erico2k2:

you are not far from the truth, the thing is 40% of Nigerians who are mechanic cant read nor write, about 70% don't want to upgrade and improve themselves, they stick to the old ways (Caborator Era) why about 60% just cant be bothered to upgrade and get the right tools for the Modern day cars.

It's a nightmare I tell you and cars are getting more advanced each year. If something drastic isn't done, we would have very few competent mechanics in Nigeria in a few years to come

AutoTechNG:
Some of us not only read manuals....we also undergo manufacturer education...the dealerships in Nigeria don't even necessarily employ on the shop floor guys with certificates to back up their automotive repair skills...they go for cheap labor...it is the foreman who has the certificates, the shop floor boys don't.

I align myself with the opinion that the place does not dictate the quality of the mind

How many times have dealerships called local experts behind the scenes to solve problems for them?


Those who know know.

I have heard a story of a guy who fixes GM cars in Abuja that GM knows about because of his doing all the above, taking factory training, and by the way, he is not working at a dealership


Nigeria is not America where they insist on [b]ASE entry level certification [/b]to work at the dealership

Funny enough anyone with a basic knowledge of cars and how engines work can easily pass the ASE exams. Seen some of the questions online and they aren't anything spectacular.

tensazangetsu20:

It's the same neophytes who work at the dealerships too. They ask you to sit down and wait while they print the manuals and tinker with it . These are cars men and not rockets or ships or airplanes . When I start driving exotic cars, I would do my repairs myself. I would rather invest the money to pay for repairs at the dealerships on manual subscriptions and getting the required tools. How many mechanics at those big name dealerships in Nigeria can even read wiring diagrams see? How many mechanics here use a torque wrench? I rather fix my car myself . [b]They fit even pour 20w50 [/b]inside then fix filter upside down and knock down the engine all in the name of "dealership"

@ the bolded,I have seen this done with my two eyes, this guy in a Texaco service station doing Oil change for different kinds and brands, pouring oil from one drum, thank God I went with my own OIL.Is that not recipe for disaster for those Engines. Plus there was a queue of people waiting to be served.

If this is not true of your technician/mechanic, he is not worthy of the title

oyb:


Unfortunately or perhaps fortunately there is no one with a porsche for you to test this hypothesis on. Or would you trust your vehicle to an earnest neophyte who has read the manual?

I think you are missing the point, if you go to a garage, you leave your car with them, they go straight to the manuals, this is the reason they can repair any car. The repair manual is very important as it contains various MUST ie torque settings. Angles and gradients., gives you expectant voltage from each wires and components you are meant to check work with a company where we service any machine with hydraulics, for each new crane or heavy lifter I go, I have to take at least 30 mins read the manual so I know what to expect when I do my test.Plus it gives you a methodical sense of approach to deal with certain situation, the others is fuke.

erico2k2:

I think you are missing the point, if you go to a garage, you leave your car with them, they go straight to the manuals, this is the reason they can repair any car. The repair manual is very important as it contains various MUST ie torque settings. Angles and gradients., gives you expectant voltage from each wires and components you are meant to check work with a company where we service any machine with hydraulics, for each new crane or heavy lifter I go, I have to take at least 30 mins read the manual so I know what to expect when I do my test.Plus it gives you a methodical sense of approach to deal with certain situation, the others is fuke.

I once had a conversation with some whites, I discussed the reluctance of technicians to use factory repair manuals, and they said, a technician that refuses to use one is one who doesn't know how to use one!

A plane once crashed because they called a technician to fix a problem in the cockpit, he fixed the problem, it appears to him, he fixed the problem, but he did not follow factory specifications, and the plane crashed, a post-mortem of the incident revealed this.

Using a manual is not proof that the techy is daft...it is proof that he knows his limitations and wants to be the right thing as a matter of professional honor

Japan Airlines Flight 123

On August 12, 1985, suffered mechanical failures 12 minutes into the flight and 32 minutes later crashed into two ridges of Mount Takamagahara, Japan. A photograph taken from the ground some time later confirmed that the vertical stabilizer was missing. The aircraft was involved in a tail strike incident at Osaka International Airport on 2 June 1978, which damaged the aircraft’s rear pressure bulkhead.

The subsequent repair of the bulkhead did not conform to Boeing’s approved repair methods. Their procedure calls for one continuous double plate with three rows of rivets to reinforce the damaged bulkhead, but the Boeing technicians fixing the aircraft used two separate double plates, one with two rows of rivets and one with only one row. This reduced the part’s resistance to metal fatigue by 70%. When the bulkhead gave way, the resulting explosive decompression ruptured the lines of all four hydraulic systems. With the aircraft’s control surfaces disabled, the aircraft became uncontrollable. The root cause of the accident again was a maintenance related failure.

The repair instruction was simple. A splice plate needed to be inserted into a joint section of the upper and lower domes of the bulkhead. They all needed to be riveted. But for some reason, the service team used a splice plate that was slimmer than designated, covering the gap with a separate filler, which led to a lack of structural integrity.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/08/11/national/history/u-s-leaked-crucial-boeing-repair-flaw-led-1985-jal-jet-crash-ex-officials/#.W0myoLhBGC8

Aeroperú Flight 603

Shortly after takeoff from Jorge Chavez international airport in Peru, Aeroperú Flight 603, the airliner crew realized that their basic flight instruments were giving erratic and contradicting readings. With the lack of reliable basic flight instruments, constant contradictory warnings from the aircraft’s flight computer (some of which were valid and some of which were not), and believing that they were at a safe altitude, the pilots declared an emergency and turned to head back to the airport. However, the pilots lost track of their location and altitude and crashed into the ocean, killing all on board. The cause of the instrument failure was a maintenance worker’s failure to remove duct tape covering the static ports installed during a routine wash necessary to provide correct instrument data to the cockpit. The static ports are critical to the operation of virtually all of those flight instruments that provide basic aerodynamic data such as airspeed, altitude and vertical speed, not only to the pilots but also to the aircraft’s computers, which provide additional functions such as warnings when flight characteristics approach dangerous levels.

Chalk’s Flight 101

Aircraft Maintenance, Chalk's Flight 101 looses wingOn Dec. 19 2005, Chalk’s Flight 101 lost its right wing shortly after takeoff and plunged into a shipping channel off Miami beach, Florida. The plane, which burst into flames, was captured on video during its final moments. Everyone on board was killed, including three infants. The cause of the accident was a metal fatigue failure in the right wing initiated by a crack. The crack had been detected and seemingly repaired earlier by the maintenance team, but the repair was eventually to prove ineffective. The safety board, in its final report on the probable cause of the crash, noted numerous maintenance-related problems on the plane and another company aircraft, raising questions about Chalk Ocean’s maintenance practices. The NTSB also found evidence of improper repairs and undocumented maintenance. After the accident, the remaining fleet were found to be suffering from severe corrosion with many showing signs of sub-standard repair during maintenance.

American Airlines flight 191

CMMS Software has checks in place to prevent cutting corners on preventive and breakdown maintenance. American Airlines flight 191, a DC-10, crashed moments after takeoff from O’Hare Int Airport in Chicago. Moments earlier, while speeding down the runway, engine number 1 and pylon structure separated from the wing, flipped over the top and fell to the runway. The airplane took off but shortly after take off, the aircraft rolled left and the nose pitched down before crashing in a nearby field. The root cause of the accident was maintenance-induced damage leading to the separation of the no.1 engine and pylon assembly procedures which led to failure of the pylon structure. The mounting for the pylon had been damaged during routine maintenance performed 8 week previous.

American Airlines, without the approval of the aircraft manufacturer McDonnell Douglas remove the engine-pylon as one unit during an engine change using a forklift. The airline maintenance team modified the recommended engine and pylon replacement procedure to save man hours and get the job done quicker.

The pylon, the rigging holding the engine onto the wing, had been damaged during the makeshift maintenance procedure.

AutoTechNG:


I once had a conversation with some whites, I discussed the reluctance of technicians to use factory repair manuals, and they said, a technician that refuses to use one is one who doesn't know how to use one!

A plane once crashed because they called a technician to fix a problem in the cockpit, he fixed the problem, it appears to him, he fixed the problem, but he did not follow factory specifications, and the plane crashed, a post-mortem of the incident revealed this.

Using a manual is not proof that the techy is daft...it is proof that he knows his limitations and wants to be the right thing as a matter of professional honor

GBAM, that's it.
If we go to the vids of Car plants, one can see the robot torqueing the engines and other bits, they all have settings and these are inclusive in the manuals which are free to get on line. Anyway, Nigerians are learning. If one owns a car and do not know what kind of fluids you need, then you are in deep pooo.
PS, that Automotive centre you talked about in Lagos, I mean the one you called computerized lol do they do tyre tracking and do they have laser car alignment?

tensazangetsu20:


Even the dealerships use the manuals which any Tom dick and Harry can access

https://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesandservices/porscheservice/vehicleinformation/freeworkshops/

By basic engineering knowledge, I mean having extended knowledge of workshop tools and ability to read and understand wiring diagrams which any first year engineering student can do

First year engineering student in Nigeria Uni that is still doing PHY, MTH, CHE and GES?
Bros calm down, just because you do something and it works does not mean you did it correctly or as it should.
Certifications are available for a reason

thebigkendo:


First year engineering student in Nigeria Uni that is still doing PHY, MTH, CHE and GES?
Bros calm down, just because you do something and it works does not mean you did it correctly or as it should.
Certifications are available for a reason

I schooled in Ghana and I was taught how to read wiring diagrams in my first year. Applied electricity and circuit theory. I applied this knowledge extensively when I did my internships. Wiring diagrams for cars are the easiest among all machineries. It's way more complex with ships.

thebigkendo:


First year engineering student in Nigeria Uni that is still doing PHY, MTH, CHE and GES?
Bros calm down, just because you do something and it works does not mean you did it correctly or as it should.
Certifications are available for a reason

How many dealer technicians in Nigeria are certified?

tensazangetsu20:

I schooled in Ghana and I was taught how to read wiring diagrams in my first year. Applied electricity and circuit theory. I applied this knowledge extensively when I did my internships. Wiring diagrams for cars are the easiest among all machineries. It's way more complex with ships.

Now I know why you can do what you do....

Could you share the curriculum for applied electricity and circuit theory...so we can compare with the curriculum for first year engineering students in Nigeria? And draw conclusions?

Which part of engineering did you major in?

tensazangetsu20:


Funny enough anyone with a basic knowledge of cars and how engines work can easily pass the ASE exams. Seen some of the questions online and they aren't anything spectacular.

Entry-level certification I said....not master level certification...that said I think having a lowest common denominator makes sense

America had Nigeria's problems, when the government wanted to step in to regulate, the industry said, we will set standards and we will enforce them, government hands-off, and it worked for them

They combine those with internships for a well-rounded experience

AutoElectNG:

Now I know why you can do what you do....

Could you share the curriculum for applied electricity and circuit theory...so we can compare with the curriculum for first year engineering students in Nigeria? And draw conclusions?

Which part of engineering did you major in?

Abeg o . I am also here to learn like everyone else. I did marine engineering but I started to get into cars in my final year in the university. I read some basic books like auto repair for dummies and how automobile engines work. I also subscribed to a lot of YouTube car channels chrisfix and Ericthecarguy are my top favourites. I wanted to work with cars when I got back to Nigeria. Applied to a lot of big auto workshops here to work for free and got nothing. Fortunately, my mom drives a problematic car so I downloaded her car manual online and went from changing oil to opening up the cylinder head all with the instructions from the manual. I have out her car up to spec with just the manual instructions. For what we learnt, we just started with basic circuitry stuff like signs and what they mean, we had a workshop practice for the course where we worked with circuits connected to a computer. Once we got the basics, we moved on to calculations.

tensazangetsu20:

Abeg o . I am also here to learn like everyone else. I did marine engineering but I started to get into cars in my final year in the university. I read some basic books like auto repair for dummies and how automobile engines work. I also subscribed to a lot of YouTube car channels chrisfix and Ericthecarguy are my top favourites. I wanted to work with cars when I got back to Nigeria. Applied to a lot of big auto workshops here to work for free and got nothing. Fortunately, my mom drives a problematic car so I downloaded her car manual online and went from changing oil to opening up the cylinder head all with the instructions from the manual. I have out her car up to spec with just the manual instructions. For what we learnt, we just started with basic circuitry stuff like signs and what they mean, we had a workshop practice for the course where we worked with circuits connected to a computer. Once we got the basics, we moved on to calculations.

Even if you want to work for free, there is the condition you must be willing to accept

6 months minimum term

8am to 5pm for 5 or 6 days a week must be devoted to them

or they will never accept you

AutoElectNG:


Even if you want to work for free, there is the condition you must be willing to accept

6 months minimum term

8am to 5pm for 5 or 6 days a week must be devoted to them

or they will never accept you

I was rather to even work 24 hours a day. They didn't accept. I was even the ones making the calls. Some of them even wanted me to pay to come and work. One of the workshops I went to asked me for 400k for 6 months.

tensazangetsu20:

I was rather to even work 24 hours a day. They didn't accept. I was even the ones making the calls. Some of them even wanted me to pay to come and work. One of the workshops I went to asked me for 400k for 6 months.

Funny....in America, they even arrange paid internships for those students

AutoElectNG:


Funny....in America, they even arrange paid internships for those students

In Nigeria, everything is different. That's why I laugh when I see some naive people telling graduates to do volunteer work. Here in Nigeria, no one even wants to employ you to work for free. Thank God for the Internet. Anyone can learn anything nowadays.

sultaan:


Why will anyone believe that story

what he said there is the truth, my friends younger brother who finished from gtc onitsha five years ago had an encounter recently, he’s good with conduit wiring and house hold electrical engineering works. He has worked for banks,hotels and other multinationals with just secondary school education. They called him for wiring work in one of these companies in Lagos, while he was doing his job, a Japanese manufacturing equipment was being installed in the said company with a Japanese technician who flew in from Tokyo. Why they were installing it, by accident they damaged the powering system, the Japanese guy tried everything within the book to repair that machine to no avail,he was cofused that he had to call his home company about the damage, they instructed him to put the machine back in the container so that it can be shipped back to Japan . My friends kid bro was told to stop work, he demanded to know why and was told that about the damage to the machine , he demanded to see it, saw the extent of the damage, told the manager that he can repair it and they started laughing at him, he requested for some amount of money with which he want down to Alaba, bought some components, returned back fixed it did some electrical abracadabra, on the machine and it started working, the Japanese was marveled by what he did, was asking him which school abroad did he graduate from.........bottom line, dude is in Japan now, never underestimate the talent we have here in Nigeria

Triniti:
what he said there is the truth, my friends younger brother who finished from gtc onitsha five years ago had an encounter recently, he’s good with conduit wiring and house hold electrical engineering works. He has worked for banks,hotels and other multinationals with just secondary school education. They called him for wiring work in one of these companies in Lagos, while he was doing his job, a Japanese manufacturing equipment was being installed in the said company with a Japanese technician who flew in from Tokyo. Why they were installing it, by accident they damaged the powering system, the Japanese guy tried everything within the book to repair that machine to no avail,he was cofused that he had to call his home company about the damage, they instructed him to put the machine back in the container so that it can be shipped back to Japan . My friends kid bro was told to stop work, he demanded to know why and was told that about the damage to the machine , he demanded to see it, saw the extent of the damage, told the manager that he can repair it and they started laughing at him, he requested for some amount of money with which he want down to Alaba, bought some components, returned back fixed it did some electrical abracadabra, on the machine and it started working, the Japanese was marveled by what he did, was asking him which school abroad did he graduate from.........bottom line, dude is in Japan now, never underestimate the talent we have here in Nigeria

Happy to hear this story....confirms what I have seen severally....forget the disrespect shown to Kazeems here, in America what happened was that those who knew better organized classes for those who knew less and this started to remedy the gap between those who knew new technology and those schooled in old technology

AutoTechNG:


Happy to hear this story....confirms what I have seen severally....forget the disrespect shown to Kazeems here, in America what happened was that those who knew better organized classes for those who knew less and this started to remedy the gap between those who knew new technology and those schooled in old technology

We just need training with the proper settings to harness our potentials. The brain, will and the man power is here

Inception:


I agree with him.

Take a look at most 'gurus' on this forum( Ikenna351, and especially kashif) and you will see that he has said the truth.

Reading manuals is good, very good, but nothing beats hands-on, and learning from experts. There are myriad of issues the factory manual can't direct you on how to solve. Tough electrical issues for instance are not addressed by FMs. FMs also attend to card level maintenance, and not component level maintenance. Hence you will be seeing "If X, then replace Y assembly.

FMs have numerous limitations, but will help in comprehensive layouts.

And Yes, dealership solution can come from a tree shed chap. It doesn't matter if one believes it or not.

Kashif:


Reading manuals is good, very good, but nothing beats hands-on, and learning from experts. [b]There are myriad of issues the factory manual can't direct you on how to solve. [/b]Tough electrical issues for instance are not addressed by FMs. FMs also attend to card level maintenance, and not component level maintenance. Hence you will be seeing "If X, then replace Y assembly.

FMs have numerous limitations, but will help in comprehensive layouts.

I don't know about others but Mercedes factory manuals are bae. It contains the repair procedures and diagnosis for every system. Time estimates for each job. Data codes for every damage code and what they mean and what you are meant to do if you encounter them. It also has videos that will show you how to do each job in addition to pictures.

Kashif:


Reading manuals is good, very good, but nothing beats hands-on, and learning from experts. [b]There are myriad of issues the factory manual can't direct you on how to solve. [/b]Tough electrical issues for instance are not addressed by FMs. FMs also attend to card level maintenance, and not component level maintenance. Hence you will be seeing "If X, then replace Y assembly.

FMs have numerous limitations, but will help in comprehensive layouts.

I don't know about others but Mercedes factory manuals are bae. It contains the repair procedures and diagnosis for every system. Time estimates for each job. Data codes for every damage code and what they mean and what you are meant to do if you encounter them. It also has videos that will show you how to do each job in addition to pictures. The only downside it costs over 5 million to access yearly

I used factory manuals without an education in automotive technology.

I also used factory manuals after a comprehensive education in automotive technology.

The difference is as clear as night and day.

In the first, you follow instructions blindly.

In the second case, you understand how the technology works and why something should be tested and why the results are what they should be.

In the first case, if you come across any anomaly, not anticipated by the manual, you are stumped.

In the second case, if you come across any anomaly, you know what information to collect and share with other experts to help solve the problem. That includes if the recommendation is in your best interests and that of your client or in the best interests of the bank balance of the manufacturer.

Should you use factory manuals? But just like you need more than a professional level obd ii scan tool to solve problems, you may need some additional education to ensure you know how things work, when to follow the manual as is, when to deviate.

Hope that helps.....good repair requires references to engineering specifications and those can only be found, you guessed right the factory manual

The factory service manuals are targeted at professionals not DIYs

There is so much information that goes into the decisions made by a professional that is not available to the DIYs, and that is something you must bear in mind when using a service manual as a DIY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN95GLDvGBc

An automotive technician training is worth its weight in gold, and the value of that must never ever be discounted!

Another issue or clarification

A factory manual will never teach you how to repair a bad engine or a bad transmission.

It will give you an exploded view of both...however the intricacies of repairing both demand or require specialized training dedicated specifically to that....I guess that is what is meant by card level versus component level repairs

While doing some research into my past posts, I found this, which I consider extremely relevant to the discussion at hand

Triniti:
We just need training with the proper settings to harness our potentials. The brain, will and the man power is here

iro
Thank you for sharing this.

It baffles me that we Nigerians judge ourselves based on our work environment instead of intellectual capacity.

From this discussion because the guy does not run an ultramodern workshop simply means he is no good at fixing a porsche.

The guy might not have the finances to set one up and because of this we have slaughtered his competence.

We cant grow as a country if we keep downgrading ourselves.