clothes you are putting on , your shoes , TV , the house you live were made by someone . Why do think that the universe, as complex and perfect as it is was not the handwork of someone?

Take for example the fruits of various kinds and their sweetness . How do they come about their sweetness , from the soil or from the sky. Can science derive sweetness from the soil ?

Also , how come the fruits are never sandy , despite the facts that they are products of the soil ?

There is a Creator that made all these things.

enilove:


The clothes you are putting on , your shoes , TV , the house you live were made by someone . Why do think that the universe, as complex and perfect as it is was not the handwork of someone?

Take for example the fruits of various kinds and their sweetness . How do they come about their sweetness , from the soil or from the sky. Can science derive sweetness from the soil ?

Also , how come the fruits are never sandy , despite the facts that they are products of the soil ?

There is a Creator that made all these things.

So your argument basically is hinting that complexity must have a causality?

correct?

purem:


If a question like this can come from one of the most knowledgeable atheist on nairaland then someone like me cannot be atheists

Just for intellectual exercise. we need to listen to each other more often. Its not always about who is right or who is right, it should be about what is right?

However one cannot basically assume that God does or doesn't exist

There are so many things we can assume, but that does not affect objective truths.

Theist claims that if God doesn't exist why do you spent most of your time arguing about his inexistence?

That is like asking, if the earth is not flat, why would people be seen arguing it.
I think this is quite an absurd remark from people who toll such line of such, it is wrong in so many ways. existential probability or possibility of a subject does not depend on the argumentative nature of its concept.

Niflheim:
@johnnydon22,

Yes!!!

Ok let me see:

A transcendant all powerful (not necessarily) but ultimate entity usually attributed with the role of cosmological causality.

Personally for now, I can't really say that God doesn't exist until science explains the origin and the source of energy responsible for bigbang but I still strongly believe that God doesnt interfere in the proceeding of the universe via miracle and supernatural means

enilove:


The clothes you are putting on , your shoes , TV , the house you live were made by someone . Why do think that the universe, as complex and perfect as it is was not the handwork of someone?

Take for example the fruits of various kinds and their sweetness . How do they come about their sweetness , from the soil or from the sky. Can science derive sweetness from the soil ?

Also , how come the fruits are never sandy , despite the facts that they are products of the soil ?

There is a Creator that made all these things.

lol, how come fruits are not sandy?

Is this really a point?

nwabekeyi:
Personally for now, I can't really say that God doesn't exist until science explains the origin and the source of energy responsible for bigbang

So fundamentally for you, God is a placeholder for a yet to be determined knowledge? God holds the distinction until we figure it out then we take it from God?

I doubt if objectiveness works with placeholders.

but I still strongly believe that God doesnt interfere in the proceeding of the universe via miracle and supernatural means

A non-intervening God, Great idea.

nwabekeyi:
lol, how come fruits are not sandy?

Is this really a point?

How come sands are not fruity?

johnydon22:
Just for intellectual exercise. we need to listen to each other more often. Its not always about who is right or who is right, it should be about what is right?

There are so many things we can assume, but that does not affect objective truths.



That is like asking, if the earth is not flat, why would people be seen arguing it.
I think this is quite an absurd remark from people who toll such line of such, it is wrong in so many ways. existential probability or possibility of a subject does not depend on the argumentative nature of its concept.

I solemnly believe that if God does exist this world wouldn't be like this

purem:


I solemnly believe that if God does exist this world wouldn't be like this

How would you suppose it would or should be?

johnydon22:
How would you suppose it would or should be?

Haa! Base on the fairy tales religion make us to believe

The world should be better than this

YES there is a God and he is a supernatural beign.if homes are headed by the father.states by governors,countries by presidents,then who rules the universe?
Everything is placed on hirachy,for every boss has a boss and who is the final boss?
If you as an employee say i am the owner of this organisation do you think no one will chalange you.
But God said i am that i am,i created the heavens and the earth,and all that is in it.
I am the lord of lords,the king of kings,the begining and the end ,the alpha and omega
i made the heaven my resting place and the earth my footstool,and i place the heaven high above the earth.
ALL THESE STATEMENTS MADE WAS NEVER CHALLENGED BY ANYBODY
this is to tell unbelivers that he is the nunber one man living with all power and authority which makes him a supernaturan beign for there is none like him.

Is there a God or not? I know not. However if anyone, for whatever reason, believes in a creator being, he or she can only go as far as saying "I believe in a creator being." nothing more nothing less. Such can't say that he/she knows this creator, it's will, it's rules, it's name, how it created the universe and where we are going. That knowledge is beyond any human at this point and it would be baffling to state that authoritatively.

If there happens to be a God, it certainly :
1) isn't perfect but might be why sophisticated, efficient and intelligent beyond our standard.
2) isn't interested in humanity's affair.
3) isn't interested in revealing itself.

Sorry if my answer has not be definite.

@enilove your claim is absurd in every sense

If you claim that a supernatural force is behind the cause of all existence then what/who is behind the force?

For him to create all this then he must have a creator

johnydon22:


So your argument basically is hinting that complexity must have a causality?

correct?

Let me put it in the right sentence for you , " there is no creation without a Creator except God.

purem:
@enilove your claim is absurd in every sense

If you claim that a supernatural force is behind the cause of all existence then what/who is behind the force?

For him to create all this then he must have a creator

You are wrong.
Everything you can think of was created but GOD was not created and that is why He is the Almighty Creator.