donpy:


John 1:45 Jesus of Nazareth- Son of Joseph, Luke being the the son
Luke 1:43 why is it granted to me that the mother of my lord should come to me.

Wrong Logical Reasoning:
With this two verses Mary is the mother of Jesus and since Jesus is the son of God then Mary is the mother of God.

Joseph is the father of Jesus and since Jesus is the son of God then Joseph is the Father of God.

If you lay your points this way then you making a point clear and good point but simply ignorant point.

Sincerely there is no point if you cannot explain what John says in John 1:30 that "After me a man comes a man who is before me"

Being able to explain this statement will justify the level of discernment in the things of the spirit because even if you type that statement it's wrong in English or on any logical scale. "After me one will come who was before me"
(Who was means been in a state of being before him, reason logically you may never tell or be able to know that Jesus was the Lamb that was substituted for Isaac, was the mountain in the wilderness, and hundreds of situations in the old testament that he expressed himself, logical thinking will just tell u it's a ram � that appeared there, and u pick a scripture and naively explain it using ur intellect which in itself is a limiting factor.

Joseph indeed is the FOSTER father of Jesus and that makes him the FOSTER father of God since Jesus is God.

Sincerely, there is no point if you do not understand the hypostatic union of Christ.

What beats my imagination is that you are so irked at the fact that Mary is the mother of Jesus.

Why does this hurt you badly?

UbiPetrus:
You keep trying so hard to deny Mary's motherhood, yet Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit confessed Mary as the mother of her Lord(Jesus), contrary to your opinion.
"And why is this granted to me, that the MOTHER of my LORD should come to me?" Luke 1:43.
She did not say "Why is this granted to me, that the VESSEL of my LORD should come to me."


Do you not see what your CERTAIN LEVEL OF WISDOM AND UNDERSTANDING has done to you?

Whether Jesus' conception and birth obeyed any biological rule is inconsequential.
Mary conceived and gave birth to Jesus and that makes her His mother.
"Behold, the virgin shall conceive and give birth to a son" Isaiah 7:14.

Even the Holy man, Simeon, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, disagrees with you. Hear him:
"Simeon blessed them and said to MARY, his(Jesus') MOTHER: "This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against..." Luke 2:34.

Let out the bitterness in your heart, brother, and allow the Holy Spirit lead you into all truth.

Pax vobiscum.

Luke 11: 27-28 A woman raised her voice in the crowd and said "Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breast that nursed you"

Now it was obvious that she just saw him cast out unclean spirit and she was moved that's why instead of believing the power of God she was rather excited about the vessel that bore him. Now watch Jesus response to her was very instructive he said
"Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it".

Even logical reasoning with this statement of his response tells anyone that it's not of her who bore him but of him was, is and became flesh and dwell amongst men.

If you still don't accept that the statement Mary the mother of God is wrong then please do us a favor and explain this.

Let's use your logical reason

Mary is the mother of Jesus
Jesus is God
If Mary is the mother of Jesus then Mary is the mother of God who is Jesus who is also God.

If Mary is the mother of God
An Jesus is God and you say Mary is the mother of God then Mary is also the mother of the Holy Spirit and God the father.

My question?
Is Mary the mother of the Holy Spirit?
Is Mary the mother of God the father?
Do you believe in Trinity? If yes you believe in trinity

Then Is Mary the mother of the Trinity?
Is Mary the mother of God?

Stay blessed

UbiPetrus:
Joseph indeed is the FOSTER father of Jesus and that makes him the FOSTER father of God since Jesus is God.

Sincerely, there is no point if you do not understand the hypostatic union of Christ.

What beats my imagination is that you are so irked at the fact that Mary is the mother of Jesus.

Why does this hurt you badly?

I have not denied Mary's motherhood in any way all I have been saying is to put things in perspective and not to overrate it.
Mary is the mother of Jesus, but Jesus in himself is and has being in two natures a Divine State and a Natural State.
I think this misinterpretation came from the Greek word "Theotokos" you can read your catholic books and even when you type it on google you will see it. The word theotokos was misunderstood completely and was put in the wrong context, if you search for the meaning of theotokos it means Mother of God and that's what Mary is seen as but this is wrong interpretation. Theos means God and Tokos means Bearer. Download a Greek dictionary if you need to and search for the meaning of bearer you will see Tokus. So Mary is God-bearer, Mary is God-bearer, Mary is God's bearer and not God's mother. I had to repeat that, because this is the origin of this mistake. Mary bore in her a divinely a divine person in a pre-existing state.

Note the process she bore divinely(non-biological bcus the process of conception cannot be defined by natural terms) a divine person (otherwise known as Jesus known as God) in a pre-existing state (who was even before the foundation of the world he has been).

After all this protestant finish denying that Mary is the mother of God the next on the agenda is to deny that Jesus is not the son of God.

It's really painful what comprehension can do to people.

donpy:
Luke 11: 27-28 A woman raised her voice in the crowd and said
"Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breast that nursed you"

Now it was obvious that she just saw him cast out unclean spirit
and she was moved that's why instead of believing the power of God she was rather excited about the vessel that bore him.

Now watch Jesus response to her was very instructive he said
"Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it".

I cant believe you dont understand what transpired in that Luke 11 verses

As Jesus was saying things, a woman in the crowd, after hearing Jesus speak, raised her voice and fascinatedly said:
Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts which you have sucked.
(i.e. woman, in effect, is saying to Jesus, blessed is your mother)

Note that Jesus acknowledged what the woman said, when He responded with yea, as in, it's true, blessed is her being My mother
but then soon after and true to His special modus operandi, Jesus, immediately shifted focus away from His mother unto the woman
and remarked that blessed too, are all, who hear the word of God, just like the woman did and obey it or put it into practice.

If any hear the word of God and obey, they are positioning themselves, to be blessed, like His mother is.

donpy:
Even logical reasoning with this statement of his response tells anyone that it's not of her who bore him
but of him was, is and became flesh and dwell amongst men.

You will conceive in your womb and bear a son; and you are to call His name JESUS
- Luke 1:31

Who mothered the Son of God?

donpy:
If you still don't accept that the statement Mary the mother of God is wrong then please do us a favor and explain this.

Let's use your logical reason

Mary is the mother of Jesus
Jesus is God
If Mary is the mother of Jesus then Mary is the mother of God who is Jesus who is also God.

If Mary is the mother of God
An Jesus is God and you say Mary is the mother of God then Mary is also the mother of the Holy Spirit and God the father.

My question?
Is Mary the mother of the Holy Spirit?
Is Mary the mother of God the father?
Do you believe in Trinity? If yes you believe in trinity

Then Is Mary the mother of the Trinity?
Is Mary the mother of God?

Stay blessed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyXc8nIN77Y
Teacher: How old is your father?
Kid: He is 6 years
Teacher: What? How is this possible?
Kid: He became father only when I was born

donpy, I hope you enjoyed watching that beautiful video plus reading that teacher-kid Q&A

Now here are five simple questions, I know you easily can answer
1/ When the God, become Father, at what time?
2/ When did God, become Son, at what time?
3/ How did God, become Father?
4/ How did God, become Son?
5/ What really, is the Holy Spirit, apart from being God's?

MuttleyLaff:
I cant you dont understand what transpired in that Luke 11 verses

As Jesus was saying things, a woman in the crowd, after hearing Jesus speak, raised her voice and fascinatedly said:
Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts which you have sucked.
(i.e. woman, in effect, is saying to Jesus, blessed is your mother)

Note that Jesus acknowledged what the woman said, when He responded with yea, as in, it's true, blessed is her being My mother
but then soon after and true to His special modus operandi, Jesus, immediately shifted focus away from His mother unto the woman
and remarked that blessed too, are all, who hear the word of God, just like the woman did and obey it or put it into practice.

If any hear the word of God and obey, they are positioning themselves, to be blessed, like His mother is.

You will conceive in your womb and bear a son; and you are to call His name JESUS
- Luke 1:31

Who mothered the Son of God?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyXc8nIN77Y
Teacher: How old is your father?
Kid: He is 6 years
Teacher: What? How is this possible?
Kid: He became father only when I was born



donpy, I hope you enjoyed watching that beautiful video plus reading that teacher-kid Q&A

Now here are five simple questions, I know you easily can answer
1/ When the God, become Father, at what time?
2/ When did God, become Son, at what time?
3/ How did God, become Father?
4/ How did God, become Son?
5/ What really, is the Holy Spirit, apart from being God's?

Correction Bro: Jesus ddnt shift the focus from his mother to the woman he immediately shifted the focus from his mother to God. Luke 11:28 Jesus said More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it (NKJV), (MSG) Even more than that blessed are those you hear God's word and guard it with their lives

Seems you ddnt even read my comment for you to still asked this question.
Please read the comment I made that started with I did not deny Mary's motherhood in any way I made some very instructive points there . Thanks


The above illustration quite frankly is very naive and purely logical and only those who haven't transcended beyond logical reasoning will think these points are potent, I explained deeply and asked question on why John said "After me comes a man who is before me"
No one picked that to explain bcus ofcus it's not logical. Jesus also said your father Abraham rejoiced because he saw me, Brinf down this temple (that took 43years to build) and in 3days I'll build it back up.

Trust me bro none of this statements can be explained logically. If not that the Bible helped us to explain that of the temple and put it innbracket that (they did not know he was speaking of his resurrected body as the temple) quite frankly that could be a symposium discussion of what exactly he was speaking of by logical resealing bcus he mentioned the word temple and building back. There is no English meaning of temple or Greek or Hebrew that means a human body.




In my own view I believe the above questions are out of context of the supposed topic of discussion, in the defense of your point I must say you have steered into another topic of trinity.
"the five questions you asked shows clearly that I need to explain in full details the trinity with scriptural references for you to first know who God is, I am sure when you know who God is then you will know who he is not and why time is not a factor to be considered when talking about God.
I pray that God opens you eyes to understand who he is through this writings of understanding trinity IJN. Amen �

TRINITY
How can God be both one and three? Is the Trinity a contradiction? If Jesus is God, why do the Gospels record instances where he prayed to God?
While we cannot fully understand everything about the Trinity (or anything else), it is possible to answer questions like these and come to a solid grasp of what it means for God to be three in one(Even the Bible says we know in parts, we prophesy in parts)
One God, Three Persons

The doctrine of the Trinity means that there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons — the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Stated differently, God is one in essence[/b]and three in [b]person. These definitions express three crucial truths: (1) the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, (2) each Person is fully God, (3) there is only one God.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons. The Bible speaks of the Father as God (Philippians 1:2), Jesus as God (Titus 2:13), and the Holy Spirit as God (Acts 5:3–4). Are these just three different ways of looking at God, or simply ways of referring to three different roles that God plays? The answer must be no, because the Bible also indicates that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons.
For example, since the Father sent the Son into the world (John 3:16), he cannot be the same person as the Son. Likewise, after the Son returned to the Father (John 16:10), the Father and the Son sent the Holy Spirit into the world (John 14:26; Acts 2:33). Therefore, the Holy Spirit must be distinct from the Father and the Son.
In the baptism of Jesus, we see the Father speaking from heaven and the Spirit descending from heaven in the form of a dove as Jesus comes out of the water (Mark 1:10–11). John 1:1 affirms that Jesus is God and, at the same time, that he was “with God,” thereby indicating that Jesus is a distinct Person from God the Father (John 1:18). And in John 16:13–15, we see that although there is a close unity between the three persons, the Holy Spirit is also distinct from the Father and the Son.
The fact that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons means, in other words, that the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. Jesus is God, but he is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God, but he is not the Son or the Father. They are different Persons, not three different ways of looking at God.
The personhood of each member of the Trinity means that each Person has a distinct center of consciousness. While Jesus and the Father are both God, they are different Persons. Thus, Jesus prayed to God the Father without praying to himself. In fact, it is precisely the continuing dialogue between the Father and the son that furnishes the best evidence that they are distinct Persons with distinct centers of consciousness.
Sometimes the Personhood of the Father and Son is appreciated, but the Personhood of the Holy Spirit is neglected. Sometimes the Spirit is treated more like a “force” than a Person. But the Holy Spirit is not an “it,” but a “he” (John 14:26; 16:7–15; Acts 8:16). The fact that the Holy Spirit is a Person, not an impersonal force (like gravity), is also shown by the fact that he speaks (Hebrews 3:7), reasons (Acts 15:28), thinks and understands (1 Corinthians 2:10–11), wills (1Corinthians 12:11), feels (Ephesians 4:30), and gives personal fellowship (2Corinthians 13:14). These are all qualities of personhood.
In addition to these texts, the others we mentioned above make clear that the Personhood of the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Personhood of the Son and the Father. They are three persons, not three roles God plays.
Another serious error people have made is to think that the Father became the Son, who then became the Holy Spirit(this is exactly how you think both in the q&a quote and the video you uploaded that's why you asked when did he become the son and the spirit etc). Contrary to this, the passages we have seen imply that God always was and always will be three Persons. There was never a time when one of the Persons of the Godhead did not exist. They are all eternal.
Let me review something shocking to you now. Gen 22 God asked Abraham to go and sacrifice Isaac in one of the mountains which he specifically mentioned Mount Moriah and then you know the story a lamb appeared. I tell you assuredly, that lamb there was Jesus Christ, that was why he said your father Abraham rejoiced bcus he saw me, now what is very striking is that on the same mount Moriah where Abraham was asked to scarifice is only son, that was where God sacrificed his own son Jesus (Hebrews 13), Jesus was crucified on the same mount Moriah, Same way God even asked David to also raise an alter there in his time, this things are not coincidental, the three members of Trinity does not live or exist in time)
While the three members of the Trinity are distinct, this does not mean that any is inferior to the other. Instead, they are all identical in attributes. They are equal in power, love, mercy, justice, holiness, knowledge, and all other qualities.
Each Person is fully God. If God is three Persons, does this mean that each Person is “one third” of God? Does the Trinity mean that God is divided into three parts?
The doctrine of the Trinity does not divide God into three parts. The Bible is clear that all three Persons are each one-hundred-percent God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each fully God. For example, Colossians 2:9 says of Christ, “in him all the fullness of deity dwells in bodily form.” We should not think of God as a “pie” cut into three pieces, each piece representing a Person. This would make each Person less than fully God and thus not God at all. Rather, “the being of each Person is equal to the whole being of God”. The divine essence is not something that is divided between the three persons, but is fully in all three persons without being divided into “parts.”
Thus, the Son is not one-third of the being of God; he is all of the being of God. The Father is not one-third of the being of God; he is all of the being of God. And likewise with the Holy Spirit.
There is only one God. If each Person of the Trinity is distinct and yet fully God, then should we conclude that there is more than one God? Obviously we cannot, for Scripture is clear that there is only one God: “There is no other God besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me. Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other” (Isaiah 45:21–22; Isaiah 44:6–8; Exodus 15:11; Deuteronomy 4:35; 6:4–5; 32:39; 1 Samuel 2:2; 1 Kings 8:60).
Having seen that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, that they are each fully God, and that there is nonetheless only one God, we must conclude that all three Persons are the same God. In other words, there is one God who exists as three distinct Persons.
If there is one passage which most clearly brings all of this together, it is Matthew 28:19: “Make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.” First, notice that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinguished as distinct Persons. We baptize into the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Second, notice that each Person must be deity because they are all placed on the same level. In fact, would Jesus have us baptize in the name of a mere creature? Surely not. Therefore each of the Persons into whose name we are to be baptized must be deity. Third, notice that although the three divine Persons are distinct, we are baptized into their name (singular), not names (plural). The three Persons are distinct, yet only constitute one name. This can only be if they share one essence.

So if you say Mary is the mother of Jesus you are right. If you say Mary is the mother of God then you are wrong because There is only but one God unless you say Mary is the mother of the Trinity putting her in that state is pure heresy.

I pray God opens the eyes of every reader to revelation of who he is. IJN. Amen �

Thanks for reading

donpy, I am not going to quote your full of straw man above last post
because my last experience of doing so was getting rewarded with a ban and having my post hidden

You dont need verbose and long-winded posts,
You employed unnecessary doctrine(s), used unnecessary more words, and ending up writing a post that lacked substance

I dont want to veer into Trinity with you
but if I did, I will be asking you these questions, to get you thinking outside the box

1/ What is God in the Trinity, when God appeared to Abraham?
2/ What is God in the Trinity, when God appeared to Hagar
3/ What is God in the Trinity, when God appeared to Jacob
4/ What is God in the Trinity, when God appeared to Gideon
5/ What is God in the Trinity, when God appeared to Moses, as a burning bush

I can list you so many other similar instances, but those five should be enough, to get you thinking with/from a different perspective

I repeat, that I cant BELIEVE you dont understand what REALLY transpired in that Luke 11 verses
I am pleased you admit, accept and agree that "Jesus immediately shifted the focus from his mother to God"
Now, think about this:
1/ What was the focus from his mother to God about?
2/ What was the woman fascinated about?
(i.e. what attracted the attention and interest of the woman?)
3/ What word used, in the woman's remark and Jesus' reply, is common?
4/ In relation to whom, did the woman use the common word?
In relation to whom, did Jesus use this common word?
5/ What is one who hears the word of God and obeys it?
6/ So, what is the woman, if as she has heard the word of God, she obeys?

donpy, I repeat, I know you enjoyed watching that beautiful video plus reading that teacher-kid Q&A
♪ ♬ Mary did you know, when you kiss your little Baby you kissed the face of God?♩ ♫

Now, again, here are five simple questions, I know you easily can answer
1/ When the God, become Father, at what time?
2/ When did God, become Son, at what time?
3/ How did God, become Father?
4/ How did God, become Son?
5/ What really, is the Holy Spirit, apart from being God's?

blueAgent:


Keep decieving yourself. can you prove any of your points from the Bible?

You are just one broken record. Point out the lie in the post let me give you the scriptural backing on it.

If anyone is out here to decieve it's you cos throughout this discourse you have been totally insincere. In the end your motive will become clear for all to see.

donpy:


Correction Bro: Jesus ddnt shift the focus from his mother to the woman he immediately shifted the focus from his mother to God. Luke 11:28 Jesus said More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it (NKJV), (MSG) Even more than that blessed are those you hear God's word and guard it with their lives

Seems you ddnt even read my comment for you to still asked this question.
Please read the comment I made that started with I did not deny Mary's motherhood in any way I made some very instructive points there . Thanks


The above illustration quite frankly is very naive and purely logical and only those who haven't transcended beyond logical reasoning will think these points are potent, I explained deeply and asked question on why John said "After me comes a man who is before me"
No one picked that to explain bcus ofcus it's not logical. Jesus also said your father Abraham rejoiced because he saw me, Brinf down this temple (that took 43years to build) and in 3days I'll build it back up.

Trust me bro none of this statements can be explained logically. If not that the Bible helped us to explain that of the temple and put it innbracket that (they did not know he was speaking of his resurrected body as the temple) quite frankly that could be a symposium discussion of what exactly he was speaking of by logical resealing bcus he mentioned the word temple and building back. There is no English meaning of temple or Greek or Hebrew that means a human body.




In my own view I believe the above questions are out of context of the supposed topic of discussion, in the defense of your point I must say you have steered into another topic of trinity.
"the five questions you asked shows clearly that I need to explain in full details the trinity with scriptural references for you to first know who God is, I am sure when you know who God is then you will know who he is not and why time is not a factor to be considered when talking about God.
I pray that God opens you eyes to understand who he is through this writings of understanding trinity IJN. Amen �

TRINITY
How can God be both one and three? Is the Trinity a contradiction? If Jesus is God, why do the Gospels record instances where he prayed to God?
While we cannot fully understand everything about the Trinity (or anything else), it is possible to answer questions like these and come to a solid grasp of what it means for God to be three in one(Even the Bible says we know in parts, we prophesy in parts)
One God, Three Persons

The doctrine of the Trinity means that there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons — the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Stated differently, God is one in essence[/b]and three in [b]person. These definitions express three crucial truths: (1) the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, (2) each Person is fully God, (3) there is only one God.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons. The Bible speaks of the Father as God (Philippians 1:2), Jesus as God (Titus 2:13), and the Holy Spirit as God (Acts 5:3–4). Are these just three different ways of looking at God, or simply ways of referring to three different roles that God plays? The answer must be no, because the Bible also indicates that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons.
For example, since the Father sent the Son into the world (John 3:16), he cannot be the same person as the Son. Likewise, after the Son returned to the Father (John 16:10), the Father and the Son sent the Holy Spirit into the world (John 14:26; Acts 2:33). Therefore, the Holy Spirit must be distinct from the Father and the Son.
In the baptism of Jesus, we see the Father speaking from heaven and the Spirit descending from heaven in the form of a dove as Jesus comes out of the water (Mark 1:10–11). John 1:1 affirms that Jesus is God and, at the same time, that he was “with God,” thereby indicating that Jesus is a distinct Person from God the Father (John 1:18). And in John 16:13–15, we see that although there is a close unity between the three persons, the Holy Spirit is also distinct from the Father and the Son.
The fact that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons means, in other words, that the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. Jesus is God, but he is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God, but he is not the Son or the Father. They are different Persons, not three different ways of looking at God.
The personhood of each member of the Trinity means that each Person has a distinct center of consciousness. While Jesus and the Father are both God, they are different Persons. Thus, Jesus prayed to God the Father without praying to himself. In fact, it is precisely the continuing dialogue between the Father and the son that furnishes the best evidence that they are distinct Persons with distinct centers of consciousness.
Sometimes the Personhood of the Father and Son is appreciated, but the Personhood of the Holy Spirit is neglected. Sometimes the Spirit is treated more like a “force” than a Person. But the Holy Spirit is not an “it,” but a “he” (John 14:26; 16:7–15; Acts 8:16). The fact that the Holy Spirit is a Person, not an impersonal force (like gravity), is also shown by the fact that he speaks (Hebrews 3:7), reasons (Acts 15:28), thinks and understands (1 Corinthians 2:10–11), wills (1Corinthians 12:11), feels (Ephesians 4:30), and gives personal fellowship (2Corinthians 13:14). These are all qualities of personhood.
In addition to these texts, the others we mentioned above make clear that the Personhood of the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Personhood of the Son and the Father. They are three persons, not three roles God plays.
Another serious error people have made is to think that the Father became the Son, who then became the Holy Spirit(this is exactly how you think both in the q&a quote and the video you uploaded that's why you asked when did he become the son and the spirit etc). Contrary to this, the passages we have seen imply that God always was and always will be three Persons. There was never a time when one of the Persons of the Godhead did not exist. They are all eternal.
Let me review something shocking to you now. Gen 22 God asked Abraham to go and sacrifice Isaac in one of the mountains which he specifically mentioned Mount Moriah and then you know the story a lamb appeared. I tell you assuredly, that lamb there was Jesus Christ, that was why he said your father Abraham rejoiced bcus he saw me, now what is very striking is that on the same mount Moriah where Abraham was asked to scarifice is only son, that was where God sacrificed his own son Jesus (Hebrews 13), Jesus was crucified on the same mount Moriah, Same way God even asked David to also raise an alter there in his time, this things are not coincidental, the three members of Trinity does not live or exist in time)
While the three members of the Trinity are distinct, this does not mean that any is inferior to the other. Instead, they are all identical in attributes. They are equal in power, love, mercy, justice, holiness, knowledge, and all other qualities.
Each Person is fully God. If God is three Persons, does this mean that each Person is “one third” of God? Does the Trinity mean that God is divided into three parts?
The doctrine of the Trinity does not divide God into three parts. The Bible is clear that all three Persons are each one-hundred-percent God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each fully God. For example, Colossians 2:9 says of Christ, “in him all the fullness of deity dwells in bodily form.” We should not think of God as a “pie” cut into three pieces, each piece representing a Person. This would make each Person less than fully God and thus not God at all. Rather, “the being of each Person is equal to the whole being of God”. The divine essence is not something that is divided between the three persons, but is fully in all three persons without being divided into “parts.”
Thus, the Son is not one-third of the being of God; he is all of the being of God. The Father is not one-third of the being of God; he is all of the being of God. And likewise with the Holy Spirit.
There is only one God. If each Person of the Trinity is distinct and yet fully God, then should we conclude that there is more than one God? Obviously we cannot, for Scripture is clear that there is only one God: “There is no other God besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me. Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other” (Isaiah 45:21–22; Isaiah 44:6–8; Exodus 15:11; Deuteronomy 4:35; 6:4–5; 32:39; 1 Samuel 2:2; 1 Kings 8:60).
Having seen that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, that they are each fully God, and that there is nonetheless only one God, we must conclude that all three Persons are the same God. In other words, there is one God who exists as three distinct Persons.
If there is one passage which most clearly brings all of this together, it is Matthew 28:19: “Make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.” First, notice that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinguished as distinct Persons. We baptize into the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Second, notice that each Person must be deity because they are all placed on the same level. In fact, would Jesus have us baptize in the name of a mere creature? Surely not. Therefore each of the Persons into whose name we are to be baptized must be deity. Third, notice that although the three divine Persons are distinct, we are baptized into their name (singular), not names (plural). The three Persons are distinct, yet only constitute one name. This can only be if they share one essence.

I pray God opens the eyes of every reader to revelation of who he is. IJN. Amen �

Thanks for reading

If you can understand the more mysterious doctrine of the trinity so clearly how come you are struggling to get why Mary deserves the title Mother of God which flows from everything you just wrote up here about the nature and composition of the Godhead.


You said it yourself that Jesus Christ is God the son and thus God. Scriptures makes it clear a Virgin will bear the messiah. Scripture makes it clear that Virgin was Mary. Jesus is both true God and true man at the same time. So how can you boldly say Mary is only the Mother of the man Jesus not the God Jesus.


In your efforts to appear less logical you have ended up confusing yourself on an otherwise simple conclusion.

We all know Jesus pre existed Mary as well as all of creation. When man fell, God set a plan in motion to redeem mankind. God himself will save us and reconcile us to himself. He chose to come through a woman, Mary. Until u understand that he came as true God and true man at the same time you will keep erring on this topic. He was God from the very minute Mary said yes to the angel, that's why Elizabeth's Child leapt for joy in the womb. That's why on his birth shepherds saw Angels come down from heaven heralding his birth. He is called Immanuel, God with us. The child Mary bore was God!

UbiPetrus:
Joseph indeed is the FOSTER father of Jesus and that makes him the FOSTER father of God since Jesus is God.

Sincerely, there is no point if you do not understand the hypostatic union of Christ.

What beats my imagination is that you are so irked at the fact that Mary is the mother of Jesus.

Why does this hurt you badly?

It is the same spirit that was disturbing Saul before he became Paul. Saul was irked that people were following Jesus until his eyes were opened.

donpy:


Luke 11: 27-28 A woman raised her voice in the crowd and said "Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breast that nursed you"

Now it was obvious that she just saw him cast out unclean spirit and she was moved that's why instead of believing the power of God she was rather excited about the vessel that bore him. Now watch Jesus response to her was very instructive he said
"Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it".

Even logical reasoning with this statement of his response tells anyone that it's not of her who bore him but of him was, is and became flesh and dwell amongst men.

If you still don't accept that the statement Mary the mother of God is wrong then please do us a favor and explain this.

Let's use your logical reason

Mary is the mother of Jesus
Jesus is God
If Mary is the mother of Jesus then Mary is the mother of God who is Jesus who is also God.

If Mary is the mother of God
An Jesus is God and you say Mary is the mother of God then Mary is also the mother of the Holy Spirit and God the father.

My question?
Is Mary the mother of the Holy Spirit?
Is Mary the mother of God the father?
Do you believe in Trinity? If yes you believe in trinity

Then Is Mary the mother of the Trinity?
Is Mary the mother of God?

Stay blessed

For now, I will leave you with Muttleylaff.
Truth is I'm busy, today celebrating this blessed woman's assumption into heaven and have little time to reply your regurgitated strawman.

I ask God to bless you with His Spirit.
The Blessed Virgin Mary still is the mother of God.

MosesAlex:

It is the same spirit that was disturbing Saul before he became Paul. Saul was irked that people were following Jesus until his eyes were opened.

Indeed.

To understand the Mother of God, you must first have a firm grip on the Trinity.

Anyone who knows not the Mother of God(Mary) and the role she plays, knows not God. And until he knows God, he cannot know or understand Mary, even if he possesses the grace to perform the most amazing of miracles.
And this, is the problem with my protestant friends.

UbiPetrus:
To understand the Mother of God, you must first have a firm grip on the Trinity.

Anyone who knows not the Mother of God(Mary) and the role she plays, knows not God. And until he knows God, he cannot know or understand Mary, even if he possesses the grace to perform the most amazing of miracles.
And this, is the problem with my protestant friends.

Exactly and that's why I dropped a link about the Trinity before now for them to read and learn but I'm afraid, that
foul spirit will prevent them from learning

MuttleyLaff:
donpy, I am not going to quote your full of straw man above last post
because my last experience of doing so was getting rewarded with a ban and having my post hidden

You dont need verbose and long-winded posts,
You employed unnecessary doctrine(s), used unnecessary more words, and ending up writing a post that lacked substance

I dont want to veer into Trinity with you
but if I did, I will be asking you these questions, to get you thinking outside the box

1/ What is God in the Trinity, when God appeared to Abraham?
2/ What is God in the Trinity, when God appeared to Hagar
3/ What is God in the Trinity, when God appeared to Jacob
4/ What is God in the Trinity, when God appeared to Gideon
5/ What is God in the Trinity, when God appeared to Moses, as a burning bush

I can list you so many other similar instances, but those five should be enough, to get you thinking with/from a different perspective

I repeat, that I cant BELIEVE you dont understand what REALLY transpired in that Luke 11 verses
I am pleased you admit, accept and agree that "Jesus immediately shifted the focus from his mother to God"
Now, think about this:
1/ What was the focus from his mother to God about?
2/ What was the woman fascinated about?
(i.e. what attracted the attention and interest of the woman?)
3/ What word used, in the woman's remark and Jesus' reply, is common?
4/ In relation to whom, did the woman use the common word?
In relation to whom, did Jesus use this common word?
5/ What is one who hears the word of God and obeys it?
6/ So, what is the woman, if as she has heard the word of God, she obeys?

donpy, I repeat, I know you enjoyed watching that beautiful video plus reading that teacher-kid Q&A
♪ ♬ Mary did you know, when you kiss your little Baby you kissed the face of God?♩ ♫

Now, again, here are five simple questions, I know you easily can answer
1/ When the God, become Father, at what time?
2/ When did God, become Son, at what time?
3/ How did God, become Father?
4/ How did God, become Son?
5/ What really, is the Holy Spirit, apart from being God's?

Quite frankly I have to drop my pen here, it clearly seems that you guys are seeing this more like an arguement and who wants to win the arguement rather than an expository and once the perception of a matter is wrong then the whole conversation is baseless.

I asked a question to explain the statement of John who said "The one who comes after me is before me" the question was shyd away from and disregarded. You asked questions I answered it, you made a wrong statement that Jesus turned the attention from his mother to the woman and I even quoted two different translation of the Bible to proof that the attention was not shifted from his mother to the woman but from his mother to the word of God. You ddnt even accept it was a mistake but in your defense to win what you perceive as an arguement you veered off a bit. Then you asked 5 questions, I answered it and even gave a full class on Trinity, you ddnt answer the first questions you asked with scriptural backings, while I did, you also ddnt answer the second 5 questions which led us into Trinity, your statements and conclusions have been all about what you think of the matter. No scriptural reference(s)to proof(you quote one line that suits your perspective and sits on it)I gave a full class on Trinity, @Freeradical validated that the Trinity class was deep understanding and clear, your response to it was that it lacked substance. And now you ask another 5 questions again as a defense and if we keep going you will keep asking questions, no answers, no scriptures to back your answers that shows you just want to win bcus you think it's an arguement.

Every point I have made about what you claimed lacked substance contained nothing less than 3/5 different scriptural references.

Conclusion of the Matter
Your perspective or my view of the matter is completely useless, baseless, and chasing after the wind if it doesn't bring you closer to God or establish a relationship with you and your creator, so my question to everyone reading is If you die today, are you a candidate of heaven?
Them you will know that the conversation here, how anyone of US can type or speak good English or memorize scriptures will make no sense if you don't have a relationship with God. Serve God in spirit and in truth and makes your ways straight with him.

I'll love us to be in heaven together and then we take this matter to the one true God, the ageless one and ask for the perfect answer. Let's get the answer from him and let one of USB tell the other you see I told you but at the end of the day we are in heaven and still happy. That's should be the inner peace and joy we should seek.

God bless you, bless everyone who have read and will read, bless his word IJN.
Amen

freeradical:
If you can understand the more mysterious doctrine of the trinity so clearly how come you are struggling to get why Mary deserves the title Mother of God which flows from everything you just wrote up here about the nature and composition of the Godhead.

You said it yourself that Jesus Christ is God the son and thus God. Scriptures makes it clear a Virgin will bear the messiah.
Scripture makes it clear that Virgin was Mary. Jesus is both true God and true man at the same time. So how can you boldly say Mary is only the Mother of the man Jesus not the God Jesus.
In your efforts to appear less logical you have ended up confusing yourself on an otherwise simple conclusion.

The guy tire me sef

freeradical:
We all know Jesus pre existed Mary as well as all of creation.

It seems he thinks, we don't know that Jesus pre existed Mary.

freeradical:
When man fell, God set a plan in motion to redeem mankind.

God himself will save us and reconcile us to himself. He chose to come through a woman, Mary

God didn't have a choice.
That was the only legal means.
Besides He had to respect and abide to the:
"Let man ...."

freeradical:
Until u understand that he came as true God and true man at the same time you will keep erring on this topic. He was God from the very minute Mary said yes to the angel, that's why Elizabeth's Child leapt for joy in the womb. That's why on his birth shepherds saw Angels come down from heaven heralding his birth.
He is called Immanuel, God with us. The child Mary bore was God!

Here is the evidence that He is God:
Who else apart from God, has ever known what is in anyone's thought, as in, know what they are thinking?

donpy:
Quite frankly I have to drop my pen here, it clearly seems that you guys are seeing this more like an arguement and who wants to win the arguement rather than an expository and once the perception of a matter is wrong then the whole conversation is baseless.

I asked a question to explain the statement of John who said "The one who comes after me is before me" the question was shyd away from and disregarded. You asked questions I answered it, you made a wrong statement that Jesus turned the attention from his mother to the woman and I even quoted two different translation of the Bible to proof that the attention was not shifted from his mother to the woman but from his mother to the word of God. You ddnt even accept it was a mistake but in your defense to win what you perceive as an arguement you veered off a bit. Then you asked 5 questions, I answered it and even gave a full class on Trinity, you ddnt answer the first questions you asked with scriptural backings, while I did, you also ddnt answer the second 5 questions which led us into Trinity, your statements and conclusions have been all about what you think of the matter. No scriptural reference(s)to proof(you quote one line that suits your perspective and sits on it)I gave a full class on Trinity, @Freeradical validated that the Trinity class was deep understanding and clear, your response to it was that it lacked substance. And now you ask another 5 questions again as a defense and if we keep going you will keep asking questions, no answers, no scriptures to back your answers that shows you just want to win bcus you think it's an arguement.

Every point I have made about what you claimed lacked substance contained nothing less than 3/5 different scriptural references.

Conclusion of the Matter
Your perspective or my view of the matter is completely useless, baseless, and chasing after the wind if it doesn't bring you closer to God or establish a relationship with you and your creator, so my question to everyone reading is If you die today, are you a candidate of heaven?
Them you will know that the conversation here, how anyone of US can type or speak good English or memorize scriptures will make no sense if you don't have a relationship with God. Serve God in spirit and in truth and makes your ways straight with him.

I'll love us to be in heaven together and then we take this matter to the one true God, the ageless one and ask for the perfect answer. Let's get the answer from him and let one of USB tell the other you see I told you but at the end of the day we are in heaven and still happy. That's should be the inner peace and joy we should seek.

God bless you, bless everyone who have read and will read, bless his word IJN.
Amen

I dont do arguments donpy.

You know what's a sad and sorry sight to behold, the arrogance of a seemingly Trinity intellectual, delighting in his own ignorance

I dont do arguments because arguments has to do with exchanges of ignorance

You're tightly so fitted with blinders
that you dont know the difference between you trying your hardest best to share your ignorance here
and people sharing knowledge with you.

I am no match for your ignorances and I apologise for that

frbona:
read the passage again and comprehend like someone who has been through the fours walls of an academic institution and stop embarrassing yourself!!!

Was there a time Jesus ever was GOD?

freeradical:
You are just one broken record. Point out the lie in the post let me give you the scriptural backing on it.

If anyone is out here to decieve it's you cos throughout this discourse you have been totally insincere. In the end your motive will become clear for all to see.

Like i said before show in the bible where Mary is called Mother of God.

MuttleyLaff:
1/ Will showing you, where, in the bible, Mary is called mother of Jesus appease you?
2/ Will showing you, with scripture again, that, if same Jesus, is God, then, Mary is mother of God, appease you?

Why are you finding it difficult to answer back to the two above earlier questions
Reply to those two questions and get a reality check

God is the Father while Jesus is his Son,
Jesus is God by nature (as being begotten by God) and is God, in personality too
Evidences are there, in the bible, that Jesus is God in personality too

Jesus and his Father are not equal yet they are the same person.
Jesus always did the will of his Father

PMB and ordinary Buhari, are not equal, yet they are the same person
Buhari always does the will of PMB
PMB can do everything ordinary Buhari can do, but ordinary Buhari cant do everything PMB can do
I hope you get the gist

Do you, at all, really understand this verse you have quoted?
You should take a look at Isaiah 55:11 to get some understanding

How does this verse relate to your argument?

UbiPetrus:
For now, I will leave you with Muttleylaff.
Truth is I'm busy, today celebrating this blessed woman's assumption into heaven and have little time to reply your regurgitated strawman.

I ask God to bless you with His Spirit.
The Blessed Virgin Mary still is the mother of God.

Lol....another Blasphemy Catholics cannot quit been funny. Mary assumption to Heaven which Heaven?

UbiPetrus:
To understand the Mother of God, you must first have a firm grip on the Trinity.

Anyone who knows not the Mother of God(Mary) and the role she plays, knows not God. And until he knows God, he cannot know or understand Mary, even if he possesses the grace to perform the most amazing of miracles.
And this, is the problem with my protestant friends.

Trinty doctrine is wrong there is only God and his Son Jesus, the Holy spirit is the spirit of Christ it is in the bible i cannot remember the exact bible verse.

In revelation John was given a vision of the throne of God with Jesus sitting at the right hand of his father there was no Holyspirit or Mary sitting next.

MuttleyLaff:
The guy tire me sef

It seems he thinks, we don't know that Jesus pre existed Mary.

God didn't have a choice.
That was the only legal means.
Besides He had to respect and abide to the:
"Let man ...."

Here is the evidence that He is God:
Who else apart from God, has ever known what is in anyone's thought, as in, know what they are thinking?

The best place to hid a lie is between two truths. you Catholics are using the argument that Jesus is God to promote your Church Idolatry. the fact remains that Mary was not to be worshipped venerated or exalted to godlike satus either as mother of God or Jesus simple.

MuttleyLaff:
1/ Will showing you, where, in the bible, Mary is called mother of Jesus appease you?
2/ Will showing you, with scripture again, that, if same Jesus, is God, then, Mary is mother of God, appease you?

Why are you finding it difficult to answer back to the two above earlier questions
Reply to those two questions and get a reality check

God is the Father while Jesus is his Son,
Jesus is God by nature (as being begotten by God) and is God, in personality too
Evidences are there, in the bible, that Jesus is God in personality too

Jesus and his Father are not equal yet they are the same person.
Jesus always did the will of his Father

PMB and ordinary Buhari, are not equal, yet they are the same person
Buhari always does the will of PMB
PMB can do everything ordinary Buhari can do, but ordinary Buhari cant do everything PMB can do
I hope you get the gist

Do you, at all, really understand this verse you have quoted?
You should take a look at Isaiah 55:11 to get some understanding

Jesus is not the Father stop decieving yourself.
Jesus himself said it.

donpy:


Luke 11: 27-28 A woman raised her voice in the crowd and said "Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breast that nursed you"

Now it was obvious that she just saw him cast out unclean spirit and she was moved that's why instead of believing the power of God she was rather excited about the vessel that bore him. Now watch Jesus response to her was very instructive he said
"Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it".

Even logical reasoning with this statement of his response tells anyone that it's not of her who bore him but of him was, is and became flesh and dwell amongst men.

If you still don't accept that the statement Mary the mother of God is wrong then please do us a favor and explain this.

Let's use your logical reason

Mary is the mother of Jesus
Jesus is God
If Mary is the mother of Jesus then Mary is the mother of God who is Jesus who is also God.

If Mary is the mother of God
An Jesus is God and you say Mary is the mother of God then Mary is also the mother of the Holy Spirit and God the father.

My question?
Is Mary the mother of the Holy Spirit?
Is Mary the mother of God the father?
Do you believe in Trinity? If yes you believe in trinity

Then Is Mary the mother of the Trinity?
Is Mary the mother of God?

Stay blessed

Don't mind the naive & confused people

blueAgent:


Trinty doctrine is wrong there is only God and his Son Jesus, the Holy spirit is the spirit of Christ it is in the bible i can remeber the exact bible verse.

In revelation John was given a vision of the throne of God with Jesus sitting at the right hand of his father there was no Holyspirit or Mary sitting next.

Kai! I thought I was discussing with a Christian.

End of discussion.

UbiPetrus:
Kai! I thought I was discussing with a Christian.

End of discussion.

You can show scriptures to disprove my argument.

blueAgent:
How does this verse relate to your argument?

John 14:28
“You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’
If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said,
‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.”

The Isaiah 55:11 verse relates to the above John 14:28 verse you used, to prop up your argument that Jesus is not God, the Father.

You dont, at all, understand that John 14:28 verse you quoted
You really should take a look at Isaiah 55:11 to get some understanding of John 14:28.

blueAgent:
Jesus is not the Father stop decieving yourself.

Is it impossible for God, the Father, to be Jesus?
Hmm blueAgent?

blueAgent:
Jesus himself said it.

If you can provide where Jesus Himself explicitly said He isnt the Father
then I will donate a substantial sum of money to a charitable organisation of your choice

When I asked that, who else apart from God, has ever known what is in anyone's thought, as in, know what they are thinking
little did I know, the question would overwhelm you, even to the point of rendering you speechless & not have the balls to respond to it

MuttleyLaff:
John 14:28
“You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’
If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said,
‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.”

The Isaiah 55:11 verse relates to the above John 14:28 verse you used, to prop up your argument that Jesus is not God, the Father.

You dont, at all, understand that John 14:28 verse you quoted
You really should take a look at Isaiah 55:11 to get some understanding of John 14:28.

Is it impossible for God, the Father, to be Jesus?
Hmm blueAgent?

If you can provide where Jesus Himself explicitly said He isnt the Father
then I will donate a substantial sum of money to a charitable organisation of your choice

When I asked that, who else apart from God, has ever known what is in anyone's thought, as in, know what they are thinking
little did I know, the question would overwhelm you, even to the point of rendering you speechless & not have the balls to respond to it

There is nothing in Isaiah55:11 to back your argument

Like i said Jesus is not God the Father i have given you bible verse where Jesus said his Father is greater than him what other prove do you want?

Read on.

John 6:38 . Jesus
said: “I have come down from heaven to do,
not my will, but the will of him that sent
me.” Now, that statement would be a bit
puzzling if Jesus were God.
at Jesus told his disciples as recorded at
Matthew 28:18 . That verse says: “All
authority has been given me in heaven and
on the earth.” So did Jesus say that he always
had all authority?
No, he said that it had been
given to him.
But if Jesus is God, how could he be
given more authority? And who gave it to
him?
‘You are my Son, the beloved; I
have approved you.’”
Did you notice what Jesus was doing
as he was being baptized?
He was praying.
Yes. Of course, we might wonder, ‘If
Jesus is God, to whom was he praying?’
Why “Father” and “Son”?
Here’s something else to consider:
We’ve read that Jesus spoke of God as his
heavenly Father. And when Jesus was
baptized, a voice from heaven referred to
Jesus as His Son. In fact, Jesus specifically
called himself God’s Son. Now, if you wanted
to teach me that two people are equal, what
sort of family relationship might you use to
illustrate the point?
I might use two brothers.
Exactly​—perhaps even identical twins.
But Jesus referred to God as the Father and
to himself as the Son. So, what message do
you suppose Jesus was conveying?
Samantha: I see your point. Jesus is
describing one individual as being older and
as having more authority than the other.
Exactly. Think about this: You came
up with such a fitting illustration of equality,
that of brothers or twins. If Jesus really were
God, don’t you think that Jesus, as the Great
Teacher, would have thought of the same
comparison​—or an even clearer example of
equality?
Of course.
Karen: But, instead, he used the terms
“Father” and “Son” to describe his
relationship with God.
Samantha: You raise an interesting point.
If Jesus truly is God, wouldn’t you
expect that Jesus’ disciples would have
plainly said so?
Samantha: That seems reasonable.
Karen: Yet, nowhere in the Scriptures do we
read of their teaching that. On the contrary,
notice what one of Jesus’ early followers, the
apostle Paul, wrote. At Philippians 2:9 , he
describes what God did after Jesus’ death and
resurrection: “God exalted him [Jesus] to a
superior position and kindly gave him the
name that is above every other name.”
According to this verse, what did God do for
Jesus?
Samantha: It says that God exalted him to a
superior position.
Karen: Yes. But if Jesus were equal to God
before he died and God later exalted him to
a higher position, wouldn’t that put Jesus
above God? How could anyone be superior to
God?
He couldn’t. It’s impossible.
Karen: I agree. Based on all this evidence,
then, would you say that the Bible teaches
that Jesus is God?
No, it doesn’t seem that way.
The Bible says that he is God’s Son.
Karen: That’s right. Let me assure yo

Blue Agent since you don't believe Jesus is God, it follows that you don't believe Mary is the Mother of God.

You should have stated that earlier because the later flows from the former.

blueAgent:
There is nothing in Isaiah 55:11 to back your argument

Like i said Jesus is not God the Father i have given you bible verse where Jesus said his Father is greater than him what other prove do you want?
Read on.

John 6:38 . Jesus said:
“I have come down from heaven to do, not my will,
but the will of him that sent me.”
Now, that statement would be a bit puzzling if Jesus were God.
at Jesus told his disciples as recorded at Matthew 28:18.
That verse says: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.”

So did Jesus say that he always had all authority?
No, he said that it had been given to him.
But if Jesus is God, how could he be given more authority? And who gave it to him?
‘You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.’”

Did you notice what Jesus was doing as he was being baptized?
He was praying.
Yes. Of course, we might wonder, ‘If Jesus is God, to whom was he praying?’
Why “Father” and “Son”?

Here’s something else to consider:
We’ve read that Jesus spoke of God as his heavenly Father.
And when Jesus was baptized, a voice from heaven referred to
Jesus as His Son. In fact, Jesus specifically called himself God’s Son.
Now, if you wanted
to teach me that two people are equal, what sort of family relationship might you use to illustrate the point?
I might use two brothers.
Exactly​—perhaps even identical twins.
But Jesus referred to God as the Father and to himself as the Son.
So, what message do you suppose Jesus was conveying?

Samantha: I see your point. Jesus is
describing one individual as being older and
as having more authority than the other.
Exactly. Think about this: You came up with such a fitting illustration of equality, that of brothers or twins. If Jesus really were God, don’t you think that Jesus, as the Great Teacher, would have thought of the same
comparison​—or an even clearer example of equality?
Of course.

Karen: But, instead, he used the terms "Father” and “Son” to describe his relationship with God.

Samantha: You raise an interesting point.
If Jesus truly is God, wouldn’t you expect that Jesus’ disciples would have plainly said so?

Samantha: That seems reasonable.

Karen: Yet, nowhere in the Scriptures do we read of their teaching that. On the contrary, notice what one of Jesus’ early followers, the apostle Paul, wrote.
At Philippians 2:9 , he describes what God did after Jesus’ death and resurrection:
"God exalted him [Jesus] to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name.”
According to this verse, what did God do for Jesus?

Samantha: It says that God exalted him to a superior position.

Karen: Yes. But if Jesus were equal to God before he died and God later exalted him to a higher position, wouldn’t that put Jesus above God?
How could anyone be superior to God?
He couldn’t. It’s impossible.

Karen: I agree. Based on all this evidence,
then, would you say that the Bible teaches
that Jesus is God?
No, it doesn’t seem that way.
The Bible says that he is God’s Son.

Karen: That’s right. Let me assure you

I am grateful for the comments you posted above
but please improve on its presentation next time.
I have had to be correcting the positioning and presentation in order to be able to understand what you typed.

You would say that Isaiah 55:11 has nothing, wouldn't you.

1/ blueAgent is your word, you or not?
2/ blueAgent are you and your word, one or not?
3/ blueAgent are you greater than your word or not?
4/ blueAgent can you or can you not, exalt your word above you?
5/ blueAgent can you or not, send your word on an errand to accomplish something for you?
6/ blueAgent does your word, do things by or on its own will?

blueAgent I have more questions for you, but will pause for now for you to respond to the above six

MuttleyLaff:
I am grateful the comments you posted above
but please improve on its presentation next time.
I have had to be correcting the positioning and presentation in order to be able to understand what you typed.

You would say that Isaiah 55:11 has nothing, wouldn't you.

1/ blueAgent is your word, you or not?
2/ blueAgent are you and your word, one or not?
3/ blueAgent are you greater than your word or not?
4/ blueAgent can you or can you not, exalt your word above you?
5/ blueAgent can you or not, send your word on an errand to accomplish something for you?
6/ blueAgent does your word, do things by or on its own will?

blueAgent I have more questions for you, but will pause for now for you to respond to the above six

You are looking for excuse where there is none.
I posted a dialogue on the issue Jesus being God or not and the answer is obvious.
Jesus is the son of God and not God himself.

Isaiah55:11 In that verse God was the one speaking not Jesus stop pulling verses out context