tintingz:
Olorun is ruler of heaven, Olodumare the Creator while Olofi is like the mediator, these three attributes works as one.

Now since you claim the Orishas can't do anything to save our forefathers from the colonials, what was Olodumare doing?

I never claim such. It shows that you did not read the op just like the other dude who posted in capital letter.

Now go back to the op. Read and digest it for FSM sake.

vaxx:
I never claim such. It shows that you did not read the op just like the other dude who posted in capital letter.

Now go back to the op. Read and digest for Fsm sake.

Your premises is trying to limit the powers of the orishas, now that it appears like that, what was Olodumare the creator doing to save the yorubas from the white colonials?

tintingz:
Your premises is trying to limit the powers of the orishas, now that it appears like that, what was Olodumare the creator doing to save the yorubas from the white colonials?

false . You still don't read the op or you don't understand the argument. Go back again and read with basic and open mind. Call the attention of anyone to simplify it for you. Frank317 or budaatum may help you out.

vaxx:
false . You still don't read the op or you don't understand the argument. Go back again and read with basic and open mind. Call the attention of anyone to simplify it for you. Frank317 or budaatum may help you out.

You're just limiting the Gods and given excuses.

Like I said the statement or belief that "God help those who help themselves" is lame. When are we going to know when the Gods are helping, when do we know when the Gods fail?

Are you saying our forefathers didn't do anything to protect their lands and people?

tintingz:
You're just limiting the Gods and given excuses.

Like I said the statement or belief that "God help those who help themselves" is lame. When are we going to know when the Gods are helping, when do we know when the Gods fail?

Are you saying our forefathers didn't do anything to protect their lands and people?

when you understand the op. I shall continue.

The op is quite disappointing coming from vaax. "GOD helps those who help themselves" i believe is a remedy to and for those fundamentalist that think God is responsible for every single event, success, failure etc in a persons life.

kkins25:
The op is quite disappointing coming from vaax. "GOD helps those who help themselves" i believe is a remedy to and for those fundamentalist that think God is responsible for every single event, success, failure etc in a persons life.

This is because you yourself fail to understand the proverb. And translating it literally is also disappointing since the phrase does not have a direct scriptural backing.

A Wikipedia page on the subject is presented and it will be clever of you to give it a look instead of thinking or believing unnecessary.

vaxx:
I never claim such. It shows that you did not read the op just like the other dude who posted in capital letter.

Now go back to the op. Read and digest it for FSM sake.

Lol. Atheists are embarrassing FSM.

ScienceWatch:
Lol. Atheists are embarrassing FSM.

lol. Actually not all of them. Some are good evangelist . Promoting the gospel of FSM accordingly.

"God helps those who help themselves" and "faith without works is dead" are the two most thoughtless statements given by idiots and/or crooked men to absolve god of any blame and responsibilities when it comes to unanswered prayers, failure and tragedy. How can an organism with a well developed brain posit that a tribe did nothing to help themselves? Even if a few were the only ones willing to fight, why weren't the gods behind them to eliminate the black traitors and white monsters? Oh, the gods are the side with more numbers and sophisticated weapons?

People who say "God helps does who help themselves" and "faith without works is dead" are either dubious or lack the IQ to effectively spot cause and effect with two or more given factors to consider. Vaxx, I am disappointed in you. This is what I would have expected from Oga butterfly.

Martinez19:
"God helps those who help themselves" and "faith without works is dead" are the two most thoughtless statements given by idiots and/or crooked men to absolve god of any blame and responsibilities when it comes to unanswered prayers, failure and tragedy. How can an organism with a well developed brain posit that a tribe did nothing to help themselves? Even if a few were the only ones willing to fight, why weren't the gods behind them to eliminate the black traitors and white monsters? Oh, the gods are the side with more numbers and sophisticated weapons?

People who say "God helps does who help themselves" and "faith without works is dead" are either dubious or lack the IQ to effectively spot cause and effect with two or more given factors to consider. Vaxx, I am disappointed in you. This is what I would have expected from Oga butterfly.

Do you follow the op? My guess is NO.


Maybe you should read the op and digest the content so you can absorb the meaning...

vaxx:

Do you follow the op? My guess is NO.


Maybe you should read the op and digest the content so you can absorb the meaning...

vaxx:
Eshu is basically the symbolical representation of the the decision and indicision you made at the crossroad. It is not an angel or unviable personality seeting somewhere telling you to do what and not. It is you in action.it is you making the decision..

[
It is your choice that made it happen, the decision you made .so Slavery was a Choice? You decided to be disunited so you can be enslaved.

As I said earlier , the Eshu, which is the deification of choice, complicity, decision, indecision, CONSEQUENCE is symbolical representation. .


For you to know it is your choice, even after 400 years, despite so many of us, that we are still enslaved suggests it is a choice we began making.

This is no different than saying that while it is horrible that you had an abusive childhood, if as a 40 year old you are still blaming your life on that childhood, it is because of the bad choices you are continually making, not the abusive childhood. There's a point where you are responsible for your condition, no matter what happened to you beforehand. So this is what the philosophy of eshu symbolise.

So eshu is your decisions AND indecisions. You can only be oppressed when you (as a people) reject your role in your own choices in favor of being an eternal victim.

As we have rejected our own spiritual concept of Eshu (responsibility to choices) who stands at the crossroads where we make decisions, the African race has become obsessed with being a victim to the point that it has stagnated us from ever becoming free.

Thank you. Brilliantly explained.

vaxx:
Do you follow the op? My guess is NO.


Maybe you should read the op and digest the content so you can absorb the meaning...

He does not have the mental ability to understand the concepts in the op.

Martinez19:
". How can an organism with a well developed brain posit that a tribe did nothing to help themselves? Even if a few were the only ones willing to fight, why weren't the gods behind them to eliminate the black traitors and white monsters? Oh, the gods are the side with more numbers and sophisticated weapons?

I found this worthy to reply because i have been seeing a lot of you repeating the same thing.

Real African spirituality is not limited to mysticism only .It goes far beyond that . It involves t how to deal with the real world with real responses. Therefore, real spiritual practice cannot be devoid of appropriate responses to social issues. We only appear to have no "choice" as you say, because it is not about chosing spookism while living the practicality of our true indigenous spirituality.


And likewise let me educate you about the origin of slavery you are probably not aware of .

Slavery was about Economics, Greed and Power amongst the Monarchs of Africa which had a robust civilization in the beginning then.

Slavery is the African Holocaust and is present in the 21st Century. EVEN the creating of Illegal Slave Trade Act by Wilberforce did not stop the Slave Trade and Africans were being kidnapped and stolen with the assistance of monarch and cheif . Disunity set in among the kings and chief due to economic value and greed.

ScienceWatch:
He does not have the mental ability to understand the concepts in the op.

The problem is that. He is following the same thought of those who think alike like him.

He never read the op. He only jump into the thread and conclude base on what the people who think like him says and not what the op says.

I am sure he never read the discussion between me and Frank and that of Buda.

lol... sciencewatch is now a traditionalist.... just as long as u believe in the word called called. but when he goes to church he will singe... olodumare power powerless power

vaxx:
The problem is that. He is following the same thought of those who think alike like him.

He never read the op. He only jump into the thread and conclude base on what the people who think like him says and not what the op says.

I am sure he never read it.

Yes he reminds me of criminal gangs, they operate from the same principle.
His weak attempts at using the distorted atheists logic is embarrassing to FSM.

vaxx:
I found this worthy to reply because i have been seeing a lot of you repeating the same thing.

Real African spirituality is not limited to mysticism only .It goes far beyond that . It involves t how to deal with the real world with real responses. Therefore, real spiritual practice cannot be devoid of appropriate responses to social issues. We only appear to have no "choice" as you say, because it is not about chosing spookism while living the practicality of our true indigenous spirituality.


And likewise let me educate you about the origin of slavery you are probably not aware of .

Slavery was about Economics, Greed and Power amongst the Monarchs of Africa which had a robust civilization in the beginning then.

Slavery is the African Holocaust and is present in the 21st Century. EVEN the creating of Illegal Slave Trade Act by Wilberforce did not stop the Slave Trade and Africans were being kidnapped and stolen whith the assistance of monarch and cheif . Disunity set in among the kings and chief due to economic value and greed.

It has been firmly established that the Gods don't favour cowards. You correctly say that, "
Real African spirituality is not limited to mysticism only .It goes far beyond that . It involves how to deal with the real world with real responses. "

THE GODS DONT FAVOUR COWARDS. ONE MUST DIE FOR TRUTH.

ScienceWatch:
Yes he reminds me of criminal gangs, they operate from the same principle.
His weak attempts at using the distorted atheists logic is embarrassing to FSM.

I thought as much. I am sure he never read. Just pick on point that suit him.but unfortunately he will not be able to stand the pressure when heated. I await him anyway. You know majorly most athiest love avoiding questions instead they prefer to be at the asking side. I will turn the table around if he decide to engage me.

ScienceWatch:
It has been firmly established that the Gods don't favour cowards. You correctly say that, "
Real African spirituality is not limited to mysticism only .It goes far beyond that . It involves how to deal with the real world with real responses. "

THE GODS DONT FAVOUR COWARDS. ONE MUST DIE FOR TRUTH.

He knows less of this.

vaxx:
I thought as much. I am sure he never read. Just pick on point that suit him.but unfortunately he will not be able to stand the pressure when heated. I await him anyway. You know majorly most athiest love avoiding questions instead they prefer to be at the asking side. I will turn the table around if he decide to engage me.

Correct sir. Asking questions and complaining is always easier than providing wholesome solutions to life's challenges.. Atheists are like beggars, all they do is ask.

vaxx:
I found this worthy to reply because i have been seeing a lot of you repeating the same thing.

Real African spirituality is not limited to mysticism only .It goes far beyond that . It involves t how to deal with the real world with real responses. Therefore, real spiritual practice cannot be devoid of appropriate responses to social issues. We only appear to have no "choice" as you say, because it is not about chosing spookism while living the practicality of our true indigenous spirituality.


And likewise let me educate you about the origin of slavery you are probably not aware of .

Slavery was about Economics, Greed and Power amongst the Monarchs of Africa which had a robust civilization in the beginning then.

Slavery is the African Holocaust and is present in the 21st Century. EVEN the creating of Illegal Slave Trade Act by Wilberforce did not stop the Slave Trade and Africans were being kidnapped and stolen with the assistance of monarch and cheif . Disunity set in among the kings and chief due to economic value and greed.

lol. I ask again why didn't the gods back the innocent and eliminate the greedy and treacherous blacks and white monsters?

Martinez19:
lol. I ask again why didn't the gods back the innocent and eliminate the greedy and treacherous blacks and white monsters?

slavery was already part of African system. It was already an institution. So nothing innocent about it.


Africa was grossly segmented into millions of micro-kingdoms that lived in constant hostility with each other. If a kingdom conquered another it could then sell away its populace into slavery and occupy the land. And give the thanks to the gods. So slavery is a choice that was promoted by Africans themselves. And nothing was attached to it like evil. In fact it's a way of showing your wealthy status and whom the gods favour. We have been selling and trading ourselves.

And likewise most of slave captured were either the prisoners of war and community outcasts like murderers, accursed persons and deviants. In igbo It is called osu. Which means it is part of our judiciary systems. Therefore it would have been a futile to fight back since capture rarely occurred en masse.

gods are not some extra being sitting in the sky or a ghost like creature. It is the power of olodumare living within you. So when you disallow this power to manifest in your life . You give chance to external agent to subjugate you.

Now my question?
Why do we still choose to be a slave now. Especially now that some us have been emacipated?

I am sure the name Martins is a Europoid name and this are the traditional name of the people who raped and enslaved your ancestors. Why do we actually still carry the slave-branding of our rapist slave master and then pass it on to our children!!! If that's not slave behavior what is? Should we still blame the gods here.

Nearly all Blacks today still chose to keep the culture of the people who raped and enslaved thier ancestors. We celebrate it with glory. No one is more obsessed with European luxuries than Blacks. If that is not slavery , what it is. Should we still blame the gods here.


I sometime don't know how you guys think.....

This picture depict the modern slavery. We are now willingly wished to enslaved ourselves without force. Should we still blame gods for these?

From the sacred holy scriptures of the Yoruba,
the Odu Ifa: Ogbe Rosun

B'o ba se wipe ti Ifa
l'a ba ngbo,
A ba pe bi ara iwaju ti pe.
B'o ba se wipe ti
Orunmila l'a ba n to lehin,
A ba dagba bi
ara igbahun-igbahun.

"If we would listen
to the teachings of Ifa,
we would endure
like our ancestors endured.
If we follow the teachings of Orunmila
we would become reverred elders
like the ancients."

I enjoy these type of posts.

Interesante.

ogyunging:
I enjoy these type of posts.

Interesante.

thanks. We are here to learn from each other. If there is anything you want to contribute or ask. Do not hestitate to do so..

vaxx:
This is because you yourself fail to understand the proverb. And translating it literally is also disappointing since the phrase does not have a direct scriptural backing.

A Wikipedia page on the subject is presented and it will be clever of you to give it a look instead of thinking or believing unnecessary.

you sir clearly didn't understand my own "proverb".At first one is told to "ask and it would be given", we've been made to believe that skydaddy is the one that would MIRACULOUSLY " make a way when seems to be no way". I dont need to visit the wiki page. I sure as hell understand what the phrase in question means, and clearly.
But do the typical Christian fellow who prays for 6hours straight, who dosent miss a single night vigil because he or she is hoping that the raffle-draw of God would show him luck..
Lets take my own mother for instance - she is church devoted. She does puts in thrice as much effort into church activities than she does to her business and she believes its going to church and serving God that would make her business boom.
Just yesterday one of her church member(an elder actually) prayed in our home and told me to serve God to avoid delay of my destiny(riches and wealth)

I keep asking myself, what the hell does serving God have to do with ones finances?
Hope you get my point sir?
There are rich and poor non Christians. So also are ther rich and poor Christians. There is absolutely no correlation between service to God and financial status of an individual. Dalaman, hopefullanlord, seun, Immorttal, timemachine, loj, iamgenius etc would agree with me when i say: Africa and arabia are all the proof i need to justify my statement... However im a seeker of truth nd open to your wisdom nd new understanding.

kkins25:

you sir clearly didn't understand my own "proverb".At first one is told to "ask and it would be given", we've been made to believe that skydaddy is the one that would MIRACULOUSLY " make a way when seems to be no way". I dont need to visit the wiki page. I sure as hell understand what the phrase in question means, and clearly.
But do the typical Christian fellow who prays for 6hours straight, who dosent miss a single night vigil because he or she is hoping that the raffle-draw of God would show him luck..
Lets take my own mother for instance - she is church devoted. She does puts in thrice as much effort into church activities than she does to her business and she believes its going to church and serving God that would make her business boom.
Just yesterday one of her church member(an elder actually) prayed in our home and told me to serve God to avoid delay of my destiny(riches and wealth)

I keep asking myself, what the hell does serving God have to do with ones finances?
Hope you get my point sir?
There are rich and poor non Christians. So also are ther rich and poor Christians. There is absolutely no correlation between service to God and financial status of an individual. Dalaman, hopefullanlord, seun, Immorttal, timemachine, loj, iamgenius etc would agree with me when i say: Africa and arabia are all the proof i need to justify my statement... However im a seeker of truth nd open to your wisdom nd new understanding.

Your views about the entire concept is very perfectly true.

There is no direct relationship between 'Finances' and 'Religious or Spiritual Life' with regards, to enabling the cashflow. The material life, is to enable one afford our requirement for physical survival, while the SPiritual Life is to remember our spiritual connection to divinity and upgrade our understanding of the Universe, so we can function better in it.

A religion, like Christianity, knows nothing about spirituality, they are just gamling with spiritual principles and getting lucky sometimes.

But yet, as you progress, you will come to a point that material and spiritual lives meet at a point on the curve of Life's wavelengths, where Sprituality meets materialism, but it will in now way mean that will wake up one day and there is a Sky Daddy up there that will materially pour dollars into your pocket, it does not happen that way.

The only way it happens is when you understand the principles of wave-collapse functions, when thought become things, when waves become particles by focus on intention, on the field and project your expectation during the wave-particulate phase node. The power of visualization seeks to do that, when we imprint our creative image, creative imagination of our desire on ether, sound current will record it and if properly done at the right Time and Space (location), you can basically draw customers to yourself, you can actually speak telepathically to people while they are on some brainwave frequence, better at night when they are asleep, at delta brainwaves, then you can elevate your brainwaves to Gamma, and project thoughts telepathically to mentally project your command to the subconscious of the person's mind.

It actually sounds occultic when you explain this in words, cos it is pure science, using Earth Frequency of 7.83 Hz, I can proof how this works and I have used it a couple of times to get people to approve some stuff for me without having to beg for it.

Churches can not do that, but it is possible. Telepathy is psychic telecommunication channel of frequencies outside the decibles outside the frequency range assigned to Human Beings, other entities have their frequencies. The real native shamans do these things, it is Pure Science, and I very surprise how they keep worshiping those entities. Those are just other beings within different frequency ranges that humans are numbed to.

Unrelated mostly, but might help someone. I got to leave now and let you guys enjoy your chats.

kkins25:

you sir clearly didn't understand my own "proverb".At first one is told to "ask and it would be given", we've been made to believe that skydaddy is the one that would MIRACULOUSLY " make a way when seems to be no way". I dont need to visit the wiki page. I sure as hell understand what the phrase in question means, and clearly.
But do the typical Christian fellow who prays for 6hours straight, who dosent miss a single night vigil because he or she is hoping that the raffle-draw of God would show him luck..
Lets take my own mother for instance - she is church devoted. She does puts in thrice as much effort into church activities than she does to her business and she believes its going to church and serving God that would make her business boom.
Just yesterday one of her church member(an elder actually) prayed in our home and told me to serve God to avoid delay of my destiny(riches and wealth)

I keep asking myself, what the hell does serving God have to do with ones finances?
Hope you get my point sir?
There are rich and poor non Christians. So also are ther rich and poor Christians. There is absolutely no correlation between service to God and financial status of an individual. Dalaman, hopefullanlord, seun, Immorttal, timemachine, loj, iamgenius etc would agree with me when i say: Africa and arabia are all the proof i need to justify my statement... However im a seeker of truth nd open to your wisdom nd new understanding.

This is clearly a thread that address African spirituality and not church or Christianity and i will appreciate it if you treat it that way.

Excerpt from the Odu Ifa, Ofun Rosu

"Ofun (Omo Obatala)
nfun ire ka.
Ofun ko pariwo.
Eniyan bi iru wonyi sowon laye.
Eni maa dasa
ki o wo ise orun.
Orun nile ola.
A difa f'awon eniyan."

"Ofun (a devotee of Obatala)
is spreading goodness everywhere.
Ofun does not brag about it.
People like this are rare in the world.
One who wants to do wonderful things
should mimic the ways of heaven.
Heaven is the home of honor.
This was the teaching of Ifa for humanity."


The only pillar that will suffice as a foundational support for a great building is your devotion to your race being the standard image of God. Mo juba Olodumaré.