I dont understand what JOHESU really wants, can someone enlighten me?
[img][/img]

Fairness, for starters.

There's lots of undue favouritism and suppression in health sector. Not to mention the corruption.

Pay raise
65 years age limit for health workers
Payment of skipping arrears, relativity arrears from 2009
Appointment of administrators and other health professionals to run FG health institutions etc amongst others, instead of doctors.

These are the few I know of .

Restroom:


Pay raise
65 years age limit for health workers
Payment of skipping arrears, relativity arrears from 2009
Appointment of administrators and other health professionals to run FG health institutions etc amongst others, instead of doctors.

These are the few I know of .

65years for what, when NMA haven't even asked for 65yrs. Johesu is actually a crazy group, always putting their eyes in other people's progress. The way they ask for these things show their jealousy. In their leaders words "we want our retirement age to be increased to 65yrs as was done for University workers", are u a University worker?, also " We want our Conhess scale adjusted as was done for Doctors", are u also a Medical Doctor. Which hospital in any advanced Country is runned by a Pharmacist, Lab Technician or Nurse, when a Doctor is there. We only have Doctor led hospitals vs hospital administrator led hospital, of which the administrator is not even a health worker, so why do they want to distort the narrative. Finally the top 5 hospital in the world has Doctors as CEO, these include John Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic etc. So why don't we emulate the best?

MrBigiman:


65years for what, when NMA haven't even asked for 65yrs. Johesu is actually a crazy group, always putting their eyes in other people's progress. The way they ask for these things show their jealousy. In their leaders words "we want our retirement age to be increased to 65yrs as was done for University workers", are u a University worker?, also " We want our Conhess scale adjusted as was done for Doctors", are u also a Medical Doctor. Which hospital in any advanced Country is runned by a Pharmacist, Lab Technician or Nurse, when a Doctor is there. We only have Doctor led hospitals vs hospital administrator led hospital, of which the administrator is not even a health worker, so why do they want to distort the narrative. Finally the top 5 hospital in the world has Doctors as CEO, these include John Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic etc. So why don't we emulate the best?

Lab technicians ain't at same level with medical lab scientists... I'm sure you wanted to say medical lab scientists because both are different with different curriculum

bmlsbmls:
Lab technicians ain't at same level with medical lab scientists... I'm sure you wanted to say medical lab scientists because both are different with different curriculum

I've been in the Medical profession for a while. There's no difference in the result they produce or in their output in the Lab. One is just fat portfolio.

MrBigiman:


I've been in the Medical profession for a while. There's no difference in the result they produce or in their output in the Lab. One is just fat portfolio.

the scientist is more exposed to physiology, anatomy,biochemistry, pharmacology and pathology unlike the technician who spends just three years at college of health technology

bmlsbmls:
the scientist is more exposed to physiology, anatomy,biochemistry, pharmacology and pathology unlike the technician who spends just three years at college of health technology

Any difference in result. I currently have a BMLS and a MLT in my hospital, and sincerely theres no difference. The BMLS only collect fatter salary for nothing. Both produce LFT, EUCr, FBC, glycated HB, PSA results which I need. If not that we need a scientist for profiling, I would have gotten only technicians.

MrBigiman:


Any difference in result. I currently have a BMLS and a MLT in my hospital, and sincerely theres no difference. The BMLS only collect fatter salary for nothing. Both produce LFT, EUCr, FBC, glycated HB, PSA results which I need. If not that we need a scientist for profiling, I would have gotten only technicians.

but when it comes to performing complex tests, the scientist will be needed especially when a pathologist is absent

[quote author=bmlsbmls post=68096058]
but when it comes to performing complex tests, the scientist will be needed especially when a pathologist is absent[/quote
correct!!! how many complex testings do we perform in this country?

MrBigiman:


65years for what, when NMA haven't even asked for 65yrs. Johesu is actually a crazy group, always putting their eyes in other people's progress. The way they ask for these things show their jealousy. In their leaders words "we want our retirement age to be increased to 65yrs as was done for University workers", are u a University worker?, also " We want our Conhess scale adjusted as was done for Doctors", are u also a Medical Doctor. Which hospital in any advanced Country is runned by a Pharmacist, Lab Technician or Nurse, when a Doctor is there. We only have Doctor led hospitals vs hospital administrator led hospital, of which the administrator is not even a health worker, so why do they want to distort the narrative. Finally the top 5 hospital in the world has Doctors as CEO, these include John Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic etc. So why don't we emulate the best?

The Nigerian health sector is in shambles, one of the worst in the world. There is no unity between NMA and JOHESU. An average Nigerian does not read and thus has limited scope of knowledge, understanding and reasoning. A medical doctor for instance has just MBBS and fellowship and then feels he is a demigod, all-knowing super-human, with no any other qualification at all; no MBA, MPA , MHM, etc and yet assumes he can manage people and d hospital effectively. He does not even have a diploma or certificate course in management, to him he is too big and that these courses are useless, he has never read a single book on management or leadership to improve himself. A consultant will oppress his juniors, residents will look down on M.Os, Drs will look down on JOHESU, Senior JOHESU members will maltreat junior ones etc etc. And with this typical Nigerian mentality, this consultant (with only MBBS and Fellowship certificates) finds himself in a leadership position (CMD, MD etc) and you are expecting him to perform lolz. Now the structure of the Nigerian health sector is such that you have these MBBS+Fellows or MBBS-only individuals from minsiter of health to CMDs, MDs, CMACs, governing boards etc leading the health sector and you expect any improvement lolz. Five years ago I challenged one of my friends who is an orthopaedic surgeon to read atleast two books per year and to also get some other qualifications, at least one (like an MBA, MPH, a PGD, or MSc etc), he was complaining about time, I asked him if he was busier than Ben Carson, a successful neurosurgeon and an author, he was challenged and he created time for it. Today his MBA has given him the position of country head in an int'l NGO, he is much more fulfilled and happier now.
The CEO of Johns Hopkins Hospital (JHH) that you mentioned has BSc, M.D., fellowship, and a post-doc and has held several positions for many years before being appointed as CEO, so you can't compare him to what's obtainable here in Naija. Even his vice is a nurse with masters. The president of JHH also has an MBA.

Take a look at the leadership of JHH below:

Paul B. Rothman, M.D.
First Corporate Vice Chairman

Kevin W. Sowers, M.S.N., R.N., F.A.A.N.
Second Corporate Vice Chairman

Redonda G. Miller, M.D., M.B.A.
President

Deborah J. Baker, DNP, CRNP
Vice President, Nursing and Patient Care Services

Renee Demski
Vice President for Quality

Amy Deutschendorf
Vice President for Care Coordination and Clinical Resource Management

Kenneth Grant
Vice President, General Services

Peter Hill, M.D.
Vice President, Medical Affairs

Kristena Lukish
Vice President, Human Resources

Sally W. MacConnell
Vice President, Facilities

Stephanie L. Reel
Vice President, Management Systems & Information Services

Charles Reuland, M.H.S, Sc.D
Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer

G. Daniel Shealer Jr., Esquire
Vice President & General Counsel
Assistant Secretary

Daniel B. Smith
Vice President, Finance & Chief Financial Officer

Kathy P. Smith
Vice President, Marketing & Communications

Thomas B. Trzcinski
Treasurer

Gregory P. Miller
Assistant Treasurer

Samuel H. Clark Jr., Esquire
Assistant Secretary

Peter B. Mancino, Esquire
Secretary

AlphaT1:

The Nigerian health sector is in shambles, one of the worst in the world. There is no unity between NMA and JOHESU. An average Nigerian does not read and thus has limited scope of knowledge, understanding and reasoning. A medical doctor for instance has just MBBS and fellowship and then feels he is a demigod, all-knowing super-human, with no any other qualification at all; no MBA, MPA , MHM, etc and yet assumes he can manage people and d hospital effectively. He does not even have a diploma or certificate course in management, to him he is too big and that these courses are useless, he has never read a single book on management or leadership to improve himself. A consultant will oppress his juniors, residents will look down on M.Os, Drs will look down on JOHESU, Senior JOHESU members will maltreat junior ones etc etc. And with this typical Nigerian mentality, this consultant (with only MBBS and Fellowship certificates) finds himself in a leadership position (CMD, MD etc) and you are expecting him to perform lolz. Now the structure of the Nigerian health sector is such that you have these MBBS+Fellows or MBBS-only individuals from minsiter of health to CMDs, MDs, CMACs, governing boards etc leading the health sector and you expect any improvement lolz. Five years ago I challenged one of my friends who is an orthopaedic surgeon to read atleast two books per year and to also get some other qualifications, at least one (like an MBA, MPH, a PGD, or MSc etc), he was complaining about time, I asked him if he was busier than Ben Carson, a successful neurosurgeon and an author, he was challenged and he created time for it. Today his MBA has given him the position of country head in an int'l NGO, he is much more fulfilled and happier now.
The CEO of Johns Hopkins Hospital (JHH) that you mentioned has BSc, M.D., fellowship, and a post-doc and has held several positions for many years before being appointed as CEO, so you can't compare him to what's obtainable here in Naija. Even his vice is a nurse with masters. The president of JHH also has an MBA.

Take a look at the leadership of JHH below:

Paul B. Rothman, M.D.
First Corporate Vice Chairman

Kevin W. Sowers, M.S.N., R.N., F.A.A.N.
Second Corporate Vice Chairman

Redonda G. Miller, M.D., M.B.A.
President

Deborah J. Baker, DNP, CRNP
Vice President, Nursing and Patient Care Services

Renee Demski
Vice President for Quality

Amy Deutschendorf
Vice President for Care Coordination and Clinical Resource Management

Kenneth Grant
Vice President, General Services

Peter Hill, M.D.
Vice President, Medical Affairs

Kristena Lukish
Vice President, Human Resources

Sally W. MacConnell
Vice President, Facilities

Stephanie L. Reel
Vice President, Management Systems & Information Services

Charles Reuland, M.H.S, Sc.D
Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer

G. Daniel Shealer Jr., Esquire
Vice President & General Counsel
Assistant Secretary

Daniel B. Smith
Vice President, Finance & Chief Financial Officer

Kathy P. Smith
Vice President, Marketing & Communications

Thomas B. Trzcinski
Treasurer

Gregory P. Miller
Assistant Treasurer

Samuel H. Clark Jr., Esquire
Assistant Secretary

Peter B. Mancino, Esquire
Secretary

Read write up. John Hopkins have been headed by Medics for the Past 50years. To say our CMDs have no management training is another gross act of myopic ignorance

MrBigiman:



Read write up. John Hopkins have been headed by Medics for the Past 50years. To say our CMDs have no management training is another gross act of myopic ignorance

Bros cool down, I know much about JHH and I just gave you the structure of their leadership, that structure is not found here in Nigeria. I don't have any issue with medics heading hospitals or any organization for that matter but it should be those with experience and qualification. Now do you want us to delve into the qualifications and experience of those medics heading JHH for the past 50yrs and compare with ours in Naija? You calling me myopic is just a proof of what I said earlier; the limited scope of knowledge, understanding and reasoning of a typical Nigerian-the reason being Nigerians don't like reading.
Do you want us to go into the qualifications and leadership experience of our CMDs (in top FG teaching hospitals) one after the other and compare with the CEOs of those advance hospitals you mentioned earlier? At least my uncle was a CMD and he agreed with me that at best they go for 2-5 days management training sessions that they can hardly even remember the topics or titles not to talk of applying it. They only use those 2-5 days or even two weeks trainings for financial benefits, majority of them are not even interested in what the resource persons are teaching.
Before you call me myopic again, CMDs in Naija are political appointments, CEOs of hospitals over here in USA are not.....Are political appointments in Nigeria most of the times, merit based?
Sometimes you would not understand somethings until you travel outside that lawless country.

AlphaT1:

Bros cool down, I know much about JHH and I just gave you the structure of their leadership, that structure is not found here in Nigeria. I don't have any issue with medics heading hospitals or any organization for that matter but it should be those with experience and qualification. Now do you want us to delve into the qualifications and experience of those medics heading JHH for the past 50yrs and compare with ours in Naija? You calling me myopic is just a proof of what I said earlier; the limited scope of knowledge, understanding and reasoning of a typical Nigerian-the reason being Nigerians don't like reading.
Do you want us to go into the qualifications and leadership experience of our CMDs (in top FG teaching hospitals) one after the other and compare with the CEOs of those advance hospitals you mentioned earlier? At least my uncle was a CMD and he agreed with me that at best they go for 2-5 days management training sessions that they can hardly even remember the topics or titles not to talk of applying it. They only use those 2-5 days or even two weeks trainings for financial benefits, majority of them are not even interested in what the resource persons are teaching.
Before you call me myopic again, CMDs in Naija are political appointments, CEOs of hospitals over here in USA are not.....Are political appointments in Nigeria most of the times, merit based?
Sometimes you would not understand somethings until you travel outside that lawless country.

Why has a Nurse or a lab Scientist or a Pharmacist with masters in management or administration not been the CEO of John Hopkins, May Clinic or Cleveland Clinic in the Last 50yrs?, why is it still headed by physicians?, why have they not caused unrest there or a Johesu faction there to cause a change. Doctors remain drivers of the industry and nothing will change it.

MrBigiman:


Any difference in result. I currently have a BMLS and a MLT in my hospital, and sincerely theres no difference. The BMLS only collect fatter salary for nothing. Both produce LFT, EUCr, FBC, glycated HB, PSA results which I need. If not that we need a scientist for profiling, I would have gotten only technicians.

This your comment bespoke the whole health sector problems? You don't know and you wish not to know. You are so neck deep in quackery that you can spew this thrash. Come on....What da Bleep are you spewing dude.?
Gawd? Do you even know the difference between both? Do you know what technicians and scientist stand for? I mean the difference? Do you even know what they are supposed to do?

JoannaSedley:
This your comment bespoke the whole health sector problems? You don't know and you wish not to know. You are so neck deep in quackery that you can spew this thrash. Come on....What da Bleep are you spewing dude.?
Gawd? Do you even know the difference between both? Do you know what technicians and scientist stand for? I mean the difference? Do you even know what they are supposed to do?

Stop making noise. MLS and MLT are like RN nurses and BSC nurses. They have no difference in the hospital. One is just claiming graduate, but on the bench several MLT are far better. In fact I employed 2 MLT in my hospital and one MLS, and with the way it's going I will soon do away with the MLS, and the technicians are giving me all I need.

MrBigiman:


Why has a Nurse or a lab Scientist or a Pharmacist with masters in management or administration not been the CEO of John Hopkins, May Clinic or Cleveland Clinic in the Last 50yrs?, why is it still headed by physicians?, why have they not caused unrest there or a Johesu faction there to cause a change. Doctors remain drivers of the industry and nothing will change it.

I never said anything about JOHESU heading hospitals, you are pouring out your bitterness on a wrong person...I talked about the leadership structure of advance hospitals and the process of appointing its leaders...Have you been to JHH or Cleveland Clinic? Even a cleaner there is not as frustrated as a doctor or JOHESU in Nigeria..no JHH doctor or JOHESU will insult their colleague like market women....where are the doctors in Nigeria driving the industry to? To the mud abi? With the worst health indices in the world. The situation here is hopeless and will continue to be so.... instead of NMA and JOHESU to unite and hold the politicians accountable, you are there fighting over trivial issues and braging over driving the industry, which industry? Well, I would love to see change in those death traps called hospitals for the sake of the poor masses...They are death traps coz NMA and JOHESU have contributed in helping politicians to make them so.
Bros if you cross over to this side you will never ever compare those hospitals you are mentioning with Nigeria's, it's like comparing jet age tech with stone age. It is that bad, I mean very very bad..it is quite sad but that's the truth...
I work in a multidisciplinary firm too (HSE-marine) but we don't fight ourselves/colleagues dirty like that, it is unprofessional/unethical..why are you guys (NMA and JOHESU) quick to call people derogatory names? Myopic, rabid dog, slowpoke ...is it coz of the frustration at the country's situation?

I have both JOHESU and NMA member as siblings but fortunately they too have crossed over so they can't fight again.

AlphaT1:

I never said anything about JOHESU heading hospitals, you are pouring out your bitterness on a wrong person...I talked about the leadership structure of advance hospitals and the process of appointing its leaders...Have you been to JHH or Cleveland Clinic? Even a cleaner there is not as frustrated as a doctor or JOHESU in Nigeria..no JHH doctor or JOHESU will insult their colleague like market women....where are the doctors in Nigeria driving the industry to? To the mud abi? With the worst health indices in the world. The situation here is hopeless and will continue to be so.... instead of NMA and JOHESU to unite and hold the politicians accountable, you are there fighting over trivial issues and braging over driving the industry, which industry? Well, I would love to see change in those death traps called hospitals for the sake of the poor masses...They are death traps coz NMA and JOHESU have contributed in helping politicians to make them so.
Bros if you cross over to this side you will never ever compare those hospitals you are mentioning with Nigeria's, it's like comparing jet age tech with stone age. It is that bad, I mean very very bad..it is quite sad but that's the truth...
I work in a multidisciplinary firm too (HSE-marine) but we don't fight ourselves/colleagues dirty like that, it is unprofessional/unethical..why are you guys (NMA and JOHESU) quick to call people derogatory names? Myopic, rabid dog, slowpoke ...is it coz of the frustration at the country's situation?

I have both JOHESU and NMA member as siblings but fortunately they too have crossed over so they can't fight again.

In the rig u work, I guess the Doctor and the Nurses are paid the same. Johesu crossed the line. During their presidents interview on Channels TV, he mentioned NMA/Doctors over 50times, he lied that house officers earn over 300k, and further went to publish a falsified Doctors salary scale all over Facebook. And u expect Doctors to remain silent.

When doctors go on strike they don't mention anyone, but the reference point for every Johesu strike is Doctors and their favourite phrase is "as was done for Doctors

MrBigiman:


In the rig u work, I guess the Doctor and the Nurses are paid the same. Johesu crossed the line. During their presidents interview on Channels TV, he mentioned NMA/Doctors over 50times, he lied that house officers earn over 300k, and further went to publish a falsified Doctors salary scale all over Facebook. And u expect Doctors to remain silent.

When doctors go on strike they don't mention anyone, but the reference point for every Johesu strike is Doctors and their favourite phrase is "as was done for Doctors

That's why i said these attacks on each other (NMA vs JOHESU ) is not the solution, you people have left the real monster staring at you-(the corrupt politicians) and are fighting over frivolities. Where I work the pay is based on what you do and not by profession or yrs of study. That is the standard in d U.S. Different pay checks for different categories of employees; doctors, nurses, engineers etc with some nurses earning more than some doctors and vice versa based on their job schedule/description. That is not to say JOHESU is right or wrong or NMA is right or wrong, you guys need to be more creative and try and come to a compromise and in unison hold the politicians accountable.

MrBigiman:


Stop making noise. MLS and MLT are like RN nurses and BSC nurses. They have no difference in the hospital. One is just claiming graduate, but on the bench several MLT are far better. In fact I employed 2 MLT in my hospital and one MLS, and with the way it's going I will soon do away with the MLS, and the technicians are giving me all I need.

It goes to show how ignorant you are about the education of others. Technicians and scientists are like BSc and HND, until you understand the difference between them, then we will have a discussion.

JoannaSedley:
It goes to show how ignorant you are about the education of others. Technicians and scientists are like BSc and HND, until you understand the difference between them, then we will have a discussion.

I can't be throwing my money away to a scientist who will produce the same results as an experienced technician. It's simple cerebral science.

MrBigiman:


Stop making noise. MLS and MLT are like RN nurses and BSC nurses. They have no difference in the hospital. One is just claiming graduate, but on the bench several MLT are far better. In fact I employed 2 MLT in my hospital and one MLS, and with the way it's going I will soon do away with the MLS, and the technicians are giving me all I need.

You really have to stop lying Mr man! you have two MLTs and a Scientist in your hospital?Even to employ nurses is hard for you people, you always settle for auxiliaries.. Only if you are CEO of Reddington, St Nicholas, Eurocare, Avon and the likes...and which you can never be, because you are too childish and immature to own a good one.Always on nairaland moving from one Johesu thread to another, you no dey tire? Shioor ...ALL HAT AND NO CATTLE.

toysleek:

You really have to stop lying Mr man! you have two MLTs and a Scientist in your hospital?Even to employ nurses is hard for you people, you always settle for auxiliaries.. Only if you are CEO of Reddington, St Nicholas, Eurocare, Avon and the likes...and which you can never be, because you are too childish and immature to own a good one.Always on nairaland moving from one Johesu thread to another, you no dey tire? Shioor ...ALL HAT AND NO CATTLE.

So Reddinton has just 3 lab workers? Let think beyond mediocrity and pursue excellence. These hospital u mentioned have attained a level of excellence which I pray to some day attain. I don't believe in Auxiliary nurses, so I don't use them. The most I can do is it mix single and double qualified nurses. I also have at least 2 chews, It's a new growing business. Let's look beyond what common sense would allow and make the leap.

The so called 3 lab chaps still request for more hands, but we can't go beyond our capacity for now. I am a static investor and u don't expect me to be that busy, when almost all my activity has been allocated.

MrBigiman:


So Reddinton has just 3 lab workers? Let think beyond mediocrity and pursue excellence. These hospital u mentioned have attained a level of excellence which I pray to some day attain. I don't believe in Auxiliary nurses, so I don't use them. The most I can do is it mix single and double qualified nurses. Let's look beyond what common sense would allow and make the leap.

The so called 3 lab chaps still request for more hands, but we can't go beyond our capacity for now. I am a static investor and u don't expect me to be that busy, when almost all my activity has been allocated.

I hear you Oga Investor

toysleek:
I hear you Oga Investor

It's well madam. May God take us to the very top of our individual hustle.

"Nigerian" doctors are the problems of JOHESU and the health system as a whole in Nigeria. They are too selfish, egocentric and hateful. Because they are doctors, other professionals working in the same health sector must be made to suffer and regret not being a doctor.

Many people wouldn't believe that a fresh doctor from nysc starts in civil service from GL13 and an average other health worker who must have spent 5 years in the same universities and gone for nysc will take at least 9years to get that level. And for instance, an assistant director of pharmacy or nursing etc on GL 14 who must have been in service for over 13 years can't even get a basic salary as much as that of an entry level doctor on GL13. Now, asking for that is what they ignorantly or wickedly termed as "parity" pretending to forget the already huge relativity at d entry points.

This is just one of the too many agonies they must put other health professionals through to feel like "doctors". They are the only ones who must earn well like their colleagues abroad as if colleagues of other professionals dont work abroad too.

It is a big shame and until the FG is ready to take the bold step, be impartial, ignore their threats and make sure justice is done and other health professionals are treated fairly like they are also essential, there will be no peace in that sector and it will remain in the shambles the nigerian doctors had put it.