Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / NewStats: 3,200,444 members, 7,974,824 topics. Date: Monday, 14 October 2024 at 11:33 AM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Born-again And Baptism (1858 Views)
Pastor Drowns While Conducting Baptism At Blood River Village In South Africa / Born Again Lady Removes Her Tattoo With Hot Iron (Photos) / Former Cultists, Prostitutes And Militants Undergo Water Baptism In Rivers. PICS (2) (3) (4)
Born-again And Baptism by Ubongdemaga: 7:55am On May 11, 2018 |
Please friends can someone be a born-again Christian without baptism? |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by paxonel(m): 8:33am On May 11, 2018 |
Ubongdemaga:baptism is any kind of ceremony to initiate new adherents to a religion. For christianity and Judaism the ceremony was water immersion. Take note : baptism was conducted on people who are willing to change their religion so being born again is totally out of it. Everyone are baptized, bad or good people alike. It is far more better to be baptized into christianity than to be born again |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Zanas: 9:13am On May 11, 2018 |
paxonel:The bolded comment is arrant Nonsense!! 2 Likes |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by paxonel(m): 9:21am On May 11, 2018 |
Zanas:prove that it is non sense you cannot. It is easy to talk but hard to defend your comment |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Gullah: 9:32am On May 11, 2018 |
Ubongdemaga:Yes you can be born again without being baptized. Baptism is not a prerequisite to being born again. The moment you believe in Jesus and ask Him to come into your life, you are saved. However, baptism is an important ceremony for born again Christians to partake in. It's a representation of your death to sin and resurrection to a new life in Christ, it also symbolizes your partaking in the death and resurrection of Christ. Just like the holy communion, it was one of the ceremonies ordained by Christ Himself to the Apostles and it is very important that after accepting Jesus into your life that you partake in this in obedience to His holy ordinance as not doing so would then amount to living in disobedience to God's ordinance. If a born again Christian however did not have the opportunity to be baptized before he dies, that does not nullify his salvation, The baptism is not what saves, it is believing and accepting Jesus into your life that saves. I know a lot of people who went and participated in baptism without accepting Jesus, some were even baptized as kids when they didn't have full consciousness of their actions, that kind of baptism does not save the recipient of it or make them born again. Don't doubt your salvation if you haven't yet had the opportunity to be babtized after receiving Christ, You are still a child of God!! However endeavour to partake in the baptism ordinance as soon as you have the opportunity to do so 3 Likes |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Zanas: 9:36am On May 11, 2018 |
paxonel:It is nonsense because what makes you a child of God is the fact that you are born again and not baptism so how can baptism be better than being born again? What about those who partake in baptism without being saved? Are you saying that they are better than those who are born again? 1 Like |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by PaChukwudi44(m): 9:38am On May 11, 2018 |
Ubongdemaga: capital NO. Baptism is the actual,meaning of born again not the one peddled by pentecostals 3 Likes |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by PaChukwudi44(m): 9:39am On May 11, 2018 |
Zanas: How can you be a child of God without baptism? Kindly educate me.You obviously have no idea about what it means to be born again |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Zanas: 9:45am On May 11, 2018 |
PaChukwudi44:You become born again when you believe in the lord Jesus and receive him into your life, baptism is a symbolism of what has already happened. Now let me ask you, if someone was preached to while on a journey in a plane or bus and the person repents, asks God for forgiveness and accepts Jesus and before getting to his destination, they have an accident and the person dies, is he saved or not? Even though he isn't baptized yet, is he not a child of God? 1 Like |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by paxonel(m): 10:53am On May 11, 2018 |
Zanas:anyway understand this now, Being born again cannot bring salvation. It is faith that brings salvation, Jesus says I'm the way the truth and the life, So Jesus is your faith. Being born again is not the same thing as the christian faith |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Nobody: 11:43am On May 11, 2018 |
The book of Ephesians 2:8-9 , You are saved though faith which is a gift from God, salvation. Confessions when a man confesses his sins and acknowledge the Lordship of Jesus as his personal saviour, he is saved by faith as a result of that open declaration, but he's not yet truly born again... Roman10:10 . For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Being born again is where your spirituality lies. You can't move or operate in the things of God without being born again. And how you become born again is when you're born of water n of the spirit. (john3:3-8 ) Water Baptism This is the practical outward declaration of the confession a man makes when he accepts Jesus. It's the baptism of repentance. A man is immerse in water, he dies to the flesh , he is raised up from the water and he is raised up a new man and is now united in With Christ as one in the spirit. This is an expression or a clear exposition of your faith. Because u are already saved by faith and by this practical or work it's confirmed. (James 2:26)For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Holy Spirit or fire baptism This is when the spirit of God bears witness or confirms that we are sons of God (Romans 8:16).. By this, you are being empowered by the Holy Spirit to do exploits (Acts 1:8 ). This is the final and true baptism. To be born of the spirit is to be born of God and every one born of God has the spirit of God which quickens you to pray, fast, meditate on the word and so on. He that is born of God cannot also sin(1john 3:9) without these you can't be born again... Every Christian believer ought to be genuinely born again . 1 Like |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by orunto27: 11:58am On May 11, 2018 |
BornAgain is Baptism of The Holy Spirit. |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by PaChukwudi44(m): 1:15pm On May 11, 2018 |
Jesus clearly said unless you are born of water(baptism) and the spirit you cannot be saved.Do not allow Pentecostals to deceive you.Without baptism you are no christian |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by paxonel(m): 1:25pm On May 11, 2018 |
Jacksonville:this is absolutely correct confess of sin and confessing christ are not the same thing. Confession of sin cannot bring salvation, it is confessing Christ that brings salvation it is referring to confessing Christ here, not confession of sin you are only assuming, you have to be very sure of what you are saying as at the time Jesus met Nicodemus in John 3:3 there was no christianity, christianity only started after Jesus resurrected then how come born again is now associated with christianity? All I'm saying is, what Jesus meant by born again to Nicodemus is a different thing entirely when John the Baptist preached baptism of repentance and baptized people, were the people he baptized died to the flesh and raise up a new man in spirit? You are just mixing up things |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Ubongdemaga: 3:03pm On May 11, 2018 |
Gullah:but the early Christians were baptized immediately they accept Christ and God poor them holy spirit. But don't u believe being born again u need to die by immersion in water and when u resurrect that's coming out of water u r now a new creature in Christ? |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Nobody: 4:33pm On May 11, 2018 |
Ubongdemaga:yes of course, infact someone must be born again before he can be baptised or else baptism becomes a meaningless religious activities. Being born again is a Spiritual change that takes place when a man is saved. Baptism is a physical symbolic activity that shows what has happened to him an evidence of his conversion to others. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Nobody: 4:40pm On May 11, 2018 |
PaChukwudi44:so the theif on the cross who was not baptised was not saved? Baptism cannot save you neither will any religious activities save you. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Nobody: 4:41pm On May 11, 2018 |
paxonel: You are quoting me out of context. Believe what you want to . These are basic teachings that need not be disputed. Now tell me what Jesus meant by being born again? Do you think it's every man that undergoes water baptism that is truly repentant? Some dunno what it means hence, they fall again and What water baptism signifies is the death in flesh n ressurection to the spirit ... That is why John said "he that is to come whose shoe I'm not worthy to unlace will baptise u with fire " . Nicodemus wanted to know why Jesus operated the way he did and Jesus told him "Except a man be born again" (John 3).. I say again, if u are not born of God u can't move in the things of God. Everything I said up there were with scriptural backings. When a man confesses his sins/forsake his sins and acknowledges Christ as his saviour he is saved. This is what I preach everyday... Only if you read your Bible and did your homework well you wouldn't be up to this. 1 Like |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by UbiPetrus: 5:06pm On May 11, 2018 |
solite3:"1 Peter 3:21. "Baptism now saves you." Looks like the Apostle Peter had a different opinion. |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by paxonel(m): 6:59pm On May 11, 2018 |
Jacksonville:what I will say now is done out of research. follow this dialogue carefully between Jesus and Nicodemus. Note that there was already a written prophecy about the events that will happen before the crucifixion of Jesus. Nicodemus was a master(only masters had access to the written scripts in those days) . Nicodemus perhaps came across the term born again in the script but he could not understand what it meant. So, when Jesus quoted the script to him by saying Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.(john 3:3) Nicodemus remembered that he came across something like that in the script, so he asked Jesus How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?(John 3:4) But Jesus told him, you must be born of water and of spirit. He was still confused Then Jesus told him Marvel not(meaning don't be confused) that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Jesus then came up with this parable The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.(john 3:8 ) Now, if you follow the formatt Jesus used to explain one of his parables in Matt 13:37-40. use that same formatt you will understand this parable as well The wind bloweth = the crowd of people following Jesus to Jerusalem where he was to be crucified (Jesus begins his journey from Galilee and ended it at Jerusalem) Every wind have direction where they are coming from and where they are going to. Nicodemus saw this crowd of disciples following Jesus(about 5000 disciples who eat five bread and two fishes), he did not understand where they are coming from and where they are going to. Remember, Jesus saw Peter, James and others, he asked them follow me, straight away they followed Jesus. That is how it all started. These crowd of disciples following Jesus are the born again according to the parable(so is every man that is born again. John 3:9 ) Now, the crowd of disciples nicodemus saw was fulfilment of the prophecy he saw in the script that is what Jesus wanted him to know and join the crowd. Why was there need of crowd of disciples following Jesus? Because, without them following Jesus they will not see Gods kingdom which was to be at Jerusalem their destination. Hence, Except a man(of that time, not now) be born again(follow Jesus) he cannot see the kingdom . That's why he told them, seek ye first the kingdom or strive to enter ye the gate which is the point of crucifixion at Jerusalem. So, to answer your question, Born again simply means to follow Jesus as at the time Jesus was yet to be crucified. (also known as the days of john the Baptist) And not all the disciples following Jesus calling him lord lord ended up seeing the kingdom at Jerusalem Matt. 7:21. Almost all of the 5000 of them ran away when Jesus was betrayed and captured. Hence, the prophecy few people will enter the kingdom came to pass All I'm saying is, it is only when you put everything in consideration that's the only way you will understand that born again means disciples following Jesus those times, not now again. The following seized to exist the moment Jesus was crucified which was the aim . Born again ends there. Currently, there is nothing like born again |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Nobody: 8:59pm On May 11, 2018 |
UbiPetrus:why didn't you paste the full verse? 1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us [b](not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) [/b]by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: It is self explanatory 1 Like |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Nobody: 9:19pm On May 11, 2018 |
These are the last days, men are turning to teachings of demons instead of biblically sound teachings. If you deny the doctrine that a man must be born again you deny Christ and you shall die in your sin except you repent. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. If you are born once you will die twice but if you are born twice you will die once! 1 Like |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Nobody: 9:51pm On May 11, 2018 |
paxonel: U did research but I received mine by revelation n meditation on the word of God and not by research. Gal 1:11-12 11.But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. [12] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Note that there was already a written prophecy about the events that will happen before the crucifixion of Jesus. Nicodemus was a Pharisee .. I know all these. So, when[b] Jesus quoted the script[/b] to him by saying Where was it written that Jesus quoted from? Stop adding to the word of God bro. Jesus directly said those words to Nicodemus to teach him about the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God was preached when John came (Luke 16:16) It wasn't written anywhere until John the Baptist came. But Jesus told him, you must be born of water and of spirit. He was still confused When John baptised the people with the baptism of water/repentance, he preached Christ that is to come and baptise them of the spirit n fire. He told them to believe in him because Christ was greater than he is.. Being born of God is part of it all, you can't be born again without following Jesus. But not everyone who follows Jesus that is born again. . These crowd of disciples following Jesus are the born again according to the parable(so is every man that is born again. John 3:9 ) It's not everyone that follows him and calls him Lord that will enter the kingdom or see it but he that does the will of God in heaven . (Matthew 7:21) The kingdom of God is in a man,its within(luke17:21) and it's not physical. When a man is born of God, the spirit, he is quickened by the spirit to keep God's word because your natural strength will fail you except by the spirit of God. Jesus said in john14:23 "if you love me, you will keep my words and I and the father will make our abode in/with you " . That is what the kingdom of God is-God abode in man/king(God) in the domain(man). So, to answer your question, Born again simply means to follow Jesus as at the time Jesus was yet to be crucified. (also known as the days of john the Baptist) You're not getting it now. It's an error @the emboldened... [b]And not all the disciples following Jesus calling him lord lord ended up seeing the kingdom at Jerusalem [/b]Matt. 7:21. I thought u said to become born again means to follow Christ which I agree with to an extent and let's assume U're right . But Jesus said except a man be born again he cannot enter the kingdom. Why is it that all those 5000 that followed him didn't enter All I'm saying is, it is only when you put everything in the aim . I'm talking to u from experience. I became born again to experience the supernatural flow in my life. When i wasnt one I couldn't move in the things of God. Nicodemus couldn't decipher the mystery behind the great miracles Jesus did but all he knew was that no man could do great miracles like that except God was with him. So Jesus said except a man is born again; born by the water n spirit he cannot see or enter the kingdom of God. king-dom , where God resides. Jesus said "I and the father are one(mathew10:30), I'm in the father and the father is in me(john14:10) " . Have you thought why and the result of us being united with Christ in the spirit to become one(1corinth 6:16-17) ? Do u know what that means? This is God residing in a man, the Holy spirit baptism... This means power. You're the type that God gave hands and mouth to raise the dead, heal the sick and worship him but you are using it to bless Chicken n chips! 1 Like |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by UbiPetrus: 10:30pm On May 11, 2018 |
solite3:NOW HERE IS THE FULL VERSE AND MORE 1 Peter 3:19-21 New International Version (NIV) 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ... It is self explanatory like you said and still contradicts your submission of "baptism cannot save you." |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Nobody: 12:44am On May 12, 2018 |
UbiPetrus:peter is not talking of water baptism itself but what it stands for.peter explained what he meant by baptism which is a pledge to clear conscience towards God and not the washing of dirt. Meaning anyone who has the answer of a clear conscience towards God is the real definition of baptism. This is a smack on your face because you said anyone who is baptised by water is born again but the apostle disagree with you. It is not the act of getting baptize that saves but an appeal to good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Water baptism cannot save you 1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Nobody: 1:53am On May 12, 2018 |
Ubongdemaga: Being born again is not the definition people or some religion give to it. From John 3:3-6 where Jesus brought the matter to the fore, it is glaring that without water baptism, the born again process isn't complete. Merely declaring that you accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior, doesn't make you a born again. 1 Like |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Nobody: 2:03am On May 12, 2018 |
solite3: What scriptural reason do you have for your opinion? |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by Nobody: 2:07am On May 12, 2018 |
paxonel: How do you arrive at all that you said above? Initiation in Judaism, thru water immersion? Are you also saying that you can be born again without water baptism? |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by paxonel(m): 6:37am On May 12, 2018 |
JMAN05:ok, let's assume born again is a christianity thing. To answer your question, no! You have to be baptized into christianity first(very important) before you can be talking about born again or whatever And I used the word initiation there because, when people were baptized into a religion it was a formal ceremony of welcoming them into that religion. New born babies were also baptized too . Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what(religion) then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Meaning, there was a baptism to welcome people into the religion of John the Baptist. John the Baptist was not a christian, he founded a religion that was intermediate between Judaism and christianity paving the way for many Jews to come to Christ. He was a link to the way Jesus says I'm the way. Then, there is baptism unto Christ if you read further in act 19, which was totally different from baptism unto John the Baptist. It is baptism unto christianity which was a new religion as at that time, conducted by the early apostles and today christians. |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by UbiPetrus: 6:56am On May 12, 2018 |
solite3:Ridiculously twisting the Scriptures does you no good. Peter was comparing the water of Noah's time with the waters of baptism and he says baptism now saves you and you are here preaching your ideas. Acts 2:38: Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Mark 16:16: Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Why will Christ give a command to baptise believers if it is insignificant and just symbolic like you've been struggling to portray it? |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by UbiPetrus: 6:57am On May 12, 2018 |
JMAN05:I agree with you, Sir. |
Re: Born-again And Baptism by paxonel(m): 8:01am On May 12, 2018 |
Jacksonville:mediation or research, they are still the same thing. But revelation is limited, reading and understanding is far more better. God will never reveal everything to anyone mysteriously so anyone waiting for mysterious revelation will only die in ignorance. Everything we ever needed are written in the scripture only that we fail to read to our own understanding allowing laid down doctrines to dominate us. God bless you so much for this truth, you see what I'm talking about? it is not all the 5000 that didn't enter the kingdom although all of them ran away initially, but few of them who still held their belief inspite that great tribulation and all that happened gathered again after the resurrection of Jesus. These are the ones that saw Jesus after the resurrection. They were the ones who made it sucessufully to the kingdom of God after that great tribulation and their number was later increased to 120 people in act 1:15. Today, this number has been increased to what we know as billions of uncountable christians worldwide thereby fulfilling the promise God gave to Abraham. Your decendants shall be numerous like the stars in the sky and the sands in the shores of rivers. So, born again sieze to exist the very day Christ was cruciified because it has achieved the purpose. Except a man be born again he cannot enter the kingdom simply entails that Born again as at that time was the only way to the kingdom(John the Baptist was the only way to Christ because he first preached Christ or the kingdom), but by the preciding event that happened before the kingdom was established, not every born again who called Jesus lord lord ended up entering the kingdom. Even John the Baptist who founded the born again movement was killed, he never saw the kingdom. Hence, the least person in the kingdom is greater than him. Judas iscariot too was born again, he followed Christ like every other disciples, but he lost it at the very point of Jesus crucifixion his case was the most sympathetic |
You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... / Gracious David West:Link Between Cultism,Satanism,And Ritual Killings (Graphic P / To All The Lukeworms On Nairaland
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 133 |