DeSepiero:


Perhaps man can't sufficiently convince fellow man (atheist) with evidence that God exists.
How about God convincing man?
Cc: johnydon22

johnydon22:


This could work for an interventionist God ..lol

DeSepiero:


Yes. What do you say winner01?

Talking about interventionist God, can it be correctly argued that God isn't interventionist?

dalaman:


So the reason why you believe in God is because you do not know how the universe came into being?

As an atheist I do not know how the universe came about. Cam you use God alone and objectively explain to me how the universe cane about?

winner01:
There is no universally agreed kind of evidence that can be expected in this case. The replies of atheists to your thread prove this. Each person pointed out which experience will convince him of Gods existence. Like I explained earlier, experiences are very fluid and relative. No matter what evidence is experienced, it will remain inadequate as long as it's subjective. As for all seekers, I consider them inadequate. This should be the attitude of true learners.

dalaman:
I've noticed that the Christians here don't want to provide any evidence to show that their God exist, they know very well that their God has no evidence to show that it exist so they keep pushing their God to the relm of the unknown by saying that God is supernatural and as such only supernatural evidence will prove that he doesn't exist. Firstly this is totally false because they have never provided any supernatural evidence that supports their God in anyway at all.

Non of them can give you a SINGLE example of a supernatural event or occurrence, all they can do is keep throwing the word around but when asked to substantiate they'll start blabbing.

johnydon22:
This means every possible evidence that may be presented to prove God will be logically contingent?

winner01:
In most cases, man can't sufficiently convince man, man can only try to point man in the direction of more compelling evidence. The journey to such knowledge's are personal, very personal.

For you to ask if God can convince man:
1. You'd have to adequately define your idea of conviction. I noted this earlier in the Op and asked "what if our genes are tweaked to increase a predisposition to believe in Supreme beings?"
2. You'd have to assume that such a God wants to compel man to consider his convictions if there are already any. Freewill then comes into the question

I think Christians already consider the Biblical God an interventionist God but the extent isn't clearly defined.

dalaman:


As an atheist I do not know how the universe came about. Cam you use God alone and objectively explain to me how the universe cane about?

OkaiCorne:


If you do not know how the universe came into being? Then how can you be certain God does not exist?

I do not know how exactly the universe came to be...but at the very least, I know the universe did not appear out of nothing.

Also, life cannot come out of nothing without a Creator involved.


But hey, can science and logic disprove that?

ScienceWatch:
You falsely claim that you don't know how the ............ You can only claim there is No-god because you know how the universe came into existence.

The foundations for your arrival at a correct answer to your own questions concerning God and the universe can found in your own Atheist bible fondly known as
The Atheists Training Manual shared here earlier.
For your convenience, here are a few lessons taken from your Atheists bible;

1. Make sure your main focus is on Christians. You can 'touch' on other groups to appear even-handed, but ensure you are careful to make Christians your constant target; you don't want to get killed in a Jihad, do you? So only 'mention' the others such as Islam but then say that there is no difference between radical Muslims and 'fundamentalist' Christians.

2. Remember that you are looking for faults in other religions (Christians) not trying to defend yours so do not try to prove atheism! Remember, it's much easier to destroy than build up.

3. When referring to atheists always use power-filled terms like 'intelligent, educated, thinkers, strong minded and independent.'

4. Ensure you call Christians childish degrading names like, pathetic air-heads, pointless God-bother-er's, deluded bible kissers and insult them with statements which include the terms like ignorant, clueless, uneducated. The goal here is to provoke and frustrate the Christian to the point they become angry, then, you can then claim they are a hypocrite for not being 'loving like Jesus.'

dalaman:

When I say God I am talking about Yahweh the God of christian theism. Thats the God that I was indoctrinated with as a child. I know such a God does NOT exist because we have how he said he created the universe written inside the bible. The universe as we know was NOT created according to the nonsense that was written inside the book of Genesis. The Genesis account is no different from the Yoruba creation mythology. I might not know what 52525727272 × 5162792525266 is but what I know for sure is that the answer can never be 1000.

I might not know how the universe came about but I know for sure that the Genesis creation account is not how the universe we live in came about. That creation mythology was written by ancient people that know nothing about the universe or how it functions.

How did you know that life came about as a result of a single entity called God?

Aren't you just projecting your assumptions on others? How did you know that only a single creator was involved?

dalaman:



Very empty talk, if God as defined and advertised by you guys wants people to know about him then the issue of a person's idea of conviction will not even rise because God being all knowing and all mighty will know exactly what it will take to convince every and all humans. Remember you are talking about an alleged being with unlimited abilities that wants to be in a relationship with humans to the extent that he killed himself for them accordingto the story. There is nothing like freewill since according to the bible some where created and chosen by him even before the earth was formed. The word free will does not even appear in the bible so let's just put and end to this copout Christians use to keep lying to themselves.



The bible clearly states and explains the level of its God intervention in the life of the Christian.

Here is what Jesus said according to the bible.

"Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

According to the bible Jesus was a very great miracle worker that did so many wonderful and incredible work. The bible even says that if all the works he did were to be recorded all the book in the world at that time will not be able to take it.

Jesus then PROMISED those of you that believe in him the ability to do greater things than he did and also PSOMISED YOU that what ever you ask in his name he will do it.

If this is true then you winner01 should be able to heal amputees, feed starving children with 5 fish and few pieces of bread, walk on water, raise the dead, heal people with cancer and other terminal illnesses at will, pass through walls etc because Jesus promised you that and clearly stated that he will always intervene when you pray in his name as a believer in him.

The fact thathat you can't do any of this things promised you despite you very sincere beliefs shows that the promise is false and you believe in a lie. But knowing the kind of person that you are you won't want to accept that you have been lied to and you are following lies, you'll prefer to tell us why atheist won't accept evidence for a God when the evidence to show that your God is a made up lie lies right in your presence.

OkaiCorne:


Oh it's clearer now. You have issues seeing God through the Jewish/Christian lenses...

dalaman:


That's the only idea of God that I know and believed to be real all my life.

OkaiCorne:


Apparently, religion has its flaws in describing who God is, and that's what the atheists are latching on.

However, at the end of the day, it takes a leap of faith to study the workings of the universe and still conclude that there is no God... or that all of it is an accident or sheer coincidence...

OkaiCorne:


Mehn...I understand where you are coming from.
God has no religion, and you need no religion to find God.

dalaman:


Are you a deist?

OkaiCorne:


Honestly, I don't know what deism about. So I can't give a conclusive answer on that.

johnydon22:
Fair enough. But given the technology today, don't you think such a video can easily be fabricated?

OkaiCorne:


If you do not know how the universe came into being? Then how can you be certain God does not exist?

I do not know how exactly the universe came to be...but at the very least, I know the universe did not appear out of nothing.

Also, life cannot come out of nothing without a Creator involved.


But hey, can science and logic disprove that?

darkchild64:


This your argument is heavily flawed,if the universe needed a creator,then the creator needed creator x,creator x needed creator x + 1,creator x + 1 needed creator x + 2 and it goes on and on,look what we are saying is this,there are a million theories that one can make up to explain how the universe came to be at the end so the only one we believe is the one that presents sufficient evidence and reason,even if you say that there is someone "God" who created the universe,fine but that is all that u knw about the "God" that he created the universe,what else do you know,do tou know if he is still alive or dead,do you know what nature he possesses, do you know if he cares about humans or not,do you know if he created other galaxies besides ours where life exists,do you know if other life forms more superior than him exists,do you even know if he is qualified to be described as a "being",even if a someone or something was responsible for the creation of the universe which is the natural answer a lot of us would want to give,since we don't want to do any research and think what makes you think that that somwone or something is the person you know as " God* ?

OkaiCorne:


If you do not know how the universe came into being? Then how can you be certain God does not exist?

I do not know how exactly the universe came to be...but at the very least, I know the universe did not appear out of nothing.

Also, life cannot come out of nothing without a Creator involved.


But hey, can science and logic disprove that?

dalaman:
I've noticed that the Christians here don't want to provide any evidence to show that their God exist, they know very well that their God has no evidence to show that it exist so they keep pushing their God to the relm of the unknown by saying that God is supernatural and as such only supernatural evidence will prove that he doesn't exist. Firstly this is totally false because they have never provided any supernatural evidence that supports their God in anyway at all.

Non of them can give you a SINGLE example of a supernatural event or occurrence, all they can do is keep throwing the word around but when asked to substantiate they'll start blabbing.

OkaiCorne:


If you do not know how the universe came into being? Then how can you be certain God does not exist?

I do not know how exactly the universe came to be...but at the very least, I know the universe did not appear out of nothing.

Also, life cannot come out of nothing without a Creator involved.


But hey, can science and logic disprove that?

winner01:


I think Christians already consider the Biblical God an interventionist God but the extent isn't clearly defined.


Aren't there levels to intervention?

darkchild64:


Well if that is what u think then probably the only option is to witness it live,that won't be such a bad idea

OkaiCorne:


What's the basis for your argument? That the universe was created out of nothing?

If Science can conclude that energy can neither be created nor destroyed... and you are fine with that...

Then how can we also sufficiently prove that God was created?

Even with all the collective knowledge man has, there's a lot yet unknown to sufficiently and convincingly argue away the existence of God.

You know how logic works...you need all the facts on ground before concluding on a subject matter.

If you can come up with a logical argument on how the universe or life generally came out of absolutely nothing...then you have a strong case on ground. Till then...

johnydon22:


Argumentum ad ignoranum. This doesn't really imply or prove God.

It is just you replacing thr mystery your heart yearns to understand with another and even bigger mystery.

johnydon22:


I'm not sure the model we derive our answers from goes the way you make it be.

You first assume up an answer

Then assume it must be true

Then insist in order to discard this idea, absolute knowledge must be achieved.

That actually is nonsense.

You don't assume up an answer that must be true before you study.

And every speculation is not assumed to be true becauss of the inadequacy of knowledge.

Your argument is quite weird

OkaiCorne:


I asked a simple question and you haven't addressed it in anyway.

Do you have any example or logic or scientific theory that proves life, matter and the universe at large came out of nothing...

Is it logical to assume a system exists without a designer behind it?

Certain assumptions need not be far fetched.

OkaiCorne:


Can life be created out of nothing?

johnydon22:
I do not know thus Argumentum ad ignorantum doesn't really imply or prove God.