OneSentence:
that's the point you people miss. Christianity isn't based on proof or physical evidence. if you can understand this you'd stop wasting time challenging people to prove to you why they believe what they believe. you are not asking so that you can be saved, you are asking so that those who have been saved will question their own faith. you'd succeed easily with people who have only had a shallow experience with christianity. but when a man has been able to see this world beyond just 5 senses then you'd understand that it is futile trying to make a man be like you in reasoning.

Originakalokalo:
Let me speak for myself;


I have experienced JESUS.

I have prayed and got healing in his name.

I have prayed and others got healing in his name.

I have seen JESUS.


I believe in the scriptures. I am convinced through my experiences that:


He is the son of God, the Lamb of God.


It's not about what I read alone.



Repent and be converted.

LordStranac:
Dont say cause the bible say...we all know it was written by them and went through tons of amendments by corrupts people..




I was discussing the reliability of the Bible with a Christian the other day and heard that old chestnut:

Nearly all of the disciples went to their death, unwilling to recant their beliefs.
It really sounds like a compelling point. Although loads of people die for their belief in made-up stories even today, surely it’s very rare indeed that anyone would willingly die for a story that they had made up themselves. So the testimony of the first disciples, most of whom died for their beliefs, is powerful evidence that these beliefs must have been founded in reality.

I remember making these kinds of arguments myself when I was a Christian. And then one day I was asked an important question. “How do you know?” I realised I had just been repeating reports I had heard from Christian apologists. But no matter, I thought; I’ll just dig up the sources and share them with the doubters. Well, I did quite a bit of searching online and in my apologetics books, and what I found was a bit of a shock. Go on and try it yourself! Where is the evidence to support the claim that the disciples went to their deaths boldly proclaiming the gospel? If there was evidence, the apologists would be trumpeting it at every possible opportunity. But they don’t.

The reports I had heard (and repeated myself) conjured up images of the disciples being captured by the Romans, being told they could live and be set free if only they would admit they had made up the gospel message, but bravely chosing death because they knew it was all true. But where is the evidence for this? Are we really to expect that Nero would gently untie the recanting believer, pat him on the back, and say “There you go, doesn’t that feel better now?”

This claim is made in all kinds of places. Even William Lane Craig brought it up in his debate with Bart Ehrman when he said the following:

The original disciples suddenly came to believe so strongly that God had raised Jesus from the dead that they were willing to die for the truth of that belief.
Ehrman’s response sums the situation up very well:

I hear that claim a lot, but having read every Christian source from the first five hundred years of Christianity, I’d like him to tell us what the piece of evidence is that the disciples died for their belief in the resurrection.
In my opinion, the Ehrman vs Craig exchange is one of the best places to hear both sides of the debate over the historicity of the resurrection. Here’s the debate transcript, and I’ve linked to the video at the end of this post. (I’ve posted about this debate before; see my post Craig’s Calamitous Cock-Up, where I link to my video of the same name in which I expose the mathematical blunders Craig makes when he tries to invoke Bayes’ Theorem. I’m sure I’ll have more to say about the debate in the future.)

If you want to use this line of apologetics, then please provide some evidence to back up your claim. By doing so, you will be doing a huge favour to the apologetic community which, so far, has not been able to come up with any adequate evidence. If you do not provide any evidence, but still want to insist on using this tactic, then you are just perpetuating unsubstantiated stories, and are guilty of using dishonest tactics. If you need to lie or stretch the truth in order to argue for your position, then what does it say about your position?

OneSentence:
that's the point you people miss. Christianity isn't based on proof or physical evidence. if you can understand this you'd stop wasting time challenging people to prove to you why they believe what they believe. you are not asking so that you can be saved, you are asking so that those who have been saved will question their own faith. you'd succeed easily with people who have only had a shallow experience with christianity. but when a man has been able to see this world beyond just 5 senses then you'd understand that it is futile trying to make a man be like you in reasoning.

odysey:


Have you ever wondered why people create such threads?
they dont want to learn but to poke "holes" in something they may never understand.
I commend those of you who try to defend what you know and believe still its not necessary.
Leave them to their ideologies, even when atheists turned believers speak they don't listen.
peace

spartan117:
@lordstranac This is the evidence:

AMP:Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses]. Hebrews 11:1

OneSentence:
that's the point you people miss. Christianity isn't based on proof or physical evidence.

LordStranac:
thanks but who wrote hebrew?

spartan117:

We live in a 3 dimension world which we access through our 5 senses. However there is a 4th dimension, it's called the realm of faith it is a higher dimension.

Those who operate from this dimension can heal the sick, raise the dead, call things that are not as though they be and they will appear.

Unfortunately you don't have access to this dimension in your current state because you are blind to it:
AMP:The Spirit of Truth, Whom the world cannot receive (welcome, take to its heart), because it does not see Him or know and recognize Him. But you know and recognize Him, for He lives with you [constantly] and will be in you. John 14:17

So you simply lack the ability or capacity to understand the mysteries of the scriptures, even if i spend 10 years explaining to you you simply won't understand. Why? Because it's beyond your ability it transcends the sensual realm in which you operate in and are limited to.

But Fortunately you too can receive this spirit of truth by accepting jesus. No soul has ever been won to the kingdom of God by eloquence of speech, it's the spirit of God that convicts the heart. So I pray that he visits you tonight!

AMP:And it shall be that whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord [invoking, adoring, and worshiping the Lord—Christ] shall be saved. Acts 2:21

LordStranac:
who wrote hebrew??

spartan117:

Read my statement again and you will understand that the author of the book Hebrews cannot be seen by you, neither can you know him.

LordStranac:
so na i cant see who wrote it!wow,so why did he write it..i thought he doesnt disturb free will

spartan117:

Looks like we're not getting anywhere
Okay let me try to condescend a little and explain things from the sensual perspective as much as I can. The book of Hebrews was written by a man with inspiration from the spirit of God in other words the spirit of God inspired a man to write the book.

LordStranac:
so what is your prove?

You denied muslim koran been Gods world,so whats your proff to back it up?

spartan117:

Okay I'm done condescending! Scriptures can never be understood from the sensual realm you have to move up to the 4th dimension i.e the realm of faith before you can understand.
Like I said in my 1st comment here is my evidence :

KJV:Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

LordStranac:
i believe it is fake and written by mortal for their greed and control of the masses..


prove i am wrong

spartan117:

Like I said no one has been won over to the kingdom of God by eloquence of speech.
It's the Holy Spirit that convicts the heart of men.

I pray for you that he touches you today and when he speaks to you, you will know and will recognize who is talking to you so before then I want you to ponder on this scripture:

Then while it is [still] called Today, if you would hear His voice and when you hear it, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion [in the desert, when the people provoked and irritated and embittered God against them].
Hebrews 3:15

LordStranac:
okay i want to ask just one question..




imagine your parents were killed by some evil guy,,he repented and go to heaven...

you die and went to heaven too,but saw u parents in hell and criminals in heaven simply they dont believ but leave a good life..


how will you feel?

spartan117:

There is another dimension that is higher than faith it's the 5th dimension, the realm of love. When you operate from this dimension you see things from the eyes of God and the same love that made jesus christ die for the worst sinner now operates in you.

But God shows and clearly proves His [own] love for us by the fact that while we were still sinners, Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One) died for us. Romans 5:8

LordStranac:
add 7 dimensions join na..lol

so is jesus god or son of god,i dont get

spartan117:

We live in a 3 dimension world which we access through our 5 senses. However there is a 4th dimension, it's called the realm of faith it is a higher dimension.

Those who operate from this dimension can heal the sick, raise the dead, call things that are not as though they be and they will appear.

Unfortunately you don't have access to this dimension in your current state because you are blind to it:
AMP:The Spirit of Truth, Whom the world cannot receive (welcome, take to its heart), because it does not see Him or know and recognize Him. But you know and recognize Him, for He lives with you [constantly] and will be in you. John 14:17

So you simply lack the ability or capacity to understand the mysteries of the scriptures, even if i spend 10 years explaining to you you simply won't understand. Why? Because it's beyond your ability it transcends the sensual realm in which you operate in and are limited to.

But Fortunately you too can receive this spirit of truth by accepting jesus. No soul has ever been won to the kingdom of God by eloquence of speech, it's the spirit of God that convicts the heart. So I pray that he visits you tonight!

AMP:And it shall be that whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord [invoking, adoring, and worshiping the Lord—Christ] shall be saved. Acts 2:21