Salmom:
I submitted my passport for renewal three weeks ago and still no news from the embassy. In fact my profile was saying "passport is still with the consulate" but now its not saying anything about my passport again...Pls has any one experienced this

Sighs.... This is a pretty rich thread/resource material. Have you checked it out with this link that has been posted here over and over again? Please do first.

https://ceac.state.gov/CEACStatTracker/Status.aspx

Salmom:
I submitted my passport for renewal three weeks ago and still no news from the embassy. In fact my profile was saying "passport is still with the consulate" but now its not saying anything about my passport again...Pls has any one experienced this

yes I xperience the same thing and after a day I got a message to pick it up

Nigerians on the Move

i advise yo go with ur kids first to at least secure theirs since they have a relatively rich history compared to your husby then u take husby in #my2cents

lollyberry:
Hello house please I need ur urgent response please

I renewed my visa via drop box and after 13 days I got a message to pick it up although I used it for birthing of my 3rd baby in 2015
Now I want to apply for my 2 other kids and husband because we plan on going for Christmas holiday

But with the recent trend of reject got me scared

So I want to ask if I should apply for my children first then later hubby will do his seperatly. Or should they apply together

Hubby does not have travel history
First child has travel history to UK
Second child no travel history
Third child is a citizen
And I do have travel history to UK 2013 and USA 2016 and have a valid USA passport

Pls ur advice is needed

Yours was okay, mine was disastrous. I had the whole confidence until I approached stand8. The young man was friendly but I was jittering and blabbing. I hated myself because I was below my best. I knew I could have done better. It took me 48hrs to get over a self inflicted mess. Is not a do or die affair but I will try again!

Sorry I couldn't post yesterday, I was exhausted to the bone
So here it goes :
I must say I enjoyed the process so much though tiring from all the queuing. I'm in Ghana, 23 and a student. Straight DENIAL! This whole idea of visiting the US was from my parents. I won't lie I doubted I stood a chance after going through people's experiences but I had already done a lot and was only awaiting my interview day. I was positive all the same because my intentions were good. I thank God all the same .
Interview day
I woke up around 4 or 4:30am I don't remember because my mum woke me up while I was just trying to enjoy my sleep. So fast forward to 6am when I and parents reached the embassy. First timer, completely lost and confused. I asked a personnel what I had to do before my 7:30 appointment and he told me to hang around a tree where I saw lots of people standing and waiting. I went ahead and stood there for a while till some police officer asked those who had their interview to form a queue. I did go through the checks etc it was already past 7:30 and I was already waiting my turn to be interviewed. I wasn't paying attention to those being interviewed except one pastor who was approved a visa and one university lady who was denied and another guy who was also denied. So after the guy who was denied, I was asked to go to that VO. One chubby guy with beard and in his mid 30's . Honestly he was cool.
VO: Hi good morning
Me: good morning(cheerfully) how are you?
VO: fine thank you (looking at his computer typing)
May I have your passport please?
Me: sure(smiles)
I caughed lightly and said sorry and he said no problem (still typing) he wasn't looking too serious as I said he was cool
VO: So why are you going to the US
Me: I'd love to spend my long summer break sightseeing and exploring interesting places in the US and also I'll be visiting my uncle
VO: typing what I said and even repeating what I said I was smiling (now I know they type our answers for future purposes)
Where in the US are you going to?
Me: Columbus ,Ohio
VO: What do you do?
Me: I'm a student of bla bla
VO: What course do you offer?
Me: I'm a 1st year student pursuing a 4-year degree programme in information technology but I'll be progressing to my 2nd year after the break
VO: okay. He nodded still typing. Have you traveled before?
Me: No sir.
VO: okay. Are you married?
Me: I'm very single with a grin
VO: looks at me and smiles
Okay do you have kids?
Me: No sir (smiles)
VO: okay. I'm sorry bla bla (y'all know the rest already lol)
As he was handing me my passport and the 214b paper I asked wasn't being a student a strong enough tie to return (even though I knew the answer already lol still wanted to know all the same)
Surprisingly he suggested another thing for me. Asking if I've heard of the J-1 visa for exchange program to which I nodded and said yes ,that I did plan on applying for that next year and he went ahead to say it'll be the best choice for me as a student and not only would I be able to visit some places in the US but I'll also be able to work (summer work and travel)
So I said ok and thank you with a smile and elegantly left the premises to announce the outcome to my mum who was waiting anxiously for some good news. She felt bad but I assured her it's alright and the next time I'll go through with the J-1 visa successfully.
So that's it. No docs checked as usual. This forum helped a lot. Kudos to the brains behind it and to those awaiting, all the best.
[/quote]

I was bounced o. Naija is a shithole. See blue paper flying up and down. White paper was given to the old folks and very few couples. Avoid the mean faced lady in row 2. She no get joy. Transcript below:

Vo: good morning
Me: good morning
Vo: where are you going?
Me: Atlanta georgia
Vo: why are you going?
Me: vacation
Vo: what do you do?
Me: I'm a banker
Vo: what's your position in Xx bank?
Me: Assistant banking officer
Vo: have you travelled out of naija before?
Me: yes. UK
Vo: when was this?
Me: 2011
Vo: how long did you stay
Me: 2weeks
Vo: was it a vacation trip?
Me: yes
Vo: how long do u intend staying in the US
Me: 10days
Vo: Are you married?
Me: Yes
Vo: do u have kids?
Me: No but my wife is 2months gone.
Vo: are you going alone
Me: yes
Vo: does your wife has a US visa?
Me: No.

Sorry your not qualified at this time. Where did I go wrong now?

Pipedreams:
I was bounced o. Naija is a shithole. See blue paper flying up and down. White paper was given to the old folks and very few couples. Avoid the mean faced lady in row 2. She no get joy. Transcript below:

Vo: good morning
Me: good morning
Vo: where are you going?
Me: Atlanta georgia
Vo: why are you going?
Me: vacation
Vo: what do you do?
Me: I'm a banker
Vo: what's your position in Xx bank?
Me: Assistant banking officer
Vo: have you travelled out of naija before?
Me: yes. UK
Vo: when was this?
Me: 2011
Vo: how long did you stay
Me: 2weeks
Vo: was it a vacation trip?
Me: yes
Vo: how long do u intend staying in the US
Me: 10days
Vo: Are you married?
Me: Yes
Vo: do u have kids?
Me: No but my wife is 2months gone.
Vo: are you going alone
Me: yes
Vo: does your wife has a US visa?
Me: No.

Sorry your not qualified at this time. Where did I go wrong now?

so sorry about this, am not sure if your age plays a role but not having kids could also be a negative factor, that's my take on this, the only tie you have is your wife for now

hawklan:
i advise yo go with ur kids first to at least secure theirs since they have a relatively rich history compared to your husby then u take husby in #my2cents

thanks so much will take to ur advice

lollyberry:
thanks so much will take to ur advice

consider these 2 options. any will work to your favour.

1. Go with your 2 kids for their visa. They'll most likely be given if no breach of visa terms from you. Later hubby can apply for himself.

2. Let your hubby apply with the kids while taking your passport and all your birthing receipts along.

shrekandfiona:

consider these 2 options. any will work to your favour.

1. Go with your 2 kids for their visa. They'll most likely be given if no breach of visa terms from you. Later hubby can apply for himself.

2. Let your hubby apply with the kids while taking your passport and all your birthing receipts along.

thanks so much shrekandfiona ,I am so grateful for ur response

Pascal88:
Yours was okay, mine was disastrous. I had the whole confidence until I approached stand8. The young man was friendly but I was jittering and blabbing. I hated myself because I was below my best. I knew I could have done better. It took me 48hrs to get over a self inflicted mess. Is not a do or die affair but I will try again!

Sorry I couldn't post yesterday, I was exhausted to the bone
So here it goes :
I must say I enjoyed the process so much though tiring from all the queuing. I'm in Ghana, 23 and a student. Straight DENIAL! This whole idea of visiting the US was from my parents. I won't lie I doubted I stood a chance after going through people's experiences but I had already done a lot and was only awaiting my interview day. I was positive all the same because my intentions were good. I thank God all the same .
Interview day
I woke up around 4 or 4:30am I don't remember because my mum woke me up while I was just trying to enjoy my sleep. So fast forward to 6am when I and parents reached the embassy. First timer, completely lost and confused. I asked a personnel what I had to do before my 7:30 appointment and he told me to hang around a tree where I saw lots of people standing and waiting. I went ahead and stood there for a while till some police officer asked those who had their interview to form a queue. I did go through the checks etc it was already past 7:30 and I was already waiting my turn to be interviewed. I wasn't paying attention to those being interviewed except one pastor who was approved a visa and one university lady who was denied and another guy who was also denied. So after the guy who was denied, I was asked to go to that VO. One chubby guy with beard and in his mid 30's . Honestly he was cool.
VO: Hi good morning
Me: good morning(cheerfully) how are you?
VO: fine thank you (looking at his computer typing)
May I have your passport please?
Me: sure(smiles)
I caughed lightly and said sorry and he said no problem (still typing) he wasn't looking too serious as I said he was cool
VO: So why are you going to the US
Me: I'd love to spend my long summer break sightseeing and exploring interesting places in the US and also I'll be visiting my uncle
VO: typing what I said and even repeating what I said I was smiling (now I know they type our answers for future purposes)
Where in the US are you going to?
Me: Columbus ,Ohio
VO: What do you do?
Me: I'm a student of bla bla
VO: What course do you offer?
Me: I'm a 1st year student pursuing a 4-year degree programme in information technology but I'll be progressing to my 2nd year after the break
VO: okay. He nodded still typing. Have you traveled before?
Me: No sir.
VO: okay. Are you married?
Me: I'm very single with a grin
VO: looks at me and smiles
Okay do you have kids?
Me: No sir (smiles)
VO: okay. I'm sorry bla bla (y'all know the rest already lol)
As he was handing me my passport and the 214b paper I asked wasn't being a student a strong enough tie to return (even though I knew the answer already lol still wanted to know all the same)
Surprisingly he suggested another thing for me. Asking if I've heard of the J-1 visa for exchange program to which I nodded and said yes ,that I did plan on applying for that next year and he went ahead to say it'll be the best choice for me as a student and not only would I be able to visit some places in the US but I'll also be able to work (summer work and travel)
So I said ok and thank you with a smile and elegantly left the premises to announce the outcome to my mum who was waiting anxiously for some good news. She felt bad but I assured her it's alright and the next time I'll go through with the J-1 visa successfully.
So that's it. No docs checked as usual. This forum helped a lot. Kudos to the brains behind it and to those awaiting, all the best.

The interview day can be really overwhelming I know but you need to put yourself together
All the best on your next attempt

Pipedreams:
I was bounced o. Naija is a shithole. See blue paper flying up and down. White paper was given to the old folks and very few couples. Avoid the mean faced lady in row 2. She no get joy. Transcript below:

Vo: good morning
Me: good morning
Vo: where are you going?
Me: yes
Vo: does your wife has a US visa?
Me: No.

Sorry your not qualified at this time. Where did I go wrong now?

You have a weak travel history in the last 5 years.... you should work on that and 8 months before today you should be getting the white paper but things have changed now. I'm sorry.

OmoBendel24:


Sighs.... This is a pretty rich thread/resource material. Have you checked it out with this link that has been posted here over and over again? Please do first.

https://ceac.state.gov/CEACStatTracker/Status.aspx

thank you for sharing.. I tried the link two days ago but it wasnt working , just tried it now and this is the message I got...

lollyberry:
yes I xperience the same thing and after a day I got a message to pick it up

ok. Thank you..

Pipedreams:
I was bounced o. Naija is a shithole. See blue paper flying up and down. White paper was given to the old folks and very few couples. Avoid the mean faced lady in row 2. She no get joy. Transcript below:

Vo: good morning
Me: good morning
Vo: where are you going?
Me: Atlanta georgia
Vo: why are you going?
Me: vacation
Vo: what do you do?
Me: I'm a banker
Vo: what's your position in Xx bank?
Me: Assistant banking officer
Vo: have you travelled out of naija before?
Me: yes. UK
Vo: when was this?
Me: 2011
Vo: how long did you stay
Me: 2weeks
Vo: was it a vacation trip?
Me: yes
Vo: how long do u intend staying in the US
Me: 10days
Vo: Are you married?
Me: Yes
Vo: do u have kids?
Me: No but my wife is 2months gone.
Vo: are you going alone
Me: yes
Vo: does your wife has a US visa?
Me: No.

Sorry your not qualified at this time. Where did I go wrong now?

Chai!! so sorry about this. Before one decide to apply for USA visa this time around, it has to be on something very genuine, they no longer consider vacation on some circumstances. Like this your own case , u are married and y wife is 2months pregnant , her first pregnancy and u are leaving her to go for 10days vacation, not a good one bros, that is the way the VO will evaluate u. Had it been u are going on a serious business trip no problem leaving y wife behind but going on vacation alone , NO WAY!
Also u d'nt av recent traveling history. Not enough for USA dis days. Try to travel again to uk or France bf u apply.

Because of this Canada stuff, they av really increased their criteria for evaluating visa dis days. Cheer up and all the best next attempt

monchat:


Chai!! so sorry about this. Before one decide to apply for USA visa this time around, it has to be on something very genuine, they no longer consider vacation on some circumstances. Like this your own case , u are married and y wife is 2months pregnant , her first pregnancy and u are leaving her to go for 10days vacation, not a good one bros, that is the way the VO will evaluate u. Had it been u are going on a serious business trip no problem leaving y wife behind but going on vacation alone , NO WAY!
Also u d'nt av recent traveling history. Not enough for USA dis days. Try to travel again to uk or France bf u apply.

Because of this Canada stuff, they av really increased their criteria for evaluating visa dis days. Cheer up and all the best next attempt

You're getting this wrong.... People still get visa for vacation but you must have strong ties.. he was denied based on weak travel history, if his trip to the U.K was last 2-3 years they may consider it and his wife pregnancy maybe an advantage or disadvantage depending on the V.O.

seyewest:


You're getting this wrong.... People still get visa for vacation but you must have strong ties.. he was denied based on weak travel history, if his trip to the U.K was last 2-3 years they may consider it and his wife pregnancy maybe an advantage or disadvantage depending on the V.O.

Ps I said on some circumstances. I never said that pple d'nt get visa for vacation.

monchat:


Ps I said on some circumstances. I never said that pple d'nt get visa for vacation.

Oh Okay....

On Pipedreams: Bankers are in for a rough ride with the embassy methinks. They used to be one of the most trusted applicants in Nigeria, but they recently have become great in misusing the US/Canada visas, their colleagues after them are paying for their 'sins'! Bankers can't exactly be banked on right now (I remember one telling me if I knew what they see and believe about our country's financial situation/system). His wife's condition didn't help too, had it been there was a child already too.... And no guarantees still!

OmoBendel24:
Bankers are in for a rough ride with the embassy methinks. They used to be one of the most trusted applicants in Nigeria, but they recently have become great in misusing the US/Canada visas, their colleagues after them are paying for their 'sins'! Bankers can't exactly be banked on right now (I remember one telling me if I knew what they see and believe about our country's financial situation/system) His wife's condition didn't help too, had it been there was a child already too.

There's this guy I know who was a safety officer married to a banker in management position. He earned far less than his wife in a less reputable company and so she served as a strong tie He got a B2 Visa sometime last year and traveled without coming back.

NothingDoMe:
There's this guy I know who was a safety officer married to a banker in management position. He earned far less than his wife in a less reputable company and so she served as a strong tie He got a B2 Visa sometime last year and traveled without coming back.

Imagine

OmoBendel24:
On Pipedreams: Bankers are in for a rough ride with the embassy methinks. They used to be one of the most trusted applicants in Nigeria, but they recently have become great in misusing the US/Canada visas, their colleagues after them are paying for their 'sins'! Bankers can't exactly be banked on right now (I remember one telling me if I knew what they see and believe about our country's financial situation/system). His wife's condition didn't help too, had it been there was a child already too.... And no guarantees still!

I agree with you. Bankers rank high on the list of people that abuse their visas. Once appraisals come in low and their jobs are a bit shaky, some of them travel and stay back in the USA.
Even the current Canada asylum craze, many ex-bankers (that got their visas while still working) are involved and migrating heavily.

Pity,Banking is not as "exalted" as before...Naija go better!

seyewest:


Oh Okay....

Yes I agree with you on this because VO was not convinced because someone expecting a baby will not spend so much money on a 10 days holiday by him self.

That applicant have a fairly good travel history but his reason for travelling is weak based on his cuurent situation.

Vo's are human so they think fast and make a decision based on your answers. If it's a female VO she will just say look at this selfish man want to go enjoy by himself while his wife is pregnant instead of planning for their baby.

This is why it's important to answer the questions straight instead of giving futher information which may raise a red flag.

Overall, the applicant did well in his interview.

A few years ago I was in a similar circumstance with similar response. The VO said she thinks it’s unfair for me to leave my pregnant wife at home for a vacation.

I and my wife had applied 2 years before this when she was 3 months pregnant for our first. We declared that she was pregnant and the interview that seemed to be going well ended the moment we said that.

Thankfully I got the visa at the third attempt a couple of months after the second, I had a training with a letter sent to the embassy, that was a good enough justification.

Try again.

Pipedreams:
I was bounced o. Naija is a shithole. See blue paper flying up and down. White paper was given to the old folks and very few couples. Avoid the mean faced lady in row 2. She no get joy. Transcript below:

Vo: good morning
Me: good morning
Vo: where are you going?
Me: Atlanta georgia
Vo: why are you going?
Me: vacation
Vo: what do you do?
Me: I'm a banker
Vo: what's your position in Xx bank?
Me: Assistant banking officer
Vo: have you travelled out of naija before?
Me: yes. UK
Vo: when was this?
Me: 2011
Vo: how long did you stay
Me: 2weeks
Vo: was it a vacation trip?
Me: yes
Vo: how long do u intend staying in the US
Me: 10days
Vo: Are you married?
Me: Yes
Vo: do u have kids?
Me: No but my wife is 2months gone.
Vo: are you going alone
Me: yes
Vo: does your wife has a US visa?
Me: No.

Sorry your not qualified at this time. Where did I go wrong now?

Jbankole2018:
Hi, please I want your candid advice, have already applied for US tourist visa and am scheduled for next month ending. Am married with two kids, my wife and I are working with good pay. The issue I have is I haven't never traveled out of the country and I stated it in my application form. Now that travelling history is very key in issuing US visa, what are the alternative I have? Should reschedule my appointment and try to travel to other countries to boost my chance or I should just go for my interview next month ending. Thanks guys

Just try but to be realistic chances are slim.

NothingDoMe:
There's this guy I know who was a safety officer married to a banker in management position. He earned far less than his wife in a less reputable company and so she served as a strong tie He got a B2 Visa sometime last year and traveled without coming back.

Quite tiring.... They are making everything become tighter for even the genuine applicants seriously in my opinion

Chuchunana:
I agree with you. Bankers rank high on the list of people that abuse their visas. Once appraisals come in low and their jobs are a bit shaky, some of them travel and stay back in the USA. Even the current Canada asylum craze, many ex-bankers (that got their visas while still working) are involved and migrating heavily. Pity,Banking is not as "exalted" as before...Naija go better!

Exactly.... These set of people and the high cadre working class people/professionals are the ones giving the VOs "bloodied nostrils" that has turned them "green" like seriously. Have you ever seen the performance of the Nigerian Police when one juvenile decides to go and carry their roadblock "egunje" from their "bush-bank"? Na so these VOs be right now.

They have adjudged an individual to the best of their ability and training as one who makes the mark and yet he/she and loads of people in his/her category disappear into thin air once they arrive US or they are seen arriving somewhere around the Canadian border in a matter of days, weeks and not even months of US arrival? They really have to quickly adjust in order to stem the tide.... Long and rough road/hurdle ahead for even genuine applicants even though visas will still be getting granted, not entirely bad.

Seems this madness had reached neck-breaking dimension even since last year and it was just us unawares here. I'm still wondering why our VO friends on here changed approach since late last year, is it connected to the above and some sort of assumed "pepper-eyes"?

Chuchunana:


I agree with you. Bankers rank high on the list of people that abuse their visas. Once appraisals come in low and their jobs are a bit shaky, some of them travel and stay back in the USA.
Even the current Canada asylum craze, many ex-bankers (that got their visas while still working) are involved and migrating heavily.

Pity,Banking is not as "exalted" as before...Naija go better!

I dont agree with you. During my stint in the banking sector in 2016/2017 a lot of us travelled in/out Lagos for vacations and trainings. The bank had an automated application through which members of staff applied for letter of introduction for embassies. A good number of my former colleagues had their families legally residing in USA, UK, Canada and Ireland. In addition a lot of them got their wives to go have their babies in USA.

On the other hand i'll give a short story. In 2016 about 14 of us were sent to new york on a two week training. Prior to the commencement of the training about 11 of us applied to the US consulate for B1 visas and 10 of us were issued. The guy who got denied was older than us (in his late 30s ) and he joined the bank many years ago as an unskilled staff and later got his education upgraded and was converted to a full staff but mere looking at him he looked quite unkept. He was denied and he immediately reapplied and was denied again. He couldn't make the trip again.

We all travelled on Delta to HArtsfied airport ATL and on getting there the CBP officers accosted one of us (I've always felt like she looks unkept for a lady ). They grilled her and even called our boss at the office in nigeria. Our boss confirmed that she was there on a training with 12 others, confirmed the amount that was given to her and even told the CBP officers that he will be joining the team in new york the following week. She was eventually granted entry.

The point I'm trying to make is that these VO's/CBP officers act based on instincts. From your profile, appearance and composure they tend to judge who they suspect as a potential absconder and who they believe will return home to Nigeria at the end of their trip.

First timers applying for tourism purpose usually have a difficult time proving their eligibility to the VO because the VO tends to wonder why the applicant chose USA as their first touristic destination. Going to the USA or any country illegally is not worth it.

benolala:


Yes I agree with you on this because VO was not convinced because someone expecting a baby will not spend so much money on a 10 days holiday by him self.


This is why it's important to answer the questions straight instead of giving futher information which may raise a red flag.

Overall, the applicant did well in his interview.

They gave a friend who told them is wife is 5 months pregnant but it's for Conference.

Pipedreams:
I was bounced o. Naija is a shithole. See blue paper flying up and down. White paper was given to the old folks and very few couples. Avoid the mean faced lady in row 2. She no get joy. Transcript below:

Vo: good morning
Me: good morning
Vo: where are you going?
Me: Atlanta georgia
Vo: why are you going?
Me: vacation
Vo: what do you do?
Me: I'm a banker
Vo: what's your position in Xx bank?
Me: Assistant banking officer
Vo: have you travelled out of naija before?
Me: yes. UK
Vo: when was this?
Me: 2011
Vo: how long did you stay
Me: 2weeks
Vo: was it a vacation trip?
Me: yes
Vo: how long do u intend staying in the US
Me: 10days
Vo: Are you married?
Me: Yes
Vo: do u have kids?
Me: No but my wife is 2months gone.
Vo: are you going alone
Me: yes
Vo: does your wife has a US visa?
Me: No.

Sorry your not qualified at this time. Where did I go wrong now?

you probably didn't give the VO good reason for traveling alone. Next time don't apply alone, and have a strong family travel history incase. And if u want to visit U.S on same Solo travel, visit Canada and return, they will grant u Visa without any doubt.

Pipedreams:
I was bounced o. Naija is a shithole. See blue paper flying up and down. White paper was given to the old folks and very few couples. Avoid the mean faced lady in row 2. She no get joy. Transcript below:

Vo: good morning
Me: good morning
Vo: where are you going?
Me: Atlanta georgia
Vo: why are you going?
Me: vacation
Vo: what do you do?
Me: I'm a banker
Vo: what's your position in Xx bank?
Me: Assistant banking officer
Vo: have you travelled out of naija before?
Me: yes. UK
Vo: when was this?
Me: 2011
Vo: how long did you stay
Me: 2weeks
Vo: was it a vacation trip?
Me: yes
Vo: how long do u intend staying in the US
Me: 10days
Vo: Are you married?
Me: Yes
Vo: do u have kids?
Me: No but my wife is 2months gone.
Vo: are you going alone
Me: yes
Vo: does your wife has a US visa?
Me: No.

Sorry your not qualified at this time. Where did I go wrong now?

Travel with your wife Mr.

.

seyewest:


They gave a friend who told them is wife is 5 months pregnant but it's for Conference.

Yes that's because his reason for travelling was important and not looking selfish.

(1) Conference date can't be change by organizers cos your wife is pregnant. Tourism can be reschedule at a better time to include your wife and baby.
(2) Conference is worth the expenses as long as you can prove it importance to your professional development. Tourism at a time you are expecting a baby thge VO may likely deny you helping you save money for what's ahead.
(3) Female VO will be careful not to give you the chance of breaking your marriage leaving a young wife to suffer. At list we all know how travelling have put so many happy marriages into difficulties. Make I go come back go turn 10 years no see... lol