OgaInnocent:
.

The salary here is d highest pay for most senior consultants.. For d same level for Medical laboratory Scientists in UK is between £88k to £99k.
The article is misleading, and u can make enquiries not just circulating doctored transmissible salaries abroad.

mansamusa08:


Then go and carry out the doctor's order. I mean to do some massage for stroke patient.
Do not try to outshine your master.

This one is a dumbass!

mansamusa08:


Why wasting your brain to compare commissioned officer with non commissioned officer?
They were never trained to be the same.

Dumbass!!!

Amarabae:


You don't understand my point,
We are in Nigeria where there is no strict regulation,
I was talking about simple malaria and typhoid with NO COMPLICATIONS.
I wrote it up there.
Are you telling me that Many Nigerians who treated themselves of malaria and typhoid went to a hospital and met a doctor?
They only go if after buying drugs from pharmacy and it didn't go.
Many Nigerians when sick love to patronize private medical laboratory and then head to a pharmacy with the test results,
They find it cheaper.
And it is working well for MANY!
Unless the issue is a complicated one.
That's my point

Now I get you, but a patient may not know when a typhoid is getting complicated(so hospital should still be the first point of call) , there have been many cases of Typhoid causing intestinal perforations and leading to death, also there have been many cases of some ppl who had cancer presenting with fever and body weakness and instead of going to the hospital, they were busy using antimalaria and antibiotics based on the so called lab results diagnosing them of malaria and typhoid.
We should learn to do the right thing if we want to move forward in this country!

Amarabae:


You don't understand my point,
We are in Nigeria where there is no strict regulation,
I was talking about simple malaria and typhoid with NO COMPLICATIONS.
I wrote it up there.
Are you telling me that Many Nigerians who treated themselves of malaria and typhoid went to a hospital and met a doctor?
They only go if after buying drugs from pharmacy and it didn't go.
Many Nigerians when sick love to patronize private medical laboratory and then head to a pharmacy with the test results,
They find it cheaper.
Pharmacists are no novice when it comes to health issues, they are treating people and prescribing in their pharmacy,


And it is working well for some people.

Pharmacists know their boundary, that's why they always say that after taking a drug, if symptoms persist after 3days,see your doctor.


That's my point

...& as knowledgeable as u exude, you think that's the right thing to do? when complications set in thats when they will think of hospital. well, it's obvious u guys know the right thing but chose to twist facts just to score points. pls learn to call a spade a spade.

Freddonance:


Unfortunately, that's what they are taught in pharmacy school. They are taught to believe that doctors do not know much about drug

A pharmacist knows about drugs more than a doctor.
You want to argue that.
I always see pharmacy from the industrial angle than clinical

Jman06:
I cited an example and you are now trying to twist my points into an unnecessary argument. I know there are different types of seizures and i also know the different classes of drugs used in their management.
Like i stated before, there are many different types of drugs in use today and they all have their interactions. The pharmacists know these interactions better!
The problem with Nigerian physicians is that they think they know it all and with such mindset they kill many Nigerians. That's my concern!

I understand u are a student. you soon will leave the classroom to face what is obtainable in practice. Then you will choose to adhere to some of the things you've bin told in sch or to unlearn them

Amarabae:

A pharmacist knows about drugs more than a doctor.
You want to argue that.
I always see pharmacy from the industrial angle than clinical

We are not talking about such knowledge as structure of drug, functional group of a particular component of a drug.
we are interested in the therapeutic indications/applications of these drugs. We are talking about the pathological basis of disease & how those drugs can modify pathology. Doctors have much knowledge in this area.

Freddonance:


...& as knowledgeable as u exude, you think that's the right thing to do? when complications set in thats when they will think of hospital. well, it's obvious u guys know the right thing but chose to twist facts just to score points. pls learn to call a spade a spade.

A good pharmacist I think knows his or her boundary and can't handle all cases.
We are in Nigeria where there are no regulations,
BTW some chemists now are being operated by an Auxiliary nurse trained shallowly by a Doctor in a private hospital,
Go there and see them treating people,
Some of them do abortions,
Every professions in the health sector have a share of blame in the mess the health sector is in now.
.
.
And finally, I pray for more pharmaceutical industrialisation so that many pharmacists will focus on the industrial aspect and all these arm twisting will stop.

worlexy:
Your last paragraph sum it up that you're in training so I pardon your ignorance. First in the case of Erythromycin and carbamazepin that you sight. A 400L medical student knows the basic things about enzyme inducers and inhibitors and drug interactions so what gibberish are you talking about?
second you said a patient was given a drug in the hospital by physicians and the patient died, so you don't know about Adverse drug reaction, or anaphylaxis which can happen to anybody as a reaction to drug, don't people have natural atopy and allergic reaction like asthma that has killed them? Some people even have food allergy.
if Adverse drug reaction is not a possibility with some medication why did NAFDAC bring about pharmacovigilance form?

Like I said, I pardon your ignorance because you're still a student. Study hard, I wish you the best

I wouldn't want to go into details with you here, but just know that deaths from those adverse drug reactions could be avoided if you consult your pharmacist before giving those drugs. Thanks

It is only Nigerian physicians that claim more knowledge of drugs than druggists. Physicians in the west know better!!!

No need for further arguments here.

Freddonance:


We are not talking about such knowledge as structure of drug, functional group of a particular component of a drug.
we are interested in the therapeutic indications/applications of these drugs. We are talking about the pathological basis of disease & how those drugs can modify pathology. Doctors have much knowledge in this area.

I thought you are talking about the former (structure of drugs and all that)
But in your later, yes doctors are more knowledged than pharmacists due to their mode of training but that does not mean that a clinical pharmacists is a big novice in all you are talking about.
.
I use to frown at those calling for privatisation but now it looks like the right step.
Privatise the health sector and sanity will return.
Let government focus on monitoring and regulations

Jman06:
I wouldn't want to go into details with you here, but just know that deaths from those adverse drug reactions could be avoided if you consult your pharmacist before giving those drugs. Thanks

It is only Nigerian physicians that claim more knowledge of drugs than druggists. Physicians in the west know better!!!

No need for further arguments here.

Go and read about the commonest cause of death in the US where you claim there are pharmacists consultants

Amarabae:

I thought you are talking about the former (structure of drugs and all that)
But in your later, yes doctors are more knowledged than pharmacists due to their mode of training but that does not mean that a clinical pharmacists is a big novice in all you are talking about.
.
I use to frown at those calling for privatisation but now it looks like the right step.
Privatise the health sector and sanity will return.
Let government focus on monitoring and regulations

There u go again, will you compare a clinical pharmacologist with a clinical pharmacist?

We are not talking about such knowledge as structure of drug, functional group of a particular component of a drug.
we are interested in the therapeutic indications/applications of these drugs. We are talking about the pathological basis of disease & how those drugs can modify pathology. Doctors have much knowledge in this area.

I beg to differ to the above yes doctor's know more about pathological basis of disease, but drug indication and how drugs can modify pathology even the modification of concentration of drugs to get an effect, these are areas the doctors can not beat a well trained pharmacist.and be informed that the structures of drugs are important in their therapeutic indication, that why in a team a doctor ask the pharmacist to give him suggestion of drugs as he plans his therapy for a patient. We forget often that in all the patient is king

worlexy:
I have thought very well with my brain, it's you that should do the same. what will be the job of a pharmacist consultant in the hospital, is it to continue dispensing drugs like he has always done or does he want to start attending to patients and prescribing his own drugs? Will that not be the beginning of anarchy in the hospital? Your doctor writes drug A for you and your pharmacist changes your drug to B just because he feels he is a consultant too, will that not bring about problems. Go to most pharmaceutical shops outside the hospitals now you will see them attending to patients and prescribing drugs, is that how it is done in sane environment? And if you say they won't be changing doctor's prescriptions if they become consultants then why do they want to become consultants if the only job they do in the hospital is to dispense drugs? They should go and become consultants in pharmaceutical and research industry where they can use their knowledge to formulate new and effective drugs. Cos as it is today, pharmacy technician can effectively do the job of dispensing in the hospitals

can u just shut up! is it only dispensing they do? what about reviewing of those drugs before they are dispense,(pharmacy techinician will do that too) only God know the number of patient that would have die, if not for pharmacist that review this drugs and check for unfavourable reactions, of course u won't know, because they won't come to the media to blast it at your face. ignoramus. SMH!

DrAdonis:
This whole JOHESU thing is tiring. They are just fighting an unjust battle which is an eternally lost one. They just want to further destroy the healthcare in Nigeria.

Let me just explain one or two of what they are clamouring for to those that are not very medically inclined

1. Just because doctors are appointed consultants, they want same. Let us examine who a consultant is in the hospital setting and his responsibilities.

A consultant is a medical doctor who finished medical school, did housemanship and NYSC then writes an exam called primaries which is very tough and competitive with an average pass rate of 20% (not cause majority fail but they choose the top scores as pass) then work as a medical officer for varying years (some more than 10 years) before starting residency. The residency is the postgraduate studies to be come consultants in various specialities like neurosurgery, plastic surgery, Paediatrics etc.
The residency training is a rigorous one and the resident doctor works for no less than 68 hours in a week, runs the emergency, clinics, do ward rounds, teach medical students and even nursing and other students. The resident doctor also does case and seminar presentations carries out researches, writes academic papers and does a thesis (all these and more are necessary prerequisites to become a consultant). This residency takes 6 to 12 years depending on the specialty and it also incorporates very tough specialty exams.

Also take note that a doctor that does not do residency but has 20 years of work and surgical experience is not decorated a consultant.
So for a pharmacist, nurse or medical record personnel to just wake up and say because they have 10 years experience they should be decorated consultants is very laughable and shows myopia, greed and the entitlement mentality that defines JOHESU.

Also, and more importantly, the consultant is the person in charge of patient care and determines what tests, what drugs, what nursing care the patient needs and is indisputably the head of the team. He plays a vital central lead role and he determines who needs to see a pharmacist or a nurse or a lab technician. This comes with its challenges too, for instance, if any thing goes wrong in patient care, it is the consultant that carries the medicolegal burden. So of what use is the consultant pharmacist or nurse in this setting? The patient will only suffer and the standard of care will further depreciate as there will be confusion due to the many unnecessary captains of the ship who can do nothing more.


2. The want equal pay. This is in no way reasonable to any right thinking person as doctors don't do same work or add same value as any other person in the health sector. Is it in the emergency room, theatre or even laboratory?

Let me paint a scenario here. A 55year old doctor with say 25years experience that is a neurosurgeon, for instance, will frequently stand long hours doing very complex surgeries despite his rank, age and status. But a nurse, pharmacist or lab person with similar age and experience will just sit in the ward, pharmacy or lab bossing and tossing the younger ones about, doing absolutely nothing. They add little to no value and are no match in competency or ability but want same pay and remuneration, what an irritating greed and entitlement mentality. All these can only happen in Nigeria

Attached is a comparison of the ratio of the average earnings of healthcare professionals in different countries. In most cases, doctors earn x2 of what pharmacists and others earn but because of a difference of 20 - 50k naira at different levels, they keep going on strike.

After writing shit here, first let me correct you a consultant isn't only a physician... Use your dictionary... Explain why surgeons dropped the Doc prefix in Nigeria, also explain why the government has refused to implement signed agreements of 7months ago... You have suddenly gone brain dead when last year NMA went on strike for increment, and in three weeks government acceded... Selfish beings... The same Canada, UK you are quoting, rich and famous persons run overseas due to inadequate and porous health care system we have in Nigeria

.

duffyng:
We are not talking about such knowledge as structure of drug, functional group of a particular component of a drug.
we are interested in the therapeutic indications/applications of these drugs. We are talking about the pathological basis of disease & how those drugs can modify pathology. Doctors have much knowledge in this area.

I beg to differ to the above yes doctor's know more about pathological basis of disease, but drug indication and how drugs can modify pathology even the modification of concentration of drugs to get an effect, these are areas the doctors can not beat a well trained pharmacist.and be informed that the structures of drugs are important in their therapeutic indication, that why in a team a doctor ask the pharmacist to give him suggestion of drugs as he plans his therapy for a patient. We forget often that in all the patient is king

who is a well trained pharmacist & who is a poorly trained pharmacist!? what is drug indication?
if u do not know a pathology how will you be able to modify concentration to affect the pathology??

PLEASE TAKE A LOOK TO OLD COMESS AND OLD CONHESS:

COMESS 3 (which is the starting point for doctors) #260,865.58
CONHESS 7 (which is the starting point for some health workers like accountant etc) #118,765.
(difference of #142,100.00) 120% difference.

CONHESS 9 (which is another starting point for health workers eg pharmacist etc) #161,670.33.
(difference 99,195.25) 61% difference.

NOW LETS STILL COMPARE THE SALARY OF A NEWLY EMPLOYED DOCTOR ABOVE WITH A HEALTH WORKERS THAT HAVE SPENT 6 TO 9 YEARS IN SERVICE WHICH IS CONHESS 11.

CONHESS 11:#223,345.58 (difference of #37,520.00) 17% difference.

ABOVE IS FOR OLD CONMESS AND OLD CONHESS....

TAKE A LOOK AT THE NEW CONMESS AND PROPOSED CONHESS BY JOHESU, PLS SIR I WILL STILL WANT YOU TO COMPARE THIS NEW CONMESS WITH THE OLD CONHESS THAT JOHESU IS PRESENTLY RECEIVING NOW....

NEW CONMESS 3 :# 312,944.83.

PROPOSED CONHESS 7: #165,541.08
(difference of #147,403.75)
89%difference.

PROPOSED CONHESS 9: #190,227.25 (difference of #122,717.58)
65% difference.

PROPOSED CONHESS 11:
#255,184.83.
(difference of #57,760.00)
23% difference.

I WANT TO ALSO WRITE THAT OF THE ZENITH OF BOTH PROFESSION :

OLD CONMESS 7: #704,209.08
OLD CONHESS 15: #476,855.00
(DIFFERENCE #227,354.08)
48% DIFFERENCE.

NEW CONMESS 7:
#999,698.50
PROPOSED CONHESS 15:
#697,024,42.
(difference of #302,674.08)
43% Difference

now did NMA see the parity they have been singing with

I TOOK OUT MY PRECIOUS TIME TO HIGHLIGHT THIS FIGURES OUT because WHEN I AM TALKING I LIKE WORKING WITH FACT because THE TRUTH CAN'T BE HIDDEN.

Freddonance:



who is a well trained pharmacist & who is a poorly trained pharmacist!? what is drug indication?
if u do not know a pathology how will you be able to modify concentration to affect the pathology??

Go and tell those countries abroad who have modeled their health sector properly, all this back and forth, the poor, many patients in Nigeria bears the brunt when the reverse with great collaborative effort should be the case

sogodihno:


can u just shut up! is it only dispensing they do? what about reviewing of those drugs before they are dispense,(pharmacy techinician will do that too) only God know the number of patient that would have die, if not for pharmacist that review this drugs and check for unfavourable reactions, of course u won't know, because they won't come to the media to blast it at your face. ignoramus. SMH!

Help remind the ignorant fellow of the paradigm shift, pharmacist today migrated from drug dispensing to pharmaceutical care, intentionally leaving dispensing to the technicians.. There is a whole lot of work to be done by the pharmacist other than simply dispensing

bornolowu:
your brain is paining you, you want nigeria to be like the developed countries but you don't want what is obtained there to happen here.. Get your head tested dear. It can't happen in Nigeria? Yet you want the consultancy title happening for some professions there to happen here..you brain definitely needs testing.

I made a point without being insulting.
Whose brain needs testing?

As Johesu no resume despite the court order and no work, no pay mechanism, The thing dey pain Minister of DOCTOR for body well and those doctors that said they can do without us. The hospitals now look like a graveyard. WHERE ARE THOSE ALPHA DOCTORS KE? MEANWHILE

¤HIGHLIGHTS OF NORTH WEST JOHESU MOBILIZATION/SENSITIZATION MEETING HELD AT KANO(MHWUN SECRETARIAT)¤ ON 22/5/2018. The well attended meeting was chaired by a JOHESU official who is also National President of NANNM.

RESOLUTIONS:
1. No Retreat, No Surrender.
2. The Strike Continues until the Flagship of JOHESU demand which is CONHESS ADJUSTMENT is approved and implemented with Arrears paid as appropriate.
3. Nobody should be deterred by No Work No Pay. The Government has no right to implement the policy since JOHESU followed due process before the strike declaration. Any salary owed will be paid eventually.

4. The Court Order granted the faceless NGO is yet to be served on JOHESU even though JOHESU has a known address. When/if this is done, JOHESU is fully prepared to meet the FMOH/Government on the legal turf.

6. Names of Saboteurs are being compiled for appropriate sanctions after the strike.

7. Attempts are being made to reach Mr. President one on one to relay the true position of things in the Health Sector and the demands of JOHESU with a view to dispelling the falsehood being peddled by NMA and the Minister of Health and also get the President to answer JOHESU. 8. Members are to remain steadfast & focused & resist any form of intimidation.

9. Machineries are being put in place to encourage States yet to fully participate to join the struggle as the gains of the strike will trickle down.
*****Fraternal Messages were received from some of the officials of Unions present. ***
The gentlemen of the Press were on hand to cover the meeting. Dare to struggle, Dare to win:
Three of the Five affiliate Unions that make up JOHESU were present, viz: to NANNM, MHWUN & SSAUTHRIAI.....
The Chairman & Secretary of the Three Unions in NEC, Kaduna were at the Sensitization Meeting. Aluta Continua.

sogodihno:


can u just shut up! is it only dispensing they do? what about reviewing of those drugs before they are dispense,(pharmacy techinician will do that too) only God know the number of patient that would have die, if not for pharmacist that review this drugs and check for unfavourable reactions, of course u won't know, because they won't come to the media to blast it at your face. ignoramus. SMH!

So if a pharmacist checks possible unfavourable drug reactions before dispensing it, what would he do, he won't dispense it right? Stop exposing your ignorance to the whole world. Mention one drug with no possible side effects. if side effects are not possible with any drugs why do we have Pharmacovigilance forms in this country to report possible side effects. Go and learn and stop spewing gibberish

bornolowu:
It is not all that took an oath to save lives.. an association comprising of cleaners, accountants, ordeals, mortuary attendants, generator engineers can 't be about saving lives rather an accountant wants to held a hospital . They are saying that a cleaner also derserve to held a hospital, why will they not think this way since hazard allowance is 5000 naira for both the doctor, nurse, pharmacist, accountant, record staff but when Ebola and lassa came , more than 10 doctors died ( even though they represent 5 percent of hospital work force) and no member of JOHESU has been reported to have died except a nurse during the Ebola outbreak. Please Health sector should just be privitised all this aggitations will stop at once.

u r joking right? Privatise the health sector of a country with 75% living below poverty level?? Think again!

DrAdonis:
This whole JOHESU thing is tiring. They are just fighting an unjust battle which is an eternally lost one. They just want to further destroy the healthcare in Nigeria.

Let me just explain one or two of what they are clamouring for to those that are not very medically inclined

1. Just because doctors are appointed consultants, they want same. Let us examine who a consultant is in the hospital setting and his responsibilities.

A consultant is a medical doctor who finished medical school, did housemanship and NYSC then writes an exam called primaries which is very tough and competitive with an average pass rate of 20% (not cause majority fail but they choose the top scores as pass) then work as a medical officer for varying years (some more than 10 years) before starting residency. The residency is the postgraduate studies to be come consultants in various specialities like neurosurgery, plastic surgery, Paediatrics etc.
The residency training is a rigorous one and the resident doctor works for no less than 68 hours in a week, runs the emergency, clinics, do ward rounds, teach medical students and even nursing and other students. The resident doctor also does case and seminar presentations carries out researches, writes academic papers and does a thesis (all these and more are necessary prerequisites to become a consultant). This residency takes 6 to 12 years depending on the specialty and it also incorporates very tough specialty exams.

Also take note that a doctor that does not do residency but has 20 years of work and surgical experience is not decorated a consultant.
So for a pharmacist, nurse or medical record personnel to just wake up and say because they have 10 years experience they should be decorated consultants is very laughable and shows myopia, greed and the entitlement mentality that defines JOHESU.

Also, and more importantly, the consultant is the person in charge of patient care and determines what tests, what drugs, what nursing care the patient needs and is indisputably the head of the team. He plays a vital central lead role and he determines who needs to see a pharmacist or a nurse or a lab technician. This comes with its challenges too, for instance, if any thing goes wrong in patient care, it is the consultant that carries the medicolegal burden. So of what use is the consultant pharmacist or nurse in this setting? The patient will only suffer and the standard of care will further depreciate as there will be confusion due to the many unnecessary captains of the ship who can do nothing more.


2. The want equal pay. This is in no way reasonable to any right thinking person as doctors don't do same work or add same value as any other person in the health sector. Is it in the emergency room, theatre or even laboratory?

Let me paint a scenario here. A 55year old doctor with say 25years experience that is a neurosurgeon, for instance, will frequently stand long hours doing very complex surgeries despite his rank, age and status. But a nurse, pharmacist or lab person with similar age and experience will just sit in the ward, pharmacy or lab bossing and tossing the younger ones about, doing absolutely nothing. They add little to no value and are no match in competency or ability but want same pay and remuneration, what an irritating greed and entitlement mentality. All these can only happen in Nigeria

Attached is a comparison of the ratio of the average earnings of healthcare professionals in different countries. In most cases, doctors earn x2 of what pharmacists and others earn but because of a difference of 20 - 50k naira at different levels, they keep going on strike.

How many patients have you killed? it seems to me that you are not intelligent to be called a Dr. Have you worked or ever traveled in/to the UK? there are different categories of nurses in the UK, depending on qualifications,but let me remind you that here in the UK, there are nurses that earns more than some consultant physicians depending on area of specialty and work hours. there are consultant nurses in the UK, well educated and down to earth. man, be careful before u misled the public with you half baked information. I believe the reason for the consultancy is to aid in fostering research for betterment of patients care,through sound education. Secondly, the patient stayed 24hr in the hospital in custody of the nurses who delivered care, quality or not, depending on expertise and experience of the nurse, then let. me ask,what's the essence of having a consultant who attended to a patient only to left in the custody of poorly trained nurses who is saddle with the responsibility of instituting most of the outlined care? academic and professional growth and progressions should be allowed, as that's what makes a profession and professionalism,i guess you can comprehend the difference! Please, you should understand that Dr are not "all in all" in the health care delivery cycle, but everyone have independent,dependent and interdependent role to play in health care delivery. mr,you can't play the role of the nurses and pharmacists and others health professionals because you are not trained to do so, so respect them and there work because that's what they choose to be and do. It's the same qualifications to study these courses but they made their choices. in fact, most of them can make a better Dr than you but they made their choice. kill your ego.

Privatize the health sector now before it is too late .
Doctors should be thinking of group hospitals and leave government hospital for the Johesu to run.

[b][/b]

worlexy:
So if a pharmacist checks possible unfavourable drug reactions before dispensing it, what would he do, he won't dispense it right? Stop exposing your ignorance to the whole world. Mention one drug with no possible side effects. if side effects are not possible with any drugs why do we have Pharmacovigilance forms in this country to report possible side effects. Go and learn and stop spewing gibberish

who is talking about side effect? am talking about possible drug-drug reaction that ONLY a pharmacist can see and call the attention of the physician to it. Why are my wasting my time arguing with you sef, it's pointless since u u claim u know drug more than the pharmacist. Baba enjoy your ignorance. Take care.

sogodihno:
[b][/b]

who is talking about side effect? am talking about possible drug-drug reaction that ONLY a pharmacist can see and call the attention of the physician to it. Why are my wasting my time arguing with you sef, it's pointless since u u claim u know drug more than the pharmacist. Baba enjoy your ignorance. Take care.

Rubbish. Drug interactions is the easiest and simplest thing a medical student knows, oh it's a big thing to you guys. That's why high IQ is a requirement to study medicine

salford1:

You do not sound smart. Do you ever think a Nurse would earn equal pay as a doctor

Please sir, have been trying get your attention. I need your opinion over something. how do I contact you please. Thank you.

Freddonance:


Unfortunately, that's what they are taught in pharmacy school. They are taught to believe that doctors do not know much about drug

The same can truly be said about your ilk. You are taught to believe pharmacists know nothing about pathology and patho-physiology... Hell, y'all actually believe you are gods of healthcare, while others are expendable... It's not your fault that you lack professional courtesy, it seems to be a Nigerian anomaly.