Freethought:


Forget Roman.. He's very dead!!! We shld be worried about the person on the other end of that phone

thorrvik55:


Everyone of them was selected by the professor because of special skill sets they possess, Rio is an alarms expert...
Wot does Tokyo bring to d table?

LordAdamX:


True, we shouldn't derail the thread. But if you look up the meaning of the word 'cult,' you'll see it is very broad. And it's connotative meaning is often sinister and loosely applied, sometimes without merit. CoS is as much a cult as over a dozen Roman Catholic Orders. I'm talking orders that'd send shills down your spine if you learned of their MO and how much influence they have. And let's not start with the myriad of New Age Movements.

LordAdamX:

Yet people (at least most by the way) don't accord others the same treatment as CoS because of its profile and the bad rap it seems to ooze. The CoS is a religion. You may not like how it operates or its beliefs but I think calling it a cult is in poor taste. Moreso if you're going to use it to pin a hypocritical label on Elizabeth. The CoS is not the only religious organization (not traditional cults mind you) that has been investigated by the Feds for wrongdoing.

koice:

Uh-oh. Not this again. I've already have this conversation with a collegue, so I'll cut to the chase.

A cult is sneaky. They rope you in with curiosity, do some simple processing on you, when that makes you feel better, they push it a little further and a little further. Since you can't deny that you felt good, you gradually start to believe. Soon, you are giving up your money and time to the cult.

SoC is outlawed in western europe, Russia, and the Scandinavia, Roman Catholic is not. Why? Because SoC met the above criteria, Roman Catholic Orders didn't.

Even In Nigeria, we have 3 high profile cult like Institutions: RGGC, SCoAN and Christ Embassy. Yup. Their respective members just don't know it yet. In a saner clime like USA, Germany, France and Norway, such institutions will be paying taxes just like any other other business or outrightly outlawed.

You're right, SoC is not the only religious like organization that has been investigated by the feds. Remember the Branch Davidians? It was a commune with crazy ideas not disimilar to the ones SoC are currently promoting. We all know how it turned out, don't we?

Bottom line, when a formal/informal gathering of more than two people become in any way unorthodox (deviating from the norm), it can be qualified as a cult. That's the universal rule.

LordAdamX:


No one on the planet can outlaw a Roman Catholic Order. The Pope is a head of state. The Church is older than most European countries. SoC is being outlawed. Catholic Orders were exterminated like pest in the Middle Ages. Heck the foremost Catholic military order that fits the cult tag like a glove in them days--the Knight Templars--were thrown under the bus by the Pope himself. Members were tortured and executed.

Today, no one dares cross Catholic Orders because they're untouchable, not because they don't fit the cult tag.

And there are many cults in the developed world that aren't outlawed. From the Order of Skull and Bones (with former US Presidents as members) to the Bohemian Groove. No one really knows who the SoC screwed up with. Apparently, they launched a multi-national operation against the Feds (both in the US and major Western nations) and got found out. Like they were the first or that the Knights of Malta doesn't have eyes and ears in over 100 embassies on the planet. If powerful European nations are after them, it's either some sh*t is spooking them or there's some turf war.

So you can't use the outlawed stuff as a proof of them being a cult. All popular religions have members who occupy powerful positions in the society and who would use such authority where necessary and possible to protect their beliefs and organization.

LordAdamX:

And this is why I said you shouldn't use the cult tag so loosely, because people would misinterpret it. Very few people on here would agree with you that RGGC/RCCG, SCoAN, Christ Embassy et al are cults.

And in the USA, em sects would be very welcome. They have so many analogs over there--the Joel Osteen crowd.

LordAdamX:

The norm always changes. And if you're going to be really literal with that definition, most mainstream orgz are cults. From military special forces to a small informal online community of people with peculiar sexual interests. Which is another reason why I say using the cult tag for SoC is in bad taste. It is a religion.

LordAdamX:

Like Wicca, Laveyan Satanism et al. People are weird and in this age of unprecedented freedom of association, people would continue to have gatherings that are "unorthodox." Can't use the label for everyone. That's muddling things up.

-Lord

koice:

What I can gleaned from all these is that you're well versed in conspiracy theories. I salute you on your knowledge sir, but thing is, I don't care about speculative history and theories. I go with the facts bro, and facts are facts. Some ex SoC have come out publicly to denounce the organization as a cult. They can't all be lying now, yes?

You said I can't use the outlawed stuff as a proof, and I say yes, I can, and here's why. To be outlawed is to entail that a group or person is involved in an illegal activity. If a religious organization is illegal in top SECULAR DEMOCRACIES the world has to offer, then something must be very wrong indeed. You can gloss over it as much as you like but the fact remains SoC is an illegal religious gathering.




Semantics bro, semantics. Sects, cults, followership, bloc, et al are different nouns describing the same thing: an illegal religious/irreligious gathering of people in other to perpetuate mischievous activity.

You know what's pretty remarkable? Temple of the Disciples of Christ (TotDoC) started pretty much like this RCCG. It was at it's early stage a place where people of all race and station can met and interact and worship God, blah blah blah... It was all unicorn and rainbows until 'Rev' Jim Jones convinced his hundreds of brainwashed followers - and the reluctant ones at gunpoint - to drink cool-aid laced with cynide. 918 people died that day.

It's good that you brought up Joel Osteen, because he's another Jim Jones in the making. A charismatic brainwasher like him is remarkably dangerous if given an audience. Which is why the FBI has a file on him and others just like him. Joel was recently kicked out of Denmark unceremoniously, because unlike USA, most european countries don't have a loophole in their laws (the first amendment) that protects vile organizations and people like the SoC.

Bottom line, classifying a goose as a duck just to fit a narrative doesn't necessarily translate to actuality. A duck is a duck whilst a goose will always be a goose. A cult being called a church so as not to anger friends and the community doesn't stop it being a cult in practice. Like I said earlier, if it behaves in a certain way, then it's what it is. Let's try and call a spade a spade biko.







There is a flaw in your argument. The military can't be a cult because it's a public institution. Public institutions are owned and run by the government and that automatically disqualify them as cults. However, Paramilitaries are cults ala neo-nazis et al, because they are motivated, funded and owned privately. Hence, tagging SoC as a cult is very justified. It goes beyond being a mere religion, it's an illegal gathering.

Have you watched The Mentalist? There is a church like cult called Visualize. What fascinated me about this cult is the way they operate. First of all, they will encourage you to tell them everything about you, after which the brainwash will start. They will isolate you from your family, brainwash you into 'donating' all your money to the cult, until the point whereby the only thing you'll be living and breathing is 'Visualize'. The creator of the show has since come out to say the cult was modeled after it's real life equivalent, SoC. It's a scary thing to see, believe me.





True, you can't label everything, only the appropriate ones, and labelling SoC and it's cousins is very appropriate.

LordAdamX:


Clearly, this will be a drawn out back and forth if continued so I wouldn't pursue it further.

In closing,

My point is simple: You can't use the "cult" tag recklessly and loosely, especially considering the sentiments that tag conjures up. And it is very evident in that if you did a poll on this thread (or the forum in fact) to identify how many believe the RCCG is a cult, the overwhelming majority would choose the "NO" option. Yet you just labeled both the RCCG and CoS as cults.

You called Elizabeth a cult member. And so if we're to go with your train of thought, then RCCG members from the VP to the artisan on the street are also cult members. As so it'd also be hypocrisy for an actor who is a RCCG member to play a member of the Ogboni Confraternity in a local home video since both are cults.

You see what I did there?

It's not just about your opinion. It is also about perception. Which implies that we should be careful about our comments in the public sphere. The CoS is a religion.

-Lord

Freethought:
Someone should please give us direct links to Money Heist.. I can't seem to find the series anywhere

koice:



And I say glossing over facts to fit a narrative doesn't make the facts less true. Good day.

Damilare65:


Black sails

Westworld

power(50 cent killed it)

Money heist

True blood(I wanna do bad things with you)

Banshee

that's all I can remember for now

Achilles100:
Links for [/b]For the people[b] TV series, the sites I use don't have episode 9 and 10.

LordAdamX:


And I could say the same about your comment.

-Lord

koice:


I don't see how. SoG is an illegal religious like organization known for their shady activities. I didn't go out of my way to make up this allegations. People much more learned on the subject matter have since classified them as a cult (The FBI and Homeland Security), I only but use their playbook as my subject of testimony.

It can rightfully be argued that RCCG is a legit religious group since they don't pay tax. But that can only be attributed to the incompetence of the Nigerian constitution that doesn't have laws designed to curb the excesses of the such groups... add that to the fact that africans are very religious as a rule, it will probably never happen. However, if RCCG were to be transplanted to the States, the fundamentals will change drastically. The organization ticked some of the shady boxes... for eg, tithing is a mandatory practice required of every member, in fact, their GO publicly declared once in a viral video that people that don't pay tithe won't make heaven. If that isn't a form of cult like behaviour, I don't know what else is. My concern here is that if things were to continue like this, RCCG might end up like Jonestown - another testament of the destructive force of unconventional doctrines.

Hmm...

Damilare65:


Black sails

Westworld

power(50 cent killed it)

Money heist

True blood(I wanna do bad things with you)

Banshee

that's all I can remember for now

koice:

TV shows with dope theme songs (In no particular order). - CSI: New Work: The Who - Smallville: Save Me - The Unit: Walk The Fire - The Leftovers: Let The Mystery Be - GoT: Main Title Theme - Damages: When I'm Through With You - Orange is the New Black: You've Got Time - Friends: I'll Be There For You - The Sopranos: Woke Up This Morning

LordAdamX:


Which leads me to my second point, aiming a shot at Elizabeth because of her affiliation to a religion was way out of line, same way you wouldn't do same to a RCCG member playing an Ogboni Confraternity member in a nollywood movie.

koice:


-"I wanna do bad things with you" is pretty catchy. I don't know how I forgot that one.
- Money Heist theme song is also good.
- I disagree on Black Sail, it's original tho.
- Westworld theme song is fantastic, which isn't a bit surprising, because it is composed by the same dude that composed the famous GoT theme song.
- Power theme song is probably the only dope thing about the lackluster show.
- For the life of me, I am unable to recall Banshee's theme song... must have been pretty gash (theme song not the show).

Emioga:
Please is anyone watching avenida Brazil?

sconp:
Anyone here watching deception

sconp:
Anyone here watching deception