blueAgent:



Its quite diffcult, but you can try your best and leave the rest for God.
there are lots of articles and sites on Catholic false doctrines you can send to him so he can read and research for himself.

thanks

MuttleyLaff:
"Mary, was the mother of incarnate Jesus only,
that is the son of God manifested in human flesh
and not the son, in His pre-incarneted form which is a spirit."
- blueAgent ©

Gggg102, is there anything incorrect in the above inverted commas blueAgent quote?
If not then, you see, we all agree with each other and are saying the same thing
Mary, is the mother of Jesus, the Son of God, however God as Spirit, has no mother

Gggg102:
the fact that he is seeing and admitting to the truth and at the same time denying it.
is the son of God no longer God?

no Catholic has and will ever say Mary is the mother of pre incarnate God.
so he is fighting a strawman.
God existed without a mother but choose to have a mother to accomplish his mission on earth.

he thinks being born by a person = that person created you or you never existed before the person gave birth to you

blueAgent:
The fact is there is no biblical prove to support your argument that Mary should be called mother of God,
why not maintain the accepted mother of Jesus.
Your Church is known for Blasphemy go and lookup sites that talks about your Church Satanic and pagan roots.

There must be a reason(s) for your strong opposition to Mary and obvious dislike of her being called the mother of God.
Is it because to your understanding Jesus isnt God?

Ubenedictus:
why not stick to one argument at a time.

I know you don't like the Catholic church and whatever she teaches but don't use your bias to judge every topic.

Jesus is God, whoever gave birth to him gave birth to God in human flesh.
she is the mother of God Incarnate.

Mary is a mere creature, created by Jesus yet he chose her to give birth to him.

Mary gave birth to her creator, her savior, her lord and her God, yes she did....she is the mother of God.

if you don't like Catholics saying it then maybe you can discuss it with a non Catholic like mutteylaff,
but whether you agree or not it is true,
to deny this is to DENY that Jesus is God

blueAgent:
Why not you and your Church stick to calling Mary mother of Jesus alone, if that is even relevant?

blueAgent:
The funny thing is all through the Bible Jesus never called Mary Mother
rather he used the expression Woman to address Mary.
exaltation of Mary to celebrity & godlike status was invented by your Church it is not scriptural.

Are you sure of the emboldened that the bible never called Mary Jesus' mother?

Exaltation of Mary to "celebrity" status was not invented by the church
Exaltation of Mary to "celebrity" status, is 110% scriptural

In fact, the exaltation of Mary to "celebrity" status isnt a church invention.
The "celebrity" status originated from angel Gabriel's Day 1 visitation.
Not just that, Mary, even, with her song, in Luke 1:48, predicted the "celebrity" status

Concerning the exaltation of Mary to "godlike" status, you will have to go into detail what you mean by this
and thereafter let's see what Ubenedictus and all make of it

And it came to pass, as he spoke these things,
a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said to him,
Blessed is the womb that bore you,
and the breasts which you have sucked.
(i.e. woman, in effect, is saying to Jesus, blessed is your mother)
- Luke 11:27

Jesus would have witnessed this "celebrity" status too, so many times, all over
and that's why, for posterity sake,
one of Jesus' firsthand experiences of the exaltation of Mary to "celebrity & godlike" status is historically recorded, as read in Luke 11:27 above

Ubenedictus:
that is pretty simple, we call her mother of Jesus because that is who she is,
we also call her mother of our savior because that is who she is,
we call her mother of our Lord and God because that is who she is
but we actually particularly use the later title because it is an implicit declaration that we believe in the divinity of Jesus,
it means clearly that I believe Jesus is God.

Lastly you ask about the relevance, I suggest you Read up on the nestorian heresy AKA Nestorianism,
that particular phrase means the church believes in the hypostatic union, the true identity of Jesus....
Those who deny is are the nestorians who divide the nature of Christ.

blueAgent:
Same false reference, show me Bible verses not worthless books written by men without evil motives.

Ubenedictus:
I didn't show you any books written by men, please don't accuse me of what I haven't done.
Jesus is God John 1:1
some one gave birth to him Luke 2

that person gave birth to God.

the fact that you disagree doesn't make is untrue.

blueAgent:
Then show me where it is written that Mary is mother of God.

blueAgent, will:
1/ Showing you, where, in the bible, Mary is called mother of Jesus
2/ and show you, with scripture again, that, if same Jesus, is God, then, Mary is mother of God, appease you?

Ubenedictus:
taking a jab at Catholics can be a good past time
but at least one shouldn't do it until after fully considering the issue

Concerning the exaltation of Mary to "godlike" status blueAgent criticism,
let's look forward to the detail blueAgent will go into that explains what he means with that "godlike" status stamp
and thereafter see what you Ubenedictus and all make of his so-called stated "godlike" status of Mary

Ubenedictus:
Your username is pretty confusing, I'll try and correct myself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFAQ2-L5JrY
Seems you didnt, as a kid, grow up, watch Dick Dastardly and his sidekick, Muttley, known best for his mischievous wheezing laughs.
If you did Ubenedictus, you would find the username, MuttleyLaff, not at all pretty confusing.

blueAgent:



Same word play.

Same truth.

johnhood:
There are many wrong teachings in catholic church.
Believe me many....

Wrong in your opinion.

UbiPetrus:
Wrong in your opinion.

Not just in my opinion the evidence are there.

Aizenosa:
Protestant you are loosing this one again, don't give up you can do it

You started strongly and just 5 post as rebuffs ur foundations are shaking and u all running scattered.

Anyway the truth will always prevail so try and seek for it always.

And the truth is that Mary is lucifer., the light bearer.. Since jesus is the light...
Ask your parish priest.. Tomorrow after Mass,
I know, because I am a legionary... Took my vows in 1997,
Health of the sick: pray for us
Morning star: pray for us.. Etc

ldzehnle..com/2016/09/mary-true-lucifer.html

You are entitled to your opinion.

orisa37:
You are entitled to your opinion.

Not my opinion... Just stating a fact.. Just as I know Buhari is the president of Nigeria

Ubenedictus:



yes, what Catholics are observing now are the teaching of the apostles and the same practice is found in every ancient Christian church that can trace its linage to the apostles, all the apostolic churches (Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental) all have Marian devotion.


did you manage to read up Luke 1 which tells us that every generation must acclaim the blessedness of Mary, which is exactly what Catholics do.

Big lie , no Apostle ever called Mary mother of God or ever worshiped or pray to Mary.
Luke 1 never said we should worship Mary rather Mary was expressing her Joy for God's favour.
If that verse tells us to pray or worship Mary why are you not praying to Rebecca Isaac 's wife since she was also called mother of nations and kings?

bloodofthelamb:


Apostles of Jesus never did devotion to Mary, neither did they encourage the saints in their letters to offer devotion to Mary.

Mary was blessed through the grace of God, no body denies that. Catholics do more than calling her bless. They venerate her. They pray to her to pray for you etc.

I Agree 100%

MuttleyLaff:




There must be a reason(s) for your strong opposition to Mary and obvious dislike of her being called the mother of God.
Is it because to your understanding Jesus isnt God?





Are you sure of the emboldened that the bible never called Mary Jesus' mother?

Exaltation of Mary to "celebrity" status was not invented by the church
Exaltation of Mary to "celebrity" status, is 110% scriptural

In fact, the exaltation of Mary to "celebrity" status isnt a church invention.
The "celebrity" status originated from angel Gabriel's Day 1 visitation.
Not just that, Mary, even, with her song, in Luke 1:48, predicted the "celebrity" status

Concerning the exaltation of Mary to "godlike" status, you will have to go into detail what you mean by this
and thereafter let's see what Ubenedictus and all make of it

And it came to pass, as he spoke these things,
a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said to him,
Blessed is the womb that bore you,
and the breasts which you have sucked.
(i.e. woman, in effect, is saying to Jesus, blessed is your mother)
- Luke 11:27

Jesus would have witnessed this "celebrity" status too, so many times, all over
and that's why, for posterity sake,
one of Jesus' firsthand experiences of the exaltation of Mary to "celebrity & godlike" status is historically recorded, as read in Luke 11:27 above







blueAgent, will:
1/ Showing you, where, in the bible, Mary is called mother of Jesus
2/ and show you, with scripture again, that, if same Jesus, is God, then, Mary is mother of God, appease you?

Jesus is not the Same person as the Father.
God is the Father while Jesus is his son, Jesus is God by nature(as being born by God) and not in personality.
Jesus and his Father are not equal neither are they the same person.
Jesus always did the will of his Father.


John 14:28
“You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going
away and coming back to you.’ If you loved
Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am
going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater
than I.”

UbiPetrus:

"And why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" Luke 1:43.

This, my friend, nullifies your unsolicited for epistle.

Your point contracdicts your argument the bible verse says mother of my Lord even David is called Lord, so the word Lord cannot be translated to mean God.

blueAgent:


Your point contracdicts your argument the bible verse says mother of my Lord even David is called Lord, so the word Lord cannot be translated to mean God.

My point only contradicts your understanding of the flow of conversation.

sonmvayina:


And the truth is that Mary is lucifer., the light bearer.. Since jesus is the light...
Ask your parish priest.. Tomorrow after Mass,
I know, because I am a legionary... Took my vows in 1997,
Health of the sick: pray for us
Morning star: pray for us.. Etc

This one requires eccles 12:12

Aizenosa:


This one requires eccles 12:12

What does the passage say? I don't have a Bible handy and I don't have space for such things..

bloodofthelamb:


Why are you not refering David as the Father of God just as the Op pointed out? Since, Jesus is also the Seed of David.

Who said Jesus is not at times referred to as the son of David?

With respect to this issue, the catholic have it more right than other denominations within Christianity.

But in actuality, Mary is not the mother of God. She is a representation of the Mother - God in the Christian system.

UbiPetrus:
My point only contradicts your understanding of the flow of conversation.

This meaningless.

LoJ:
With respect to this issue, the catholic have it more right than other denominations within Christianity.

But in actuality, Mary is not the mother of God. She is a representation of the Mother - God in the Christian system.

What rights?

What a display of ignorance by the OP and his band of Catholic bashers. I love the church because it is the source and pillar of truth. See how the Catholics have responded with scriptural and traditional (based on the apostles) evidence on this topic rather they have kept lying to themselves that Mary is not the mother of God. Let me lay the facts again for you all so you can read again but no Catholic here can make you understand. Only the holy spirit can....especial those of you who claim to be altar servers and born in catholic home.

1. The term Mother of God "Theotokos" as ascribed to Mary is a title. It doesn't mean she is the Mother of the Godhead which is the Father, son and holy spirit.
2. Jesus Christ from the moment of his incarnation(immediately Mary said those words to Angel Gabriel "I am the handmaid of the Lord let it be unto me according to your word", is both man and God the son. That is why none of you can answer to Ubens question that at what point did the God part join the man part that Mary bore
3. St Elizabeth was the first to use this title to describe Mary when she said mother of my Lord. Note the L in Capital...she was at the time carrying John the Baptist so was filled with the Holy spirit when she made this pronunciation. What is filling you guys to come here and dispute that? Definitely not the same Holy spirit.
4. The early church has been through this debacle. There were those who argue for "Christotokos" which means mother of Christ, and these are the Nestorians. We all know how Nestorianism ended....it is a false teaching that the early church fathers dealt with.
5. This is the way the Trinity works. God the father is God, God the son is God, God the holy spirit is God. They are not three Gods but one God because they coexist in perfect harmony. So if Mary is the Mother of God the Son, how does the title Mother of God not fit since God the son is God.
6. Whatever version of Christianity you practise it is folly to keep bashing the Catholic Church. This is because one way or the other there is an element of Catholicism you practise. It is not called the Mother church for nothing. That bible you r quick to brandish was given to you by the church. The church is guided by the holy spirit and all you lot have is the bible, which is a dangerous tool in the hands of someone who lacks the wisdom to correctly interprete its contents. Those books didnt just band themselves together over the centuries, people actually sat down under the guidance of the Holy spirit to piece those books together. You guys do not even know the validity of the version you are carrying now because the original texts were in different languages and before the reformation they were all in Latin. How sure are you the reformers translated every word accurately as the original Latin text they copied from (I'm not talking of the original texts of the books which would have been in Greek or aramaic). Yet if the church comes up with a doctrine you all are quick to argue brandishing your bibles as only evidence.

Mary is the Mother of God. That you dont like the sound of it means a different spirit from the spirit of God who chose her to birth the Redeemer is driving you. Be wary of whatever anti Catholic write ups you see online and don't jump to start bashing Catholics. Even Christ said it that the enemy will plant weeds amongst the good seeds. Pray for the Holy spirit to guide you to properly discern the truth. You do not have to be Catholic or agree with the pope. Your salvation is in your hands. You are not going to save any Catholic by dispelling lies and blaspheming against the Mother of God....how dare you call Mary a vessel. Even me never call my mama vessel. Is that what we want to reduce our Mothers to now.

Worship the Lord in spirit and truth and stop this hypocrisy!

blueAgent:



What rights?

Perhaps my command of English is wanting, but what I mean is that the catholics are more correct on the issue of Mary than other Christian denominations.

LoJ:

Perhaps my command of English is wanting, but what I mean is that the catholics are more correct on the issue of Mary than other Christian denominations.

Thats totally false, Their view on Mary is totally unscriptural.

blueAgent:


Thats totally false, Their view on Mary is totally unscriptural.

You are not in a good position to know better than the catholics about scriptures.

They are the ones that compiled what you call the scriptures.

freeradical:
What a display of ignorance by the OP and his band of Catholic bashers. I love the church because it is the source and pillar of truth. See how the Catholics have responded with scriptural and traditional (based on the apostles) evidence on this topic rather they have kept lying to themselves that Mary is not the mother of God. Let me lay the facts again for you all so you can read again but no Catholic here can make you understand. Only the holy spirit can....especial those of you who claim to be altar servers and born in catholic home.

1. The term Mother of God "Theotokos" as ascribed to Mary is a title. It doesn't mean she is the Mother of the Godhead which is the Father, son and holy spirit.
2. Jesus Christ from the moment of his incarnation(immediately Mary said those words to Angel Gabriel "I am the handmaid of the Lord let it be unto me according to your word", is both man and God the son. That is why none of you can answer to Ubens question that at what point did the God part join the man part that Mary bore
3. St Elizabeth was the first to use this title to describe Mary when she said mother of my Lord. Note the L in Capital...she was at the time carrying John the Baptist so was filled with the Holy spirit when she made this pronunciation. What is filling you guys to come here and dispute that? Definitely not the same Holy spirit.
4. The early church has been through this debacle. There were those who argue for "Christotokos" which means mother of Christ, and these are the Nestorians. We all know how Nestorianism ended....it is a false teaching that the early church fathers dealt with.
5. This is the way the Trinity works. God the father is God, God the son is God, God the holy spirit is God. They are not three Gods but one God because they coexist in perfect harmony. So if Mary is the Mother of God the Son, how does the title Mother of God not fit since God the son is God.
6. Whatever version of Christianity you practise it is folly to keep bashing the Catholic Church. This is because one way or the other there is an element of Catholicism you practise. It is not called the Mother church for nothing. That bible you r quick to brandish was given to you by the church. The church is guided by the holy spirit and all you lot have is the bible, which is a dangerous tool in the hands of someone who lacks the wisdom to correctly interprete its contents. Those books didnt just band themselves together over the centuries, people actually sat down under the guidance of the Holy spirit to piece those books together. You guys do not even know the validity of the version you are carrying now because the original texts were in different languages and before the reformation they were all in Latin. How sure are you the reformers translated every word accurately as the original Latin text they copied from (I'm not talking of the original texts of the books which would have been in Greek or aramaic). Yet if the church comes up with a doctrine you all are quick to argue brandishing your bibles as only evidence.

Mary is the Mother of God. That you dont like the sound of it means a different spirit from the spirit of God who chose her to birth the Redeemer is driving you. Be wary of whatever anti Catholic write ups you see online and don't jump to start bashing Catholics. Even Christ said it that the enemy will plant weeds amongst the good seeds. Pray for the Holy spirit to guide you to properly discern the truth. You do not have to be Catholic or agree with the pope. Your salvation is in your hands. You are not going to save any Catholic by dispelling lies and blaspheming against the Mother of God....how dare you call Mary a vessel. Even me never call my mama vessel. Is that what we want to reduce our Mothers to now.

Worship the Lord in spirit and truth and stop this hypocrisy!

Keep decieving yourself. can you prove any of your points from the Bible?

blueAgent:
Jesus is not the Same person as the Father.

1/ Will showing you, where, in the bible, Mary is called mother of Jesus appease you?
2/ Will showing you, with scripture again, that, if same Jesus, is God, then, Mary is mother of God, appease you?

Why are you finding it difficult to answer back to the two above earlier questions
Reply to those two questions and get a reality check

blueAgent:
God is the Father while Jesus is his son, Jesus is God by nature (as being born by God) and not in personality.

God is the Father while Jesus is his Son,
Jesus is God by nature (as being begotten by God) and is God, in personality too
Evidences are there, in the bible, that Jesus is God in personality too

blueAgent:
Jesus and his Father are not equal neither are they the same person.
Jesus always did the will of his Father.

Jesus and his Father are not equal yet they are the same person.
Jesus always did the will of his Father

PMB and ordinary Buhari, are not equal, yet they are the same person
Buhari always does the will of PMB
PMB can do everything ordinary Buhari can do, but ordinary Buhari cant do everything PMB can do
I hope you get the gist

blueAgent:
John 14:28
“You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’
If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said,
‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.”

Do you, at all, really understand this verse you have quoted?
You should take a look at Isaiah 55:11 to get some understanding

https://www.nairaland.com/2347973/catholic-church-celebrates-solemnity-most

This will help you Op and allies

UbiPetrus:
This goes on to show how very little you understand the Gospels, that is, if there is any understanding at all.

Again,
And why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" Luke 1:43.

The one who was born of the virgin was the only begotten son of the father.
He was true God and true man.
There never was a time he stopped being God. Not even at the moment of the incarnation.

He was called "IMMANUEL" - "GOD WITH US" even before the incarnation.

Trust me you need a level of wisdom and understanding to conceive this concept because it transcends beyond logical reasoning.
John 1:30- this is he of whom I said "After me comes a man who is preferred before me, for he was before me"
If you can understand this statement you will get the point in my last message. John said after me comes a man, who actually was before me. Logically this is wrong english because how will he be after him and still before him? Now you see why I said his spirit and soul eternal but his flesh mortal,and man comprises of Spirit,Soul and Body.
John 1:45- we found him of whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote- Jesus of Nazareth- the son of Joseph.
Now Jesus was referred as the son of Joseph, then why isn't Joseph also seen as the Father of God? Since the Bible declared Jesus as his son.

Jesus birth ddnt obey biology rules, thus it is wrong statement to call Mary the mother of God. The reality is that Jesus has been expressed thousands of times even in the Old Testament from the beginning. No woman can conceive without obeying the laws of biology, even with the power of God Sarah conceived but not without Abraham bcus that's a principle. Mary Conceived Jesus by the word of God, she was only a vessel and in no way a mother of God.

Before you react to this using your logical reasoning explain how someone will come after someone and still be before someone. (John 1:30) break it down then we can start talking from there, if u can't do that, then don't bother replying.
Finally even this my explanation will never be comprehendable to him who has not transcended beyond logical reason.
Stay blessed.

donpy:


Trust me you need a level of wisdom and understanding to conceive this concept because it transcends beyond logical reasoning.
John 1:30- this is he of whom I said "After me comes a man who is preferred before me, for he was before me"
If you can understand this statement you will get the point in my last message. John said after me comes a man, who actually was before me. Logically this is wrong english because how will he be after him and still before him? Now you see why I said his spirit and soul eternal but his flesh mortal,and man comprises of Spirit,Soul and Body.
John 1:45- we found him of whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote- Jesus of Nazareth- the son of Joseph.
Now Jesus was referred as the son of Joseph, then why isn't Joseph also seen as the Father of God? Since the Bible declared Jesus as his son.

Jesus birth ddnt obey biology rules, thus it is wrong statement to call Mary the mother of God. The reality is that Jesus has been expressed thousands of times even in the Old Testament from the beginning. No woman can conceive without obeying the laws of biology, even with the power of God Sarah conceived but not without Abraham bcus that's a principle. Mary Conceived Jesus by the word of God, she was only a vessel and in no way a mother of God.

Before you react to this using your logical reasoning explain how someone will come after someone and still be before someone. (John 1:30) break it down then we can start talking from there, if u can't do that, then don't bother replying.
Finally even this my explanation will never be comprehendable to him who has not transcended beyond logical reason.
Stay blessed.

You keep trying so hard to deny Mary's motherhood, yet Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit confessed Mary as the mother of her Lord(Jesus), contrary to your opinion.
"And why is this granted to me, that the MOTHER of my LORD should come to me?" Luke 1:43.
She did not say "Why is this granted to me, that the VESSEL of my LORD should come to me."


Do you not see what your CERTAIN LEVEL OF WISDOM AND UNDERSTANDING has done to you?

Whether Jesus' conception and birth obeyed any biological rule is inconsequential.
Mary conceived and gave birth to Jesus and that makes her His mother.
"Behold, the virgin shall conceive and give birth to a son" Isaiah 7:14.

Even the Holy man, Simeon, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, disagrees with you. Hear him:
"Simeon blessed them and said to MARY, his(Jesus') MOTHER: "This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against..." Luke 2:34.

Let out the bitterness in your heart, brother, and allow the Holy Spirit lead you into all truth.

Pax vobiscum.

blueAgent:


This meaningless.

It is indeed meaningless to the one without understanding.

UbiPetrus:
You keep trying so hard to deny Mary's motherhood, yet Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit confessed Mary as the mother of her Lord(Jesus), contrary to your opinion.
"And why is this granted to me, that the MOTHER of my LORD should come to me?" Luke 1:43.
She did not say "Why is this granted to me, that the VESSEL of my LORD should come to me."



Do you not see what your CERTAIN LEVEL OF WISDOM AND UNDERSTANDING has done to you?

Whether Jesus' conception and birth obeyed any biological rule is inconsequential.
Mary conceived and gave birth to Jesus and that makes her His mother.
"Behold, the virgin shall conceive and give birth to a son" Isaiah 7:14.

Even the Holy man, Simeon, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, disagrees with you. Hear him:
"Simeon blessed them and said to MARY, his(Jesus') MOTHER: "This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against..." Luke 2:34.

Let out the bitterness in your heart, brother, and allow the Holy Spirit lead you into all truth.

Pax vobiscum.

John 1:45 Jesus of Nazareth- Son of Joseph, Luke being the the son
Luke 1:43 why is it granted to me that the mother of my lord should come to me.

Wrong Logical Reasoning:
With this two verses Mary is the mother of Jesus and since Jesus is the son of God then Mary is the mother of God.

Joseph is the father of Jesus and since Jesus is the son of God then Joseph is the Father of God.

If you lay your points this way then you making a point clear and good point but simply ignorant point.

Sincerely there is no point if you cannot explain what John says in John 1:30 that "After me a man comes a man who is before me"

Being able to explain this statement will justify the level of discernment in the things of the spirit because even if you type that statement it's wrong in English or on any logical scale. "After me one will come who was before me"
(Who was means been in a state of being before him, reason logically you may never tell or be able to know that Jesus was the Lamb that was substituted for Isaac, was the mountain in the wilderness, and hundreds of situations in the old testament that he expressed himself, logical thinking will just tell u it's a ram � that appeared there, and u pick a scripture and naively explain it using ur intellect which in itself is a limiting factor.