.

nwabekeyi:
lol, how come fruits are not sandy?
Is this really a point?

Yes , it is. That is perfection from a Perfect Creator.

enilove:



Let me put it in the right sentence for you , " there is no creation without a Creator except God.

So God is proof that something can be complex and exist without being created?

If there is none like him,it makes him a God

Before we get started, can you explain to us what you mean by GOD? That word is ambiguous which mean different things to different people. In some cultures, something or someone can grow into what we call 'god' or gain divinity status. While also, some things just take upon the title 'god' for a reason best know to adherents. So God is just a title, tag or height. This brought us to another question....what makes god a god? To address your question, God does exist but it depends on what you call God. To some people, it is a river, rock, tree, energy or even human. Commonsense tells us that these things exist but the question if they are God or not is another thing.

From observation, most people tend to view God as ultimate creator of the universe. To some extent, without been sentimental, the creator of the universe exist. We may not accept some of the Gods' concepts but beyond every expression, imagination, abstraction and reasoning, there exist a creator God which I call 'The Cause'.

From a logical stance, nothing just happen without a trigger, without a cause, and without a push. The cause might not necessarily be intelligent or serve an purpose. However, there is always a cause which some people call God.

Let's take it from big bang. The explosion from the minute tiny dot didn't happen. The dot didn't just magically appear. Something would cause the explosion to happen. That thing is God, the creator God.

That cause if you bring it down to Yoruba spirituality is called Eledumare. I have tried to make this argument with my other moniker but it seems people do not really understand it too well. In Yoruba spirituality, there is little known about Eledumare. He/It does not have form, no human nature, and doesn't interfare with the world. What we know, certainly, is that He/It is the source of all things; norm and orderliness, law and nature as we generally understand. And the Orishas are the manifestation of Eledumare.

johnydon22:
So God is proof that something can be complex and exist without being created?

No.

God is the ONLY Creator that was not created.

enilove:


You are wrong.
Everything you can think of was created but GOD was not created and that is why He is the Almighty Creator.

Are you saying God has been in existence since inexistence?

johnydon22:


Why do you think the creation of the universe must require a supernatural causality?

care to explain to us what supernatural means in this context?

Here is the thing. For the fact that there's a creation, definitely there must be a creator behind the creation. The creation require supernatural ideas and rationality because when you look at the creation you will discover that things don't just exist on their own. These things are beyond human comprehension.
Supernatural in this context means invincible being.

enilove:


No.

God is the ONLY Creator that was not created.

Jesus was called God...was he not created?

purem:



Are you saying God has been in existence since inexistence?

Yes, since the inexistence of His creations.

In the spiritual , there is no time frame. It was when God created the earth that He gave time and season for the inhabitants of the earth.

Genesis 1:14 KJV
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

GodFreyinNORSE:

Jesus was called God...was he not created?

Jesus was created by God the Father , but God the Father was not created :

A God to me is a beign that superseeds every other beign created.with a very high and extream quality in which no one posesses.that is why he says have no other God but me cos am a jealous God.if u call a tree a god makes it ur creator and placing it above the living God.He is in charge in controll and has authority over everythin both on earth in heaven and below the earth.supream power makes him a GOD

enilove:


Jesus was created by God the Father , but God the Father was not created :

Jesus was not created he is a creator he is a God for there are three persons in one God

enilove:


Jesus was created by God the Father , but God the Father was not created :

We are getting closer.

But Jesus is a God. Because one of his disciple called him a God.

A little digression. The Father inherited Israel from someone. Could that mean there is someone before the FATHER?

Let me help you.. Psalm 94:14
For the LORD will not reject his people; he will never forsake his inheritance.

Inheritance can be defined as the practice of passing on property, titles, debts, rights, and obligations upon the death of an individual. Latin root is inhereditare, "to appoint as heir." The meaning changed in the 14th century to "receive, to be the heir."

This mean the Father God is the heir of someone who alloted to him, Israel. Who is this someone? I ran across a document that held that Yahweh just like Ashtar, Chemosh, Baal are the son of El

enilove:


No.

God is the ONLY Creator that was not created.

What was God doing for all those zillions of years before the idea of creating a universe crossed his mind? Did he get bored?

Spiye06:
Jesus was not created he is a creator he is a God for there are three persons in one God

Read these :

Hebrews 1:5-6 KJV
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? [6] And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Revelation 3:12 KJV
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

TayserMahiri:


What was God doing for all those zillions of years before the idea of creating a universe crossed his mind? Did he get bored?

There was no zillions of years , time and seasons stated existing here on earth after the creation of the earth.

enilove:


There was no zillions of years , time and seasons stated existing here on earth after the creation of the earth.

So there is no gap between God's existence since the infinite past and when he decided to create a universe? The universe is roughly 13.7 billion yrs old so thats not forever, there must have been that period when God was all alone. What was he doing?

Your response was quite scientific btw, space and time began with the big bang. But clearly God is older as per your asertion

GodFreyinNORSE:


We are getting closer.

But Jesus is a God. Because one of his disciple called him a God.

A little digression. The Father inherited Israel from someone. Could that mean there is someone before the FATHER?

Let me help you.. Psalm 94:14
For the LORD will not reject his people; he will never forsake his inheritance.

Inheritance can be defined as the practice of passing on property, titles, debts, rights, and obligations upon the death of an individual. Latin root is inhereditare, "to appoint as heir." The meaning changed in the 14th century to "receive, to be the heir."

This mean the Father God is the heir of someone who alloted to him, Israel. Who is this someone? I ran across a document that held that Yahweh just like Ashtar, Chemosh, Baal are the son of El

The Lord in psalm 94:14 , is not God the Father but God the son.
Jesus inherited Israel and the saints from the Father :

John 17:9-12 KJV
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
[10] And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are .
[12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

enilove:



The Lord in psalm 94:14 , is not God the Father but God the son.
Jesus inherited Israel and the saints from the Father :

John 17:9-12 KJV
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
[10] And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are .
[12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Are you in any way telling us Jesus is the same person as Yahweh, also known as Jehovah?

Because in Deut 32:9

World English Bible
For Yahweh's portion is his people. Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

Young's Literal Translation
For Jehovah's portion is His people, Jacob is the line of His inheritance.


The bible noted that another God, Chemosh inherited Moab. Numbers 21:29, the god Chemosh is assigned to the people of Moab. So is Baal and Ashtar. Do you mean these are the God the son like Jesus?

If Yahweh could inherit a people, a land; who did he inherit it from?

Let me help you. El Elyon is the cannanite king of Gods. He is the Father of Yahweh. This mean that the God you worship was created.

mumureloaded:
on a serious note, I think God exist but what I'm not sure of is that we don't know the "God" that exist or rather our perception of the existence of God, I mean in form, shape, composition and all sort if that might be wrong.
the question about the existence of God revolves around the dichotomy on religion and science. As such, it will be wrong to examine the existence of God through sciences – the only mean which we can arrive at fact. as such the existence of God can not be justify through the analysis of empirical fact and even if it should, is there anything like empirical fact that acknowledge the existence of God? empirically we can say God/gods doesn't exist.
since the only way to arrive at the truth which is science is not suitable enough for the explanations of existence of God. I would like to defend the existence of God through my little analysis.
Here are the facts:

spiritual realm
magic(not deception)
witch and wizard
Ghost etc
since we believe in the existence of the aforementioned facts. It's possible there is hierarchy in spiritual realm or not. if the former is the case, we can say the spirit that's most powerful and can influence others is the God. this "GOD" might not be the one we all know.
and if we should think of it, this analysis is wrong in the sense that their is no uniformity in what this God, supreme supernatural being says. for example Christian and Muslim serve the same God and diff are observable in their perception of God and and even church doctrine differs. if we should take this as a fact, we can say we have many God and there is no hierarchy in spiritual realm. hence there are Gods.

note i don't go to church.
if you think God doesn't exist you can come pay me a visit. I'm from iwaro. I will simply take you to IRUN AKOKO.

And what happens at irun akoko?

GodFreyinNORSE:




Are you in any way telling us Jesus is the same person as Yahweh, also known as Jehovah?

Because in Deut 32:9

World English Bible
For Yahweh's portion is his people. Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

Young's Literal Translation
For Jehovah's portion is His people, Jacob is the line of His inheritance.


The bible noted that another God, Chemosh inherited Moab. Numbers 21:29, the god Chemosh is assigned to the people of Moab. So is Baal and Ashtar. Do you mean these are the God the son like Jesus?

If Yahweh could inherit a people, a land; who did he inherit it from?

Let me help you. El Elyon is the cannanite king of Gods. He is the Father of Yahweh. This mean that the God you worship was created.

What you are practicing is the religion of the devil. That is , you are a satanist .

You can still be free from the shackles of the devil.

The does not love you , he will use you and destroy you.

enilove:


What you are practicing is the religion of the devil. That is , you are a satanist .

You can still be free from the shackles of the devil.

The does not love you , he will use you and destroy you.

These are facts from the bible.

And the fact are;

Yahweh has a Father called El Elyon mostly referred to as Most High.

Yahweh didn't own the world. But rather, he inherited Israel which is his portion of the allotment. Chemosh got Moab. Ishtar (called Queen of Heaven) got Assyria while Baal got Babylon. These three are part of the 70 children of El.

Yahweh was created.

So maybe in your own order, he is not God

TayserMahiri:


So there is no gap between God's existence since the infinite past and when he decided to create a universe? The universe is roughly 13.7 billion yrs old so thats not forever, there must have been that period when God was all alone. What was he doing?

Your response was quite scientific btw, space and time began with the big bang. But clearly God is older as per your asertion

There is nothing like "big bang". It is simply telling people that there was a creator , that caused the big bang , but denying existence of God.

It is inverably saying that this universe came into existence by chance , which is not possible.

The Bible recorded an event that took place in Egypt about 3, 000 years ago. The Bible says God divided the Red Sea into 2 parts for about 12 hours for the Israelites to escape death from Pharaoh the king in Egypt. It says that the Egyptians perished in that sea.

Who can divide a Sea and rivers if not the Creator that knows in and out of how the Sea came into existence?

op I remember you said that personal beliefs and sentiments would not be entertained,well I guess it can't be helped,Christians would always impose their beliefs on others they don't care about bringing evidence

Dacronym:

And what happens at irun akoko?

nothing bro, is just that after the "trip", you won't need prove for the existence of God/gods anymore.

johnydon22:


God talked to you?
Now that is another dimension? do you mind if we go deeper on this information?

He indirectly talked to me through my pastor who believes in the same God...Though everyone has his/her own God or god, i strongly believe mine does exist. Now to clear up things, i sat one on one with my pastor for the first time during counceling and he began telling me stuff i did in the past which i thought no one will or would ever know, then i felt so ashamed and remoseful...u think this could be magic and not the power of God?

please watch supernatural season 11... the last 3 episodes. you'll understand better

enilove:


There is nothing like "big bang". It is simply telling people that there was a creator , that caused the big bang , but denying existence of God.

It is inverably saying that this universe came into existence by chance , which is not possible.

The Bible recorded an event that took place in Egypt about 3, 000 years ago. The Bible says God divided the Red Sea into 2 parts for about 12 hours for the Israelites to escape death from Pharaoh the king in Egypt. It says that the Egyptians perished in that sea.

Who can divide a Sea and rivers if not the Creator that knows in and out of how the Sea came into existence?

Yet there is overwhelming and interlocking evidence for the big bang ! I think you should own up and accept that if God was always in existence then he must be a very slow guy. All that time (lets give him 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years)

and thats still a very small number compared to infinity, lets add a million zeros 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

and all he came up with was a planet as messed up as this one? Where one of the biggest source of murders is over who is the correct one between him and his competitor gods?!

If you dont like the idea of something happening by chance then thats strictly your personal problem.

Theres no evidence for that red sea nonsense, yet it happened only 3 millenia ago (supposedly), when we have evidence of two people using fire to cook in a cave 20,000 years ago ! That kind of confident story should be told strictly to people who wallow within your religious viewpoint and not to everyone. Trying telling that to other people and they will think you are being ignorant. Sometimes you just wonder how people believe these kinds of stories its almost like they cant think. God could just have killed the soldiers by saying 'tufiakwa', whatever that means, and the Israelites wouldnt have had to run helter skelter. Or who was he trying to please with the parting? Himself? The people? That story is a myth, the funny thing if the same story was told to you from one of the African tribes you wouldnt even waste your time giving it a thought. It would be so obvious its a myth.

If life came by "Chance" ( the big bang) then "Chance" must be very very intelligent!.

Intelligent in that, everything Chance created works beautifully hand in hand.

To mention but a few , Chance created

the Sun,
the moon
the stars,
the Air,
the water
the man
the trees
And the Animals

But can "Chance" be intelligent?

Is Chance a living thing?

We need to know and come to the knowledge of this before we proceed on this matter.

The Big bang theory says a sudden explosion occurred and every thing both living and non living came to existence.

That means that the sudden explosion called the Big Bang was created by chance. Which eventually created the universe.

If the Big Bang is an explosion, it means it is a Non Living thing.
Uhhm. Abi?

So "Chance" is non living and can never ever be intelligent.
Only a Being with a Brain can be intelligent. And it could only be Someone.

Now if Chance created the Universe and everything there in, then Chance must be extremely intelligent to have known where and how to place or create each creation without any flaw that would have spelled doom for the world and its inhabitants.

Everyone knows that without the Sun, there is no life!
And the Scientists even claim that if the sun had been a little farther than it is, the earth would be frozen and if it had been placed closer than it is, no living thing would exist on the earth either for excessive heat.

Then this Chance must be intelligent!

but unfortunately it can not think?
It is not a living thing! Oops!


If there was no provision of Water, nothing will live on the earth also, What about the Air we breath
If there was no Air nothing would live on the earth. ( Man breaths in oxygen and breaths out carbon dioxide while plants breath in carbon dioxide and release oxygen) What a cycle!

The Big Bang is intelligent! but can not think?

It is non living

What about water. No water no life and yet the Big bang knew water is essential to life and so made provision for it.

What a smart non living thing!

Brainless but smart? is it possible?

The water Cycle nko.

The Sun does it job through evaporation and the rain does its own by pouring it down.

The Big Bang is wonderfully smart! Reasoning without a brain

Now come to think of we humans that the "Big Bang created" without a sense!

A non living thing creating living things. Wonders shall never end

What a awesome Irony !

The Big bang without a Brain gave us brain knowing so well we will need it to think.
the same thinking it does without a brain. Wow!

Now he gave us all the organs each for different tasks. And if by mistake you give the Nose the job of the Mouth or the Ear the job of the nose it is catastrophic.
The Big Bang made every one perfectly designed without an error. despite the fact that it is by Chance!

Lastly, Check the make of Man and see the wonderful work of "Chance".

The Digestive System. from one step to the order.

The Eye lense,

The Heart beat and the blood network

The brain sections controlling every part of the body to the smallest.
The body antibiotics etc.

All came through the Big Bang's intelligence! the same called " Chance"

Finally no Sensible human should believe Chance made all things working perfectly for the smooth running of life.

Because Chance or the Big Bang has no Sense because it is a non living.

And only a senseless beign would believe a Non living made a Living.

Chance is as good as a Mistake
and Mistakes don't make a living thing but rather it is a living thing that can make a Mistake



God Exists, He intelligently made all things.

It obvious Now. Think!

Treasure17:

Here is the thing. For the fact that there's a creation, definitely there must be a creator behind the creation. The creation require supernatural ideas and rationality because when you look at the creation you will discover that things don't just exist on their own. These things are beyond human comprehension.
Supernatural in this context means invincible being.

Going by your assertion don't you think 'God' also needs a creator since "things don't just exist on their own"?

enilove:


Yes , it is. That is perfection from a Perfect Creator.

if you understand elementary biology, then you won't see anything mysterious about that