Butterflyleo:


Absolutely, fantastically, AMAZINGLY RIGHT!

Despite claiming to be an agnostic and an "I don't know" merchant he still pulls the atheism of the gaps delusion.

Its why atheism will accept almost no evidence for God. Ill open a thread on this soon. Thanks bro.

winner01:
If mysterious activity defies nature right now in your presence, I'm sure you'll say " well science has not found this out but it will", is that not atheism of the gaps?
I've heard several atheists use this line and I'll open a thread on it soon.

If a mysterious activity happens in my presence I'd say I have no idea how it happened but we should scrutinise it and try to understand how it happened. that's sincerity

But if its a religious person he quickly concludes his flavour of imaginary friend is responsible for it. this sounds dubious and history has never favoured this line reasoning cuz so many things that were assumed to "Defy Nature" and explanations in the past have been unraveled and now known so forgive me for siding with scientific history that's been found to be reliable rather than plugging whatever I don't understand with Jewish mythology like you're doing.

Whenever science cant answer something, religion jumps on the band wagon and says "aha" god is behind it! Then science finds that answer and religion is pushed back to find another mystery science can't answer to go "aha" again.

winner01:
A.Y, a comedian in Nigeria, has created a living for himself and his family using spoken words.

I can also go to Aso rock with a few thugs, and chant "death to Buhari", this will cause a scene.

Are you with me?

Wakanda dishonesty is this?

dalaman:


What caused or created human beings? How can we know that your answer is objectively true and not based on lies or empty assumptions?

Evidentially, humans "appeared" on earth, fully formed and this is why we do not see innumerable transitional forms of evolving humans as postulated by Darwin.

In the 19th century, Charles Darwin himself struggled with the the fact that the fossil record failed to support his conclusions and he wrote the following
“Why,” he asked, “if species have descended from other species by fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why do we not find them imbedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?”
“The number of intermediate varieties, which have formerly existed, [must] be truly enormous,” he wrote. “Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged against the theory”



To buttresses the fact that humans appeared fully formed, the late Harvard University paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould is perhaps today’s best-known popular writer on evolution. An ardent evolutionist, he collaborated with Professor Eldredge in proposing alternatives to the traditional view of Darwinism. Like Eldredge, he recognized that the fossil record fundamentally conflicted with Darwin’s idea of gradualism.
“The history of most fossil species,” he wrote, “includes two features particularly inconsistent with gradualism [gradual evolution from one species to another]:
“1. Stasis. Most species exhibit no directional [evolutionary] change during their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record looking pretty much the same as when they disappear; morphological [anatomical or structural] change is usually limited and directionless.
“2. Sudden appearance. In any local area, a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors: it appears all at once and ‘fully formed’”



If you have evidence of innumerable transitional fossils of humans, take the word "innumerable" seriously, not one LUCY, or two Homo habilis, or three pieces of extinct Australopithecus africanus, constructed by otherwise scientists, in furthering their cause.
Direct me to the innumerable transitional fossils. Of you can't, it means you agree that humans appeared once and fully formed. And this means you are proposing that a super-complex machine like the human is capable of appearing from thin air.

hopefulLandlord:


Do that and let's see

Words create your reality whether you believe it or not. Reality is made up of your language being projected and those words create reality. This is all by willful choice of course, and can change along with the change of your will. You could say WORDS ARE LIVING THINGS BECAUSE WORDS CREATE!

Psychologists know this and you would often hear a psychologist saying that our subconscious mind interprets what it hears quite literally. The words that come out of our mouth therefore create the reality we dwell in.

Unconsciously a lot of people sabotage their success simply by using language that undermines their opinions and rather amplifies their problems and eats away at their confidence.

The words that come out of your mouth create the reality you dwell in for real and whatever direction your words lead, your mind, body and environment will follow. If you use positive language about yourself and your ability to learn new skills, achieve greater goals and rise above difficulties, then that’s what will show up externally.
Likewise, if you're continually saying things that affirm incompetence, hopelessness, anxiety or pessimism, then that will also shape your reality. It may sound crazy, but over time your world will metamorphosise to mirror your words. This is the trick behind brainwashing and also the sad reality about the hopelessness of atheism and why a lot of them are depressed and suicidal. Its simply because their reality is viewed as hopeless (which by the way is the truth) so the more they dwell in that reality and declare that reality in words, the more their world morphs into that reality.

hopefulLandlord:

If a mysterious activity happens in my presence I'd say I have no idea how it happened but we should scrutinise it and try to understand how it happened. that's sincerity

But if its a religious person he quickly concludes his flavour of imaginary friend is responsible for it. this sounds dubious and history has never favoured this line reasoning cuz so many things that were assumed to "Defy Nature" and explanations in the past have been unraveled and now known so forgive me for siding with scientific history that's been found to be reliable rather than plugging whatever I don't understand with Jewish mythology like you're doing.

Whenever science cant answer something, religion jumps on the band wagon and says "aha" god is behind it! Then science finds that answer and religion is pushed back to find another mystery science can't answer to go "aha" again.

1. You have no right to tell me what science can do and what it can't.
2. This is a good reason why nothing will serve as evidence of the supernatural for the atheist.

hopefulLandlord:


Wakanda dishonesty is this?

Dishonesty?

So I didn't prove that mere words can create a scene or a living?

Nawa ...

winner01:

1. You have no right to tell me what science can do and what it can't.

I have the right to tell you anything I damn please and you have the right to do the same to me. its up to the listener to rebutt/ignore/accept what the other says

2. This is a good reason why nothing will serve as evidence of the supernatural for the atheist.

Good reason why your evidence for the supernatural are borne out of ignorance (argumentum as ignorantiam) and attempt at plugging in Jewish mythology to address the ignorance

So many "Supernatural" claims of the past have been found out today and moved away from the supernatural so forgive me for siding with history once again rather than accepting Jewish mythology as the explanations

winner01:
Dishonesty?
So I didn't prove that mere words can create a scene or a living?
Nawa ...

The dishonesty is the uselessness of those in this conversation

Butterflyleo:


Words create your reality whether you believe it or not. Reality is made up of your language being projected and those words create reality. This is all by willful choice of course, and can change along with the change of your will. You could say WORDS ARE LIVING THINGS BECAUSE WORDS CREATE!

Psychologists know this and you would often hear a psychologist saying that our subconscious mind interprets what it hears quite literally. The words that come out of our mouth therefore create the reality we dwell in.

Unconsciously a lot of people sabotage their success simply by using language that undermines their opinions and rather amplifies their problems and eats away at their confidence.

The words that come out of your mouth create the reality you dwell in for real and whatever direction your words lead, your mind, body and environment will follow. If you use positive language about yourself and your ability to learn new skills, achieve greater goals and rise above difficulties, then that’s what will show up externally.
Likewise, if you're continually saying things that affirm incompetence, hopelessness, anxiety or pessimism, then that will also shape your reality. It may sound crazy, but over time your world will metamorphosise to mirror your words. This is the trick behind brainwashing and also the sad reality about the hopelessness of atheism and why a lot of them are depressed and suicidal. Its simply because their reality is viewed as hopeless (which by the way is the truth) so the more they dwell in that reality and declare that reality in words, the more their world morphs into that reality.

This is highly intelligent, I hope they can understand.

Butterflyleo:


Absolutely, fantastically, AMAZINGLY RIGHT!

Despite claiming to be an agnostic and an "I don't know" merchant he still pulls the atheism of the gaps delusion.

do you know why people give up on christianity? It is because the evidence failed to support the purported claims and they actually care if what they believe is factually true or not.

hopefulLandlord:
I have the right to tell you anything I damn please and you have the right to do the same to me. its up to the listener to rebutt/ignore/accept what the other says

Good reason why your evidence for the supernatural are borne out of ignorance (argumentum as ignorantiam) and attempt at plugging in Jewish mythology to address the ignorance

So many "Supernatural" claims of the past have been found out today and moved away from the supernatural so forgive me for siding with history once again rather than accepting Jewish mythology as the explanations

If you truly side with history, tell me the history of humans, based on evidence..

RuthlessLeader:


do you know why people give up on christianity? It is because the evidence failed to support the purported claims and I actually care if what I believe is factually true or not.

lol, people have been giving up on Christianity, yet Christianity is still more than 1/3 of the total worlds population while atheism keeps regressing

hopefulLandlord:


The dishonesty is the uselessness of those in this conversation

smh

winner01:
If you truly side with history, tell me the history of humans, based on evidence..

History of humans would show the first human was made from a bone? or the first man from dust?

Don't change the topic, stay on it! tell us how your imaginary friend created ocean from spoken words

RuthlessLeader:


do you know why people give up on christianity? It is because the evidence failed to support the purported claims and they actually care if what they believe is factually true or not.

Do you know why people give up on atheism? Its because they got tires or the false evidence they claimed to have when faced with true reality which did not support the false evidence they often threw around and this awareness further deepened their already depressed state and forced them to seek for help on how to come out of this depression.

SPIRITUAL evidence does not subscribe to EMPIRICAL science. So whatever you are talking about regarding evidence when referring to spiritual things implodes automatically.

winner01:
If you truly side with history, tell me the history of humans, based on evidence..

Lmao what a question. Expect one of the following

1) red herring

2) cop out

3) strawman.



Modified

His response

History of humans would show the first human was made from a bone? or the first man from dust?

I guess I was right after all

winner01:
lol, people have been giving up on Christianity, yet Christianity is still more than 1/3 of the total worlds population while atheism keeps regressing

Argumentum ad populum. The fact that 2.1 billion people believe that God sacrificed God to God to save God’s creations from God does not in any way mean that they are correct and if they were, we would expect to see this in our observation of daily life now wouldn`t we?

Butterflyleo:


Do you know why people give up on atheism? Its because they got tires or the false evidence they claimed to have when faced with true reality which did not support the false evidence they often threw around and this awareness further deepened their already depressed state and forced them to seek for help on how to come out of this depression.

SPIRITUAL evidence does not subscribe to EMPIRICAL science. So whatever you are talking about regarding evidence when referring to spiritual things implodes automatically.

If a god made contact with humans, it would be so obvious and universal that there would be only one religion. Since this has not happened, it is reasonably certain that no god has made contact with humans, and furthermore, it is highly probable that he/she/it either does not exist or else does not know that we exist.

hopefulLandlord:


History of humans would show the first human was made from a bone? or the first man from dust?

Don't change the topic, stay on it! tell us how your imaginary friend created ocean from spoken words

What is the evidential history of humans, shouldn't this be a very easy question for you?

RuthlessLeader:

Argumentum ad populum. The fact that 2.1 billion people believe that God sacrificed God to God to save God’s creations from God does not in any way mean that they are correct and if they were, we would expect to see this in our observation of daily life now wouldn`t we?

How are we able to observe the correctness of atheism in the daily lives of atheists?


You started the population argument by saying people are turning away from Christianity, I simply gave you the facts. I'm well aware the the validity of Christianity must be argued on other grounds.

winner01:
What is the evidential history of humans, shouldn't this be a very easy question for you?

It is but arguing with a Christian is like playing chess with a pigeon. You could be the greatest player in the world, but the pigeon will still knock over all the pieces, sh/t on the board, and strut around triumphantly. No matter the evidence that is brought up, you will cling to your God because you are afraid of exercising your brain and going to hell for it.

RuthlessLeader:

It is but arguing with a Christian is like playing chess with a pigeon. You could be the greatest player in the world, but the pigeon will still knock over all the pieces, sh/t on the board, and strut around triumphantly. No matter the evidence that is brought up, you will cling to your God because you are afraid of exercising your brain and going to hell for it.

I remember this quote from one of the 4-horsemen of atheism, I can't remember whose is it exactly.

Be a freethinker for once.

RuthlessLeader:

If a god made contact with humans, it would be so obvious and universal that there would be only one religion. Since this has not happened, it is reasonably certain that no god has made contact with humans, and furthermore, it is highly probable that he/she/it either does not exist or else does not know that we exist.

If God did not make contact with humans then humans wouldn't be UNIVERSALLY talking about God regardless of the many variants.

Did they have a general universal consensus at a meeting somewhere where this decision was taken?

There is no need for ONE RELIGION because God is not Religious. Jesus was not religious. So if you are using religion or the idea that there should be one religion to justify the existence of God then you are sadly mistaken.

I have said this repeatedly on this forum that Christianity is not a religion but a way of life. What we have as gathering places is not a church but a building where the church (body of believers) gather. (I hope you can understand something this simple).

Your logic is rather childish.

RuthlessLeader:

It is but arguing with a Christian is like playing chess with a pigeon. You could be the greatest player in the world, but the pigeon will still knock over all the pieces, sh/t on the board, and strut around triumphantly. No matter the evidence that is brought up, you will cling to your God because you are afraid of exercising your brain and going to hell for it.

Winner01 I think this guy is a fresh hatchling going by his logical reasoning . is he worth attention?

winner01:
What is the evidential history of humans, shouldn't this be a very easy question for you?

mbombo vomited the first 2 humans and they've been reproducing ever since

although an alternate one says FSM created 2 midgits who he called humans

winner01:
How are we able to observe the correctness of atheism in the daily lives of atheists?


You started the population argument by saying people are turning away from Christianity, I simply gave you the facts. I'm well aware the the validity of Christianity must be argued on other grounds.

Atheism: It isn’t a religion, it’s a relationship with reality. Atheists aren`t atheists because of some benefit, we are who we are because we finally realise that we don’t want to be good people so we can live with God after we die. We want to be good people so we can live with ourselves while we are alive.

Now turning your question on its head How are we able to observe the correctness of christianity in the daily lives of christians? is it in the ineffectiveness failure of prayer? is it in the fact that today’s Christianity is not the original Christianity. It was altered and rewritten starting with Constantine, so that it can serve as a political force. It worked great during the Middle Ages to control society and send masses off to war. Catholicism was not a benevolent organization. The real Jesus (not real name) was an obscure person (no miracles) who sought enlightenment and esoteric knowledge, like Buddha, and had a small group of followers. Miracles were inserted in the Bible to communicate with a child-like, illiterate, audience. The Romans, Jews, and Greeks were polytheistic, as the Hindus. Also, Catholicism got it’s teachings from ancient Egypt, (Sun God), Babylon, astrology, paganism, (Christmas tree, mistletoe, Easter, Winter Solstice) Mithraism, and other pre-Christian beliefs and practices.

Butterflyleo:


----------- Butterflyleo 2018 ©

Cc vaxx you are free to borrow the above quote whenever you encounter a debate on logic.

This is the nitty gritty of every atheist and theist argument and every atheist ----> theist and theist ------> atheist conversion.

this is indeed beautiful.

winner01:
I remember this quote from one of the 4-horsemen of atheism, I can't remember whose is it exactly.

Be a freethinker for once.

lol. like how you quote bible verses for us right?

Butterflyleo:


If God did not make contact with humans then humans wouldn't be UNIVERSALLY talking about God regardless of the many variants.

Did they have a general universal consensus at a meeting somewhere where this decision was taken?

There is no need for ONE RELIGION because God is not Religious. Jesus was not religious. So if you are using religion or the idea that there should be one religion to justify the existence of God then you are sadly mistaken.

I have said this repeatedly on this forum that Christianity is not a religion but a way of life. What we have as gathering places is not a church but a building where the church (body of believers) gather. (I hope you can understand something this simple).

Your logic is rather childish.

Fail. Jesus was a Jew and supported the Jewish laws and traditions, though he might have softened some of the more stringent rules. Nevertheless, if you do not observe the Halakha, the collective body of Jewish religious laws, you cannot consider yourself to be a follower of Jesus. If you do not attend synagogue, you cannot be a follower of Jesus. If you do not observe the Sabbath, from Friday evening to Saturday evening, you cannot be a follower of Jesus. If you do not observe the requirement of circumcision, you cannot be a follower of Jesus. If you do not observe the kosher dietary rules, you cannot be a follower of Jesus.

To summarize, you can consider yourself to be a Christian, but you are not a follower of Jesus. If Jesus could observe your life, he would not consider you to be his disciple. You are not a follower of the real Jesus. Instead, you are a follower of the fictional Jesus created by Paul, the Gospel authors, the Emperor Constantine, and all the popes and religious leaders over the past 20 centuries.

In Matthew 19:16-21, Jesus is asked by a man what he must do to attain eternal life. His answer does not comply with the Christian concept of atonement- that the only way to heaven is to accept the blood sacrifice of Jesus on the cross:

And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” Then he said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

If Jesus believed the same as modern Christianity, his answer would have been:

Believe thou with all thy heart that I have come to cleanse the multitudes of their sins with my blood. He that believeth in my atonement shall have eternal life. He that believeth not shall be damned for eternity.

There is no stronger evidence that Jesus was not a Christian by today’s standards. The answer he gave to the man is not the answer that would be given by any conventional Christian today. It is obvious that the religion of Jesus is not the religion of Christianity, but rather Christianity is the religion of Paul.

Whether Jesus ever had this exchange or not, it is evident that what he is alleged to have said was the understanding of the author of Matthew at the time (around 75 AD) and was most likely the most accurate description of the core beliefs of the Jesus followers of that time.

RuthlessLeader:

Atheism: It isn’t a religion, it’s a relationship with reality.

Christianity isn't a religion but a relationship with their own reality (same shoe different designer so comfort levels differ)

Atheists aren`t atheists because of some benefit, we are who we are because we finally realise that we don’t want to be good people so we can live with God after we die. We want to be good people so we can live with ourselves while we are alive.

Christians Aren't Christians because they want to be good people so can live with themselves while alive. They want to be good people to others AT THE EXPENSE of themselves while alive, not based on the motivation of heaven but based on the TRANSFORMATION of their once selfish and sinful nature to the one that has been imputed on them by the acceptance of death and ressurection of Jesus.

If you wish to die and become maggot food its your cup of tea. That in itself speaks of hopelessness for even the bible said and I quote

1st Corinthians 15:19

If in this life only we have hope, we are of all men most miserable